Oct 17, 2023 County Commissioners Meeting

>> IS THAT CLEAR SPAN FROM AT BULKHEAD WALL TO BULKHEAD WALL?

>> THAT IS CORRECT, YES.

>> IT HAS TO BE 20 FEET OR GREATER [OVERLAPPING] SPAN? THANK YOU.

>> WHEN IT COMES TO FUNDING, THERE'S A COUPLE DIFFERENT OPTIONS THAT ARE AVAILABLE TO THE COUNTIES.

THE FIRST IS FORMULA FUNDING.

THIS IS THE TYPICAL AND MOST COMMON FUNDING AVAILABLE.

IT'S AN 80/20 SPLIT, 80% FEDERAL AID, 20% COVERED BY THE COUNTY.

CURRENT CAROLINE COUNTY FUNDING AVAILABLE IS 9.8 MILLION IS WHAT YOU HAVE ON THE BALANCE SHEET.

EACH ANNUAL YEAR, YOU GUYS GET $391,591.

WHATEVER ISN'T SPENT, JUST ROLLS OVER AND ACCUMULATES AND THAT'S HOW YOU'VE ACHIEVED THE BALANCE OF 9.8 MILLION.

EXEMPT FUNDS ARE THE OTHER THAT HAVE RECENTLY BECOME AVAILABLE AND THAT'S PART OF THE INFRASTRUCTURE INVESTMENT AND JOBS ACT OR IIJA FUNDS.

THEY ARE 100% FEDERALLY FUNDED PROJECTS.

THESE ARE ONLY AVAILABLE FOR LOCAL GOVERNMENTS ON OFF-SYSTEM BRIDGES AS WELL.

THAT IS APPROXIMATELY 13.2 MILLION ANNUALLY AND THAT IS A FIVE-YEAR PROGRAM.

WE'RE IN YEAR 2 RIGHT NOW.

WE'RE JUST ABOUT READY TO ISSUE THE AWARD FOR THIS YEAR SUBMISSIONS.

THEY ARE COMPETITIVELY AWARDED.

THERE'S A SHORT SUBMISSION PAPER THAT'S FIVE OR SIX QUESTIONS THAT THE COUNTY WOULD COMPLETE.

IF ANY POINT DURING THE PROCESS THE COUNTY HAS QUESTIONS, THEY ARE FREE TO REACH OUT TO OUR OFFICE AND WE CAN PROVIDE ASSISTANCE FOR THAT.

BUT IT JUST ESSENTIALLY PROVIDES A DESCRIPTION OF THE PROJECT, HOW AND WHY THAT PROJECT AND STRUCTURE IS IMPORTANT TO THE COUNTY AND THE SUBMISSION.

>> DOES THAT SAME 20 FEET SPAN [OVERLAPPING]

>> REQUIREMENT?

>> THE 100% FUNDING, LIKE I MENTIONED, THEY'RE EXTREMELY LIMITED.

IT'S COMPETITIVELY AWARDED.

SEVENTY-FIVE PERCENT OF THOSE MUST BE USED, THE FUNDS MUST BE USED ON POOR-RATED STRUCTURES.

THE OTHER 25% IS AVAILABLE FOR FAIR-RATED STRUCTURES AND THE PRIORITY IS GIVEN TO SHOVEL-READY PROJECTS.

SOMETHING THAT'S READY FOR CONSTRUCTION WOULD BE GIVEN PRIORITY OVER SOMETHING THAT'S IN FINAL DESIGN.

IF MORE FUNDING EXISTS THEN 100% FUNDING IS AVAILABLE THAT 13.2 MILLION THEN LOCAL GOVERNMENTS THAT HAVEN'T RECEIVED FUNDS IN PRIOR YEARS WOULD BE GIVEN PRIORITY.

IT'S A REVOLVING SITUATION.

WE GET SEVERAL SUBMITTALS, REVIEW THEM AND THEY'RE ALL GRADED BY VARIOUS PEOPLE IN OUR DEPARTMENT AND THEN EVERYBODY COMES TOGETHER, DISCUSSES THEM AND AWARDS THE PROJECTS.

BEGINNING A BRIDGE PROJECT, IT'S PRETTY SIMPLE ACTUALLY AND WE'VE HAD PRETTY GOOD COORDINATION WITH YOUR DEPARTMENT.

BRIAN NORTH HAS GOOD WORKING RELATIONSHIP WITH US.

ESSENTIALLY, YOU JUST DECIDE WHICH STRUCTURE YOU'D LIKE TO START.

VERIFY THAT IT'S ON YOUR SNPS.

IF IT'S NOT, JUST UPDATE IT AND SEND IT IN,

[00:20:02]

AND WE CAN JUST SIGN IT AND SEND IT BACK AND THEN WE'RE GOING TO GO ON THAT.

DECIDE IF YOU'RE GOING TO USE FEDERAL FUNDING.

YOU HAVE THE OPTION OF USING ALL COUNTY FUNDS IF THAT'S WHAT YOU PREFER.

THEN DECIDE IF YOU'RE GOING TO USE AN SHA CONSULTANT.

YOU HAVE THE OPTION TO PAY FOR THE DESIGN ON YOUR OWN AND USE YOUR OWN DESIGN CONSULTANTS.

BUT EVEN IF THAT'S THE CASE, YOU STILL WOULD SUBMIT THE MILESTONE SUBMITTALS FOR REVIEW.

ESSENTIALLY, YOU WOULD HAVE TO GO THROUGH THE SAME HOOPS.

IF YOU PAY FOR YOUR OWN CONSULTANT THAT YOU WOULD HAVE TO IF YOU USED HOURS.

IN MY PERSONAL OPINION, IT'S BETTER TO JUST USE FREE MONEY FROM FED.

VERIFY THERE'S ENOUGH FEDERAL FUNDS AVAILABLE FOR YOUR COUNTY.

IT SHOULD BE STATED THAT WE'VE NEVER TURNED TO COUNTY DOWN FOR A PROJECT.

IF YOU DON'T HAVE AVAILABLE FUNDS, THEN WE'LL FIND FUNDS.

WE CAN FIND MONEY SOMEWHERE TO MAKE THE PROJECT HAPPEN.

REACH OUT TO THE OFFICER OF STRUCTURES.

IT'S A SIMPLE EMAIL THAT YOU COULD JUST SEND TO ME OR BRIAN CAN SEND TO ME AND SAY, WE'D LIKE TO START THIS NEW PROJECT AND THEN BEGIN THE PROCESS, IT'S FEW DOCUMENTS THAT THEY WOULD FILL OUT AND SUBMIT, AND WE ASSIST AND SHEPHERD THE PROJECT ALONG THROUGH THE PROCESS.

ROLES AND RESPONSIBILITIES, WE HAVE THREE MAIN PLAYERS.

SHA, WHICH IS OUR OFFICE.

WE WOULD BE YOUR PRIMARY POINT OF CONTACT.

THE LOCAL GOVERNMENT, WHICH WOULD BE YOUR TEAM.

BRIAN NORTH AND I MERGE WITH RYAN WHITE AND THEN THE CONSULTANTS.

OUR ROLES AS SHA, WE PROVIDE OVERSIGHT REVIEW AND ASSISTANCE.

WE'RE GOING TO SECURE THE FEDERAL FUNDING FOR YOU.

WE WOULD RECEIVE THE DOCUMENTS, REVIEW THEM, MAKE SURE THAT EVERYTHING IS COPACETIC AND SUBMIT THEM ONTO FEDERAL AID AND FEDERAL HIGHWAY.

WE THEN FOLLOW THAT TO MAKE SURE THAT THAT'S KEPT ON THEIR RADAR UNTIL IT'S ISSUED.

WE ALSO APPROVED THE PROJECT FOR ADDS.

THERE ARE SEVERAL MILESTONE REVIEWS THAT I MENTIONED.

YOU WILL MAKE SUBMISSIONS. WE HAVE MADE COMMENTS AND EITHER ADDRESS THE COMMENTS ARE REASON WHY THEY WOULDN'T BE ADDRESSED AND THEN IT MOVES THROUGH THE PROCESS FOR ADD.

WE VERIFY THE FEDERAL REQUIREMENTS ARE ADDRESSED.

THAT IS THE MILESTONE REVIEWS, MBE, DBE PERCENTAGES, THINGS ALONG THOSE LINES.

WE MAKE SURE THAT EVERYTHING THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT REQUIRES TO GIVE MONEY IS MET SO THAT WE GET THE MONEY FOR YOU.

WE ALSO VERIFY THAT THE BIANNUAL INSPECTIONS ARE PERFORMED BY YOUR COUNTY AND SUBMIT EVERYTHING TO FEDERAL HIGHWAY AND KEEP TRACK OF THAT.

I MENTIONED THE STRUCTURAL MANAGEMENT PLANS AND THE REVIEWS.

AS FAR AS ASSISTANCE, WE ARE HERE FOR SUPPORT OF YOUR COUNTY.

IF THERE'S ANYTHING THAT YOU HAVE A QUESTION AS FAR AS THE STRUCTURES PROJECT OR LOCAL GOVERNMENT PROJECT THEN WE ARE SIMPLE EMAIL OR PHONE CALL AWAY.

WE ALSO PROVIDE SUPPORT AND ASSISTANCE WITH THE CONSULTANT AND WE PROVIDE GUIDANCE AND HELP MANAGE THE DESIGN FROM YOUR SIDE.

IF THERE'S EVER A CONCERN OR QUESTION AS FAR AS WHAT WOULD BE THE BEST APPROACH OR ANY TECHNICAL QUESTIONS, THEN WE'RE THERE FOR THAT SUPPORT AND GUIDANCE AS WELL.

PART OF THE RESPONSIBILITIES OF THE LOCAL GOVERNMENT, ASSET MANAGEMENT.

SO DEVELOP THE YEARLY STRUCTURAL MANAGEMENT PLANS.

THESE ARE DUE TO OUR OFFICE EVERY JULY.

WE DID RECEIVE YOURS IN TIMELY FASHION AND EVERYTHING LOOKS GOOD.

I DON'T BELIEVE WE HAVEN'T HAD ANY COMMENTS ON IT, SO I THINK WE'RE GOOD TO GO ON THAT ONE.

PROGRAM YOUR PROJECTS IN THE TIP AND PERFORM THE BIANNUAL INSPECTIONS.

THE BIANNUAL INSPECTIONS ARE SOMETHING THAT'S COVERED 100 PERCENT FEDERALLY FUNDED AS WELL.

AND THAT DOES NOT COME OFF THE 13.2 MILLION THAT I MENTIONED PREVIOUSLY. PROJECT MANAGEMENT.

SO YOU WOULD PREPARE THE NECESSARY DOCUMENTS AND SUBMIT THEM TO OUR OFFICE.

THEY'RE CALLED THE ADMIN PRELIMS. NOW IT'S ABOUT THREE OR FOUR SHEETS THAT YOU WOULD SUBMIT, AND WE TYPICALLY HELP A LOT WITH THAT AS WELL.

SOME GOVERNMENTS DON'T SUBMIT OR DO A LOT OF PROJECTS, SO THEY'RE NOT ALWAYS FAMILIAR WITH THE PROCESS.

SO WE DO PROVIDE A DECENT AMOUNT OF SUPPORT FOR THAT AS WELL.

MAKE DECISIONS, HOLD PUBLIC MEETINGS, AND THEN IT'S ALSO THE COUNTY'S RESPONSIBILITY TO DISTRIBUTE THE REVIEW DOCUMENTS FOR THE MILESTONE SUBMITTALS, OBTAIN THE NECESSARY PERMITS RIGHT AWAY, AND ANY DESIGN EXCEPTIONS.

FISCAL MANAGEMENT. YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR FUNDING ANYTHING THAT'S NOT PARTICIPATING, WHICH IS ESSENTIALLY SOMETHING THAT WOULDN'T MEET A FEDERAL REQUIREMENT FOR RECEIVING FEDERAL FUNDS.

I CAN EXPAND ON THAT A LITTLE BIT IF YOU'D LIKE.

[INAUDIBLE] [NOISE] IT'S LONG-WINDED.

>> YEAH. [LAUGHTER]

>> ALSO RECOMMEND APPROVAL FOR CONSULTANT AND DESIGN SERVICES AND INVOICES.

SO EACH MONTH THE CONSULTANT WHO PERFORMS THE WORK OR SUBMIT AN INVOICE TO YOU OR YOUR DEPARTMENT, YOU MIGHT REVIEW IT AND NOT UNDERSTAND WHAT ALL THEY'VE DONE OR IF IT'S MATCHING WITH WHAT THEY'VE BUILD FOR.

SO THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE DO PROVIDE ASSISTANCE WITH AS WELL.

>> THE CONSULTANT, THEIR RESPONSIBILITIES,

[00:25:01]

COORDINATE WITH YOUR TEAM AND OURS FOR THE PROJECT SCOPE.

SO WHEN WE BRING A CONSULTANT ON BOARD, WE WOULD DISCUSS THE PROJECT WITH YOUR TEAM AND THEN WE WOULD REACH OUT TO A CONSULTANT, BRING THEM IN THE LOOP.

AND THEN WE WOULD HAVE A MEETING IN PERSON OR TEAMS AND WE WILL GO OVER THE PROJECT.

SO WE ARE INTIMATELY INVOLVED WITH YOUR PROJECT FROM DAY ONE ALL THE WAY UP THROUGH COMPLETE THE CONSTRUCTION, [NOISE] WE'RE THERE ALL THE TIME FOR SUPPORT AND GUIDANCE AND ANY QUESTIONS OR ANYTHING YOU MAY NEED.

CONSULTANT PREPARES DESIGN, AND THEY NEED TO GET THE LOCAL GOVERNMENTS APPROVAL FOR ALL INVOICED WORK, PERFORM ALL THE AUTHORIZED WORK AS DISCUSSED IN THE SCOPE, MEET THE SCHEDULES THAT ARE SET BY THE COUNTY.

THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE ALSO ASSIST WITH THE COUNTY TO PROVIDE REASONABLE SCHEDULE.

COMMUNICATION WITH THE COUNTY NSHA AND REACH OUT TO OUR OFFICE AND YOURS IF THERE'S ANY CHANGE IN THE SCOPE OF WORK OR SOMETHING ELSE THAT MIGHT NEED TO BE ADDED TO THE PROJECT.

HERE'S A LIST OF CONTEXTS FOR THE LOGO.

REMEMBER EACH TEAM, I BELIEVE YOU HAVE IT IN FRONT OF YOU AS WELL.

BUT RYAN, THAT WAS MY CONTACT WITH THE SITUATION AND SO DOES BRIAN.

IF YOU GUYS HAVE ANY ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS, WE'RE HAPPY TO HELP OUT IN ANY WAY WE CAN.

>> GOOD. THANK YOU AGAIN FOR COMING IN AND GIVING US THIS PRESENTATION.

SO A LITTLE HISTORY, BASICALLY, WHAT SPURRED THIS CONVERSATION WAS I WAS APPROACHED BY CONSTITUENT REGARDING BRIDGE INTO COUNTY [INAUDIBLE] ROAD, WHICH IS ACTUALLY A CONCRETE BRIDGE AND IT IS NARROW, IT NARROWS DOWN SO IT CAN ONLY SUSTAIN ONE WAY TRAFFIC AT A TIME.

SO I ASKED FOR DIRECTOR WHITE TO GET ME ALL OF THE INFORMATION ON OUR BRIDGES AND STRUCTURES.

AND IN MY REVIEW OF THOSE FILES, I ACTUALLY FOUND THAT I THINK STRUCTURALLY THE CONSULTANT HAD DETERMINED THAT THAT PARTICULAR BRIDGE [INAUDIBLE] WAS IN BETTER SHAPE THAN FOUR OTHER BRIDGES THAT WE HAD IN THE COUNTY.

SO [LAUGHTER] I THINK WE'RE ACTUALLY THE CONSULTANT.

REPORTS HAVE INDICATED THAT WE NEED TO REPLACE FOUR STRUCTURES SMITHVILLE, LONG SWAMP, BLUE MURRAY, AND GREG.

THOSE ARE THE FOUR STRUCTURES.

NOW, WE CURRENTLY HAVE SMITHVILLE AND LONG SWAMP IN THE PROCESS FOR REPLACEMENT, APPARENTLY.

SO RYAN, CAN YOU GIVE US AN UPDATE ON WHERE WE ARE WITH THOSE TWO.

>> YOU SHOULD BE SEEING CONSTRUCTION PROBABLY IN THE SPRING FOR SMITHVILLE AND LONG SWAMP NOT FAR AFTER.

>> OKAY. SO WE HAVEN'T STARTED THE DESIGN PROCESS YET FOR BLUE MURRAY, WE HAVEN'T DONE ANYTHING WITH BLUE MURRAY OR GREG GREG.

>> HOW LONG DOES THAT PROCESS NORMALLY TAKE JUSTIN FOR AN OLD TIMBER BRIDGE LIKE THAT?

>> SO THE PROCESS TO BRING A NEW PROJECT ON TAKES A LITTLE BIT OF TIME BECAUSE THERE'S A LOT OF INVOLVEMENT WITH OUR OFFICE, THE CONSULTANT, YOUR OFFICE, AND FEDERAL AID AND FEDERAL HIGHWAY.

SO THAT TAKES A LITTLE BIT OF TIME.

AND WE'RE SAYING IT USUALLY TAKES ABOUT THREE MONTHS.

RIGHT NOW, FEDERAL HIGHWAYS ARE A LITTLE BACKED UP, SO IT'S PROBABLY CLOSER TO FOUR OR FIVE.

THAT'S TO GET THE PROJECT ONBOARD TO CONSULTANT NOTICE TO PROCEED AND START THE DESIGN.

ONCE THEY START THE DESIGN, THAT CAN TAKE ANYWHERE FROM 2-5 YEARS DEPENDING ON ISSUES WITH PERMITS, RIGHT AWAY, UTILITIES, ANYTHING ALONG THOSE LINES.

THE BLUE MURRAY ROAD TIMBER STRUCTURE, I IMAGINE THERE'S NOT A WHOLE LOT OF UTILITIES AROUND THAT.

[LAUGHTER] SO THAT'S PROBABLY SOMETHING THAT WOULD BE CLOSER TO TWO OR THREE YEARS TO GET IT FROM PROJECT INITIATION THROUGH DESIGN AND ABOUT READY TO ADVERTISEMENT.

>> THAT IS ON THE LIST THAT WE RECEIVED FROM MR. WHITE ALONG WITH SEVERAL OTHERS.

THAT WAS LISTED NUMBER 3 RIGHT AFTER SMITHVILLE IN YOUR LIST OF PRIORITY PROJECTS.

SO IF THAT'S A PROJECT THAT YOUR TEAM WOULD LIKE TO START OUT, WE'RE HAPPY TO ASSIST.

WE CAN REACH OUT TO BRIAN AND CC BRIAN AS WELL AND GET THE PROCESS STARTED ON THAT.

AND THERE'S NOTHING THAT PREVENTS YOU FROM STARTING ONLY ONE PROJECT AT A TIME.

IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO START BLUE MURRAY AND GREG AND [INAUDIBLE] THEN IT'S REALLY DEPENDENT ON THE CAPACITY OF YOUR DEPARTMENT.

>> IS [INAUDIBLE] AVAILABLE FOR FUNDING BECAUSE, I'M NOT AN ENGINEER, BUT THE CONSULTANT REPORT FOR [INAUDIBLE] INDICATED THAT IT WAS PROBABLY STRUCTURALLY OKAY.

IT NEEDED SOME REPAIRS, BUT BECAUSE OF THE TRAVEL WITH IT,

[00:30:01]

IS FUNDING AVAILABLE FOR THAT PARTICULAR PROJECT?

>> SO IT IS AN AGE STRUCTURE, I THINK. WHAT DOES THAT BRIDGE,1930S?

>> [INAUDIBLE] OVER HERE.

>> SO I BELIEVE WHAT YOUR QUESTION IS, THERE'S TWO CLASSIFICATIONS FOR CONCERNS OR ISSUES WITH THE PROJECT, AND THAT WOULD BECOME THE STRUCTURAL INTEGRITY OR THE CAPACITY TO HANDLE TRAFFIC.

SO FUNCTIONALLY OBSOLETE OR SOMETHING ALONG THOSE LINES.

I DON'T BELIEVE THAT FEDERAL AID PROVIDES ASSISTANCE FOR FUNCTIONALLY OBSOLETE STRUCTURES.

HOWEVER, IF THERE ARE CONCERNS WITH THE STRUCTURAL OR MEETING REHABILITATION, THEN THAT IS SOMETHING THAT THEY WOULD ENTERTAIN AS A PROJECT.

AND PART OF THAT REHABILITATION COULD EASILY BECOME A WIDENING OR DECK REPLACEMENT OR SIGNIFICANT PORTION REPLACEMENT OF THAT STRUCTURE.

SO THERE IS PLENTY OF MONEY AROUND, I'M BEING TOLD.

AND I THINK THAT THEY'RE VERY LIBERAL ON THE INTERPRETATION OF THE PROJECT AND SCOPE OF WORK.

>> SO UNTIL WE APPLY, NO GUARANTEES.

>> HAVE BRIAN CALL ME AND WE'LL WORK IT OUT.

>> BUT IT'S PROMISING.

[LAUGHTER]

>> I MEAN, JUSTIN'S CORRECT.

I MEAN, CONDITION TAKES PRECEDENCE OVER FUNCTIONALITY.

BUT IF THERE'S A CONDITION ASPECT TO IT, FUNCTIONALITY CAN BE ADDRESSED DURING THIS [OVERLAPPING]

>> THERE WAS A CONDITION BUT IT WASN'T AS DIRE AS SOME OF THE OTHER STRUCTURES THAT WE HAD.

>> YOU SAID IF WE NEEDED MONEY, YOU'D FIND IT. [LAUGHTER]

>> WE WILL FIND IT.

>> IT'S STILL WELL.

>> HAVE BRIAN CALL ME.

>> 1990.

>> 1919.

>> THAT'S NEW.

>> HOW ABOUT THE TWO CLOSED BRIDGES THAT WE HAVE? DID THESE STRUCTURES NEED TO BE AN OPERATION CURRENTLY OR CAN WE REVISIT SOME OF THE ABANDONED CLOSED STRUCTURES THAT WE HAVE?

>> I RECEIVED THE LIST OF EIGHT STRUCTURES.

SEVEN OF THEM WERE YOURS.

ONE IS THE DORCHESTER COUNTY.

WHEN YOU MENTIONED THE TWO THAT ARE CLOSED, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT RIVER ROAD AND POPLAR NECK I BELIEVE.

>> IF A STRUCTURE IS CLOSED, IT'S AVAILABLE TO BE REOPENED AND ENTERTAIN A PROJECT AS WELL.

THE CLOSURE OF THE STRUCTURE DOES NOT PROHIBIT IT FROM BECOMING A PROJECT.

>> AVAILABLE FOR FUNDING. CORRECT.

>> THE ONLY REAL SITUATION WHERE FEDERAL AID IN FEDERAL HIGHWAY WILL SAY NO, IS A NEW STRUCTURE CONSTRUCTION.

THAT'S NOT A REMOVE AND REPLACE, THAT'S WE'RE BUILDING THIS ROW WE WOULD LIKE TO BUILD A BRIDGE HERE.

FEDERAL HIGHWAY IS NOT GOING TO PARTAKE IN THAT.

>> GOT YOU. ONE OTHER PROJECT THAT WE HAVE IN THE WORKS THAT IS, IS IT PERMITTED, RYAN? I KNOW WE GOT THROUGH THE BOARD OF PUBLIC WORKS WAS RIVER ROAD.

IT IS A NEW BOX CULVERT, SO WE'RE REPLACING TWIN CMP OR ARE THEY RCP? DOESN'T MATTER.

BUT THEY'RE TWIN STORM DRAIN PIPES.

I THINK THERE ARE APPROXIMATELY 24 INCH DIAMETER, SOMETHING LIKE THAT, WITH A BOXCAR OVER.

IT'S RIVER ROAD, THE SAME ROAD THAT HAS A CLOSE BRIDGE.

THIS IS AN ACTUAL INTERNSHIP PORTION OF THE ROAD CLOSER TO ROUTE 404.

IT'S ACTUALLY A MAIN TRAVEL WAY TO OUR LARGEST HIGH SCHOOL.

WE ONLY HAVE TWO HIGH SCHOOLS, BUT NORTH CAROLINA HIGH IS THE LARGER OF THE TWO.

THIS IS THE MAIN ACCESS FOR THAT HIGH SCHOOL.

WE ARE ABOUT TO START CONSTRUCTION REPLACEMENT OF THOSE TWIN CULVERT PIPES WHERE THE BOX CULVERT.

I DON'T BELIEVE THAT THAT BOX CULVERT IS CLEAR SPAN 20 FEET.

I THINK IT'S A 12-FOOT,14.

IT'S JUST SHORT. THERE IS NO FEDERAL OR STATE FUNDING AVAILABLE TO ASSIST US WITH THAT?

>> [INAUDIBLE] WE'RE DOING MORE TO IT.

>> THERE'S SEA LEVEL RISE ISSUES THERE.

THERE THE ROAD FLOODS RELATIVELY FREQUENTLY, WHAT? THREE OR FOUR TIMES A YEAR, PROBABLY.

>> WHAT I CAN SAY IS THIS, THE LOCAL GOVERNMENT BRIDGE PROGRAM, I DON'T BELIEVE THERE WILL BE FUNDING AVAILABLE DUE TO THE SIZE, BUT THERE ARE OTHER PROGRAMS AND GRANTS THAT COULD BE APPLIED FOR AND RECEIVED.

I CAN REACH OUT TO FEDERAL AID AND FEDERAL HIGHWAY AND SEE WHAT KIND OF GRANTS WE MIGHT BE ABLE TO GET YOU TO APPLY FOR AND SEE IF WE CAN GET SOMETHING TO SECURE FUNDING FOR THAT.

>> [OVERLAPPING] CURRENT RESILIENCY GRANT WHICH THE ADDRESS THAT SEA LEVEL RISE ISSUES.

THAT'S SOMETHING WE CAN PROVIDE THAT INFORMATION.

FROM THE BRIDGE PROGRAM PROBABLY NOT.

>> THAT'S THROUGH DESIGN.

[00:35:05]

>> IT'S [INAUDIBLE] ADVERTISED.

>> TO THE BOARD OF PUBLIC WORKS WE JUST GOT APPROVAL LAST MONTH, I THINK, FROM THE BOARD OF PUBLIC WORKS.

>> WHEN ARE YOU LOOKING TO BEGIN CONSTRUCTION ON THAT?

>> WELL, THAT'S A TRICKY THING.

IDEALLY, IT NEEDS TO BE DONE WHEN SCHOOL WAS OUT OF SESSION BECAUSE IT'S GOING TO ADVERSELY AFFECT OUR BUS TRAFFIC AND TRAFFIC TO THE HIGH SCHOOL.

THE FAULT WAS TO DO IT IN THE SUMMER.

WE DO HAVE TIME RESTRICTIONS.

WHEN DOES THE PROJECT HAD TO BE DONE, RYAN? WHAT WERE THE RESTRICTIONS OF?

>> THE SPRING RESTRICTION IS FINE.

BUT WHEN SCHOOL IS OUT, WAS GOING TO BE DONE FOR FALL RESTRICTION, WHICH WE SHOULD BE, I THINK IT'S IN NOVEMBER [INAUDIBLE] PERMIT, BUT I'LL DOUBLE-CHECK.

>> NOW THE SPRING SPAWNING SEASON, WE HAD TO MISS THAT.

YOU MAY BE FAMILIAR.

>> RYAN, IS IT A USE ONE?

>> MARCH 15TH IS WHEN YOU'RE AVAILABLE TO START, SIR?

>> THAT SOUNDS CORRECT.

>> WELL, THAT'S GOOD.

>> I THINK IT'S THIS TIME.

>> THE ROAD IS IN BAD SHAPE THOUGH.

IT IS POTHOLED OVER TOP OF THESE CULVERT PIPES.

I THINK WE COULD GET THROUGH THIS SCHOOL YEAR WITH IT, BUT WE WOULD LIKE TO START IT NEXT YEAR, NEXT SPRING.

>> I WILL REACH OUT TO FEDERAL AID AND FEDERAL HIGHWAY AND SEE IF WE CAN GET SOME GRANTS.

>> DO YOU WANT OUR PUBLIC WORKS DEPARTMENT TO SEND OVER THE INFORMATION WE HAVE ON DALVIK DRAWINGS AND EVERYTHING.

>> THAT'LL BE GREAT.

>> DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS?

>> I DON'T. IT'S GREAT [INAUDIBLE]

>> I WAS THINKING THAT IT HAS ONE HOUSE.

IT HAS ONE HOUSE ON.

>> WELL, SOME OF IT'S ON PAY.

>> I THINK WHAT WE NEED TO DO IS HAVE PUBLIC WORKS GET US A LIST OF THE PROPERTY OWNERS AND WE PROBABLY NEED TO SEND A LETTER OUT TO RECEIVE COMMENT FROM THE PROPERTY OWNERS ON THE ROAD.

YOU THINK? I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE PROPERTY NUMBER.

HAVE YOU CLOSED THE ROAD SINCE YOU'VE BEEN COMMISSIONER?

>> NO. [LAUGHTER] I CAN'T REMEMBER.

IT'S BEEN AWHILE.

BUT THE ROAD WE'RE TALKING ABOUT IS BACK LANDING FOR WITH DORCHESTER.

THAT'S LIKE A NEVER ENDING STORY.

DORCHESTER IS RESPONSIBLE FOR REPLACING THAT BRIDGE.

>> THEY REACHED OUT TO THEM.

THEY HAVE NO INTEREST AT ALL.

>> WELL, I'M SURE THEY DON'T.

>> WHEN WE RECEIVED THE LIST WE DID LOOK INTO THAT A LITTLE BIT.

THAT'S NOT INCLUDED ON DORCHESTER AS S&P, IT IS CLOSED, SO I WOULD AGREE THAT THEY'RE NOT INTERESTED IN ENTERTAINING THAT PROJECT, BUT IS IT A JOINT OWNED STRUCTURE THAT'S HALF CAROLINE AND HALF DORCHESTER OR IS IT ALL DORCHESTER?

>> WHAT I WAS TOLD WAS THERE ARE TWO BRIDGES IN THAT NEIGHBORHOOD THAT GO FROM CAROLINE COUNTY TO DORCHESTER.

WHAT'S THE ONE WE REPLACE ON? I THINK THERE WAS AN UNWRITTEN NOBLE, WAS IT NOBLE?

>> NO. NOT NOBLE.

>> [INAUDIBLE]

>> I DON'T KNOW. I THINK THERE WAS AN UNWRITTEN AGREEMENT THAT CAROLINE WILL REPLACE ONE AND DORCHESTER WILL REPLACE THE OTHER, BUT DORCHESTER NEVER REPLACED THE ONE ON BACK LANDING.

WE COVERED OUR PORTION OF THE BLADES ROAD BRIDGE.

IT'S SAT THERE, BUT I THINK MY PRIORITY WOULD BE GETTING RIVER ROAD BACK OPEN BEFORE WE WORRIED ABOUT BACK LANDING ROAD ANYWAY.

ARE ANY OF THEM AVAILABLE 100% FUNDING THROUGH THE FEDERAL?

>> THE WAY THAT THAT WORKS IS THE COUNTY IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE 80-20 SPLIT TO GET IT THROUGH ANY PLANNING AND PRELIMINARY DESIGN.

ONCE IT'S IN FINAL DESIGN AND CONSTRUCTION, THOSE ARE THE TWO CATEGORIES THAT THE 100% FUNDING IS AVAILABLE FOR.

>> WE COULD APPLY FOR FEDERAL 100% FUNDING.

>> YOU COULD APPLY FOR 100% FEDERAL FUNDS FOR THE FINAL DESIGN AND THEN REAPPLY AGAIN FOR CONSTRUCTION.

AS LONG AS THERE IS FUNDING AVAILABLE AND THEN IT'S NOT AN ISSUE.

THERE'S NOTHING THAT PREVENTS YOU FROM APPLYING MULTIPLE TIMES FOR THE SAME STRUCTURE, BUT IT ONLY APPLIES TO FINAL DESIGN AND CONSTRUCTION.

BUT THESE ARE AVAILABLE FOR THOSE.

THEY ARE OFF SYSTEM STRUCTURES THAT MEET THE CRITERIA.

[00:40:02]

>> WE SHOULD APPLY?

>> ABSOLUTELY. [LAUGHTER]

>> YES, HIGHLY RECOMMEND.

>> IF YOU WANT TO GET THESE PROJECTS STARTED WITH PRELIMINARY DESIGN AND ENGINEERING, REACH OUT TO OUR OFFICE, WE'LL GET TO THAT FINAL DESIGN POINT AND THEN APPLY.

WE CAN HELP YOU WITH THE APPLICATIONS AS WELL.

>> I THINK YOU COVERED IT.

>> WELL, THANK YOU BOTH FOR COMING IN.

THAT WAS VERY INFORMATIVE AND IT GIVES US A BETTER IDEA OF WHAT OUR OPTIONS ARE.

WE WILL BE IN TOUCH. WE OBVIOUSLY HAVE A NEED. [LAUGHTER]

>> IF YOU NEED US GIVE US A CALL, PLEASE.

>> WE'RE ABSOLUTELY HERE TO HELP.

>> THANK YOU FOR COMING.

>> THANK YOU [INAUDIBLE].

>> HAVE A GOOD DAY.

[NOISE]

>> YOU GUYS CAN KEEP GOING.

>> OUR NEXT AGENDA ITEM IS A DISCUSSION REGARDING THE MRDC LIBRARY BUILDING IN GREENSBORO, SO IS THERE ANYONE HERE FROM THE LIBRARY?

>> YES SIR.

>> SURE. [NOISE] CERTAINLY. GOOD MORNING.

>> MORNING. I'M JONAH.

[6. Discussion of MRDC Library Building in Greensboro]

[NOISE] I'M THE ASSISTANT DIRECTOR FOR THE CAROLINE COUNTY PUBLIC LIBRARY.

I'M JOINED TODAY BY OUR BOARD PRESIDENT AND SARAH OUR BOARD SECRETARY.

DEBBIE, SENT HER REGARD UNABLE TO BE HERE TODAY TO ASK SOME MOBILITY ISSUES.

WE WERE HOPING TO GET ON THE AGENDA TODAY TO DISCUSS OUR FACILITY THAT WE HAVE IN GREENSBORO, AS YOU ALL KNOW.

OUR GREENSBORO NORTH COUNTY BRANCH AND HABITS, A FACILITY THAT IS CURRENTLY LEAST FROM MRDC, BY YOU ALL ON BEHALF OF THE LIBRARY.

THE LEASE IS SET TO EXPIRE IN 2025, SO WE'D LIKE TO START DISCUSSIONS ON POTENTIAL SOLUTIONS FOR THAT.

WHILE ALSO ADDRESSING ONGOING FACILITY ISSUES WE'VE HAD WITH THAT LOCATION SUCH AS INOPERABLE HVAC, SYSTEMS, LEAKY ROOFS OVER THE PAST DECADE, TWO DECADES.

IT'S BEEN A CONTINUAL ISSUE, SO WE'RE JUST HOPING TO PULL EVERYBODY TOGETHER AND WORK TO FIND A SOLUTION THAT WORKS FOR ALL PARTIES INVOLVED.

>> NEXT REPORT, WE HAD A COUPLE OF MEETINGS ABOUT THIS AT DMR DC FACILITY.

I THINK THE LATEST ONE WAS LAST WEEK, LAST THURSDAY.

I'M LOSING TRACK. WE MET WITH THE DIRECTOR, MR. BENZENE.

I THINK THE BEST [NOISE] THAT I CAN SAY AT THIS POINT IS AT THAT MEETING, WE TRIED TO DISCUSS THE PLAN MOVING FORWARD TO CORRECT THE PROBLEMS THAT ARE THERE.

THERE ARE PROBLEMS WITH THE ROOF AND THERE ARE PROBLEMS WITH OBVIOUSLY THE HVAC SYSTEM.

COUNTY ATTORNEY MR. COUNTY ATTORNEY BARREL ACCOMPANIED ME AND FEEL FREE ANYTIME TO CHIME IN.

BUT I THINK THE BOTTOM LINE WAS BEFORE TO ME, THERE'S NOT GOING TO BE ANY DISCUSSION OF A NEW LEASE THERE UNLESS THESE ISSUES ARE RESOLVED.

OR I'M NOT GO INTERESTED IN RENEWING THE LEASE ON A BUILDING THAT LEAKS AND WE HAVE TO CLOSE PERIODICALLY DUE TO HVAC ISSUES.

I HOPE AND I'M FAIRLY CONFIDENT THAT THEY ARE GOING TO BE ABLE TO OBTAIN FUNDS FROM SOME SOURCE TO RECTIFY THOSE PROBLEMS. I THINK THE PROBLEM IS AGREEING FOR THEM TO DETERMINE WHAT THE PROBLEM IS.

WE'VE ALWAYS BEEN UNDER THE IMPRESSION THAT THE ROOF LEAKS WHEN IT RAINS.

I THINK IT DOES BECAUSE I'VE BEEN UP THERE WHEN IT RAINS.

>> BUT I THINK THERE IS A FEELING NOW THAT SOME OF THE LEAKING PROBLEM MAY COME FROM THE CONDENSATION LINES ON THE HVAC UNITS.

THERE ARE SEVEN UNITS ON THAT ROOF.

DELEGATE GREIST HAS WORKED VERY HARD AND HAS BEEN SUCCESSFUL IN OBTAINING FUNDS TO ADDRESS THE ROOF.

THE QUESTION IS, DO YOU TEAR THAT ROOF OFF AND REPLACE IT WITH AN A-FRAME ROOF OR DO YOU TRY TO PATCH IT? DOES THE HVAC GO FIRST OR DOES, AS COMMISSIONER BREEDINGS, THAT I'M NOT AN ENGINEER WISH I WAS, I'M NOT.

THE BOTTOM LINE HERE IS I CERTAINLY HOPE

[00:45:03]

THAT THEY MOVE TO ADDRESS THE REST OF THE BUILDING, BUT THE LIBRARY HVAC UNIT HAS GOT TO BE REPLACED.

>> I THINK WE AGREED ON THAT.

I DON'T THINK THERE WAS ANY DISAGREEMENT IS JUST HOW DO WE GET THERE.

>> WHAT WE WERE ABLE TO REACH AGREEMENT ON LAST WEEK WAS THAT ANY ESTIMATES OR PROPOSALS THAT THEY RECEIVED REGARDING REPAIRS OR REPLACEMENT OF THE ROW FOR HVAC WOULD BE SHARED WITH THE COUNTY ATTORNEY.

THAT WILL GIVE US A TIMELINE, I THINK THEY ARE WORKING.

I THINK THEY'RE TRYING TO DO THE BEST THEY CAN.

BUT AT THIS POINT, THE LEASE EXPIRES IN 2025.

JUST GOT TO BE DONE BEFORE WE TALK ABOUT ANNUITIES, SO START DOING ANYTHING?

>> NO, I THINK YOU COVERED IT VERY WELL.

>> I THINK IT WAS EVENTUALLY WAS A GOOD MEETING.

WE ALL AGREE, THEY WANT THE LIBRARY THERE, THE LIBRARIES AND INTEGRAL PART OF THE COMMUNITY.

THERE IS GOING TO BE A NORTH COUNTY BRANCH LIBRARY IN GREENSBORO, WHERE IT WILL BE AFTER 2025. I HOPE IT'S THERE.

>> RIGHT.

>> BUT I THINK WE MADE SOME A LITTLE BIT OF PROGRESS.

MR. BENZENE HAS HAD SOME HEALTH PROBLEMS. WE CERTAINLY UNDERSTAND THAT.

WISH YOU WELL AND HOPE WE'RE NOT TRYING TO EXACERBATE THOSE PROBLEMS, [NOISE] BUT THIS HAS BEEN AN ONGOING THING.

>> WE CAN'T CLOSE THAT LIBRARY.

WHEN THAT LIBRARY IS SCHEDULED TO BE OPEN.

PEOPLE PLAN TO GO THERE FOR ACTIVITIES DOORS GOT TO BE OPEN.

>> YES, SIR. IT'S BEEN HAVING TO CLOSE.

>> BUT I THINK WE'RE MAKING SOME PROGRESS.

I ANTICIPATE THAT BETWEEN THE FUNDING THAT DELEGATE GRACE AND I WILL GIVE A SHOUT OUT TO HIM.

HE HAS WORKED VERY HARD ON THIS AND HAS BEEN VERY RECEPTIVE AND HELPFUL TO THEM.

IT'S A COMPLICATED PROCESS THAT SEEMS TO KEEP SHIFTING AS WE MOVE HERE.

BUT I KNOW THAT DEBBIE BENNETT HAS DONE EVERYTHING SHE CAN.

I THINK SHE CALLED IN A CONTRACTOR AND ACTUALLY HAD SOME REPAIRS DONE TO THE UNIT.

>> AS WELL, WHICH THAT BILL IS GOING TO BE PICKED UP BY THE LIBRARY.

>> YEAH. WE CALL IT OUT AGAIN AND REFRIGERATION AFTER WE WERE TOLD THAT A UNIT WAS JUST GOING TO BE INOPERABLE AND WE WERE HAVING TO CLOSE EVERY DAY.

WE CALL THEM IN, THEY GOT US BACK UP TO 50%, THAT'S THE ONLY UNIT.

WE WERE ABLE TO RE-OPEN AND WILL EAT THAT BILL. WE CALL THEM.

>> IT IS REALLY NOT MY POSITION THAT WE DO WORK ON BUILDINGS. WE DON'T KNOW.

BUT AT THAT POINT, I THINK IT'S A [OVERLAPPING] DECISION THAT WAS MADE BY THE LIBRARY ADMINISTRATOR.

I CERTAINLY SUPPORT HER ON THAT, BUT WE'RE NOT DOING THAT GOING FORWARD.

BOTTOM LINE, KEEP US IN THE LOOP, WE'LL KEEP YOU IN THE LOOP AND MAKE THESE REPAIRS AND HOPE EVERYBODY LIVES HAPPILY EVER AFTER WE HAVE A LIBRARY THERE AND EVERYBODY IS WARM AND COOL WINDOWS.

[LAUGHTER] BUT I DO APPRECIATE MRDC DIRECTOR WORKING WITH US.

I DON'T THINK THAT THIS IS A CASE WHERE THEY'RE SITTING SOMEWHERE ON A PILE OF MONEY AND THEY'RE JUST NOT [OVERLAPPING] IT'S NOT THAT AT ALL.

>> HE'S WORKING TOWARD RESOLVING THIS.

I THINK STEWART WILL STAY IN TOUCH AS WE RECEIVE INFORMATION.

I THINK THAT'S ABOUT THE BEST WE CAN DO AT THIS POINT.

>> ABSOLUTELY. AS REQUESTED, WE WILL CONTINUE TO FUNNEL COMMUNICATION AND INFORMATION FOR YOU.

THAT WAY WE CAN MAKE SURE ALL PARTIES ARE ON THE SAME PAGE AND HOPEFULLY, WE CAN FIND A SOLUTION TO THIS THAT WILL, LIKE I SAID, BENEFIT EVERYBODY.

EVERYBODY, IF NOT UNHAPPY, AT LEAST CONTENT WITH WHAT WE'VE GOT IN THERE.

>> NOBODY IS EVER COMPLETELY HAPPY.

YOU JUST TRY TO GET EVERYBODY AS HAPPY AS THEY CAN BE.

>> ARE THERE ISSUES WITH THE ROOF CURRENTLY, ARE THOSE HAVE BEEN RESOLVED, IS JUST THE HVAC? [OVERLAPPING]

>> THERE ARE ACTUALLY SOME ISSUES WITH THE ROOF.

WE'VE GOT A COUPLE OF LEAKS THAT WE'VE HAD FOR YEARS NOW AND EVERY TIME IT RAINS, WE SEEM TO POP A NEW ONE.

THERE'S HOLES IN IT THAT ARE LETTING WASPS AND STUFF AND THEN CERTAIN TIMES OF THE YEAR.

WE'VE HAD FACILITY PEOPLE COME OUT AND PATCH THESE HOLES AND STUFF LIKE THAT,

[00:50:01]

BUT THERE'S NOT A WHOLE LOT WE CAN DO WITH THE ROOF.

AS YOU KNOW, YOU'VE BEEN OUT THERE.

IT'S JUST A POORLY DESIGNED BUILDING AND POORLY DESIGNED ROOF AND IT'S PRETTY MUCH LEAKED SINCE DAY 1.

MRDC HAS TRIED TO BE ON TOP OF IT, BUT IT'S JUST A MASSIVE UNDERTAKING FOR THEM.

>> MOVING TARGET?

>> YES, SIR. [NOISE]

>> THAT'S ALL. SARAH, EMBARK, ANYTHING?

>> THANK YOU FOR YOUR SUPPORT AND THEN WORKING ON BEHALF OF THE STAFF.

DEFINITELY VERY HELPFUL TO US SO THEY HEAR.

>> WE DON'T WANT TO GO BACK TO THE BOOKMOBILE.

[LAUGHTER]

>> I WANT THANK LARRY FOR TAKING THE LEAD ON THAT LARRY ON THIS.

I KNOW YOU AND I WILL HAVE A LIBRARY SOMEWHERE.

WE'RE COMMITTED TO HAVING A LIBRARY IN NORTH COUNTY, GREENSBORO.

LIKE LARRY SAYS, MR. PORTER SAYS, WE'LL HAVE SOMEWHERE MIGHT NOT BE THERE, BUT WE'LL, WE'LL WE'LL HAVE SOMEWHERE.

>> THAT'S FANTASTIC TO HEAR. THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR SUPPORT.

>> I'M CONFIDENT THAT IT WILL BE THERE.

>> I THINK WE'LL BE ABLE TO WORK THIS OUT.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

>> THANK YOU ALL. [NOISE] I'LL ENTERTAIN A MOTION TO GO INTO LEGISLATIVE SESSION. MOVE.

>> ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE.

>> THE AYE'S HAVE IT. I WILL TURN IT OVER TO COUNTY ATTORNEY SARAH BARREL FOR OUR SECOND READING AND PUBLIC HEARING FOR LEGISLATIVE BILL 2023-003 AND 2023-004.

>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH. THIS FIRST ONE IS THE NUMBER 003.

[7. Legislative Session: Second Reading & Public Hearing]

THIS IS A LEGISLATIVE BILL CONCERNING CHAPTER 175 ZONING SETBACKS, AND A SUMMARY OF THIS BILL IS THAT IT IS AN ACT TO REPEAL AND RE-ENACT WITH AMENDMENTS TO THE TABLE OF GENERAL DESIGN REGULATIONS IN CHAPTER 175,

[• Legislative Bill 2023-003, Chapter 175—Zoning Yard Setbacks]

ATTACHMENT FOR ZONING OF THE CODE OF PUBLIC LOCAL LAWS OF CAROLINE COUNTY, MARYLAND FOR THE PURPOSE OF REVISING THE REQUIRED SIDE AND REAR YARD SETBACKS FOR VC VILLAGE CENTER, VN VILLAGE NEIGHBORHOOD, R RURAL, R1 RESIDENTIAL AND R2 RESIDENTIAL DISTRICTS, BY REPEALING AND REPLACING THE REQUIREMENTS FOR REAR-END SIDE YARD SETBACKS IN CHAPTER 175, ATTACHMENT FOR, TABLE OF GENERAL DESIGN REGULATIONS, ZONING OF THE CODE OF PUBLIC LOCAL LAWS OF CAROLINE COUNTY, MARYLAND.

WE HAD THE FIRST READING, AN INTRODUCTION OF THIS BILL ON OCTOBER THE 10TH.

NOTICE OF THE PUBLIC HEARING WAS PUBLISHED IN THE SUNDAY STAR DEMOCRAT ON OCTOBER 15TH.

TODAY WE ARE HAVING THE SECOND READING AND THE PUBLIC HEARING.

THERE WAS A NOTICE OF PUBLIC HEARING [NOISE] THAT IS AS FOLLOWS.

NOTICE IS HEREBY GIVEN THAT THE CAROLINE COUNTY COMMISSIONERS WILL HOLD A PUBLIC HEARING ON LEGISLATIVE BILL 2023-03, CHAPTER 175, ZONING SETBACKS.

THIS IS AN APP TO REPEAL AND RE-ENACT WITH AMENDMENTS TO TABLE OF GENERAL DESIGN REGULATIONS IN CHAPTER 175, ATTACHMENT FOR ZONING OF THE CODE OF PUBLIC LOCAL LAWS OF CAROLINE COUNTY, MARYLAND FOR THE PURPOSE OF REVISING THE REQUIRED SIDE AND REAR YARD SETBACKS FOR VC VILLAGE CENTERED, VN VILLAGE NEIGHBORHOOD, R RURAL, R1 RESIDENTIAL, R2 RESIDENTIAL DISTRICTS.

BY REPEALING AND REPLACING THE REQUIREMENTS FOR REAR-END SIDE YARD SETBACKS IN CHAPTER 175, ATTACHMENT FOR TABLE OF GENERAL DESIGN REGULATIONS, ZONING OF THE CODE OF.

PUBLIC LOCAL LAWS OF CAROLINE COUNTY, MARYLAND.

THE PUBLIC HEARING WILL BE HELD ON THE ABOVE ITEM ON TUESDAY, OCTOBER 17TH 2023, BEGINNING AT 09:05 A.M. IN ROOM 106 OF THE CAROLINE COUNTY COURTHOUSE LOCATED AT 109 MARKET STREET TENTS IN MARYLAND 2169.

HEARING WILL ALSO BE BROADCASTED LIVE AND CAN BE ACCESSED BY VISITING WWW.CAROLINEMD.ORG/667LIVE-MEETINGS.

TO SUBMIT, COMMENT AND WRITING EMAIL INFO@CAROLINAMD.ORG VISIT HTTP, BITLY, CCMD, TESTIMONY OR MALE 2109 MARKET STREET ROOM 123 DENTIN, MARYLAND 2169.

PERSONS WITH A DISABILITY NEEDING REASONABLE ACCOMMODATION TO SUBMIT TESTIMONY SHOULD CONTACT COUNTY COMMISSIONERS OFFICE AT 4104790660.

YOU CAN COMMENCE THE PUBLIC HEARING.

IF I DON T KNOW THAT WE HAVE RECEIVED ANY PUBLIC COMMENT ON THIS ONE.

>> [BACKGROUND] IS IT TOO LATE TO SAY?

>> NO, YOU'RE FINE.

>> YOU CAN JUST READ YOUR NAME [INAUDIBLE]. DON'T MIND.

[00:55:03]

>> HI, EVERYONE. MY NAME IS ANNAI MOLINA. HOW ARE YOU ALL TODAY?

>> GOOD MORNING.

>> I HAVE A STATEMENT HERE.

I WOULD LIKE TO READ TO YOU ALL.

I'M SPEAKING TO YOU ALL REGARDING THE PROPOSED TAX AMENDMENT CONCERNING THE SETBACKS FOR PARTICULARLY SOLAR SYSTEMS IN THE COUNTY.

ARE WE ON THAT ONE PARTICULARLY?

>> WE HAVE NOT YET. THIS ONE WAS FOR.

>> THE YARD SETBACK?

>> YES. YARD SETBACKS, CORRECT?

>> RIGHT. RIGHT.

>> SIDE AND REAR.

>> THAT WILL BE OUR, YOU WANT SOLAR? [OVERLAPPING] THAT'S THE NEXT ONE.

>> THAT'S THE NEXT ONE.

>> YOU STAY RIGHT THERE. [LAUGHTER].

>> IS THERE ANY PUBLIC COMMENT FOR THE YARD OR BUILDING SETBACKS? NO, OKAY.

WE CAN CLOSE THE PUBLIC COMMENT PERIOD FOR THE ZONING YARD SETBACKS AND MOVE ON TO LEGISLATIVE BILL 2023-004.

[• Legislative Bill #2023-004, Chapter 175—Zoning Solar Energy Systems]

[NOISE]

>> LEGISLATIVE BILL 2023-004 WAS INTRODUCED ON OCTOBER THE 10TH, 2023 WITH A FIRST READING.

NOTICE OF PUBLIC HEARING WAS PUBLISHED IN THE SUNDAY STAR DEMOCRAT OCTOBER 15TH.

A SECOND MEETING IN PUBLIC HEARING IS OCTOBER 17TH, TODAY AT 09:15.

THERE WILL BE A THIRD READING, ASSUMING IT IS APPROVED TO GO FORWARD TODAY.

THIRD READING AND DELIBERATION WITH POTENTIAL AMENDMENT AND ENACTMENT WOULD BE NOVEMBER 14TH OF 2023 WITH AN ANTICIPATED EFFECTIVE DATE OF DECEMBER 29TH, 2023.

[NOISE] THIS BILL COMES TO YOU AFTER RECOMMENDATION FROM THE PLANNING COMMISSION.

THE PLANNING COMMISSION REVIEWED THE EXISTING ORDINANCE, WHICH CONCERNS THE SITING OF SOLAR ENERGY SYSTEMS IN THIS COUNTY, AND DECIDED A COUPLE OF THINGS TO RECOMMEND TO YOU.

ONE IS THE VISUAL SCREENING SHOULD BE REQUIRED AND REVIEWED BY A LICENSED LANDSCAPE ARCHITECT THAT WILL BE SELECTED BY THE COUNTY AT THE APPLICANTS EXPENSE, AND A REQUIRED SETBACK CHANGE WOULD CHANGE FROM A MINIMUM OF 25 FEET TO AT LEAST 200 FEET FROM ALL ADJOINING PROPERTY LINES.

THIS IS FOR COMMERCIAL PROJECTS ONLY.

ALSO, THE FACT THAT WE HAVE SOME TDR PARCELS, DEVELOPMENT RIGHTS HAD BEEN TRANSFERRED OFF OF A PIECE OF PROPERTY.

THIS CHANGE WOULD ALSO PROHIBIT THE USE OF TDR PARCELS TO CITE COMMERCIAL SOLAR ARRAYS.

THE SUMMARY WILL BE IN THE NOTICE OF PUBLIC HEARING, WHICH I WILL READ RIGHT NOW.

THIS IS THE PUBLISHED NOTICE.

NOTICE IS HEREBY GIVEN THAT THE CAROLINE COUNTY COMMISSIONERS WILL HOLD A PUBLIC HEARING ON LEGISLATIVE BILL 2023-004 FOR CHAPTER 175 ZONING, SOLAR ENERGY SYSTEMS. THIS IS AN ACT TO REPEAL AND RE-ENACT WITH AMENDMENTS THE SOLAR ENERGY SYSTEMS IN SECTION 175-46 OF CHAPTER 175, ZONING OF THE CODE OF PUBLIC LOCAL LAWS OF CAROLINE COUNTY, MARYLAND FOR THE PURPOSE OF REVISING THE CITING DESIGN STANDARDS AND SETBACK REQUIREMENTS FOR COMMERCIAL SOLAR ENERGY SYSTEMS IN THE R RURAL DISTRICT, BY REPEALING AND REPLACING THE REQUIREMENTS FOR SOLAR ENERGY SYSTEMS IN SECTION 175-46 OF CHAPTER 175, ZONING OF THE CODE OF PUBLIC LOCAL LAWS OF CAROLINE COUNTY, MARYLAND.

THE PUBLIC HEARING WILL BE HELD ON THE ABOVE ITEM ON TUESDAY, OCTOBER 17TH, 2023, BEGINNING AT 09:05 A.M. IN ROOM 106 OF THE CAROLINE COUNTY COURTHOUSE LOCATED AT 109 MARKET STREET DENTIN, MARYLAND 2169, HEARING WOULD ALSO BE BROADCASTED LIVE AND CAN BE ACCESSED BY VISITING WWW.CAROLINEMD.ORG/667LIVE-MEETINGS.

TO SUBMIT COMMENT AND WRITING EMAIL INFO@CAROLINE.MD.ORG.

VISIT HTTP, BITLY, CCMDTESTIMONY OR MAIL TO 109 MARKET STREET, ROOM 123 DENTIN, MARYLAND 2169.

PERSONS WITH A DISABILITY NEEDING A REASONABLE ACCOMMODATION TO SUBMIT TESTIMONY SHOULD CONTACT COUNTY COMMISSIONERS OFFICE AT 4104790660.

[NOISE] HAVE WE RECEIVED ANY PUBLIC COMMENTS?

>> WE HAVEN'T, THE COMMISSIONERS [INAUDIBLE]?

>> I CAN READ THIS PUBLIC COMMENTS INTO THE RECORD, BUT MA'AM, WHILE YOU'RE HERE, WOULD YOU LIKE TO SPEAK FIRST BEFORE WE.

>> SURE. I WOULD APPRECIATE IT.

AWESOME. THANK YOU ALL FOR LISTENING TO ME.

MY NAME AGAIN IS ANNAI MOLINA.

I'M SPEAKING TO YOU ALL REGARDING THE PROPOSED TAX AMENDMENT CONCERNING SOLAR SYSTEMS IN THIS COUNTY.

WE ACKNOWLEDGED THAT THE COMMISSION IS WORKING TO PROTECT ITS CONSTITUENTS, THE RURAL LANDSCAPE IN THE AGRICULTURAL COMMUNITY FOR THE FUTURE.

[01:00:01]

WHILE WE DEEPLY APPRECIATE GUIDANCE FROM THE COUNTY TO BUILD THE MOST HARMONIOUS SOLAR PROJECT FOR THE COUNTY AND THE COMMUNITY, WE HAVE A CONCERN REGARDING THE SETBACK REQUIREMENT CHANGES IN THE PROPOSED TEXT AMENDMENT.

CURRENTLY, THE ORDINANCE REQUIRES SOLAR SYSTEMS TO BE LOCATED MORE THAN 200 FEET FROM RESIDENCES AND RESIDENTIALLY ZONED PARCELS.

HOWEVER, THE DRAFT TEXT AMENDMENT WOULD CHANGE THIS TO REQUIRE 200 FEET FROM ANY PARCEL BOUNDARY REGARDLESS OF THE OTHER PARCEL ZONING OR WHETHER IT CONTAINS A RESIDENCE OR NOT.

GIVEN THAT MANY PARCELS IN A COUNTY COME IN VARIOUS SHAPES AND SIZES, IMPLEMENTING THE ZTAS AS DRAFTED, WOULD HAVE A SIGNIFICANT NEGATIVE IMPACT ON THE ABILITY TO BRING CLEAN ENERGY SAVINGS TO THE CITIZENS OF CAROLINE COUNTY.

FOR INSTANCE, AT CHAPTER 10'S PROPOSED PROJECT JABAL COMMUNITY SOLAR SITE, THE EXISTING FRAMEWORK ALLOWS FOR THE PROJECT TO SERVICE APPROXIMATELY 370 HOUSEHOLDS AND SMALL BUSINESSES, DELIVERING AN AVERAGE LIFETIME SAVINGS OF ABOUT $13,000 PER HOUSEHOLD.

UNDER THE NEWS ETA, THE PROJECT HAD ONLY SERVE 250, ABOUT 100 LESS RESIDENTS.

ADDITIONALLY, THERE ARE NO PRACTICAL ADVANTAGES FROM A NEIGHBOR VIEWSHEDS STANDPOINT IMPLEMENTING THE PROPOSED ETA GUIDANCE THAT PROJECT JABAL, PARTICULARLY.

AS SHOWN IN THE DRAWING, WHICH I'M HAPPY TO SHARE THIS WITH YOU ALL, THE CLOSEST THREE RESIDENCES ALL OVER PROJECT JABAL ARE OVER 1,000 FEET AWAY.

ADDITIONALLY, THERE'S OVER 170 FEET OF JUST EXISTING VEGETATION BETWEEN THE PROJECTS AND THESE RESIDENCES.

IN ADDITION, DUE TO THE SMALL FOOTPRINT OF DELMARVA SERVICE TERRITORY IN THE COUNTY, THERE'S ALREADY A VERY LIMITED AMOUNT OF LAND THAT IS AVAILABLE FOR CITING COMMUNITY SOLAR PROJECTS.

A RESTRICTION SUCH AS THIS WOULD FURTHER CURTAIL THE ABILITY TO BRING ALL OF THE DIRECT BENEFITS OF SOLAR TO THIS COMMUNITY.

FINALLY, WHILE THE ZONING TEXT AMENDMENT CONTINUES TO ALLOW FOR SETBACK MODIFICATION AGREEMENTS, THAT LANGUAGE IS WRITTEN AT PIERCE TO LIMIT DISAGREEMENTS TO ONLY ADJACENT PARCELS WHICH ARE RESIDENTIALLY ZONED.

IF THE 200 FOOT SETBACK IS TO APPLY TO ALL ADJOINING PARCELS IN THE FINAL AMENDMENT, THE LANGUAGE IN 3B SHOULD BE CLARIFIED TO ALLOW SETBACK MODIFICATION AGREEMENTS BETWEEN ALL THE ADJOINING PARCELS.

I APPRECIATE YOU ALL TAKING THE TIME TO LISTEN TO ME, AND AGAIN, MY NAME IS ANNAI MOLINA. THANK YOU.

>> I HAVE A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS.

>> YES, ABSOLUTELY. DO.

>> IS IT ANIA?

>> ANIA, YES, SIR.

>> I MAY HAVE MISSED IT. ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT A SPECIFIC PROJECT?

>> YES, SIR. WE HAVE A PROPOSED COMMUNITY SOLAR PROJECT HERE IN CAROLINE COUNTY CALLED PROJECT DEVAL.

>> DEVAL?

>> YES, SIR. IT'S RIGHT OFF OF CLARK COUNTY HOUSE ROAD, AND I MEAN IT'S COMPLETELY COVERED IN EXISTING LANDSCAPING.

THERE IS ONE RESIDENCE THAT IS EVEN REMOTELY GOING TO BE IMPACTED AND LIKE I MENTIONED THERE OVER 1,000 FEET AWAY, WE HAVE COMMUNICATIONS WITH THEM.

WE HAVE A VERY DEDICATED COMMUNITY ENGAGEMENT TEAM THAT HAS REACHED OUT TO THE LANDOWNERS.

THEY HAVE HAD A COMMUNITY MEETING AND OVERALL, IT SEEMS LIKE A REALLY POSITIVE PROJECT.

THE NEIGHBORS SEEM TO BE EXCITED AND WE JUST WANT TO CONTINUE TO HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO BUILD THESE PROJECTS HERE, A HARMONIOUS PROJECT HERE IN CAROLINE COUNTY.

>> HOW MANY ACRES IS THIS PROPOSED PROJECT?

>> THE ACTUAL LIMIT OF DEVELOPMENT IS AROUND 15 ACRES.

OUR PROJECT IS TWO MEGAWATTS.

>> NO BATTERY STORAGE?

>> NO BATTERY STORAGE. NO, SIR.

>> HAS THIS BEEN FILED? HOW MANY HAVE YOU RECEIVED?

>> WHAT'S THE STATUS OF YOUR PROPOSAL? HAVE YOU ALREADY APPLIED TO THE PLANNING AND CODES DEPARTMENT?

>> WE HAVE GONE THROUGH OUR TECHNICAL OVERVIEW AND WE ARE IN LINE TO FILE FOR THE PCA IF WE GET OUR DISCRETIONARY PERMIT.

>> THIS IS OFF OF CLARK COUNTY ROAD?

>> CLARK COUNTY HOUSE ROAD, YES, SIR.

>> CLARK COUNTY HOUSE ROAD.

>> IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS OR WOULD CONTINUE OUR CONVERSATION AROUND THIS PROJECT OR ANY PROJECTS, I'M HAPPY TO LEAVE MY CARD THAT HAS MY EMAIL.

I'M HAPPY TO HAVE A DIALOGUE AROUND COMMUNITY SOLAR PROJECTS IN GENERAL.

>> I APPRECIATE YOU, WALTER. [OVERLAPPING]

>> [NOISE] DO YOU HAVE QUESTIONS?

>> DO YOU HAVE ANYTHING, COMMISSIONER BORIS?

>> WELL, I MEAN YOU'RE AWARE THAT THERE IS A LIMIT ON THE NUMBER OF ACRES IN THE COUNTY THAT WE ARE PERMITTING?

>> ANYTHING ELSE?

>> YES, SIR. TOTAL NUMBER, YES, SIR, I AM AWARE.

>> THANK YOU FOR COMING IN.

>> IS THERE ANY FURTHER PUBLIC COMMENT?

[01:05:01]

>> WE HAVE AN EMAIL HERE FROM AN ATTORNEY NAMED RYAN SHAW WALTER, WHICH WAS SENT AT 06:00 THIS MORNING, WHICH GOES AS FOLLOWS.

HE EXPLAINS HE HAS A CONFLICT THAT PREVENTED HIM FROM ATTENDING OUR MEETING TODAY, BUT HERE ARE HIS COMMENTS.

SOLAR ENERGY PROJECTS TYPICALLY TAKE A LONG TIME TO DEVELOP DUE TO UTILITY INTERCONNECTION STUDIES, PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION APPROVALS, AND OTHER PROCESSES THAT ARE BEYOND THE CONTROL OF THE PROJECT OWNER.

CPCN APPROVALS ISSUED BY THE PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION, SUCH AS WAY POST, SOLAR, AND CHERY WOULD PREEMPT LOCAL ZONING.

THOSE PROJECTS WOULD NOT BE AFFECTED BY THIS TEXT AMENDMENT EVEN THOUGH THEY HAVE NOT YET COMPLETED SITE PLAN REVIEW AND CONSTRUCTION PERMITTING.

SMALLER SCALE PROJECTS THAT MAY DIRECTLY SERVE CAROLINE COUNTY RESIDENTS COULD BE AFFECTED BY THE TEXT AMENDMENT.

TO PROVIDE CLARITY, PREDICTABILITY, AND FUNDAMENTAL FAIRNESS, I REQUEST THAT THE BILL BE AMENDED TO EXPRESSLY GRANT FURTHER ALL SOLAR PROJECTS FOR WHICH A SPECIAL USE EXCEPTION APPLICATION WAS SUBMITTED PRIOR TO THE DATE OF INTRODUCTION OF BILL 2023-004.

ADDITIONALLY, I RESPECTFULLY SUGGEST RECONSIDERATION OF THE SETBACK PROVISIONS OF SUB-SECTION B3, MANDATING A 200-FOOT SETBACK FROM ALL PROPERTY LINES IS INCONSISTENT WITH THE COUNTY'S PRIORITY OF MINIMIZING IMPACTS ON AGRICULTURAL LANDS.

CONDITIONS EXIST WHERE A 200-FOOT SETBACK MAY BE ENTIRELY APPROPRIATE, SUCH AS FROM A RESIDENCE ON A PARCEL THAT IS NOT PARTICIPATING IN THE SOLAR DEVELOPMENT.

ADDITIONAL SETBACKS AND SCREENING FROM PUBLIC PARKS OR SCHOOLS MAY ALSO BE APPROPRIATE.

HOWEVER, IN RURAL AREAS WHERE THE ZONING SETBACKS RANGE FROM 25 FEET ON THE SIDE TO 40 FEET ON THE FRONT, THIS CHANGE WILL SIGNIFICANTLY INCREASE THE AREA OF LAND THAT IS REMOVED FROM AGRICULTURAL PRODUCTION FOR THE SAME AMOUNT OF SOLAR DEVELOPMENT.

FOR THE SAKE OF SIMPLICITY, IF ONE ASSUMES THAT OUR DISTRICT CURRENTLY REQUIRED 40-FOOT SETBACKS ON ALL SIDES OF A SOLAR ARRAY, THE SETBACK INCREASE TO 200 FEET WOULD REQUIRE ONE ACRE OF LAND FOR EVERY 272 LINEAR FEET OF PERIMETER OF THE ARRAY.

THIS 200-FOOT SETBACK WOULD INCLUDE LANDSCAPE BUFFERS AND WOULD BE TOO NARROW TO TILL PRACTICALLY.

THEREFORE, IT WOULD BE REMOVED FROM AGRICULTURAL PRODUCTION WITHOUT PROVIDING THE TAX REVENUE BENEFIT THE COUNTY DERIVES FROM SOLAR.

IT MAKES MORE SENSE TO ENCOURAGE THE MOST EFFICIENT USE OF LAND BY REQUIRING VISUAL SCREENING RATHER THAN JUST DISTANCE IN MORE SENSITIVE AREAS AND PERMITTING LAND NOT USED FOR THE SOLAR ARRAY TO BE CONSOLIDATED IN A MANNER SO IT CAN REMAIN IN AGRICULTURAL PRODUCTION, RATHER THAN DISPERSED, I THINK HE MEANT DISBURSED, NOT DISPERSED, AROUND THE ENTIRE PERIMETER OF AN ARRAY IN A WASTED 200-FOOT WIDTH.

ADDITIONALLY, PLEASE NOTE THAT SUBSECTION 3B AUTHORIZES SETBACK MODIFICATIONS ONLY WITH RESPECT TO RESIDENTIALLY ZONED PARCELS OR FROM EXISTING RESIDENCES.

THAT LANGUAGE IS A CARRYOVER FROM THE CURRENT CODE, WHICH ONLY APPLIES TO 200-FOOT SETBACK TO THOSE TWO CIRCUMSTANCES.

IT REMAINS APPROPRIATE TO PERMIT WAIVERS IN THOSE CIRCUMSTANCES, BUT IT IS MORE LIKELY THAT SETBACK MODIFICATIONS WOULD BE AGREED UPON IN RURAL ZONING DISTRICTS WHERE ADJACENT FARM OWNERS AGREED TO REDUCED SETBACKS TO MINIMIZE IMPACT ON TILLABLE GROUND.

THANK YOU FOR YOUR CONSIDERATION.

RYAN D. SHAW WALTER.

>> BASICALLY WHAT HE'S SAYING IS YOU'RE PUTTING SOLAR THERE ANYWAY SO YOU MUST USE ALL THE LAND THAT YOU GOT AND NOT DISTRIBUTE IT IN OTHER AGRICULTURAL LANDS; IS IT? I'M TRYING TO MAKE SENSE OF THE LETTER HERE.

YOU CAN HELP ME IN THE LAWYER TERM [LAUGHTER] JUST TRANSFER OVER TO REGULAR TERMS.

>> I THINK WHAT HE'S TRYING TO SAY IS THAT BY REQUIRING A BORDER OF 200 FEET ON ALL SIDES OF A SOLAR ARRAY, THAT YOU ARE UNNECESSARILY TAKING OUT OF AGRICULTURAL PRODUCTION MORE LAND THAN YOU NEED TO, AND THAT, IN OTHER WORDS, IT'S A DRAMATIC INCREASE FROM WHAT WE HAD.

KATHLEEN, OF COURSE, SHE WAS PART OF THIS ENTIRE PROCESS AND MAY WANT TO SPEAK TO THIS AS WELL, THAT IT'S OVERKILL.

[01:10:02]

YOU'RE CREATING TOO MUCH OF A BOUNDARY BETWEEN THE SOLAR PRODUCTION FACILITY AND THE ADJOINING PROPERTY LINE.

IT'S UNNECESSARY.

IT'S OVERKILL IS WHAT HE'S SAYING AND YOU'RE GOING TO KNOCK A LOT OF OTHERWISE TILLABLE LAND OUT OF PRODUCTION.

>> WELL, I KNOW, I WAS THERE AT THE PLANNING COMMISSION MEETINGS WHERE WE DISCUSSED THIS, AND THE CONCERNS WERE, ONE, AT NIGHT DURING A FULL MOON, THE SOLAR RAY ACTUALLY DOES GIVE OFF A LOT OF SOLAR GLARE AND IT DOES GO INTO NEIGHBORING HOUSES, SECOND-FLOOR WINDOWS AT TIMES, SO THAT WAS A CONCERN.

THE OTHER CONCERNS WERE EFFECTIVELY SCREENING THE SOLAR RAYS SO THAT IT DIDN'T IMPACT THE AESTHETIC NATURE OF THE COUNTY, THE VIEW DRIVING DOWN THE ROAD, IT REALLY DOESN'T MATTER.

THE PLANNING COMMISSION LOOKED AT IT AS, WE'RE NOT ONLY PROTECTING RESIDENCES, BUT WE'RE PROTECTING MOTORIST, DRIVERS, BICYCLISTS, PEOPLE WHO WALK FROM THE FEEL OF WALKING DOWN AN INDUSTRIALIZED, BAD COUNTY ROAD THAT SURROUNDED WITH CHAIN LINK FENCE AND BARBED WIRE AND A FEW PLANTS.

THE IDEA WAS TO PROVIDE A NATURAL BUFFER OF A LARGER DISTANCE, AND I WOULD SAY THAT 200 FEET WOULD ALLOW FOR CONTINUED AGRICULTURAL PRACTICES.

[BACKGROUND] THAT'S ENOUGH ROOM.

I MEAN IF YOU SCREEN WITH 50 FEET, THAT LIVES 150 FEET DETAIL AROUND THE PERIMETER.

THERE WERE CONCERNS ABOUT WILDLIFE IMPACTS.

IF YOUR CHAIN LINK FENCE IS TOO CLOSE TO THE EDGE OF THE TRAVELWAY AND A DEAR GOT CAUGHT IN-BETWEEN IN THAT TRAVEL DISTANCE AND COULDN'T GET OUT BECAUSE A CHAIN LINK FENCE ON BOTH SIDES OF THE ROAD.

THOSE WERE ALL IMPACTS THAT THE PLANNING COMMISSION TOOK INTO CONSIDERATION WHEN WE MADE THE 200-FOOT RECOMMENDATION.

BUT KATHLEEN, DID YOU HAVE?

>> ONE THOUGHT THAT I HAD WAS REGARDING THE SETBACK MODIFICATIONS AND THE EXISTING ORDINANCE DOES SAY RESIDENTIALLY ZONED PARCELS OR EXISTING RESIDENCES.

MR. SHOW WALTER MENTIONED POSSIBLY CHANGING THAT TO ALLOW OTHER PARCELS, WHICH I THINK MAKES SENSE TO ME IN PUTTING SOME THOUGHT INTO THAT IF YOU HAD A FARM, MOST OF THE SOLAR PROJECTS OR ALL OF THE SOLAR PROJECTS ARE MADE UP OF MULTIPLE PARCELS PUT TOGETHER SO YOU'RE LOOKING AT 200 FEET FROM EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THOSE PARCEL LINES.

IF YOU HAVE TWO FARMS WITH NO RESIDENCES, BUT THE SOLAR ARRAY GOES ACROSS BOTH OF THOSE, THEY WOULD NOT HAVE THE ABILITY TO DO A SETBACK MODIFICATION BECAUSE NEITHER OF THOSE PARCELS ARE RESIDENCES.

I THINK THAT IS SOMETHING YOU SHOULD TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION.

>> THERE IS A PROVISION IN THE LEGISLATION TO ALLOW FOR CONTINUOUS PARCELS THOUGH.

I THOUGHT WE HAD SOMETHING IN THERE WHERE IF YOU HAD TWO FARMS SIDE-BY-SIDE AND YOU WERE GOING TO HAVE A CONTINUOUS SOLAR ARRAY ON BOTH AND THE SETBACK WOULDN'T APPLY.

>> IF THAT'S A NO THEN WE'RE COVERED THERE. I'LL CONFIRM.

>> I THOUGHT WE HAD A PROVISION IN THERE.

IF YOU HAD A FARM HERE AND A FARM HERE AND THERE WAS NO RIGHT-OF-WAY IN-BETWEEN THE TWO, THE SOLAR RAY COULD CROSS BOTH PARCELS WITHOUT SETBACKS.

BUT WE CAN LOOK AT THAT AND MAKE THAT.

>> MATT, DO YOU KNOW IF THAT'S IN THERE?

>> IT'S IN THE CURRENT, RIGHT? I'M NOT SEEING IT IN THIS.

IT TALKS ABOUT INTERIOR PROPERTY LINES.

>> I THINK THE CONCERN ABOUT AGRICULTURAL LAND IS INTERESTING.

WE'VE BEEN DOING EVERYTHING WE CAN DO TO TRY TO PRESERVE AGRICULTURAL LAND.

THESE SOLAR PROJECTS ARE GOING TO USE UP THE AGRICULTURAL LANDS, SO NOW THEY'RE CONCERNED ABOUT THE 200 FEET.

I'M LIKE YOU, I'M NOT A REAL-SKILLED FARMER, YOU CAN TELL THAT.

I BELIEVE I'M LOOKING AROUND THE ROOM, I DON'T SEE ANY FARMERS IN HERE, BUT I THINK THE REASONS THAT COMMISSIONER BREEDING JUST SPOKE ABOUT THROUGH THE PLANNING COMMISSION, AND THEY'VE TAKEN A LOT OF THOUGHT AND DISCUSSION ON THIS.

I WOULD SAY THAT PROBABLY MR. SHOW WALTER'S STARTING OFF HIS COMMENTS BY SAYING THAT THESE ARE EXEMPT AND

[01:15:01]

PRETTY MUCH BEYOND OUR CONTROL IS NOT SOMETHING I WOULD LIKE TO HEAR, BECAUSE THAT'S SOMETHING WE'VE ARGUED ABOUT FOR A WHILE.

THEY SHOULD BE UNDER OUR CONTROL.

BUT I WOULD AGREE, IF THE POINT THAT YOU BROUGHT UP, IS THAT TAKEN CARE OF IN THE LANGUAGE?

>> I'M LOOKING, BUT YEAH, WE SHOULD DEFINITELY MAKE SURE [OVERLAPPING].

>> SO IF WE HAVE ADJACENT PARCELS, YOU'RE SAYING WE DON'T HAVE TO HAVE THEM SEPARATE BUT [OVERLAPPING].

>> THE BUFFER IS REALLY FROM IT'S [INAUDIBLE].

>> WHERE SOLAR ENERGY SYSTEM ENCOMPASSES MULTIPLE PARCELS, SETBACKS SHALL NOT BE REQUIRED FROM INNER PARCEL BOUNDARY LINES. SO WE COVERED THAT.

>> I THOUGHT IT WAS COVERED, I THOUGHT WE HAD ADDRESSED THAT.

>> WE'RE GOING TO MAKE THE ONE MINOR CHANGE THAT KATHLEEN IS SUGGESTING.

THERE IS NO HARM IN STATING EXPRESSLY THAT THE ONES THAT HAVE ALREADY APPLIED AND ARE IN THE PIPELINE, ARE EXEMPTED FROM THIS REQUIREMENT.

YOU CAN'T DO AN EX POST FACTO AFTER-THE-FACT LAW AND APPLY IT RETROACTIVELY TO A PROJECT THAT HAS ALREADY BEEN THROUGH THE APPROVAL PROCESS.

>> WE ALREADY KNEW THAT THESE OTHER PROJECTS WEREN'T GOING TO BE AFFECTED BY THIS BECAUSE THEY HAD BEEN THROUGH APPROVALS.

>> THERE'S NO HARM IN PUTTING A SENTENCE AND IT SAYS, OBVIOUSLY.

>> DO WE KNOW WITH EVERYTHING THAT WE HAVE IN THE PIPELINE RIGHT NOW, INCLUDING THE ONE THAT WAS JUST TALKED ABOUT, HOW CLOSE ARE WE TO OUR LIMIT?

>> WE'RE VERY CLOSE, BUT MAY I HAVE THE NUMBER?

>> I DON'T KNOW THE EXACT NUMBER, BUT IT'S SOMEWHERE AROUND 1,700 ACRES.

YOU CAN TAKE 15 ACRES.

>> OUR MAXIMUM IS 2000.

>> THIS IS APPLIED TO THE LAST 300 ACRES, IT COMES ALONG.

>> UNTIL THAT GETS PRETTY. [OVERLAPPING] [LAUGHTER]

>> YES. I THINK EVERYBODY SAYS THAT'S.

[LAUGHTER].

>> IN ALL FAIRNESS, IT IS POSSIBLE THAT THE JUDGE AT THIS HEARING, YOU MAY RECALL WE'VE BEEN TO THESE HEARINGS, WE'VE ATTENDED THEM, COULD SEE THAT WE WOULD EMPHASIZE THAT THAT WE HAVE THIS IN OUR ORDINANCE.

WE WOULD REALLY LIKE THAT TO BE A CONDITION THAT YOU IMPOSE ON THE PROJECT.

WHETHER THE THE JUDGE DOES THAT OR NOT, I CAN CONTROL.

BUT THERE MIGHT BE A NOD TO US.

MAY NOT BE A WHOLE 200 FOOT, IT MIGHT BE [OVERLAPPING].

>> THE CPC AND JUDGE DOES HAVE SOME MR. SHOW WALTER'S ASSERTION THAT ARE LOCAL ZONING IS PREEMPTED IS CORRECT, THAT THIS 200 WOULD NOT APPLY TO A PROJECT THAT NEEDED TO GO IN FRONT OF A CPC.

>> HAD ALREADY GONE.

>> BUT NEW PROJECTS MOVING FORWARD, THIS WOULD APPLY TOO.

>> IT WOULD APPLY TOO.

>> IF THE PROJECT COMES IN AND DESIGNS IT IGNORING OUR ORDINANCE, THAT BECOMES A BONE TO BE PICKED AT THE HEARING, IN FRONT OF THE JUDGE REQUESTING THE JUDGE TO HONOR THIS, THERE IS LOTS OF GOOD REASONS WHY THAT SHOULD BE MADE A CONDITION OF THE APPROVAL YOU ARE PROBABLY GOING TO GRANT IN THE CERTIFICATES, SO IT'S THERE.

I DON'T THINK WE SHOULD PUT THIS ASIDE AND SAY, WELL, DON'T EVEN TRY.

LET'S NOT EVEN HAVE A COUNTY ORDINANCE, WE SHOULD DEFINITELY HAVE IT IN PLACE.

>> REGARDING THE CLARK CANNING ROAD PROJECT THAT WAS MENTIONED, I'M NOT FAMILIAR WITH THAT PROJECT, BUT THEY HAVE NOT GONE TO THE BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS YET.

THIS WOULD APPLY TO THAT PROJECT.

YOU COULD HAVE THIS APPLY TO THAT OR YOU COULD ALSO THINK OF [INAUDIBLE].

>> IS THIS ONE PARCEL OF LAND?

>> YES, SIR. OURS IS IT JUST ONE PARCEL?

>> I THINK YOU SAID 15 ACRES, IS THAT CORRECT?

>> YES SIR.

>> IS IT BOUNDED BY ROAD OR OTHER FARMLAND, I'M NOT FAMILIAR WITH THEM.

>> YES. IT IS BOUND BY QUITE MANY HOSPITALS TO THE SOUTH, AND THEN FEDERALS,

[01:20:01]

[INAUDIBLE] PROBABLY 60 ACRES, AND WE'RE JUST TAKING THE TOP 15.

>> IS THERE ANY FURTHER PUBLIC COMMENT? NO ONE ELSE SIGNED UP.

WE'LL CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING ON LEGISLATIVE BILL 2023-004.

>> SO MOVED.

>> ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE.

>> WE WILL NOW MOVE ON TO OUR CONSENT AGENDA.

DOES ANYONE HAVE ANY QUESTIONS, ACTUALLY?

>> I HAD ONE QUESTION ABOUT THAT BILL WE JUST TALKED ABOUT.

DID THE BOARD WANT TO MAKE THE SECOND AMENDMENT THAT MR. SHOW WALTER RECOMMENDED ABOUT THE RESIDENTIAL PROPERTIES, THE 200-FOOT SETBACK AGREEMENT?

>> CHANGING THE ABILITY TO [OVERLAPPING].

>> IT SAYS MODIFICATIONS FROM BILL REQUIREMENTS MAY BE GRANTED BY OWNERS OF RESIDENTIALLY ZONED PARCELS OR EXISTING RESIDENCES.

SO I THINK WHAT MR. SHOW WALTER'S REQUEST WAS, CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, THAT WE TAKE OUT THE WORDS RESIDENTIALLY OR EXISTING RESIDENCES, THAT SETBACK MODIFICATION AGREEMENTS COULD BE DONE BY ANY PARCELS.

>> RIGHT, AND ALSO IF YOU'RE GOING TO DO AN AMENDMENT ONE OUT OF MEN, I HAVE NO HARM.

I SEE NOTHING WRONG WITH PUTTING IN THERE.

IT DOES NOT APPLY TO PREVIOUSLY APPROVED PROJECTS.

>> IF THE BOARD WOULD LIKE, WE CAN MAKE THOSE TWO CHANGES FOR THE NEXT.

>> WHAT IF THE PARCEL WAS A ROAD OR PUBLIC ROAD AWAY, WOULD YOU ALLOW MODIFICATION TO THAT IN THAT CASE THEN? WHO WOULD NEGOTIATE THAT MODIFICATION? JUST NOT A NEIGHBORING, IT WOULD BE THE PROPERTY OWNER OR ACROSS THE RIGHT WAY.

>> DEPENDS ON WHETHER THE PUBLIC ROAD IS OWNED IN FEE SIMPLE BY, LET'S SAY CAROLINE COUNTY AS OPPOSED TO THE STATE OF MARYLAND, IS SIMPLY AN EASEMENT ACROSS WHICH IS VERY RARE.

I DON'T THINK WE HAVE ANY OF THOSE.

WE EITHER OWN THE ROAD OR THE TOWN DOES.

THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION. TECHNICALLY, THE WAY IT'S WORDED, THE ADJOINING PROPERTY OWNER WOULD BE THE COUNTY.

>> I THINK IT WOULD BE CONSIDERED AS ALMOST LIKE A COUNTY ROAD BECAUSE IT'S PUBLIC.

>> YOU RAISED A VERY GOOD POINT AND YOU COULD CLARIFY THIS BY AMENDING THIS BILL TO DISTINGUISH BETWEEN A ROAD THAT TECHNICALLY WOULD BE OWNED BY THE STATE OR THE COUNTY, BEING CONSIDERED AN ADJOINING PROPERTY OWNER FOR PURPOSES OF NEGOTIATING A SETBACK.

DO YOU WANT THE COUNTY OR THE STATE EMPOWERED TO NEGOTIATE THAT MODIFICATION OF THE 200 FOOT SETBACK? OR DO YOU WANT IT TO BE THE FARM OR THE RESIDENCE OR WHATEVER ACROSS THE COUNTY ROAD?

>> WHEN DO YOUR PLANNING COMMISSION NEED TO GO?

>> NOVEMBER.

>> BUT THERE IS AN OPTION. YOU COULD HAVE THIS GO BACK TO THE PLANNING COMMISSION FOR DISCUSSION.

>> I THINK THAT WE'RE GETTING INTO TERRITORY WHERE WE MAYBE, THINK ABOUT IT, SOME NOT TRYING TO FIGURE IT OUT RIGHT NOW. THINKING ABOUT THE DIFFERENT.

REVISIT IT, I DON'T KNOW IF THERE'S ANY BRUSH ON THIS.

I'D RATHER SEE THIS DISCUSSION OF ALL THE ALTERNATIVES BEFORE WE START.

>> WOULD YOU LIKE IT REMANDED TO THE PLANNING COMMISSION?

>> DOES THAT NEED A MOTION?

>> I THINK IT DOES.

>> I WOULD MOVE THAT THE LEGISLATIVE BILL 2023-004 BE REMANDED BACK TO THE PLANNING COMMISSION FOR FURTHER DISCUSSION.

>> MOTION AND SECOND, ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE.

>> ALL OPPOSED. WE WILL GET THAT CLEANED UP.

THEN GET IT BACK UP HERE.

>> RIGHT.

>> THE CONSENT AGENDA, I WOULD LIKE TO REMOVE THE PO NUMBER

[8. Consent Agenda:]

[01:25:03]

2024-0179 FROM THE CONSENT AGENDA AND HAVE THAT AS A SEPARATE ACTION ITEM, SO I CAN RECUSE MYSELF FROM THAT DISCUSSION AND VOTE.

>> 0179.

>> THAT'S THE SECOND ONE ON THE CONSENT AGENDA.

WE CAN MOVE THAT OFF AS AN ACTION ITEM.

>> DO WE NEED A MOTION WILL DO THAT.

I WOULD MOVE THAT WE REMOVE THE CONSENT AGENDA ITEMS PO-2024-0179 TO AN ACTION ITEM AGENDA.

>> MOTION IS SECOND. ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE.

>> I JUST HAVE A QUESTION HERE, I TRIED TO READ THROUGH THE MOU, LONG SHARP ROOT.

WE'RE SIMPLY SAYING IN THIS MOU THAT WE ARE TAKING THE RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE COST OF SUBDIVIDING THAT PIECE OF PROPERTY. IS THAT CORRECT?

>> THAT NO OTHER OBLIGATIONS THAT WE HAVE.

>> NO. JUST SURVEYING.

MY UNDERSTANDING IS WE'RE JUST SURVEYING IT, COVERING THE CLOSING COSTS AND I THINK THAT WOULD BE IT RIGHT? [OVERLAPPING]

>> WELL, THE IDEA IS THAT IN RETURN FOR THAT, THAT YOU WILL BE DATED TO THE PROPERTY THAT YOU'RE GOING TO BE HOPING TO BALL FIELD, I THINK, RIGHT?

>> YEAH. A COUPLE OF BALLS [OVERLAPPING]

>> THAT'S THE UNDERSTANDING THAT'S WHY IT'S UNDERSTOOD THAT THEY ARE GOING TO CONVEY THAT PARCEL TO US.

THE OTHER TWO PARCELS WOULD REMAIN IN THAT [INAUDIBLE] POTENTIAL INTERESTED IN ONE OF THE PARCELS EVENTUALLY MAKING IT'S WAY INTO THE COUNTY OWNERSHIP.

THIS HAS NOT BEEN SENT TO DENTIN YET FOR ITS INPUT.

IT'S SIMPLY AT THIS POINT, [NOISE] SOMETHING THAT WE'VE COME UP WITH AND WANTED YOU ALL TO APPROVE, AND THEN WE WOULD SEND IT ON TO THE TOWN AND THE TOWN WOULD NO DOUBT CONSIDERATE AND POSSIBLY HAVE SOME TWEAKS TO IT BEFORE IT WOULD BE FINAL?

>> SO THIS IS JUST OUR APPROVAL TO SEND TO THEM.

I DID TALK TO MR. GETTO, THE TOWN MANAGER YESTERDAY, AND HE HAS PULLED IT FROM OUR WEBSITE AND DISTRIBUTED IT TO THE TOWN COUNCIL, SO THEY DO HAVE THIS DRAFT.

>> EXCELLENT.

>> I SEE WE'VE GOT THE SHERIFF HERE AND ANOTHER MEMBER OF OUR SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT.

DID YOU WANT TO TALK ABOUT ANY OF THE GRANT PROPOSALS ON HERE? ANY MORE DETAILS?

>> COME FORWARD, GET A LITTLE FACETIME, SHERIFF.

YOU'VE BEEN HERE ALL THIS TIME.

[OVERLAPPING] [LAUGHTER] YOU GOT ALL DRESSED UP, RJ, YOUNG [LAUGHTER]

>> I'M GOING TO LET RJ TALK ABOUT THE GRANTS.

>> GOOD MORNING.

>> LEXIPOL, WE WERE AWARDED GRANT FUNDING WITH YOUR APPROVAL TO OBTAIN WHAT'S CALLED LEXIPOL AND POLICEONE TRAINING ACADEMY.

LEXIPOL IS A GREAT POLICIES WITH THE INTENT TO DECREASE RISK AND PRESERVE LIFE.

IT IS A SUCCESSFUL ORGANIZATION THAT AUTHORS POLICIES FOR POLICE FIRE, EMS. THEY'RE BACKED BY EXPERT COUNSEL AND THEY DEVELOP ALL POLICIES SPECIALIZING IN LAW ENFORCEMENT, ALL WHILE MINIMIZING LEGAL RISKS AND LIABILITIES FOR OUR AGENCY.

RIGHT NOW, SHERIFF BURGER CAN TELL YOU WHEN HE TOOK OVER, HE WENT THROUGH EVERY POLICY FRONT-TO-BACK TO MAKE SURE EVERYTHING WAS UP-TO-DATE.

NOW THAT DIDN'T TAKE ABOUT SEVEN MONTHS.

USING LEXIPOL, THEY WOULD DO ALL THAT FOR US.

THEY WILL MAKE SURE ALL OUR POLICIES ARE UP TO DATE WHEN THE SESSION COMES IN AND GOES OUT WITHIN CASE LAW, MARYLAND OR FEDERAL LAW.

THEN THEY WOULD PUBLISH THAT TO US.

WE WOULD READ IT AND MAKE SURE THAT IT IS IN COMPLIANCE WITH WHAT OUR STANDARDS ARE AND THEN WE'LL PUSH IT OUT TO OUR DEPUTIES WITH A TRAINING TO ULTIMATELY MAKE SURE THAT EVERYBODY IS HELD ACCOUNTABLE AND THAT THE CITIZENS OF THIS COUNTY KNOW THAT WE ARE BACKED BY LEXIPOL, WHICH HAS A HIGH STANDARD IN THE UNITED STATES.

OUR POLICE TRAINING ACADEMY OFFERS OVER 1,200 ROLL-CALL VIDEOS THAT ARE BACKED BY THE MARYLAND POLICE TRAINING COMMISSION WHERE WE GET INTO SERVICE HOURS.

THAT IS ALSO SOMETHING WE CAN PUSH OUT TO OUR DEPUTIES.

[01:30:02]

THEY HAVE TRAINING LIKE USE OF FORCE, DE-ESCALATION, ACTIVE SHOOTER, MENTAL HEALTH, PTSD.

LIKE I SAID, IT'S A WHOLE CATALOG OF OF TRAINING THAT THE DEPUTIES CAN TAKE FOR IN-SERVICE HOURS TO STAY UP-TO-DATE ON EVERYTHING.

BASICALLY, RIGHT NOW IN-HOUSE WRITE OUR OWN POLICIES.

WE EITHER BEG, BORROW OR STEAL FROM OTHER STATE AGENCIES, AND THEN WE HAD THE ATTORNEY GENERAL AND SOMETIMES STEWART REVIEW OUR POLICIES.

BASICALLY WHAT THIS IS AN AFTER THE ISSUE IN BALTIMORE WITH BURGER AND THE STATE HAS SAID THAT WE HAVE TO HAVE A WAY WHERE NOT ONLY WRITE POLICIES, BUT WE HAVE TO HAVE OUR DEPUTIES BE ABLE TO SHOW THAT THEY UNDERSTAND THE POLICIES.

SO THROUGH LEXIPOL THEY WILL ACTUALLY DO THAT.

THEY WILL SEND OUT TESTS AFTER WE ISSUE A NEW POLICY AND THEN THAT WILL TRACK THAT THEY ACTUALLY UNDERSTAND AND HAVE READ THE POLICY.

THE BIGGEST THING IS GETTING DEPUTIES TO READ, WARN THE POLICY AND KNOW THAT THEY UNDERSTAND THE POLICY.

EVERY OTHER LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCY IS ALL IN LEXIPOL AND THE COUNTY EXCEPT FOR THE SHERIFF'S OFFICE.

WE HAVE APPLIED FOR A GRANT AND WE HAVE WORKED WITH OUR PARTNERS FROM THE PAV IN ORDER TO GET US TO THIS POINT, NOW IS HAVING EVERY LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCY HAVE THE SAME BASIC SET OF POLICIES.

OUR POLICIES WILL STILL BE DIFFERENT, BUT THEY WILL BE BASICALLY THE SAME.

THEN LEXIPOL ALSO GUARANTEES THAT IF WE'RE SUED AS A RESULT OF ONE OF OUR POLICIES, THAT THEY WILL DEFEND US IN COURT.

THERE WHAT, 35 AGENCIES, I THINK IN THE STATE OF MARYLAND, THEY USE LEXIPOL NOW.

>> THERE ARE AS USUAL, LOT OF LAW ENFORCEMENT BILLS ARE BEING PROPOSED IN THE LEGISLATURE, WHICH I'LL CATCH UP WITH YOU LATER ON.

THEY REVIEW THESE AS WELL?

>> THEY DO SO. EVERYTHING THAT COMES OUT OF EACH LEGISLATIVE SESSION, THEY UPDATE THEIR POLICIES AND THEN ULTIMATELY PUSH THEM OUT TO US, WHICH ONES ARE AFFECTED BY OUR POLICIES.

>> WE HAVE TO AGREE TO WHAT THEIR CHANGES AND EDITS ARE.

BUT I CAN TELL YOU THE BIGGEST STRUGGLE, THE SMALL AGENCIES HAVE, THE MOST LARGER AGENCIES HAVE JUST A POLICY GROUP THAT THEY DO NOTHING BUT REVIEW LEGISLATION WHEN IT COMES OUT, MAKES SURE OTHER POLICIES.

IT AGAIN TOOK ME SEVEN MONTHS TO GO THROUGH EVERY POLICY TO MAKE SURE THAT WE WERE IN COMPLIANCE OF CURRENT STATE LAW AFTER THE JUVENILE JUSTICE REFORM AND SO ON AND SO FORTH.

SO THAT WILL TAKE THAT AWAY FROM MY ADMINISTRATIVE STAFF AND ALLOW THEM TO FOCUS ON OTHER THINGS WHERE LEXIPOL WOULD DO THAT THEMSELVES.

EVERY LEGISLATIVE SESSION THAT CAME OUT, THEY WOULD REVIEW THE LEGISLATION AND UPDATE ALL OF OUR POLICIES AND SEND US THOSE UPDATES THROUGH BEFORE REVIEW.

>> DO THEY HAVE INPUT INTO THE POLICY SUCH AS LEGISLATIVE LEVEL?

>> I DON'T KNOW THEY HAVE A LOBBYIST.

I WOULD SAY THAT THEY ARE MORE OF A JUST A BUSINESS GROUP THAT TAKES THE INFORMATION AND THEN PUSHES IT OUT TO THE WAY THAT THE LAW WAS WRITTEN.

SO I WOULD SAY IS THAT THE SHERIFF'S ASSOCIATION, CHIEF'S ASSOCIATION ARE THE BODIES WHICH GO TO ANNAPOLIS AND LOBBY FOR GOOD LEGISLATION.

WHICH I WOULD LOVE TO TALK TO THEIR COMMISSURES LATER ABOUT READING A LETTER IN SUPPORT OF EFFORTS TO REVISE THE JUVENILE JUSTICE REFORM ACT.

>> I HAVE A MEETING TOMORROW AT 9:30.

IF WE GET DONE IN 9:30, I NEED TO TALK TO YOU.

>> WE CAN HAVE LUNCH TODAY.

>> IT'S GOOD. I'M HUNGRY. [LAUGHTER] I WANT TO GIVE SOME AIRTIME YOU'RE OKAY? AM GOING TO SAY WE GET ALL DRESSED UP [LAUGHTER]

>> WE GOT ALL DRESSED UP FOR THIS.

>> THEN THAT ANSWERS MY QUESTION.

>> THIS IS ALL GRANT FUNDED?

>> IT IS NOT. FUNDS COMES OUT OF THE CONFERENCE OF THE COUNTY AND WE'RE ACTUALLY EXTENDED NEGOTIATIONS TO RENEW THIS GRANT SO THAT WE CAN GET THE FUNDINGS TO GO FORWARD NEXT YEAR WITH THE CONTINUING YEARLY COST PAYING FOR THE ENTIRE LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCIES OUT OF TOWN AS WELL AS SHERIFF BURGER.

>> CAN I MAKE A COMMENT ON IT?

>> SURE

>> I THINK IT'S AN EXCELLENT USE OF GRANT FUNDS.

ONE OF THE PRIMARY CAUSES OF ACTION IN A SUIT AGAINST LAW ENFORCEMENT IS FAILURE TO TRAIN, AND IN DEFENSE, YOU'RE PROVING A NEGATIVE, WHICH IS I DID PROPERLY TRAIN THE DEPUTY, AND HE DIDN'T DO ANYTHING WRONG OR HE DID SOMETHING WRONG, BUT IT WASN'T MY FAULT AS THE SHERIFF WHO WAS A SEPARATE DEFENDANT FOR FAILURE TO TRAIN.

THIS GIVES YOU DOCUMENTATION AT THE HIGHEST LEVEL THAT THE TRAINING WAS PROVIDED?

>> EXACTLY. THAT'S MY BIGGEST STEWARD OF NOT HAVE CONVERSATIONS WITH THEM AS WELL AS THE ATTORNEY GENERAL, MANY DIFFERENT OCCASIONS BECAUSE I WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WHATEVER WE'RE DOING IS IN THE BEST LIGHT OF THE PUBLIC AND I BELIEVE THIS IS ABSOLUTELY IN THE VESSEL,

[01:35:02]

IT IS PUBLIC TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE GOING.

WE NEED TO DO TO KEEP UP WITH POLICIES AND PROCEDURES AND GET THE BEST TRAINING FOR THE DEPUTIES OUT THERE.

>> THANK YOU, GENTLEMEN.

>> YES. THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

>> THE ONLY THING I DO THINK THAT ELSEWHERE IT WAS ON THE AGENDA, THE PURCHASE ORDER FOR THE ANIMAL WHOLE BAND.

>> I DON'T THINK IT'S ON HERE.

>> MAYBE NEXT WEEK.

>> GET IT IN BEFORE THURSDAY.

>> THANK YOU. [LAUGHTER]

[LAUGHTER] OH, MAN.

YOU FOUND ONE, SHERIFF?

>> WELL, WE HAVE TO ORDER. WELL, WE ASKED FOR SOME REASON.

IT'S IN THE BUDGET, BUT I HAVE TO USE YOUR APPROVAL TO SPEND THE MONEY THAT'S IN THE BUDGET, SO WE DIDN'T FIND ONE.

>> I DON'T HAVE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS ABOUT THE CONSENT AGENDA.

>> WHAT'S THAT?

>> DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS?

>> I WOULD MOVE THAT WE APPROVE THE CONSENT AGENDA WITH THE EXCEPTION OF ITEM NUMBER 2, PO, NUMBER 2024-0179.

>> MOTION IN SECOND. ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE.

>> ALL OPPOSED. THE AYE'S HAVE IT.

I'M GOING TO TURN THE MEETING OVER TO YOU, JUST TO HAVE A MINUTE.

>> HE GETS TO LEAVE AND GO TO GO TO THE BATHROOM.

[LAUGHTER] LET ME FIND OUT WHERE WE ARE HERE.

PURCHASE ORDER NUMBER 2024-0178, AND CONTRACT.

THIS IS THE COMPANY CONTRACT AND MID-ATLANTIC ASPHALT FOR THE PAVING OF BASKETBALL COURT LOCATED IN JONESTOWN.

JAMIE, IS THIS YOU?

>> IT IS.

PAY-BACK CONTRACT FROM ATLANTIC ASPHALT [INAUDIBLE]

>> NOT BE VERY EASY, 178 OR 179.

THERE'S TWO DIFFERENT NUMBERS HERE.

>> PARDON.

>> OH, IT'S 179.

>> SORRY.

ON ONE PAPER IT SAID 179.

IT'S OKAY GUYS.

>> ANY QUESTIONS?

>> NO. I'LL MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE PO224-0179.

>> SECOND. ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE.

>> AYE. THANK YOU.

>> I'M GOING TO SUGGEST WE TAKE A FIVE-MINUTE BREAK.

[LAUGHTER] IF HE GETS ONE, WE GET ONE.

[LAUGHTER]

[01:44:16]

[BACKGROUND]

[9. County Administrator’s Report]

CALL THE MEETING BACK TO ORDER.

OUR NEXT AGENDA ITEM IS THE COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR'S REPORT. KATHLEEN.

>> I JUST HAVE A COUPLE OF ITEMS, DANNY, YOUR DEPUTY COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR AND I ATTENDED THE ANNUAL COUNTY ADMINISTRATORS CONFERENCE THAT MAY GO HOLDS EVERY YEAR.

THIS YEAR IT WAS IN QUEEN ANNE'S COUNTY, LOT OF MEETINGS AND DISCUSSIONS AND AS WE FOUND OUT,

[01:45:02]

QUITE FRANKLY, A LOT OF NEW COUNTY ADMINISTRATORS SINCE THE LAST ELECTION.

THERE WERE SOME GOOD CONVERSATIONS, WE DID A TOUR AND I THINK COMMISSIONER PORTER MIGHT MENTION SOMETHING ABOUT THE YMCA IN YOUR COMMENTS.

BUT WE DID TOUR THE NEW QUEEN ANNE COUNTY YMCA, WHICH I DON T THINK THE RIBBON CUTTING HAS HAPPENED YET. HAVE IT?

>> THIS WEDNESDAY, I BELIEVE, TOMORROW.

>> TOMORROW. WE HAD A TOUR OF THAT BUILDING AND IT WAS AMAZING.

IT WAS REALLY NICE.

WE ALSO TOURED THE [NOISE] RENOVATIONS TO ONE OF THE BRANCHES OF THE QUEEN ANNE'S COUNTY LIBRARY.

ANOTHER TOPIC THAT WERE DISCUSSING.

>> IT HAD HEAT AND AIR CONDITIONING.

>> IT DID HAVE HEAT AND AIR CONDITIONING [LAUGHTER] AND IT HAD A LOT OF WHAT DO THEY CALL IT? SPACE MAKER OR SOMETHING THAT WHERE THEY HAVE THE 3D PRINTING AND SEWING MACHINES AND I KNEW OUR OWN LIBRARY IN DENTON HAS SOME OF THOSE ITEMS. MY SON LIKES TO GO THERE AND USE THAT 3D PRINTER ALL THE TIME SO IT WAS A GOOD TOUR.

WE ALSO, ON THE LAST DAY WE WERE THERE, HAD A HEARTY CONVERSATION ABOUT BLUEPRINT, VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING RECRUITMENT AND RETENTION AND UNPAID FIREFIGHTING RECRUITMENT RETENTION AND SOME IDEAS THAT MAY GO AND FIREFIGHTING ORGANIZATION HAS LEGISLATION THIS SEASON, WE'LL SEE WHERE THAT GOES.

THEN JUST A CONVERSATION AMONGST THE COUNTY ADMINISTRATORS ON STRATEGIC PLANNING, WHICH WAS REALLY A PRELUDE INTO SOME CONVERSATIONS WILL HAVE AT WINTER MAY GO.

ACTUALLY IT WAS A VERY GOOD CONFERENCE OVERALL.

THEN THE ONLY OTHER TWO ITEMS THAT I HAVE IT JUST TO MAKE YOU AWARE THAT DANNY HAS BEEN LEADING THIS CHARGE, HAVE SOME ONGOING CONVERSATIONS WITH MES.

ONE REGARDING THE LANDFILL, DANNY HAD REACHED OUT TO MESS AUDIT FIRM AND REQUESTED A MEETING WHICH WILL HAPPEN ON OCTOBER 23RD, I BELIEVE, WITH BOTH OUR AUDIT FIRM, UHY, AND MESS AUDIT FIRM IN MES TO TALK ABOUT THE LANDFILL FINANCIAL INFORMATION.

WE HAVE A SEPARATE MEETING WITH MES AND NEXT AMP REGARDING THE SOLAR PROJECT. THAT'S ALL I HAVE.

>> NEXT UP WE HAVE COUNTY COMMISSIONER URBAN DISCUSSION PERIOD.

MR. BERNSTEIN WILL GO FIRST.

[10. County Commissioners Open Discussion Period]

>> HOW ARE YOU? HI, RON I GOT A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS FOR YOU.

>> YES SIR.

>> DICKENS WROTE AND I WAS DONE THE OTHER DAY, WE HAVEN'T GOT THE COVERS PAID YET.

>> SECOND WEEK IN NOVEMBER.

>> GOT YOU. [NOISE] I WAS DOWN BALKAN ROUTE THE OTHER DAY, I WAS OUT RIDING AROUND. SORRY ABOUT THAT.

>> THAT'S ALL RIGHT. [LAUGHTER].

>> THAT'S A GRASS FROM THE DIRT ROAD, IT HADN'T BEEN PAID IN A WHILE, I MEAN NOT PAID. HAVE BEEN LONG.

WHY HE'S UP THERE, WHEN IT HIT THAT IN CDLS ON THE NEW HIRES.

PRIOR ADMINISTRATIVE, WE WERE TALKING WE'RE NOT DOING A CDL BLAST TILL WE HAVE A YEAR.

>> UNTIL THEY'RE ALL PERTURBATION IS LAST WORD THAT OFTEN RECEIVE SPL PROBATION BEFORE WE SEND THEM.

BUT AS OF RIGHT NOW, THE GRANT MONEY IS GONE.

>> WHAT'S THE PROBATION?

>> SIX MONTHS.

>> I'M TALKING TO SHERRY BECAUSE I THINK JEREMY AND SHERRY WERE SAYING THAT THE LAST [NOISE] WAS SOMEBODY THAT, NEW HIRE WOULD BE A YEAR.

>> RIGHT NOW IT'S OVER TO YEAR WAIT TIME ANYWAY.

THEY TOLD US THE LAST TWO THAT WE TRIED TO SEND THE GRANT MONEY WAS GONE.

WE WOULD WANT TO PUT OUR OWN PLUGGING IN TO DO IT AND THERE ARE TWO YEARS OUT BEFORE THEY GET INTO THE CLASS BECAUSE THEY ALL ARE NOW AND THIS IS THIRD HAND INFORMATION ABOUT [INAUDIBLE] PEOPLE NOW AND SHERRY CHECKED INTO IT FOR ME TO MAKE SURE.

BUT APPARENTLY THEY ARE TRYING TO GET THE INDIVIDUALS THAT ARE INCARCERATED, NOW INTO THE CLASS AHEAD OF EVERYBODY ELSE, SO THEY HAVE A JOB STREAM WHEN THEY GET OUT.

EVERYBODY ALL BACK. MUST HAVE TWO YEARS BEFORE [INAUDIBLE] [OVERLAPPING].

>> DR. CONGRESSMAN SAID IT WAS CALLED OFF.

>> HE SAID IT WAS ALL CALLED OFF WHEN HE WAS IN HERE A COUPLE WEEKS AGO.

>> WELL, WE JUST ADJUSTED, THIS WAS YESTERDAY.

MY BAD, I JUST HAD A CONVERSATION YESTERDAY.

>> I NEED TO LOOK INTO IT. REMEMBER I TALKED TO YOU ABOUT GOING OVER TO DOVER TO THE FEDERAL OVER THERE AND OVER ABOUT HOW YOU CAN GET.

>> ALL THE GOOD STUFF ON YOURSELF.

>> WE CAN BECOME CERTIFIED OURSELVES TO DO THE CDO.

[01:50:03]

>> TRAINING.

>> I'LL CALL MY FRIEND TODAY AND ASK HIM HOW THAT WORKS.

>> EXTENSIVE CONVERSATION ABOUT THIS, IF SHE'S CHECKING THEM WITH BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW HOW TO CONTACT YOU SPOKE WITH [INAUDIBLE] SHE'S CHECKED IN WITH THEM.

THERE ISN'T A GREAT ONE [INAUDIBLE].

EVERYTHING IS COMING OUT OF MY TRAINING BUDGET.

>> CAN WE REACH OUT TO DR. COPPERY?

>> SURE.

>> SEND HIM AN EMAIL AND ASK HIM WHAT THE STORY IS.

IF YOU'RE INCARCERATED, YOU GET PREFERENCE OVER?

>> THAT'S WHERE THE PEOPLE WOULD JUST BE COLLEGE IS TELLING US THAT THEY WERE GETTING PREFERENCE OVER THAT'S WHY IT'S A BATTLE THAT WENT FROM SIX MONTHS WAIT TO A TWO-YEAR WAIT, ALMOST OVERNIGHT, APPARENTLY SOME PATCH.

>> IF YOU BREAK THE LAW, YOU GET PREFERENCE AHEAD OF SOMEBODY ELSE.

>> THAT'S JUST WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT TODAY.

>> MIKE ANDRE [NOISE].

>> THIS GUY HAS GOT UPSET ABOUT IT TOO.

>> ADVANCED FOR MORE MONEY?

>> NOW THAT PUSH BACK TWO YEARS, AFTER JOPLIN AREA.

>> THEN IF IF WE'RE GONNA BE INVESTING IN TRAINING, WE'VE GOT TO COME UP WITH SOME TYPE OF CONTRACT FOR RETENTION.

I KNOW IT'S DIFFICULT, BUT IS IT DIFFICULT?

>> I'VE BEEN DOING THEM FOR YEARS FOR FASTER TOWN IN THE COUNTY.

>> I CURRENTLY HAVE TWO THAT DO NOT HAVE NOT CALLED ON [INAUDIBLE] FOR THE LAST 6-8 MONTHS.

>> IF WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO BE PUTTING OUT COUNTY FUNDS FOR.

>> AS WELL, WE WOULD WENT TO THE YEAR THING THAT'S WHAT WE WERE TALKING ABOUT, BUT I DON'T KNOW IF IT EVER COME INTO WISH.

>> BUT YOU COULD STILL GET TRAINED AND THEN LEAVE THE NEXT DAY.

>> EXACTLY AFTER A YEAR.

>> BUT THEN YOU'LL OWE A PRO-RATED BASIS FOR HOW MANY MONTHS THAT YOU [OVERLAPPING]

>> IF YOU HAD A RECIPROCITY AGREEMENT THEN WE WOULDN'T NEED YOU TO WAIT AS LONG NECESSARILY BUT WE DON'T HAVE THAT FOR ANY COLLEGE EDUCATION IN THE COUNTY, AND THAT'S SOMETHING THAT'S BEEN TALKED ABOUT BEFORE ANYWAY, IF YOU PAID FOR ANY ASSOCIATES OR BACHELOR'S PROGRAM, THERE'S NO AGREEMENT IN PLACE OR IS THERE NOW?

>> THERE IS.

>> IT'S A ONE-YEAR REQUIREMENT SO IF YOU WERE TO GET IT APPROVED DEGREE WITHIN A YEAR, WE'D TAKE THE 365 DAY LOOK BACK AND ANY OF THE CLASSES WORKING THAT TIME, WE SAID SO BILLY.

>> IS THAT NEW? HOW DID I MISS THAT?

>> IT DOESN'T HAPPEN AT ALL, WE HAD ONE OR TWO THAT HAPPENED LAST YEAR [OVERLAPPING] JUST TO VERIFY THAT ALL KNOWLEDGE, BUT THEN IS ALSO SEVEN WEEKS THAT WE'RE PAYING THEM TO DO THAT SO THAT'S ALSO IMPORTANT REASON FOR THE COURSE.

>> JUST SO YOU KNOW, THE THE SALARY IS NOT SOMETHING YOU CAN GET BACK, THAT'S A BREAKOUT THAT YOU CANNOT DO THAT.

>> CAN WE REQUIRE IT AT NIGHT WHEN IT'S OFF TIME SO WE'RE NOT PAYING FOR THE TRAINING?

>> DO WHATEVER YOU WOULD [LAUGHTER]

>> THAT THE CLASS GOES TO DOUBLE THAT.

>> COST.

>> DOUBLE THE TIME.

>> FOURTEEN WEEKS INSTEAD OF SEVEN.

>> BECAUSE WE LOOKED INTO THAT A LITTLE MORE.

>> THAT'S RIGHT, THE CLASS ITSELF IS [OVERLAPPING]

>> THAT'S 14 WEEKS.

>> WE MIGHT HAVE TO WORKSHOP THIS.

WE MIGHT HAVE TO GET IT ON NON-AGENDA THING THE WORKSHOP BECAUSE IF WE'RE GOING TO PAY SALARY, THEN WE NEED TO HAVE PROBABLY A LONGER WORK REQUIREMENT AFTER THE TRAINING THAN JUST A YEAR.

>> THIS THROUGH THE WORKFORCE INVESTMENT BOARD, THEN REAL FUNDING IN SHANKER BURGER'S GROUP, IT'S JUST BE COLLEGE AND THEY ARE PROVIDING THE TRAINING, AND THEY THOUGHT THE GRAND PROGRAM WAS THROUGH [OVERLAPPING] WORKFORCE INVESTMENT.

ANYTHING ABOUT THE LACK OF FUNDING PROBABLY SHOULD COME FROM HIM JUST TO SEE WHAT [OVERLAPPING]

>> CAN YOU CHECK WHETHER ON THAT DEVOTEE? [LAUGHTER] FIND OUT IF IT IS OUT OF FUNDING OR WHERE IT'S COMING FROM?

>> THE OTHER THING I HAD WAS ON WHAT YOU'D MORE THINGS MAY GO.

I HAD A ZOOM WORKSHOP AT THE END, THEY WERE ABOUT AFFORDABLE HOUSING THAT THEY BELIEVED THE GOVERNMENT IS PRETTY COMPETENT, GOVERNMENT TRIED TO IMPLEMENT MORE AFFORDABLE HOUSING, AND THEY WERE TRYING TO STREAMLINE THE HEALTH DEPARTMENT VERSUS WHAT WE TALKED ABOUT LAST WEEK, BUT THE PLANNING IS ONLY TRYING TO MAKE IT FASTER.

TODAY WE'RE TALKING ABOUT INTRODUCING THIRD PARTY REVIEWERS, AND THIS IS JUST BACK AND FORTH ON THAT, SO THAT'S MORE TO COME ON THAT ONE.

LARRY YOU APPRECIATE THIS ONE.

THE SOCIAL SERVICES BUILDING OUT THERE ON MARKET STREET THAT THEY WERE PLANNING ON APPARENTLY IT'S $2 BILLION OVER BUDGET,

[01:55:04]

SO NOW THEY HAVE TO GO BACK AND REVISIT THE LEASE FOR THE BUILDING, AND THEN ONCE THAT'S COME TO A FINALIZATION, THEN IT HAS TO GO BACK IN FRONT OF THE PUBLIC WORKSHOP ALL OVER AGAIN.

IT'S PUSHED WAY OFF AGAIN BECAUSE THEY COME UP $2 MILLION DOLLARS OVER BUDGET, THAT'S WHERE WE ARE ON THAT.

>> NO COMMENT. I DON'T THINK THAT.

NO, WON'T SAY IT [LAUGHTER]

>> I THINK THEY WERE TRYING TO SKIMP SOMEWHERE AND IT CAUGHT UP WITH HIM AND THAT HE FIGURED OUT THE PRIORITIES WILL TAKE CARE OF THE BILL, SO NOW THEY GOT TO GO IN AND RENEGOTIATE THE LEASE.

>> THAT'S NOT LUCRATIVE ENOUGH FOR THE DEVELOPER?

>> YES. EXACTLY. THAT'S IT FOR ME.

>> WE TALKED ABOUT. YES. [LAUGHTER] IT SEEMS LIKE IT SHOULD BE FRIDAY, IT'S BEEN A BUSY TIME.

>> MR. PORTER.

I'LL START WITH THE CONVERSATION THAT I HAD, PROBABLY THE SIMPLEST ONE WAS I HAD A DISCUSSION LAST WEEK WITH ROBERT GILL FROM THE YMCA BOTTOM LINE IS, HE WANTED TO KNOW.

CAROLINE COUNTY IS STILL ON THE LIST OF COUNTIES THAT THEY ARE PLANNING TO TRY TO DO A YMCA IN, I TOOK THE INITIATIVE TELLING HIM THAT WE WERE STILL INTERESTED IN IT, WE ACTUALLY TOOK A LITTLE RIDE AROUND, AND TALKED ABOUT POSSIBLE LOCATIONS.

I SHOWED HIM THE PROPERTY NEXT TO THE HOUSE BUILDING THAT WAS ORIGINALLY PROPOSED FOR CAMPUS.

THANK YOU, MARY AND EVERYBODY FOR PULLING THAT INFORMATION TOGETHER AND SENDING IT TO HIM.

HE WANTED TO LOOK AT THE LAYOUT OF THE PARCEL FIRST AND GET THE EXACT AMOUNT OF ACREAGE, BUT I THINK WE'RE GOING TO CONTINUE TO WORK DIRECTLY WITH HIM TO TRY AND MOVE FORWARD TO SEE IF WE CAN GET SOMETHING STARTING HERE.

I THINK THE QUEEN ANNE FACILITY WAS 22 MILLION, I THINK THAT'S WHAT HE TOLD ME.

IT'S A LOT OF MONEY TO RAISE, I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE NUMBER WOULD BE HERE, BUT I DON'T KNOW IT WOULD BE SIGNIFICANTLY LESS, SO THAT IS THE CONVERSATION I HAD.

I DON'T KNOW, JEN, IF HE HAS OR NOT, I SUGGESTED THAT HE'D GET ON THE AGENDA, COME IN [OVERLAPPING] AND TALK TO US ABOUT THAT TO SEE EXACTLY WHERE WE CAN MOVE FORWARD, HOPEFULLY BY THAT TIME, HE WILL HAVE HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO DO A LITTLE BIT OF RESEARCH ON THAT LOT.

DEBBIE AND I MADE A TRIP TO ANNAPOLIS YESTERDAY, FOUND A PARKING PLACE AND EVERYTHING, AND MET WITH SECRETARY ANDERSON, BRUCE BEREANO, STEVE WISE, COMMERCE DIRECTOR, ANDY FISH AND NANCY LAJOYCE.

FIRST OF ALL, WANT TO THANK BRUCE FOR PULLING THAT TOGETHER AND GIVING US A PLACE TO MEET IN HIS BUILDING.

DEBBIE HAS PUT TOGETHER NOTES FROM THAT MEETING THAT I PRINTED OFF, I THINK IT WAS A GOOD MEETING.

OUR PROPOSAL, OUR ASK WAS THAT WE BASICALLY BE ALLOWED TO MARKET THAT PROJECT TO A PRIVATE DEVELOPER, AND DEBBIE, CORRECT ME IF I GET WRONG HERE ANYWHERE, TO MARKET TO A PRIVATE DEVELOPER AT THE APPRAISED VALUE, NOT AT THE VALUE THAT WAS PUT ON IT SOME YEARS AGO, WHICH IS NOT REALISTIC.

THE STATE HAS NOT ASKED FOR ANY PAYMENT ON THIS PROPERTY, I THINK IT'S, WHAT DID HE CALL IT?

>> PATIENT CAPITAL.

>> PATIENT CAPITAL SO THAT MEANS THEY'RE PATIENTLY WAITING.

I THINK THE BOTTOM LINE HERE IS WE'RE GOING TO CONTINUE TO WORK WITH THEM TO SEE WHERE WE CAN MOVE FORWARD HERE.

I DID NOT GET THE IMPRESSION THAT THEY WERE GOING TO ALLOW US TO SELL THE LOTS OR SELL THE PROPERTY AND KEEP THE MONEY, I THINK THEY'RE GOING TO REQUIRE, AND THAT WAS A LONG SHOT,

[02:00:01]

I THINK IT'S A REVOLVING FUND, SO WHATEVER WE SELL THIS LAND FOR, THAT MONEY WILL GO BACK INTO A REVOLVING FUND AT THE STATE LEVEL FOR THEM TO CONTINUE TO FUND PROJECTS, AND THAT MAKES SENSE, THERE'S NOT A BIG ARGUMENT ON THAT.

BUT THEY WERE RECEPTIVE TO WORKING MR. FISH WAS GOING TO GO BACK AND SEE IF THERE WAS ANY BOND MONEY INVOLVED, WE DIDN'T THINK THERE WAS, BUT HE WAS GOING TO VERIFY THAT.

>> LET'S GO BACK A LITTLE BIT FILE FROM.

>> 2003, I THINK.

WE DIDN'T THINK THERE WAS AND THEY DIDN'T KNOW THAT OR WAS BUT THEY WERE GOING TO DOUBLE-CHECK THAT ON THEIR END.

THE FEDERAL PART OF THIS MONEY RUNS OUT, THE OBLIGATION RUNS OUT ON IT, AUGUST OF 2024.

WE GAVE THEM THE PACKAGE THAT MACLEOD HAD DONE, WHICH I THINK WILL HELP THEM A LOT AND DOING A LOT OF THE BACKGROUND AND RESEARCH ON THIS.

BUT I THINK IT WAS A GOOD MEETING.

I THINK IT WAS A, CERTAINLY APPRECIATE SECRETARY ANDERSON TAKING HIS TIME.

WE WERE THERE FOR ABOUT OVER AN HOUR TALKING TO HIM AND HE WAS VERY COOPERATIVE, VERY RECEPTIVE, AND I THINK WE CAN PROBABLY WORK MOVING FORWARD AND MAKING SOME PROGRESS ON THIS.

IT WAS A WORTHWHILE MEETING.

DEBBIE, THANK YOU FOR PULLING ALL THE INFORMATION TOGETHER AND DID YOU HAVE ANYTHING YOU WANTED TO ADD TO THAT?

>> I DO WANT TO SAY THAT THIS IS THE MOST ATTENTION THAT WE'VE GOTTEN FROM COMMERCE IN THE FIVE YEARS.

I'VE BEEN TRYING TO GET SOME ATTENTION.

I THINK THAT THAT GOES TO THE DECISION TO BRING ON BRUCE AND STEVE BECAUSE THEY WERE ABLE TO GET SOME HIGHER-LEVEL PEOPLE TO SIT AROUND THE TABLE AND LISTEN TO THE CONCERN AS OPPOSED TO JUST GOING THROUGH STAFF.

I THINK SECRETARY ANDERSON WALKED AWAY WITH IDEA THAT IF WE PARTNER TOGETHER WITH COMMERCE, THAT THEY CAN HELP US THROUGH THEIR INDUSTRY SECTOR.

EXPERTS. PUT THIS ON THE RADAR OF PEOPLE WHO ARE WANTING TO COME INTO MARYLAND OR WANT TO EXPAND IN MARYLAND.

IN DOING SO THEN THEY'VE GOT THAT SKIN IN THE GAME TOO, OF BEING ABLE TO WORK.

YOU'LL SEE IN THE NOTES, I KEEP REFERRING TO HAIRCUT.

THAT'S THE DIRECTOR OF FINANCE KEPT CALLING THIS IDEA OF TAKING THE PRICE PER ACRE PRICE DOWN.

BUT THE SECRETARY SEEMED REALLY OPEN TO WORKING TOGETHER WITH COMMERCE TO GET THIS MARKETED.

I THINK THAT DOING SO IN A PROFESSIONAL WAY, IT'S REALLY WHAT THEY'RE LOOKING FORWARD TO.

COMMISSIONER PORTER, I AGREE.

IT WAS VERY POSITIVE PERSON.

>> HE'S GOING TO HAVE TO GO BACK AND MAKE HIS PROPOSAL ON WHY THEY WOULD ACCEPT A LOWER AMOUNT, WHICH MEANS THEY'RE GOING TO GET LESS MONEY.

I UNDERSTAND EXACTLY WHAT HE'S SAYING.

I THINK HE FELT HE COULD DO THAT USING WE DID NOT ASK FOR ANOTHER APPRAISAL.

HE JUST SO IF WE HAVE AN APPRAISAL WHICH I THINK IS AT 12, 5. IS THAT CORRECT?

>> HE DIDN'T SEE THE SENSE IN SPENDING MORE MONEY TO DO ANOTHER APPRAISAL.

THEY WERE HAPPY WITH USING THAT ONE.

ALL IN ALL, I THINK IT WAS PRODUCTIVE WHEN YOU GET THE SECRETARY IN FRONT OF YOU, THAT'S A BIG BIG PLUS.

>> THEY WANT TO PARTNER WITH PROMOTING THE PROPERTY AND TRYING TO FIND A USER.

YOU GET IT BACK ON THE TAX ROLES AND GET IT PRODUCING SOMETHING.

>> COUPLE OF THINGS I CAME AWAY WITH THAT I HADN'T PREVIOUSLY AND THAT IS THEIR CONCERN IS FOR MOST SURVIVING AN AUDIT.

HE SAID INEFFICIENT, SAID THAT A COUPLE OF TIMES MAKING SURE THEY CAN'T JUST CUT IT OUT, THEY CAN'T GIVE THIS.

THAT'S WHY THE REVOLVING LOAN HAS TO BE REALIZED FOR FUN SO GO BACK.

I THINK OUTSIDE OF THE TAX ROLES, THAT'S OUR RIGHT.

THAT'S WHAT WE WANT TO DO. THEIRS IS MAKING SURE THAT THEY CAN GET SOMETHING DONE, BUT THEN IT'S NOT SUCH A HIT ON THEM DURING AN AUDIT.

I DO THINK THAT THIS IDEA OF PROMOTING IT AS ALLOWING THEM TO HAVE SOMETHING ON THE EASTERN SHORE TO PUT THEIR FLAG IN IS IMPORTANT.

[02:05:02]

THE FACT THAT HE DIDN'T WANT A SECOND APPRAISAL.

WE ASK THAT QUESTION AND HE VERY MUCH WAS LIKE, NO, WE'LL GO BY WHAT YOU HAVE.

I THINK HE WANTS US TO HELP HIM MAKE THAT CASE TO THE SECRETARY AND TO THEIR BOARDS AND THEN TO THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY. YEAH.

>> HE'S GOING TO HAVE TO SIT IN FRONT OF A GROUP OF PEOPLE IN ORDER TO AUDIT GROUP AND SAY.

>> WHY DID YOU ACCEPT THAT?

>> WE SAID WE WERE GOING TO GET 3035, NOW WE'RE GONNA GET 125.

HE'S GOT TO HAVE SOMETHING TO ANSWER FOR BUT I THINK IT WAS PRODUCTIVE.

THEY ASK A LOT OF QUESTIONS AND I THINK WE ALSO HAVE A LOT OF QUESTIONS ABOUT THE INFRASTRUCTURE, ABOUT WATER AND SEWER, WHETHER THAT'S READY TO GO AND ELECTRIC YEAH, THE ELECTRIC SERVICE.

WE EMPHASIZE TO THEM THAT EVERY, WE'VE HAD ONGOING CONVERSATIONS WITH THE TOWN ORIGINALLY TO SEE WHERE WE ARE BECAUSE I THINK THE LAST THING WE WANT TO DO IS FIND SOMEONE, A PARTNER, AND THEN HAVE THEM GO SAY.

>> SEWER DON'T WORK.

>> SEWER DON'T WORK, WATER'S NOT AVAILABLE.

WE DON'T WANT THAT TO HAPPEN AND ORIGINALLY HAS BEEN VERY COOPERATIVE WITH US ON THAT SO IT'S GOT TO BE READY.

>> JUST BRING THIS MORE FORMALLY NEXT WEEK.

BUT AN IDEA THROUGH THE MARYLAND MONEY WAS TO DO THAT KIND OF ENGINEERING LOOK.

I THINK THAT WITH THIS INFORMATION FOR COMMERCE, THOSE HOLDING ON THAT BECAUSE IF THEY WERE GOING TO SAY NO, WE'RE NOT GOING TO WORK WITH YOU, WE DO SOMETHING DIFFERENT.

BUT I DO THINK THAT I WANT TO PUT TOGETHER A PROPOSAL OR ASK YOU GUYS WHAT YOU THINK WE SHOULD DO WITH THAT.

WE'VE GOT A LITTLE BIT OF FUNDS LEFTOVER.

THE LEGAL REVIEW WAS NOT AS BAD AS HIGH AS BUDGETED TO SEE IF WE CAN GET AT LEAST ON THE SEWER AN ANSWER TO THAT QUESTION, WILL IT WORK OR WHAT IS NEEDED TO GET IT TO WORK? I'LL PUT THAT TOGETHER AND COME BACK NEXT WEEK.

>> THAT CERTAINLY MAKES SENSE BECAUSE IF WE HAVE SOMEONE WHO'S INTERESTED, I'VE DEVELOPED PROPERTY.

FIRST THING I WANT TO KNOW IS, IS EVERYTHING WORKING THERE? WE NEED TO KNOW THAT, WE NEED TO BE ABLE TO VERIFY AND BE ABLE TO PROVIDE THAT INFORMATION TO THE DEPARTMENT OF COMMERCE TO HELP THEM WITH MARKETING.

BECAUSE IF THEY CAN SAY READY TO GO, THAT'LL BE A BIG PLUS.

>> THANK YOU, DEBBIE. I THINK THE NOTES ARE MORE DETAILED TO DEBBIE TOOK, BUT THAT'S THE BASIC TAKEAWAY FROM THAT MEETING.

THE OTHER THING IS TOMORROW IS THE MECO INITIATIVE SUBCOMMITTEE MEETING AT 9:30 AND THEN I'VE GOT ANOTHER ONE AT 11:00.

BUT MECO IS TRYING TO WHITTLE DOWN ALL OF THESE INITIATIVES.

I THINK THERE'S NINE OF THEM.

THEY'RE TRYING TO WHITTLE THOSE DOWN TO FOUR THAT THEY CAN PUSH TO REALLY MAKE THEIR GOALS.

ANY FEEDBACK THAT YOU GENTLEMEN HAVE, A LOT OF A NUMBER OF THESE DEAL WITH THE SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT.

THAT'S WHY I WANT TO MEET WITH SHERIFF BAKER, BUT THEY DO HAVE SOLAR IN HERE, TRANSPARENCY AND EDUCATION FUNDING, WHICH I THINK WE'RE ALL ON BOARD WITH.

BUT IF YOU WANT TO I'M SORRY, I DIDN'T GET THIS TO YOU EARLIER, BUT I JUST GOT TO IT MYSELF YESTERDAY.

THAT'S AT 9:30 I'LL BE ON THAT CALL AT 9:30 AND THEN I THINK WE TAKE ANOTHER ONE AT 11:00.

CERTAINLY FOLLOW UP WITH WHAT THE DECISIONS ARE MADE.

WE'RE MOVING CLOSELY, BELIEVE IT OR NOT, TO THE SESSION WHICH I KNOW EVERYBODY IS LOOKING FORWARD TO, AND WE'LL GO FROM THERE.

THAT'S ALL I GOT. THANK YOU.

>> OKAY. LAST WEEK I DID MEET WITH JOSH PARKER AND ROBIN K. HALL AT THE HEALTH DEPARTMENT.

I HAD A BRIEF DISCUSSION WITH THEM ABOUT TRYING TO STREAMLINE THE PROCESS SIMILAR TO THE WAY PLANNING IN CODES HAS, AND THEY BROUGHT UP SOME INTEREST IN USING THE LLAMA SOFTWARE THROUGH A SEPARATE SUBSCRIPTION.

SO I THINK IF IT HELPS THEM TRACK

[02:10:05]

THE PERMITS AND IT GIVES US THE ABILITY TO SEE WHERE THEY ARE IN THEIR REVIEW PROCESS SO THAT PLANNING AND CODE STAFF HAS AN IDEA WHERE THINGS ARE SITTING AND RESIDENTS CAN ALSO TRACK THE PROGRESS THROUGH AN APPLICATION PROCESS TO BE MORE TRANSPARENT, I THINK IT'S A GOOD IDEA TO SUPPORT THEM.

AND USING THAT SOFTWARE, I KNOW THERE WERE SOME CONCERNS ABOUT CONFIDENTIALITY IF THEY WERE TO USE THE SAME SYSTEM THAT PLANNING ENCODES USES THE ABILITY TO ACCESS EACH OTHER'S INFORMATION.

IT WAS A BIT OF A CONCERN, BUT I THINK IT COULD POTENTIALLY BE WORKED THROUGH AND I THINK IT WILL ULTIMATELY BE A GOOD THING IF WE CAN INCORPORATE THAT LLAMA SOFTWARE INTO THE HEALTH DEPARTMENT SOME TYPE OF WAY.

THAT DISCUSSION, AND THEN WE TALKED ABOUT A LOT OF THE REGULATIONS THAT MARYLAND DEPARTMENT OF ENVIRONMENT HAS, THE HEALTH DEPARTMENT ENFORCING.

I THINK ROBIN ACTUALLY SENT US ALL AN EMAIL THAT HAS THE AGREEMENT THAT DATES BACK TO 2008, I THINK?

>> EIGHT.

>> MY UNDERSTANDING IS MARYLAND DEPARTMENT OF ENVIRONMENT HAS SENT A NEW MOU AGREEMENT TO THE HEALTH DEPARTMENT AND ROBIN WAS GOING TO GET THAT OVER TO OUR LEGAL DEPARTMENT AND TO US TO REVIEW IT BECAUSE APPARENTLY THERE ARE SOME CHANGES TO THAT AGREEMENT.

BEFORE SHE WAS GOING TO APPROVE IT, SHE WANTED APPROVAL FROM US TO DO THAT, WHICH I NOTICED ON THE OLD MOU, IT DID NOT HAVE A COMMISSIONER SIGNATURE, IT WAS JUST A HEALTH OFFICER THING.

SO I'D BE CURIOUS TO HAVE A CONVERSATION WITH MR. BARREL ABOUT HOW INVOLVED WE NEED TO BE IN THIS.

THE POTENTIAL SITING OF A YMCA, JAMIE, DO YOU KNOW, WOULD PROGRAM OPEN SPACE PROPERTY BE AVAILABLE FOR THAT, OR CAN WE CHECK AND SEE IF THAT'S SOMETHING SO WE HAVE ALL THE OPTIONS ON THE TABLE? BECAUSE I THINK YOU HAD MENTIONED MAYBE THAT OTHER PARCEL, A SHARP ROAD OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

JUST TO HAVE ALL THE OPTIONS ON THE TABLE FOR WHEN WE HAVE THAT DISCUSSION.

>> I KNOW OBVIOUSLY THERE COULD BE RECREATIONAL INTERESTS, IT'S THE MATTER OF OPEN TO THE PUBLIC THAT WOULD BE IN QUESTION, BUT I WILL CERTAINLY REACH OUT.

>> I THINK THAT'D BE HELPFUL. THE PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION MEETING, HAVE WE MADE ANY HEADWAY ON THAT?

>> WE'RE WORKING ON GETTING DATES, THERE'S JUST A LOT OF PEOPLE.

>> BECAUSE THAT'S GOING TO BE FAST APPROACHING, SO I THINK WE HAVE TO GIVE DCT SIX MONTHS' NOTICE.

IT'S PROBABLY NOT GOING TO HAPPEN THIS YEAR AGAIN, SO THEY'LL COME IN AND ASK FOR 100 AND SOME THOUSAND AGAIN, AND WE'LL GIVE THEM 75 [LAUGHTER] OR ANOTHER YEAR, AND WE'LL KEEP RUNNING EMPTY BUSES AROUND THE COUNTY.

[OVERLAPPING] BUT MAYBE IF WE START NOW, WE MIGHT GET THERE.

>> I WILL MENTION ONE THING THAT I DID FORGET ON THE YMCA, IS THAT ROBBIE MENTIONED THAT I BELIEVE QUEEN ANNE COUNTY DID INCORPORATE THE SENIOR CENTER INTO THAT.

>> AND HE FELT THAT THERE WAS, NOT GUARANTEED, BUT HE FELT THAT THERE WERE AVAILABLE FUNDS THAT WOULD BE ON HAND THROUGH THE DEPARTMENT OF AGING IF WE WANTED TO COMBINE THE SENIOR CENTER WITH THE YMCA.

>> THE YMCA IN ST. MICHAEL'S HAS A SENIOR CENTER IN IT AS WELL, AND I THINK ANDY HOLLIS TALKED ABOUT $800,000 WAS AVAILABLE.

>> THAT'S THE FIGURE ROBBIE MENTIONED AS WELL.

>> GOOD. THAT COULD POTENTIALLY HELP US WITH OUR SENIOR CENTER ISSUE AS WELL.

>> I WILL MENTION REAL QUICK, I JUST CHECKED OUR EMAIL AND WE HAVE A COPY OF PROPOSALS FOR THE HVAC REPLACEMENT OF THE HVAC SYSTEMS IN GREENSBORO FROM MRDC.

>> GOOD.

>> GOT SOME NUMBERS ANYWAY.

>> THAT'S IT FROM THE COMMISSIONERS.

I WILL OPEN IT UP TO ANY PUBLIC COMMENT.

IS THERE ANYONE IN THE PUBLIC WHO WOULD LIKE TO COMMENT AT THIS POINT?

>> JUST TO CIRCLE BACK WITH THE WHIP, I HEARD FROM [INAUDIBLE] TO THE ARPA FUNDS, WHICH WERE PRETTY EASY TO APPLY, THEY'VE RUN OUT.

THERE'S WIOA FUNDING, BUT NO ONE IN THE COUNTY EMPLOYED WOULD QUALIFY FOR THAT,

[02:15:02]

SO THAT'S WHERE THE DISCONNECT IS.

>> SO THAT WOULD BE SOMEONE UNEMPLOYED, ESSENTIALLY?

>> RIGHT, EXACTLY.

>> OR UNDEREMPLOYED?

>> INTERESTING. THANK YOU FOR THAT UPDATE.

DO I HEAR A MOTION TO ADJOURN?

>> SO MOVED.

>> SECONDED.

>> ALL IN FAVOR, SAY AYE.

[11. Meeting Adjourns]