>> AS THE AGENDA. WE'RE GOING TO TRY AND DO THAT.
[00:00:04]
I ALSO WANT TO MENTION THAT TONIGHT WE HAVE OUR STATE'S ATTORNEY, SLOAN FRANKLIN, WHO'S HERE TONIGHT BECAUSE WE DO HAVE A POSSIBLE VIOLATION.>> JEFF, DO YOU HAVE AN EXTRA ONE OF THOSE PACKETS?
>> HERE, I GOT [INAUDIBLE] NOW. [BACKGROUND]
>> I GUESS THE FIRST ORDER, A BUSINESS FIRST TO THANK YOU FOR BEING A BOARD MEMBER FOR SHOWING SOME INTEREST IN THIS BOARD.
I KNOW WE HAVEN'T MET IN YEARS AND IT'S BEEN ON AN AS NEEDED BASIS, BUT WE ARE TRULY SUPPOSED TO MEET AT LEAST TWICE A YEAR SO WE'RE GOING TO TRY TO GET THIS BOARD UP AND RUNNING, LIKE IT HAVE ALWAYS BEEN RUN, WHICH IT HAS NOT BEEN RUN CORRECTLY.
THE VERY FIRST THING THAT WE HAVE TO DO IS AT THE FIRST MEETING OF THE CALENDAR YEAR,
[Election of officers]
WHICH WOULD BE OUR FIRST MEETING, IS ELECT SOME OFFICERS.TYPICALLY, WHAT WE DO IS WE HAVE A CHAIR AND A VICE CHAIR.
IF ANYONE IS INTERESTED OR YOU WANT TO MAKE A NOMINATION FOR SOMEONE ON THIS BOARD TO BE CHAIR AND VICE CHAIR, WE'RE OPEN TO SUGGESTIONS FROM FEW BOARD MEMBERS.
>> I NOMINATE JILL PORTER AS CHAIR.
>> I'LL SECOND. [LAUGHTER] I WAS ACTUALLY GOING TO NOMINATE YOU.
>> DO WE HAVE ANY NOMINATIONS FOR A VICE CHAIR?
>> DEMOCRACY IN ACTION OR MISS ACTION.
>> NOW, WE'LL SAY, THIS IS GOING TO BE AN ANNUAL THING.
NOW, NOT TO SAY THAT THIS BOARD WON'T ELECT THE SAME TWO PEOPLE NEXT YEAR.
>> A FOUR OR THREE-YEAR TERMS.
>> BUT HOW OUR CODE IS WRITTEN IS EVERY YEAR AT THE FIRST COUNTY YEAR YOU ELECT OFFICERS.
IT CAN REMAIN THE SAME OR YOU CAN PICK DIFFERENT MEMBERS.
>> SAME PAY. [LAUGHTER] DOUBLE NOTHING.
[Discussion of possible development near or on burial site]
WHAT WE SHOULD BE DOING IS MAKING SOME RECOMMENDATIONS AS A BOARD FOR WHEN WE HAVE SOME POSSIBLE COMPLAINTS OR SOME ISSUES WITH CEMETERIES.WE HAVE ONE RIGHT NOW THAT WE BELIEVE A CEMETERY EXISTS BUT WE HAVE NOT CONFIRMED THAT YET, AND THAT'S WHY MR. FRANKLIN IS HERE.
WE HAD RECEIVED COMPLAINTS FROM MARYLAND DEPARTMENT OF ENVIRONMENT ABOUT SOME TREE CLEARING THAT WAS HAPPENING WITHOUT PERMITS, ALSO WITHOUT [INAUDIBLE] CONTROL APPROVAL FROM THE SOIL CONSERVATION DISTRICT.
COME TO FIND OUT THE OWNER OF THE PROPERTY HAD CLEARED TREES BASICALLY FOR INSTALLATION OF THE CENTER PIVOT IRRIGATION SYSTEM AND PILED UP ALL THE TREES IN A LOCATION WHERE SOME PEOPLE HAVE PROVIDED SOME COMMENTS ON THAT THEY KNOW A CEMETERY IS THERE.
WE'VE FOUND A DEED THAT REFERENCES A CEMETERY.
BUT BECAUSE OF THE AMOUNT OF TREES LOCATED ON TOP OF THE SITE, WE HADN'T BEEN ABLE TO VERIFY THAT YET.
THE SHERIFF'S OFFICE IN CONJUNCTION WITH THE STATE'S ATTORNEY'S OFFICE IS ACTIVELY INVESTIGATING THE SITUATION.
FROM THAT POINT, I'LL LEAD OVER TO MR. FRANKLIN AND HE CAN EXPLAIN WHERE THEY ARE IN THE PROCESS AND WHAT WE'LL DO AS A COUNTY TO MOVE FORWARD.
>> WHEN A SEARCH WARRANT WAS ISSUED BY JUDGE FRAS AFFIDAVITS THAT A NUMBER OF PEOPLE HAVE SAID THAT THERE'S A CEMETERY OF A 5-YEAR-OLD GIRL AT THIS LOCATION, I DON'T HAVE STREET ADDRESS, I JUST HAS TAX ID NUMBER [INAUDIBLE].
PEOPLE HAVE ALSO INDICATED THAT THE ONE PERSON THAT ACTUALLY SAID THEY SPOKE TO THE OWNER OF THE PROPERTY, ADVISED THEM THAT THERE'S A CEMETERY THERE.
AS MATT SAID, THE ONLY KEY REFERENCE IS A 1871 DEED THAT REFERENCES THE BURIAL GROUND.
MOST PEOPLE HAVE SAID THAT THEY THINK IT'S JUST A 5-YEAR-OLD GIRL, I DON'T KNOW.
WE CAN'T SEE IT OR FIND IT UNTIL WE REMOVE ALL THE TREES.
THE SHERIFF IS GOING TO EXECUTE A SEARCH WARRANT MOST LIKELY ON FRIDAY TO HELP PUBLIC WORKS TO REMOVE THE TREES AND LOOK AND ASSESS IF THERE'S ANY DAMAGE OR [INAUDIBLE] THERE.
THAT'S WHERE WE'RE AT. IF IT'S THERE AND IT'S BEEN DESTROYED THEN WE NEED TO FIGURE OUT WHAT WE'RE GOING TO DO WITH THE REMAINS OR TO HAVE PUT BACK TOGETHER OR WHAT? THAT'S WHERE YOU GUYS COME IN.
IT IS A VIOLATION OF THE MARYLAND LAW AND A PENALTY OF FIVE YEAR $5,000 FINE.
I CAN TELL YOU THAT THE GENTLEMAN THAT OWNS THE PROPERTY OR THE COMPANY,
[00:05:05]
THE LLC IS NOT TOO KEEN ON LISTENING TO THE LAW.>> IT'S ALSO A VIOLATION OF COUNTY CODE.
WE PROMULGATED AND PASSED A LAW ON THAT BEFORE.
>> THERE'S A COUPLE OF DIFFERENT VIOLATIONS THAT WOULD EXIST ONCE WE VERIFY.
WE ALREADY KNOW THAT AN [INAUDIBLE] CONTROL PLAN HAS NOT BEEN FILED SO THAT'S A VIOLATION.
WE ALREADY KNOW THAT TREES HAVE BEEN CLEARED WITHOUT APPROVALS, WITHOUT ANY FORCE CONSERVATION PLAN AND/OR DECLARATION OF INTENT, SO THAT'S A VIOLATION.
WHETHER OR NOT THE CEMETERY EXISTS, THAT'S UP FOR DEBATE UNTIL WE FIND OUT FOR SURE BUT THAT WILL ALSO BE A VIOLATION.
IF IT COMES TO THE FACT THAT WE CAN GET OUT THERE AND VERIFY WHAT'S THERE, I GUESS THE QUESTION BECOMES, AT WHAT POINT DOES THIS BOARD WANT TO MAKE SOME RECOMMENDATIONS? WOULD YOU WANT TO SEE WHAT IS OUT THERE BEFORE TRYING TO DECIDE WHAT YOU WANT TO DO OR THERE ARE SOME THINGS THAT YOU THINK SHOULD HAPPEN, AND THEN MAYBE WE VERIFY LATER ON AFTER DOING? BECAUSE WE CAN DO A SITE VISIT FOR BOARD MEMBERS.
WE COULDN'T ALL DO IT AT ONCE BECAUSE IT'D BE OPEN MEETINGS ACT VIOLATION BUT WE COULD DO A FEW MEMBERS AS LONG AS IT'S NOT CONSIDERED TO BE A QUORUM.
>> I HAVE A QUESTION. YOU SAY IT'S A 5-YEAR-OLD GIRL, AND DO YOU HAVE THE DEED OF DATE, LIKE 1870, WHO OWNED THE PROPERTY TO GO BACK FOR?
>> THE FAMILY THAT OWNED IT, THERE WAS JUST BACK AND FORTH ON OWNERS.
BARCUS WAS THE NAME OF THE FAMILY THAT WE BELIEVE IS THE NAME ON THE HEAD.
>> HOWEVER, THAT WAS NOT THE FIRST FAMILY TO HAVE A FAMILY PLOT THERE.
THERE WAS SUPPOSED TO BE A CAPTAIN HENRY, I'M FORGETTING THE LAST NAME.
BUT HIS GRAVE WAS SUPPOSED TO BE THERE.
AND THAT GRAVE WOULD HAVE BEEN PUT IN SOMETIME IN THE MID TO LATER 1800S.
BUT HIS GRAVE WAS SUPPOSED TO BE THERE.
HOWEVER, I RESEARCHED HIM AND THERE ARE NO LIVING FOR [INAUDIBLE].
AT LEAST WE SEE WHAT STONES ARE THERE.
WE DON'T HAVE ANY WAY TO EVEN FIND OUT WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT.
>> DID YOU HAPPEN TO CHECK THE GENEALOGIC SOCIETY BACK IN THE 1980S, GET AN INVENTORY OF ALL THE CEMETERIES IN CAROLINE COUNTY THAT THEY COULD ACCESS?
>> BUT THAT'S WHY MEGHAN FOUND THIS DEED.
THEY WERE NOT FOUND TO BE THERE.
HOW MANY ACRES IN THIS PARCEL?
>> IT'S A BIG ONE. I THINK IT'S AROUND 100 AND I WANT TO SAY FOR 160.
I DON'T LIKE THE STAT SHEET FROM ME.
>> I WAS PUT IN THE BURIALS SITES [INAUDIBLE] TREES.
>> STRANGE COINCIDENCE, ISN'T IT?
>> THERE WERE TREES AROUND IT.
[OVERLAPPING] BY THE PICTURE, I'M ASSUMING THE TREES THAT ARE PILED ON IT WERE ONES THAT WERE CUT OFF THAT WERE AROUND IT.
I WAS GOING TO ASK, I'D LIKE TO GET A COPY OF THE COUNTY CODE, AND ACTUALLY, THE STATE LAW.
I HAVE PEOPLE ASK ME ALL THE TIMES IN THOSE COMMITTEES, I SHOULD KNOW THIS ANSWER.
I HAVE A CEMETERY ON MY PROPERTY AND I JUST MOW THE GRASS.
THERE'S NEVER BEEN ANY TREES COME UP ON IT.
BUT IS SOMEBODY ALLOWED TO ACTUALLY TAKE A DEAD TREE DOWN AT SERVER CEMETERY, TAKE A LIVE TREE DOWN AT SERVER CEMETERY? I KNOW YOU WOULDN'T WANT TO RIP IT OUT BUT CAN YOU CUT OFF A LIVE TREE OVER CEMETERY? WHAT'S THE LAW?
>> BECAUSE IF YOU'RE ALLOWED TO CUT THEM, SO HE CUT THEM BUT COULD HE HAVE JUST CUT IT, PICKED IT UP, AND MOVED IT AWAY FROM THERE, THEN WHEN HE WOULD HAVE BEEN FINE, IS THE FACT THAT HE DISCARDED IT RIGHT WHERE HE CUT IT, IS THAT IT?
>> WELL, I HOPE BACK UP A SECOND FOR ME.
NOW, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT THIS INDIVIDUAL APPARENTLY IS GUILTY OF IS CUTTING DOWN, I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT THE CEMETERY, BUT HE CUT DOWN A BUNCH OF TREES ON THE PROPERTY.
IF WE CUT DOWN A TREE, I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT A CEMETERY, BUT AT WHAT POINT DOES CUTTING DOWN A TREE OR TREES TREAD ON SES OR WHOEVER?
[00:10:04]
>> ANY TIME YOU DO TREE REMOVAL, YOU ARE SUBJECT TO FORCE CONSERVATION ACT REQUIREMENTS.
NOW, THERE ARE EVEN FIRE TREES FOR FIREWOOD? YES. THERE ARE EXEMPTIONS WITHIN THE STATE LAW.
THERE ARE EXEMPTIONS IN THE STATE LAW THAT ALLOW YOU TO CLEAR FOREST FOR SPECIFIC USES UNDER A CERTAIN THRESHOLD.
ONE OF THE MOST COMMONS IS CALLED A SINGLE-LOT DECLARATION OF INTENT, WHICH IS FOR RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT.
WE GET THOSE ANYTIME SOMEBODY IS BUILDING SOMETHING ON THEIR PROPERTY, THAT'S USUALLY IT'S FOR RESIDENTIAL USE.
YOU CAN CLEAR UP TO 20,000 SQUARE FEET OF FOREST WITHOUT HAVING TO COMPLY WITH THE FOREST CONSERVATION ACT.
YOU FILL OUT THIS SINGLE PAGE FORM.
THERE'S NO FEES ASSOCIATED WITH IT BUT BECAUSE WE HAVE TO TRACK FOREST, WE'RE DELEGATED AS THE APPROVING AUTHORITY FROM THE STATE THAT WE HAVE TO TRACK THIS AND WE SUBMIT THIS ANNUALLY TO MARYLAND DEPARTMENT OF NATURAL RESOURCES.
YOU FILL OUT THE FORM. IF YOU CLEAR UNDER 20,000, YOU'RE EXEMPT FROM THE LAW.
NOW, IF YOU HAVE TO CLEAR 20,001 SQUARE FEET OF FOREST THEN YOU HAVE TO COMPLY WITH THE FOREST CONSERVATION ACT, WHICH TYPICALLY REQUIRES A FOREST CONSERVATION PLAN AND SET ASIDE AN EASEMENT OF EXISTING FOREST OR FOREST THAT YOU HAVE TO PLANT ON-SITE, OFF-SITE, COULD BE IN A TREE BANK, DEPENDS ON THE SITUATION.
BUT ALL FOREST REMOVAL IN THE STATE OF MARYLAND IS TRACKED, AND YOU EITHER HAVE TO COMPLY THROUGH AN EXEMPTION OR YOU HAVE TO COMPLY WITH THE ACTUAL ACT ITSELF.
THE NEXT THING THAT COMES INTO PLAY IS A CENTERS [INAUDIBLE] PLAN.
ANY TIME YOU DISTURB LAND OF 5,000 SQUARE FEET OR GREATER, YOU HAVE TO HAVE AN EROSION CENTER FOR CONTROL PLAN APPROVAL.
IN THIS SPECIFIC CASE, WE KNOW HE CLEARED MORE THAN, JUST FROM AN ESTIMATE OF BEING ON SITE, DEFINITELY CLEARED MORE THAN 5,000 SQUARE FEET, AND SOIL CONSERVATION DISTRICT DEFINITELY VERIFY THAT AS WELL.
MOST OF THE TREES THAT THEY CLEARED FROM MILES, I HAD NOT BEEN ON SITE PERSONALLY, BUT THE PICTURES THAT WERE TAKEN AND FROM THE DESCRIPTION OF OUR CODE ENFORCEMENT OFFICER, WAS ALL ALONG SOME DITCHES ON SITE, WHICH, AGAIN, HE WANTS TO PUT IN THE CENTER PIVOT IRRIGATION SYSTEM.
TREES ARE IN A WAY, HE JUST CUT THEM DOWN.
DIDN'T GO THROUGH THE APPROVAL PROCESS.
>> IS RUSSIAN TREES GROWN UP ON A DITCH CONSIDERED BY THE COURT?
>> IT STILL HAS TO BE TRACKED.
>> I MADE A VOLUNTEER POP UP IN THE YARD EARLIER, I'M IN TROUBLE NOW.
>> WHAT I WAS GETTING AFTER MY QUESTION WAS, CAN WE ESTABLISH THAT THERE WAS SOME MALICE INVOLVED HERE?
>> IT WAS ACCORDING TO THE AFFIDAVIT THAT WAS GIVEN BY ONE OF THE A PERSONS, THEY PERSONALLY TOLD THE GENTLEMAN THAT THERE WAS A CEMETERY THERE.
>> WELL, AGAIN, I WOULD NEED TO LOOK AT ALL THE CODES AGAIN BUT THAT SEEMS LIKE A WILLFUL DISREGARD.
THAT'S NOT LIKE SOMEBODY'S PLOWING AND THEY ACCIDENTALLY KICK UP AN OLD STONE THAT'S SUBSURFACE OR SOMETHING, SOMETHING OF THAT ILL. THAT'S, AS I SAID, WILLFUL.
I THINK THAT AND PILING EVERYTHING ON TOP OF IT LOOKS PRETTY, CAN'T FIND THE RIGHT WORD FOR IT, BUT BAD. [LAUGHTER] EGREGIOUS.
>> I THINK THERE WAS A MONUMENT APPARENT.
IF THERE WASN'T A MONUMENT, YOU CAN'T ESTABLISH.
THERE WERE CEMETERIES ALL OVER THIS COUNTY THAT ARE BURIED UNDERGROUND THAT WE'LL NEVER KNOW WHERE THEY ARE. [INAUDIBLE]
>> IF THERE WAS A MONUMENT THERE, NOT LAST YEAR BUT THE TWO YEAR BEFORE THAT, I HARVESTED CORN AND BEANS AROUND THIS SITE AND I NEVER SEEN ONE FROM THE COMBINE LOOKING IN BECAUSE THERE WAS GREENBRIER AND HONEYSUCKLE.
ON THE GUYS BEHALF, I DID BUT I DIDN'T STARE.
I DIDN'T STAND THERE AND LOOK IN, I DIDN'T CLIMB IN THE MESS, BUT I DID NOT VISUALLY SEE ONE.
BUT YOU WOULD THINK WHILE THEY WERE CUTTING TREES, IF THERE WAS ONE THERE THEN YOU WOULD HAVE THOUGHT THAT HE WOULD HAVE SEEN IT.
>> A GENTLEMAN BY THE NAME OF BEN SIMPSON SAYS THAT HE MOVED TO HIS PROPERTY NEXT DOOR, 259 ACRES, AND HE SAID HE OBSERVED THE CEMETERY AND THE HEADSTONE.
>> ANOTHER PERSON SAID HE PERSONALLY OBSERVED TOMBSTONES.
I CANNOT RECALL HOW MANY WERE THE MARKINGS.
ANOTHER ONE SAID THAT HE OBSERVED TOMBSTONES TWICE.
THERE WAS A LOT OF WEEDS AND FLUSHING OF THE TREES.
[00:15:05]
>> ERIC, WHEN I WAS A KID, THE TRUNKS WERE THIS BIG AROUND AND 10 FOOT TALL, AND NOW THEY'RE 30 FOOT TALL WITH TRUNKS THAT BIG AROUND.
>> THE SIX YEARS SINCE I WAS A KID [LAUGHTER].
>> WELL, I MEAN, I THINK WE MIGHT BE BEATING A DEAD HORSE AT THIS POINT UNTIL WE'LL GET THAT DEBRIS OFF OF THERE AND SEE WHAT'S GOING ON.
I THINK HAVE TO LOOK OVER THE COUNTY CODE IN COMAR AND SEE WHAT WE WANT TO DO.
BUT IF YOU HAVE, I'M NOT SURE, I DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THE LAW, AFFIDAVITS OR WHATEVER, TESTIMONY FROM PEOPLE, I THINK THAT'S PRETTY TELLING IT'S A WILLFUL DISREGARD OF AT LEAST COMMON SENSE INDECENCY.
>> SO IS THE PLAN TO GO AHEAD AND CLEAR THIS TO SEE WHAT'S UNDERNEATH IT TO MAYBE ANSWER HIS QUESTION IF HE KNOWINGLY KNEW IT WAS THERE?
>> I THINK THAT'S A DECISION THAT A JURY WOULD HAVE TO MAKE FOR A PRIOR OF FACT. YOU'D HAVE TO MAKE A POINT.
BASED ON THE AFFIDAVITS, THE JUDGE THOUGHT THERE WAS ENOUGH PROBABLE CAUSE TO ISSUE A SEARCH WARRANT.
THE SHERIFF'S OFFICE IS GOING TO EXECUTE THAT SEARCH WARRANT ON FRIDAY, AND THEY START MOVING THE TREES.
>> I'M ASSUMING THIS IS A MISDEMEANOR OFFENSE?
>> IT IS A MISDEMEANOR, SUBJECT TO FIVE YEAR $10,000 FINE.
>> ARE THERE MONETARY FINES ASSOCIATED WITH THE TIMBER VIOLATIONS AND STUFF LIKE THAT?
>> YES, SIR. I'M NOT EVEN SURE WHAT HE'S BEEN CITED FOR IF WE HAVE CITED HIM YET?
>> ARE YOU ALL CITING HIM OR IS IT NDE?
BECAUSE I HAVEN'T BEEN A PART OF THAT CONVERSATION.
>> I THINK ONE FOR THE ENVIRONMENT IS TO REMOVE SOME OF THE TREES IN WETLAND.
THERE ARE SOME FINES THAT COULD BE IMPOSED.
>> IT SEEMS TO BE THAT WE'RE CONFLATING TWO ISSUES HERE.
THE TREES ARE IRRELEVANT TO US.
ALL WE CARE ABOUT IS WHATEVER THE SIZE OF THE PLOT WAS AND THE DISPOSITION OF THAT GRAVE IF THERE IS ONE THERE.
IT'S IRRELEVANT TO WHETHER ANY OF THE REST OF THIS IS IN THE COMMUNITY.
BUT IF WE'RE TRYING TO GET THIS INDIVIDUAL TO PUSH HIM TOWARDS CERTAIN ACTIONS, LIKE THE REMEDIATION OF THE SITE, THE LARGER AMOUNT OF FINES AND OR INCARCERATION WOULD HAVE MORE EFFECT.
>> THE BROWN STATUTE ACTUALLY REQUIRES A PERSON WHO DOES IT IN THEIR POSITION TO BE STORED.
OR IF WE CAN GO UP WITH SOMETHING ELSE..
>> TRUST ME, THIS GUY HE HAS A LOT OF MONEY.
ANYBODY'S FAMILIAR WITH T4 FARM AND NORCHESTER COUNTY?
>> QUICK QUESTION FOR YOU GUYS.
SINCE WE'RE NOT SURE HOW MANY GRAVES POTENTIALLY ARE THERE, DOES THE COUNTY HAVE A GROUND PENETRATING RADAR OR ACCESS TO ONE SO THAT YOU COULD ACTUALLY SURVEY THE SITE TO THE EXTENT THAT THE GRAVES ARE THERE?
>> THAT HAVE TO BE BROUGHT IN AND PAID FOR.
>> WE DO NOT. BUT IF IT'S SOMETHING THAT WE WOULD NEED TO USE TO LOCATE, I'M SURE WE CAN FIND A WAY TO MAKE IT HAPPEN.
>> I'M SURE THE UNIVERSITIES HAVE THEM AND OTHER FOLKS HAVE THEM.
>> IN PRINCIPLE, I THINK THAT'S GREAT, BUT LET'S JUST DO THE HYPOTHETICAL HERE.
ANY ONE OF US COULD STUMBLE ONTO A GRAVEYARD IN CAROLINE COUNTY THAT'S BURIED AND NOT KNOW IT.
AND IF THE GUY DIDN'T HAVE GROUND PENETRATING RADAR OR SONAR OR WHATEVER ON HIS PERSON AT THAT MOMENT, I'M GIVING THIS GUY MAYBE MORE BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT.
IF YOU NEED RADAR OR SONAR TO FIND IT, THEN IT PROBABLY WASN'T APPARENT IN THE FIRST PLACE. DO YOU TAKE MY POINT?
>> I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE SAYING. ALL I'M SAYING IS IF THERE WAS A MARKER THERE AND HE KNOWINGLY THREW IT ON TOP OF THE MARKER, THE WAY YOU DETERMINE THE EXTENT OF THE ACTUAL BEARING GROUND IS TO USE A GPR TO DETERMINE THE ACTUAL EXTENT SO THAT WHEN IT'S REMEDIATED YOU ACTUALLY MARK OFF THE ENTIRE EXTENT OF THE BEARING GROUND AS OPPOSED TO ONE STONE.
>> WHAT TROUBLES ME ABOUT THIS, I GUESS, IS THERE SHOULD BE A STONE THERE.
IF THERE WAS A STONE THERE AND THEN THAT IS A FLAG RIGHT.
>> WHATEVER MIGHT HAVE BEEN ABLE TO HAVE BEEN A FLAG.
>> NELSON SIMPSON ALSO STATED THAT AROUND TWO WEEKS AFTER THE FIRST THE PERSON FIRST LANDED,
[00:20:04]
HE SAW HIM WALK THE PROPERTY, AND HE PERSONALLY TOLD HIM ABOUT THE CEMETERY AND ITS LOCATION.>> OH, HE'S BEEN OUT THERE FOR 35 YEARS.
>> HE'S A NEIGHBOR. SO IF HE PERSONALLY TOLD HIM AND THEN HE CONTINUED TO DO THIS AND JUST WENT AHEAD AND PILED STUFF THERE, THAT'S WILLFUL [OVERLAPPING] FIND THAT, I BELIEVE QUESTION BECOMES, DID HE DESTROY ANYTHING THAT PLACE THE TREES TREES PLACED. THAT'S THE BIG QUESTION.
>> OR WAS MR. SIMPSON MISTAKEN? THAT'S THAT'S THE OTHER PART OF THIS.
>> OR DID HE PICK UP STONES BEFORE HE PILED THINGS THERE?
>>> YEAH. THAT'S ANOTHER THING.
>> YEAH. SURE. WE WON'T KNOW ANYTHING UNTIL THE TREE [OVERLAPPING].
>> I COULD JUST JUST TELL YOU THAT THERE WAS A FAMILY CEMETERY OF OURS THAT SOMEBODY HAD BOUGHT THE PROPERTY, AND WHAT THEY DID WAS, THEY REMOVED THE STONES.
SO THEN THERE WAS NO WAY TO TELL WHERE THE GRAVES WERE.
AND THEN YOU GO BACK TO VISIT THE CEMETERY, THE STONES ARE GONE, AND EVERYTHING'S BEEN RELANDSCAPED SO YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHERE IT IS.
IT WOULDN'T BE BEYOND BELIEF IF HE WAS INTENT ON DOING THAT, HE WOULD REMOVE THE STONE.
AND IF YOU HAVE THREE WITNESSES THAT SAY, THERE ARE STONES THERE AND WE KNOW THEY'RE THERE, WE'VE SEEN THEM MANY TIMES, I THINK IT'S WILLFUL.
>> IF YOU'RE GOING TO BURY SOMEBODY ON YOUR OWN PROPERTY TODAY, YOU HAVE TO HAVE THE AREA SURVEYED.
YOU HAVE TO SET UP A TRUST ACCOUNT THAT'LL TAKE CARE OF THE MAINTENANCE AD INFINITUM.
AND IT SHOULD BE PLACED TO YOUR DEED.
AND THAT'S IF YOU WERE TO DO IT TODAY.
IF WE FIND ONE THERE AND I DON'T KNOW WHAT POWER THE STATE HAS, BUT IT SHOULD BE PLACED TO THE DEED.
>> WHAT'S IN THE DEED? YOU WRITE A DEED.
>> BUT YEAH, BUT ARE THE COORDINATES ON THERE?
>>WELL, I DIDN'T GET TOUCHED ON THAT [LAUGHTER].
>> WELL, I THINK WE COVERED THIS AS FAR AS WE CAN TONIGHT.
WE'RE, NO MORE FRAG, RIGHT? AND THEN THE NEXT TIME WE MEET OR IF WE NEED TO MEET JUST FOR THIS, THEN WE'LL KNOW.
AND IF WE COULD HAVE SOME COPIES OF THE COUNTY AND COMAR THAT ARE PERTINENT, WE SHOULD HAVE THOSE ANYWAY.
THEN WE CAN LOOK OVER STUFF AND THEN AS I REMEMBER CORRECTLY FROM BEFORE OR HOPEFULLY REMEMBER CORRECTLY, THEN THE BOARD WOULD REVIEW AND VOTE ON WHAT WE THOUGHT THE COURSE OF ACTION WAS AND THEN DEFER THAT TO THE PLANNING AND ZONING, WHICH WOULD, I GUESS, FORWARDED TO YOU.
AND THEN YOU HAVE TO MAKE A DECISION.
IS THAT STILL THE CURRENT THINKING OF PATHWAY?
THAT'S HOW THIS BOARD HAS ALWAYS OPERATED AS ON THE PRESUMPTION OF MAKING RECOMMENDATIONS ON WHAT SHOULD BE DONE.
OBVIOUSLY, IF THERE'S A CONVICTION INVOLVED AND THAT INVOLVES RESTORING IT, NOT KNOWING WHAT WAS THERE PREVIOUSLY OR THE CONDITION IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN IN, I THINK THAT'S WHERE THIS BOARD HAS TO DISCUSS WHAT WOULD BE REASONABLE AND REESTABLISHING THAT AREA.
>> WELL, FOR A MINUTE, LET'S JUST SAY THAT ON FRIDAY, THEY FIND THREE TOMBS.
THEN MY THINKING WOULD BE THAT THE NEXT STEP IS FROM SOME POINT, SOMEBODY NEEDS TO COME IN WITH GPS SYSTEM, SURVEY THAT AREA AND FIND OUT HOW MANY MARKED AND UNMARKED GRAVES THERE ARE.
AND THEN ONCE WE HAVE THAT DATA, FIGURE OUT OUR OPTIONS AT THAT POINT.
AND THIS PART I'M VERY FUZZY ON BUT RANDY MAY KNOW IF HE STOPS PLAYING TIC-TAC-TOE [LAUGHTER].
>> NO. I'M TRYING TO FIND A MAGNIFIER, SO I CAN LOOK AT THIS THING [OVERLAPPING].
>>BUT GRAVES CAN BE MOVED BY A LICENSED [OVERLAPPING].
>> YOU GOT TO GO TO THE STATE'S ATTORNEY [LAUGHTER].
>> YEAH, YOU GOT TO APPLY IT TO THE STATE'S ATTORNEY AND WRITE A LETTER.
AND EVERYBODY WHO'S INVOLVED HAS TO BE NAMED BECAUSE YOU DON'T WANT TO BE IN COURT WITH THIS.
SO HE INVESTIGATES EVERY RECALLS EVERYBODY WHO'S INVOLVED.
IF HE DETERMINES THAT NOBODY'S GOING TO PROTEST THIS, HE CAN GIVE HIS PERMISSION FOR IT TO BE DONE.
[00:25:03]
>> AND THEN IT HAS TO BE ADVERTISED.
>> BUT I'M NOT SPEAKING IN FAVOR OF THAT AT THIS POINT, I'M JUST SAYING THAT THAT'S A POSSIBLE PATHWAY.
AND THE OTHER IS THAT HE CLEANS IT UP, GETS THE TOMBSTONES, FENCES IT, AND LEAVES IT TO HELL ALONE. PARDON MY FRIEND.
>> EVERYBODY HAS A DIFFERENT VIEW OF LOOKING AT IT, BUT IT'S POSSIBLE THAT.
>> AND CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, BUT IF HE IS FOUND IN VIOLATION, AND YOU HAVE WRITTEN RECORDS OF PEOPLE OBSERVING TOMBSTONES, IT'S $1,000 FINE, AND THEN EACH DAY THAT IT'S NOT MITIGATED; IS THAT CORRECT?
THE CRIMINAL IS UP TO FIVE YEARS IN JAIL AND/OR A $10,000 FINE.
>> I THOUGHT FOR EACH DAY, THAT'S ANOTHER THOUSAND.
>> WELL, IF THIS GUY IS FILTHY RICH, THE $10,000 IS JUST GOING TO CAUSE HIM TO TEST ONCE OR TWICE.
FACING SOME POSSIBLE TIME WOULD BE DIFFERENT.
AND THEN WHATEVER THE COUNTY, APPARENTLY HE'S GOT DEEP POCKETS, BUT THAT SHOULDN'T REALLY AFFECT WHAT WE SEE AS THE PATHWAY.
>> AM I RIGHT IN THINKING YOU'RE FAMILIAR WITH THIS FARM? GO AHEAD.
>> SO WHAT ARE THE IMPLICATIONS OF THE CEMETERY ON BEHALF OF THE VALLEY SYSTEM?
>> THEY WOULD JUST CROSS OVER IT.
HE COULD STOP DESIGN SO THE WHEEL TRACKS AREN'T RUNNING OVER IT CAN JUST CROSS OVER IT.
I'M SURE HE TOOK THE TREES DOWN SO THE PIVOT COULD GO OVER IT.
WHAT I WAS GOING TO SAY BEFORE IS EVERYBODY'S DIFFERENT, BUT IN MY MIND, THAT'S WHAT I WANT TO SEE WHAT THE COUNTY CODE IS ON TREES IN A CEMETERY.
BUT MY GUESS IS THE ROOTS OF THOSE TREES HAVE GROWN RIGHT THROUGH, UNLESS THEY WERE ON CONCRETE VAULTS, THAT GROWN RIGHT THROUGH WOODEN BOXES DECOMPOSED.
HE DIDN'T PULL THEM OUT, HE JUST CUT THEM OFF.
IF YOU LIFT THE MESS OFF AND THE STONES ARE STILL STANDING WITH A WEED WHACKER IN A COUPLE OF HOURS, IT MAY LOOK BETTER THAN IT DID FOR THE LAST 43 YEARS THAT I'VE KNOWN HAS BEEN THERE.
SO YOU ALMOST WANT TO PAT THE GUY ON THE BACK.
WHAT I HEARD THAT RUMOR WAS HIS INTENT WAS TO CHIP ALL THE TREES THAT ARE THERE THAT HE COULDN'T SELL FOR TIMBER.
IF IN FACT HE PULLED THEM OFF, RUN THROUGH A CHIPPER, SPREAD THE CHIPS OUT, CLEAN THE MESS UP, IT COULD BE WAY BETTER THAN IT'S BEEN FOREVER.
>>> I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO ESTABLISH MALICE BECAUSE WE'RE MAKING A LOT OF ASSUMPTIONS.
>> WELL, AND ALSO, YOU DON'T REALLY KNOW HOW FAR OUT THE GRAVES ARE.
YOU MAY HAVE TWO OR THREE STONES IN THE CENTER, BUT YOU MAY HAVE A PLETHORA OF GRAVES AROUND THE OUTSIDE THAT IT MAY END UP GETTING TILED UP OR TILED UP.
>> I'M GOING TO SAY THAT THE THING IS PROBABLY LIKE A 40-FOOT CIRCLE, YOU COULD PROBABLY MEASURE.
I'M GOING TO GUESS IT'S RIGHT UP THERE.
AND IT HAS BEEN MOLDBOARD PLOWED AROUND.
THE GUY THAT GOES UP UNTIL TWO YEARS AGO THAT PASSED AWAY, TOM MCCARTHY.
HE MOLDBOARD PLOWED ALL THE TIME AND CHISEL PLOWED.
SO MY GUESS IS IF THERE WAS SOMETHING OUTSIDE OF THAT RING THAT HE LEFT FOR THE LAST 50 YEARS, HE WOULD HAVE TILED STUFF UP.
I'M BETTING THAT THEY'RE ALL INSIDE OF THAT 40 OR 50 FOOT CIRCLE AREA AND I WOULDN'T BE SURPRISED IF THIS REALLY IS JUST TWO OR THREE, AND IT REALLY IS JUST A SIX OR EIGHT FOOT AREA.
AND AS HE PLOWED OVER THE YEARS, THE BRUSH GREW OUT, HE QUIT GETTING CLOSE AND HE JUST STAYED AWAY FROM IT.
>> WELL, I KNOW THE THING IS, IT'S THE BARKER FAMILY.
I UNDERSTAND THAT THERE MIGHT BE SOME AREAS OF THE MOUNT PLYMOUTH COUNTY
>> WE HAVEN'T CONFIRMED WHETHER IT'S THE SAME BARKAS FAMILY, BUT IT'S POSSIBLE.
>> THEY HAD THE SCHOOL OUT THERE OFF THE UNION ROAD, THE BARKAS SCHOOL.
GENE KELLY WAS WRITING A BOOK ABOUT IT WHEN SHE PASSED.
THEY WERE ALL OVER GOLDSBORO AND PART OF RIDGELY.
THEY WERE VERY LEARNED PEOPLE.
OBVIOUSLY, THEY HAD THE ACADEMY THERE.
BUT I GUESS GENE DIDN'T FINISH THAT BOOK, DID SHE?
>> NO, BUT THE SOCIETY, ACTUALLY, JOANNE STAPLES,HAS TAKEN IT UP AND I THINK SHE ACTUALLY COMPLETED AND JOANNE WOULD LIKE TO PAY TO GET IT PRINTED.
>> TELL US WHAT WE CAN DO TO HELP. I MEAN, I'LL HELP.
>> WELL, IS THERE ANYTHING IN THE BOOK ABOUT CEMETERY?
>> SHE'D BE A VALUABLE PERSON TOO.
>> IT SEEMS TO ME WE'VE COVERED THIS PRETTY WELL.
[00:30:04]
>> I THINK WHAT I'M HEARING FROM THE BOARD IS FIGURE OUT WHAT'S THERE FIRST.
>> AND THEN DECIDE ON RECOMMENDATIONS.
>> NOW, IS TOM MOBY ASKING WHAT KIND OF?
>> NO. WE'VE GOT TO CLEAR IT FIRST, SEE WHAT'S THERE.
>> NO, I UNDERSTAND THAT, BUT AFTER THAT, DO YOU WANT TO ACT QUICKLY ON THIS? ARE YOU NOT IN A HURRY? I WAS JUST TRYING TO GET A FEEL.
>> IF WE DO FIND SOMETHING, IT WOULD BE APPROPRIATE TO HAVE ANOTHER MEETING, OR SOMEBODY GO OUT AND LOOK AT IT AND SURVEY THE SITUATION [OVERLAPPING].
>> I'M HAPPY TO GO AHEAD AND LOOK AT IT.
>> I WOULD LIKE TO MAKE ONE, YOU AND I WOULDN'T DO THIS THE LAST TIME.
WHOEVER GOES OUT IS NOT TO DEAL WITH THE OWNER.
NONE. OR MAKING DEALS OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT.
YOU SHOULD BE THE CONTACT, AND I KNOW YOU WON'T HAVE ANYTHING ELSE TO DO.
>> TO BE HONEST, I TRUST THE STAFF TO TAKE PICTURES.
I COULD TELL YOU THAT. IF THE STAFF TAKES PICTURES FINE.
>> THAT'S FINE. BUT IF THE GUY COMES DOWN FROM PENNSYLVANIA
>> WELL, THERE WILL BE ACTIVE POLICE THERE, FROM THE SHERIFF DEPARTMENT.
>> THEY'RE ACTUALLY TAKING THE SEARCH WARRANT AND THEY'RE SERVING IT IN THE SEARCH.
>> AND THEY'LL BE TAKING A LOT OF PICTURES THERE AS WELL.
ONCE THEY UNCOVER SOMETHING, THAT'S WHEN THEY'LL CALL ME AND SAY WHAT WE DO?
>> MAYBE THAT'S WHAT WE'LL WAIT FOR.
ONCE MR. FRANKLIN GETS SOME CONFIRMATION FROM THE SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT ON THEIR INVESTIGATION, WE'LL TAKE A LOOK AT WHAT THEY'VE GOT AND MAYBE TRY TO CONVENE THE BOARD FOR ANOTHER MEETING, AND THEN WE CAN MAKE SOME RECOMMENDATIONS.
BECAUSE AT THAT POINT, WE'LL HAVE PLENTY OF PICTURES THAT YOU GUYS CAN LOOK AT IF YOU STILL FEEL LIKE YOU NEED TO GO OUT BECAUSE THE PICTURES ARE SUFFICIENT, AND MAYBE WE'LL TAKE A BOARD MEMBER OR TWO. MAYBE LEAVE IT AT THAT.
>> MY ONLY CONCERN IS, IF THEY'RE INVOLVED THERE AND IT'S BROKEN, THEN WE'LL HAVE TO DO SOMETHING TO PRESERVE THAT.
THAT'S WHEN YOU GUYS COME IN, BECAUSE YOU GUYS ARE THE EXPERTS, NOT ME.
>> IT WOULD BE A BRICK WOULDN'T IT?
>> YEAH, MORE OR LESS A BIG BRICK.
>> WHAT'S THE PATHWAY IF THERE'S A BROKEN WALL?
>> YES. BUT WHAT DID WE DO AT LEAST AS A TEMPORARY OR SOMETHING?
>> I KNOW THIS SOUNDS REALLY ODD.
I'VE BEEN WITH PEOPLE WHO REALLY PUT THEM IN COOLERS.
>> WELL, I LIKE THE PICNIC IDEA, THANK YOU.
>> RANDY, YOU'RE NOT IN THE BUSINESS OF TRYING TO SALVAGE, REESTABLISH? THE LAST TIME THAT I WAS ACTUALLY PART OF THE MEETING ON THIS GROUP, THE GENTLEMAN, THE GUY FROM BARKLEY OR INGLESIDE OR WHATEVER HIS NAME IS, HE DESCRIBED TO US WHAT HE DID ONE AND I THOUGHT HE DID A CADILLAC OR PHENOMENAL JOB.
WELL, THEY MAKE THEM. OF SAVING EVERY SINGLE THING THAT HE COULD POSSIBLY SEE.
I GUESS HE MOVED ONE AND IN THE PROCESS OF MOVING ONE, SO IN THIS CASE, HE WOULDN'T MOVE IT.
HE SOUNDED LIKE HE WAS THE EXPERT ON EXCAVATING, DIGGING UP, SAVING EVERY PIECE OF WOOD, NAIL, THING THAT HE COULD FIND.
>> IF I WERE TO CALL SOMEBODY TO MOVE SOMETHING, HE IS WHO I WOULD CALL.
>> AND NOT MOVE IT, BUT HE SHOULD BE ABLE TO PRESERVE IT, THAT IF IT'S BUSTED, IF WE WANT TO LEAVE IT THERE, THAT HE SHOULD BE ABLE TO EXCAVATE, DIG UP, WHATEVER YOU WANT TO CALL IT.
PICK UP, FIND THE STUFF THAT'S THERE, AND PUT IT BACK IN A VAULT RIGHT THERE.
>> BRIAN NEVER SAYS NO. HE'LL FIGURE OUT A WAY TO DO IT.
>> YOU WERE AT THAT MEETING WHEN HE WAS CHAIR OF WESTLEY.
ME TOO, I WAS LIKE, WOW, IF HE FOUND A PIECE OF LEATHER LEFT OR WHATEVER, HE SAVED IT, DIDN'T HE?
>> WELL, I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT QUITE THAT LEVEL OF STUFF, I'M TALKING ABOUT WHAT HAPPENS IF THAT BRICK ARCHWAY IS COLLAPSED AND YOU CAN SEE BONES IN THERE, WHICH I'VE SEEN BEFORE.
YOU DON'T WANT TO LEAVE IT KNOWINGLY OPEN TO THE ELEMENTS OR CREATURES OR WHATEVER.
AND I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT THE FULL GAMUT OF TOTAL REPAIR AND ALL THAT BUT ON A TEMPORARY BASIS.
DO YOU JUST GET A BIG SHEET OF PLYWOOD AND WEIGHTED DOWN OVER IT?
>> I THINK IT'S REALLY A CASE TO CASE.
>> I THINK YOU JUST HAVE TO WAIT AND SEE.
>> BUT ONCE IT'S DISCOVERED, SOMETHING YOU [OVERLAPPING].
[00:35:04]
>> IT MAY BE UNTIL YOU GET BRIAN ON THE PHONE, YOU PUT A BIG PIECE OF PLYWOOD OVER TOP OF IT TO COVER IT UP.
>> I GUESS WE'LL HELP YOU IN TOUCH.
>> THANK YOU GUYS FOR YOU TIME.
>> MAYBE WE'LL TALK FROM THERE.
>> I THINK I DON'T WANT TO GET INTO THIS TONIGHT, BUT WE PROBABLY HAVE SOME OTHER THINGS WE'D LIKE TO SPEAK TO YOU ABOUT AT ANOTHER TIME IF YOU'RE AVAILABLE [LAUGHTER].
>> YOU TOO. BE CAREFUL TO TALK.
>> NOW, YOU DON'T HAVE TO LEAVE [LAUGHTER].
>> NO, I GOT TO LEAVE. I GOT A YOUNG ONE AT HOME.
>> WHILE WE'RE ON THIS, NOTHING WITH HIM, BUT THIS IS SOMEWHAT RELATED TO THIS.
AT THE BEGINNING, THIS HAS BEEN A PET PEEVE OF MIND FOR A YEAR.
I'M NOT SURE HOW TO ADDRESS IT.
WE ASK ABOUT THE ADDRESS OF THIS PLACE.
IT DOESN'T HAVE AN ADDRESS BECAUSE THERE'S NO HOUSE.
HISTORY OF THIS, IT WAS LIKE 160 ACRES.
TOM SOLD OFF THE ONE ACRE IN THE MIDDLE OF IT TO BEN SIMPSON, SO THAT HAS THE 911 ADDRESS?
>> I'M IN A PIECE OF PROPERTY WITH A HOUSE.
I WANT TO HAVE FERTILIZER DELIVERED TO IT.
THE FERTILIZER GUY SAYS, TELL ME WHERE IT'S AT.
I DON'T HAVE A 911 ADDRESS TO GIVE THIS TRUCK DRIVER TO GET FERTILIZER TO MY FARM.
THE THING THAT REALLY BOTHERS ME IS IF I'M THERE WORKING UNDER A COMBINED OR A TRACTOR AND I GET HURT AND I CAN GET TO MY CELL PHONE, I CAN'T TELL SOMEBODY WHERE I'M AT.
I ASK CRYSTAL FOR WHICH I FINALLY AFTER ARGUING WITH HER SHE FINALLY GAVE ME A 911 ADDRESS FOR THIS PROPERTY.
BUT IT SHOULD BE JUST A STANDARD THING.
THE ANSWER IS, WELL, BECAUSE THE 911 ADDRESS, IF THE ENTRANCE IS OVER THERE, IT MAY BE 12561, BUT IF IT'S OVER HERE, IT ENDS IN A FIVE OR THREE.
WELL, THAT'S FINE. JUST PICK THE FARM ENTRANCE.
AND IF IT'S A PIECE OF WOODS, THE NEXT THING, I HAVE A PIECE OF WOODS THAT IF I FALL OUT OF A TREE HUNTING AND I CAN'T GET 911 TO ME.
WELL, THERE'S ONLY ONE PLACE THAT I ENTER THIS WOODS BECAUSE THERE'S ONLY ONE ACCESS OFF THE ROAD.
THE COUNTY COULD JUST ASSIGN THE 911 ADDRESS TO THAT POINT.
IN THIS FARM HERE, WITHIN THESE PICTURES, THERE'S TWO POLES OF LINE.
THAT'S WHERE THE GUY ENTERS THE FARM AT ALL THE TIME.
JUST ASSIGN THAT TO BE THE 911 ADDRESS FOR THIS PLACE.
EVERY PIECE OF PROPERTY IN THE COUNTY SHOULD HAVE A 911 ADDRESS.
>>WELL, YEAH. AND THERE ARE SLOTS OF NUMBERS THAT ARE UNASSIGNED FOR FUTURE USE.
>> RIGHT. IF THERE WAS A HOUSE BUILT AT THE END OF THAT DRIVEWAY OR THE CASE OF MY FARM THAT DOESN'T HAVE A HOUSE OR THE WOODS THAT I HAVE, IF I WAS TO BUILD A HOUSE IN THE WOODS, I'D USE THIS DRIVEWAY THAT I'M USING TO ACCESS IT ANYWAY.
AND IF I DIDN'T, IF I MOVED OVER 100 FEET, THEY WOULD JUST GIVE IT A DIFFERENT NUMBER THEN.
HERE'S ANOTHER CASE OF A PIECE OF PROPERTY, SHOULD HAVE A 911 ADDRESS.
I FEEL BETTER I SEND MY PIECE.
>> BECAUSE I HAVE TWO PARCELS OF JUST THE SAME WAY.
>> ANOTHER WHOLE SUBJECT, BUT IT IS RELATED TO THIS.
THIS IS NOT A 911 ADDRESS OR A PIECE OF PROPERTY THAT HAS A CEMETERY ON IT.
>> NO, I GET THAT. YEAH, WE GET THAT QUITE A BIT.
PLENTY OF FARMERS WANT A 911 ADDRESS.
>> IT'S SOMETHING THAT WE DISCUSSED, BUT THAT'S JUST ONE OF THE THINGS.
>> LET'S HOP INTO OPEN MEETINGS ACT TRAINING.
[Open Meetings Act training]
BECAUSE THIS BOARD IS A PUBLIC BOARD AND YOU HAVE MEETINGS THAT ARE OPEN TO THE PUBLIC, YOU ARE SUBJECT TO OPEN MEETINGS ACT.AT LEAST ONE MEMBER ON THIS BOARD HAS TO HAVE THE TRAINING.
YOU HAVE TO BE TRAINED IN OPEN MEETINGS ACT.
I WOULD SUGGEST THAT ALL OF YOU DO IT BECAUSE IF THE ONE MEMBER CAN'T MAKE A MEETING, AND YOU'RE MAKING RECOMMENDATIONS ON SOMETHING AND THEY'RE NOT THERE, TECHNICALLY, THE BOARD WOULD BE IN VIOLATION OF OPEN MEETINGS ACT.
IT'S BEEN SO LONG. I DON'T EVEN REMEMBER HOW LONG IT TAKES.
YOU TOOK THE TRAINING, CORRECT, KATHERINE? HOW LONG DID IT TAKE YOU TO DO IT?
>> YEAH WE DID IT RECENTLY. AND IT'S LESS THAN TWO HOURS [OVERLAPPING].
>> I DID IT LIKE 20 YEARS AGO.
>> WELL, YOU REMEMBER EVERYTHING.
>> I DON'T BELIEVE THAT THEY HAVE CHANGED THE TRAINING.
I'LL VERIFY THAT [OVERLAPPING].
>> IT'S CALLED OPEN BOARDS ACT.
>> IT'S STATE OPEN MEETINGS ACT.
I WILL VERIFY THAT LIKE JIM WHO'S HAD THE OPEN MEETINGS ACT TRAINING.
I'M GOING TO VERIFY THAT NOTHING HAS CHANGED ON.
BECAUSE YES, TECHNICALLY IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE GOOD FOREVER UNLESS THE TRAINING CHANGES.
I'LL VERIFY THAT. BASICALLY, ANYBODY THAT'S AT THE MEETING,
[00:40:02]
NOT JUST A BOARD MEMBER, BUT IF STAFF, YOU'RE GOOD.BUT YOU KNOW IF YOU CAN'T BE HERE.
>> IS IT LIKE STATEOPENMEETINGSINC.COM? THERE IS A LINK WE MADE IT AVAILABLE IN THE PACKAGE.
I KNOW YOU DIDN'T GET A CHANCE TO LOOK AT IT.
I'LL FIND IT. THIS ONE IS THROUGH UNIVERSITY OF MARYLAND, I BELIEVE.
THAT'S DEFINITELY SOMETHING THAT WE'VE GOT TO DO.
I'M GOING TO VERIFY THAT THE TRAINING HASN'T CHANGED SO THAT WAY YOU ALREADY HAVE AT LEAST ONE BOARD MEMBER THAT IS.
BUT YEAH, I WOULD HIGH SUGGEST THAT IF JIM'S NOT HERE THAT SOMEBODY ELSE ON THE BOARD IS ALSO TRAINED.
I GUESS SCHEDULE NEXT MEETING.
OBVIOUSLY, WHAT WE WANTED TO DO WAS,
[Schedule next meeting]
LIKE I SAID, THE BOARD IS SUPPOSED TO CONVENE AT LEAST TWICE A YEAR.I DON'T KNOW IF YOU WANT TO SET UP MORE THAN THAT OR SET UP JUST THOSE TWO MEETINGS AND THEN MEET IN BETWEEN.
LIKE IN THIS CASE, OBVIOUSLY, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO SET UP ANOTHER MEETING PROBABLY TO HAVE SLOAN FOR EKLAND HERE.
THAT'S COMPLETELY UP TO THIS BOARD.
AND THAT'S ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE HAVE TO LOOK AT AS FAR AS OUR RULES OF PROCEDURE.
[Board Rules of Procedure (Required by Caroline County Code of Public Laws § 89-4 B (4))]
KATHERINE HAS BASICALLY TAKEN WHAT WE DO FOR OUR PLANNING COMMISSION AND TAILORED IT TO THIS BOARD.THERE ARE SOME THINGS THAT HAD TO BE REMOVED BECAUSE THAT BOARD DOES PUBLIC HEARINGS FOR THINGS.
THIS BOARD DOESN'T DO THOSE TYPES OF MEETINGS.
THERE ARE THINGS IN THERE THAT FROM A VOTING PERSPECTIVE, YOU FOLLOW JUST LIKE EVERY OTHER BOARD, ROBERT'S RULES ORDER.
THAT'S NOT SOMETHING OR A RECOMMENDATION THAT YOU NECESSARILY HAVE TO DO, BUT BECAUSE WE KNOW THAT THAT FOLLOWS OPEN MEETINGS ACT REQUIREMENTS FOR MAKING DECISIONS, THAT'S THE WAY THAT WE'RE GOING TO JUST CHOOSE FOR THIS BOARD TO FOLLOW.
I DON'T KNOW, YOU SAID, KATHERINE HAD PRINTED OUT THE RULES OF PROCEDURE.
I DON'T KNOW IF YOU WANT TO GO OVER THAT TONIGHT OR SAVE THAT FOR ANOTHER MEETING.
WHAT I WANTED TO DO WAS JUST BRIEFLY TOUCH ON IT JUST SO YOU GUYS ARE AWARE THAT THIS BOARD NEVER HAS HAD A RULES OF PROCEDURE ESTABLISHED, AND WE HAVE TO DO THAT.
IT TELLS ABOUT HOW MANY TIMES YOU CAN SERVE, WHAT MEETINGS ARE REQUIRED, THE TYPES OF THINGS THAT CAN HAPPEN IN MEETINGS.
LIKE I SAID, IT IS AN OPEN MEETING.
THIS DOES GET POSTED ON THE COUNTY WEBSITE.
BECAUSE WE ARE LIVE RIGHT NOW, EVERYTHING GETS RECORDED.
ALL THE AGENDAS THAT WE POST ARE AVAILABLE ONLINE.
THE MEETING ITSELF, YOU COULD BE ONLINE RIGHT NOW WATCHING US HAVE THIS CONVERSATION RIGHT ON THE COUNTY WEBSITE.
AT ANY POINT IN TIME AFTER THIS MEETING ENDS, I THINK IT'S WHAT TWO, THREE HOUR DELAY OR SOMETHING BEFORE YOU CAN ACTUALLY GET ON AND WATCH IT.
I WILL SAY AND I WILL PREFACE THAT BE SURE THAT YOU'RE OKAY WITH THE WORDS THAT ARE GOING TO COME OUT OF YOUR MOUTH IN A MEETING.
USE SOME COMMON SENSE FOR THE MOST PART, AND THERE ARE CERTAIN SITUATIONS WHERE YOU DON'T PARTICULARLY WANT TO PUT A PARTICULAR PERSON ON NOTICE IN A PUBLIC MEETING OR SLAIN OR ANYONE IN ANY WAY.
BUT YES, WE WILL HAVE TRANSCRIPTS FOR MEETINGS. YOU CAN GO ON.
THIS IS THE SAME SOFTWARE THAT OUR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS USE.
OUR OFFICE HAS ONLY BEEN USING IT FOR ABOUT SIX MONTHS.
COMMISSIONERS HAVE BEEN USING IT AUGUST THROUGH SEPTEMBER OF LAST YEAR, SO YOU CAN GO ON AND YOU WATCH EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEIR MEETINGS.
YOU CAN DOWNLOAD THE AGENDA ITEMS. ANYTHING THAT WE DECIDE TO BRING AND PUT ON THE AGENDA WILL BE AVAILABLE TO THE PUBLIC.
OBVIOUSLY, THEY CAN SHOW UP IF THEY WANT AND TYPICALLY HOW OUR PLANNING COMMISSION OPERATES IF PEOPLE DO COME IN.
THEY'RE NOT GIVEN THE RIGHT TO SPEAK.
>> IF SOMEONE HAS TESTIMONY, LIKE WE'RE DISCUSSING TODAY ON THIS ISSUE WITH THE CEMETERY, THIS BOARD CAN DECIDE WHETHER OR NOT TO ALLOW THAT PERSON TO SPEAK OR HOW MUCH TIME THAT YOU'LL GIVE THEM TO SPEAK, WHETHER THEY'RE IN FAVOR OF SOMETHING OR AGAINST IT.
WE ALWAYS WANT TO TRY TO GIVE EQUAL SIDES AN OPPORTUNITY TO SPEAK.
THAT'S SOMETHING THAT'S ALSO IN THE RULES AND PROCEDURES.
IT'S BASIC JUST BECAUSE PLANNING COMMISSION DOESN'T TYPICALLY HAVE PEOPLE SPEAK.
[00:45:07]
THIS BOARD IS VERY SIMILAR IN THAT ASPECT, AS OPPOSED TO SAY, A BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS, WHERE YOU ACTUALLY HAVE AN APPLICATION THAT'S IN FRONT OF YOU THAT PEOPLE ARE TESTIFYING FOR AND YOU DO HAVE OPPOSITION IN CASES WHERE THAT IS.BUT IN THIS SITUATION, YOU'RE PROBABLY NOT GOING TO HAVE THAT.
YOU'LL PROBABLY HAVE MORE PEOPLE SPEAKING IN FAVOR OF YOU MAKING RECOMMENDATIONS.
BUT THERE'S ALWAYS AN OPPORTUNITY FOR SOMEBODY TO SPEAK AGAINST ANYTHING THAT YOU RECOMMEND.
AGAIN, IT'S THEIR RECOMMENDATIONS, THIS BOARD IS POWERS AND DUTIES OF THE BOARD, RESPOND TO COMPLAINTS AND ALLEGED VIOLATIONS.
TYPICALLY, THAT STARTS OUT WITH OUR DEPARTMENT.
WHEN WE GET COMPLAINTS, LIKE IN THIS CASE, MDE CALLED OUR OFFICE DIRECTLY BECAUSE THEY HAD SOME NOTICE OF VIOLATION FOR WETLAND DISTURBANCE, SO THEY INVOLVED US BECAUSE OF THE TREE CLEARING, THEY INVOLVED SOLE CONSERVATION.
THERE ARE MULTIPLE AGENCIES THAT GET INVOLVED, BUT IT WILL START WITH US WHEN WE INFORM YOU THIS BOARD.
OBVIOUSLY, STATE'S ATTORNEY WILL GET INVOLVED IN MANY ASPECTS OF IT JUST BECAUSE WE'RE ALL REQUIRED TO NOTIFY THEM.
ANYTIME THERE IS THE POTENTIAL FOR A COMPLAINT OR A VIOLATION, WE'RE REQUIRED TO CONTACT THE STATE'S ATTORNEY'S OFFICE.
WE'RE REQUIRED TO CALL THE SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT, WE'RE REQUIRED TO CALL THE HEALTH OFFICER.
ROBIN KHA IS AWARE SHE'S BEEN NOTIFIED OF THIS.
THOSE ARE ALL AGENCIES THAT ARE REQUIRED TO BE INVOLVED, NOT JUST YOU GUYS.
THIS BOARD IN ITSELF DOES HAVE A LOT OF KNOWLEDGE FROM WHAT I'VE KNOWN A LOT OF PEOPLE IN THIS ROOM FOR A WHILE, AND I KNOW THAT THE KNOWLEDGE IS THERE, AND I THINK WE HAVE A BOARD SET UP TO WHERE YOU COULD SERIOUSLY GIVE SOME GOOD RECOMMENDATIONS ON ISSUES LIKE WHAT WE'RE HAVING RIGHT NOW.
BUT LATER ON DOWN THE ROAD, AFTER WE GET THROUGH ESTABLISHING OUR RULES OF PROCEDURE, I'D LOVE FOR THIS BOARD TO SIT DOWN AND MAYBE COME UP WITH SOME BASIS GUIDELINES FOR THINGS.
ONE OF THE THINGS IN HERE ABOUT POWERS AND DUTIES OF THE BOARD IS RECOMMEND GUIDELINES FOR BURIAL SLIGHT PROTECTION, MAYBE IT'S ESTABLISHING A EASEMENT AREA, OR YOU GET A SURVEY THAT'S DONE.
MAYBE YOUR STANDARD IS, OKAY, WELL, YOU GET YOUR GROUND PENETRATING RADAR TO ESTABLISH THE AREA AND YOU HAVE IT SURVEYED AND YOU ESTABLISH AN EASEMENT AND IT GETS RECORDED IN LAND RECORDS.
PEOPLE THAT HAVE FAMILY MEMBERS THAT ARE THERE CAN ACTUALLY HAVE THE RIGHT TO ACCESS IT BECAUSE IN MOST OF THESE CASES, THESE CEMETERIES ARE LOCATED OUT IN THE MIDDLE OF A FARM FIELD AND THERE'S JUST NO REAL WAY TO GET TO IT.
YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN? I THINK THAT'S SOMETHING DOWN THE ROAD THAT THIS BOARD CAN REALLY DO.
>> CAN YOU DEFINE A BURIAL SITE?
>> I CAN BY WHAT WE HAVE IN OUR CODE, WHICH IS ANY LAND OR STRUCTURE, INCLUDING ANY NATURAL OR PREPARED PHYSICAL LOCATION, WHETHER ORIGINALLY LOCATED BELOW, AT ON OR ABOVE THE SURFACE OF THE EARTH, USED FOR THE INTERNMENT OF HUMAN REMAINS OR THE DEPOSIT OF FUNERARY OBJECTS, INCLUDING VAULTS, OTHER THAN VAULTS USES COLUMN BARRIER. I DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT IS.
>> COLUMN BARIUM, THAT'S FOR THE STORAGE OF ASHES.
>> THE SPRINKLING OF ASHES OR THEIR BURIAL IN BIODEGRADABLE CONTAINERS OR THEIR PLACEMENT IN A COLUMN BARIUM SHALL NOT CONSTITUTE THE CREATION OF A BURIAL SITE.
THE TERM BURIAL SITE SHALL INCLUDE THIS TERM GRAVEYARD, CEMETERY, BURIAL GROUND, AND BURYING GROUND.
BASICALLY, ANYWHERE WHERE YOU THINK THE HUMAN REMAINS HAVE BEEN PLACED ON IN BELOW, ABOVE THE GROUND COULD BE CONSIDERED A BURIAL SITE.
>> THE REACH OF THAT LAW, WHICH IS A COUNTY OR STATE LAW?
>> THIS IS IN OUR DEFINITION OF WHAT A BURIAL SITE IS.
NOW, QUORUM PROBABLY HAS ITS OWN SEPARATE DEFINITION.
>> ITS REACH TAKES FORMAL CEMETERY.
NOW, HERE'S ONE THING THAT TO KEEP IN MIND THAT THE BOARD HAS IN THE PAST.
WE DO RECEIVE NOTICE WHEN WELL, FROM THE STATES SO THE STATE'S ATTORNEY'S OFFICE GETS NOTIFIED IF SOMEBODY WANTS TO MOVE A GRAVE.
THIS IS WHETHER IT'S ON JIM'S FARM OR IF IT'S THE CEMETERY IN WEST DENTON, WHICH WE GOT ONE FOR YEARS AGO, THAT WE RECEIVED NOTICE THAT, HEY, WE'RE GOING TO MOVE THIS PERSON FROM THIS GRAVE SITE AT THIS CEMETERY TO A CEMETERY IN DELAWARE.
THE BOARD GOT NOTICE OF THAT, BUT THERE'S NO REAL RECOMMENDATIONS THIS BOARD WOULD ACTUALLY MAKE BECAUSE THEY'RE REQUIRED TO GO THROUGH ALL THESE STEPS AS A LICENSED CEMETERY IN THE STATE OF MARYLAND.
BUT YOU STILL RECEIVE NOTICE OF THAT.
EVEN IF IT'S LIKE I SAID, IT'S JUST A MILE FARM FIELD, IT'S LOOKED AT THE SAME WAY AS IT'S A REGULAR CEMETERY THAT'S LICENSED.
>> DO WE HAVE TO HAVE A QUORUM?
>> IF TECHNICALLY, WHEN WE MEET, WE SHOULD HAVE A QUORUM.
[00:50:04]
OBVIOUSLY, I GUESS YOU COULD STILL MEET, BUT YOU COULDN'T REALLY VOTE OR MAKE ANY RECOMMENDATIONS.>> LISTING WITHOUT A QUORUM LISTED IN THE DOCUMENT, I BELIEVE FOR VOTING.
>> QUORUM, SIMPLE MAJORITY OF VOTING MEMBERS ATTENDING A PERSON OR VIRTUALLY MUST BE PRESENT TO CONSTITUTE A MEETING.
ARE THERE ANY OCCASIONS WHEN WE WOULD BE ABLE TO DISPENSE WITH THIS GOING OUT ON THE WEB?
>> YES. I SAID, ARE THERE ANY OCCASIONS WHEN WE CAN DO AWAY WITH THE GOING OUT ON THE WEB.
>> HOW WE'VE DONE BEFORE, WHICH OBVIOUSLY, IF WE NEED LEGAL COUNSEL HERE, WE'LL HAVE OUR ATTORNEY HERE, MR. BARREL, BUT YOU CAN CLOSE THE OPEN MEETING AND HAVE A LEGAL DISCUSSION WITH THE COUNTY ATTORNEY AND NOT BE IN VIOLATION OF OPEN MEETINGS ACT.
THEN WHEN THAT DISCUSSION HAPPENS, YOU CAN OPEN IT BACK UP AT A OPEN MEETING AND THAT INFORMATION IS PROPRIETARY THAT'S HELD IN THAT MEETING.
>> DOES THAT HAVE TO INCLUDE A LIT? I MEANT, GOING TO VOTE ON POSSIBLE CRIMINAL PROSECUTION OF SOMEBODY.
I DON'T KNOW THAT NECESSARILY WHAT THAT GO OUT ON THE WEB AD.
>> I DON'T THINK WE WOULD CRIMINALLY PROSECUTE ANYBODY.
>> THIS, BUT WE RECOMMEND TO THE STATE'S ATTORNEY TO THE PLANNING AND ZONING, WE VOTE AND WE RECOMMEND WHETHER TO PROSECUTE OR NOT.
>> BUT THAT WOULD BE BASED UPON RECOMMENDATIONS FROM HIS INVESTIGATION.
>> SOME MIGHT VOTE LIKE ARBITRARILY.
>> NO. WE DON'T DO IT ARBITRARILY, BUT THAT IS PART OF OUR JOB.
ONCE WE'RE PRESENTED WITH THE INFORMATION IS TO VOTE WHETHER WE THINK A VIOLATION OF EITHER COMMON OR THE COUNTY CODE HAS OCCURRED AND THAT IT SHOULD BE PROSECUTED.
THEY DECIDE THE FINAL POINTS OF THE PROSECUTION.
>> RECOMMENDATION LIKE THAT I DON'T WITHOUT HAVING LEGAL COUNSEL HERE BECAUSE I'M NOT COMPLETELY FAMILIAR WITH HOW DISCUSSIONS IN A CLOSED SESSION WOULD WORK.
I THINK IF YOU HAVE TO GO INTO A CLOSED SESSION TO MAKE A RECOMMENDATION, BUT YOU NEED LEGAL ADVICE, THEN THAT IS MORE THAN LIKELY GOING TO HAVE TO COME OUT AS PUBLIC INFORMATION.
ANY DISCUSSION THAT YOU HAVE ABOUT SAID RECOMMENDATION IN A ROOM WITH THE COUNTY ATTORNEY IS AN OFFLINE CONVERSATION, BUT IF YOU'RE HAVING A CONVERSATION WITH THE COUNTY ATTORNEYS BECAUSE YOU'RE GOING TO MAKE A RECOMMENDATION THAT'S GOING TO BE MADE PUBLIC. YOU KNOW WHAT I'M SAYING?
>> IN THE PAST, WE HAVE MORE THAN THE COUNTY ATTORNEYS.
>> CONVERSATIONS IN A CLOSED MEETING ARE NOT MADE PUBLIC.
NOW, US, IF WE HAD STORE BARROW HERE TODAY, AND YOU WERE GOING TO MAKE A RECOMMENDATION FOR SOMETHING, BUT YOU WANTED TO HAVE A CONVERSATION.
WE'D HAVE THAT DISCUSSION WITH STEWART, AND HE WOULD MAKE HIS RECOMMENDATION ON WHAT HE SEES LEGALLY, WHICH YOU CAN DO AS A BOARD.
GIVE YOU THAT INFORMATION AND THEN WHEN WE COME BACK IN, STAFF ACTUALLY HAS TO PROVIDE A SUMMARY OF WHAT THAT CONVERSATION WAS, BUT NOT THE ACTUAL DETAILS.
THE SUMMARY, JUST LIKE IN THE COUNTY COMMISSIONERS IN A CLOSED SESSION, WHEN THEY GO TO CLOSED SESSION, THE INFORMATION THAT THEY DISCUSS IN THERE IS JUST A SUMMARY.
BECAUSE IT'S OTHERWISE YOU'D BE IN OPEN MEETINGS ACT VIOLATION.
NOW, YOU DON'T HAVE TO KNOW EVERY SINGLE DETAIL, BUT THERE IS A SUMMARY THAT'S INVOLVED WITH THAT.
BUT THE WHOLE REASON FOR GOING INTO THAT IS BECAUSE YOU WANT TO MAKE A RECOMMENDATION, BUT YOU WANT TO MAKE SURE IT'S LEGAL.
OBVIOUSLY, THAT RECOMMENDATION IS STILL GOING TO COME OUT.
>> WELL, IT'S ALSO PRIVATE IF IT'S A PERSONNEL MATTER.
WE WOULD NOT BE DOING THAT OF COURSE.
>> TWO QUESTIONS SORT OF RELATED.
[Open discussion]
FIRST OFF, IS THERE A BUDGET FOR THIS BOARD?>> I CAN CERTAINLY FIND THAT OUT FOR YOU.
>> REASON I'M ASKING IS IT SAYS THE OBJECTIVE IS TO FOSTER THE PROTECTION AND PRESERVATION OF BURIAL SITES, CEMETERIES, BURIAL GROUNDS FOR ANY OBJECTS, LABS AND THE UNINCORPORATED PARTS OF THE COUNTY.
WHAT IF THERE ARE DISTRESSED CEMETERY AND IT NEEDS SOME ASSISTANCE, YOU'RE TRYING TO COORDINATE SOMEBODY TO HELP WITH THAT BURIAL GROUND? I KNOW OF ONE, FOR EXAMPLE, AND PEOPLE SAID, WHAT DO YOU DO? I SAID, I DON'T KNOW RIGHT NOW,
[00:55:01]
BUT I'LL TRY TO FIND OUT WHAT WHAT IS AVAILABLE, IF ANYTHING, IS AVAILABLE AND SECOND OPTION B, WELL, IF WE'RE SUPPOSED TO FOSTER THE PROTECTION AND PRESERVATION OF BURIAL SITES, LETTING THEM CONTINUE TO BE NEGLECTED IS NOT FULFILLING THAT MISSION.I REALIZE CAROLINE COUNTY IS NOT RUNNING OVER WITH CASH.
>> BUT AT THE SAME TIME, I THINK YOU HAVE TO HAVE SOME WAY TO EITHER RAISE FUNDING OR SOMETHING FOR THESE BURIAL SITES, IF YOU'RE GOING TO DO THAT.
>> THAT'S A IT'S A VALID POINT.
>> BACK TO WHAT MR. MOORE SAID EARLIER, IF IT WAS DONE TODAY, THE LAND OWNER WOULD HAVE TO PUT MONEY INTO AN ACCOUNT TO A AND ESCROW OR A TRUST FUND.
>> THEN I GUESS WHAT I WOULD GO BACK TO THEN 150 YEARS AGO, THAT WASN'T THE LAW, THEY DIDN'T DO IT, BUT I THINK IT WOULD BE FAIR TO GO TO THE FAMILY MEMBERS OF THE IF ANYBODY IF THERE'S NOBODY OUT THERE THAT CARES ABOUT RESTORING IT, THEN I'M NOT SURE THAT I'M REALLY WORRIED ABOUT IT, BUT IF THERE'S A FAMILY THAT CARES THAT VISITS IT, THEN I WOULD THINK THAT THAT'S WHO YOU WOULD GO TO TO HELP OFF SET OR PAY THE COST.
BECAUSE IF IF THE WALL THAT'S IN EXISTENCE NOW WAS IN EXISTENCE THEN, THEY WOULD HAVE PUT MONEY INTO IT THEN TO TAKE CARE OF IT NOW.
>> I CAN TELL YOU FROM MANAGING TWO CEMETERIES FOR A CHURCH, THAT ONCE YOU GET ASKED ABOUT THE THIRD GENERATION OF DESCENDANTS, THERE IS NO CONNECTION WHATSOEVER.
>> EVEN IN A FORMAL CEMETERY AND I MEAN, AND I'VE DEALT WITH A TRUST SITUATION TOO. IT'S A NIGHTMARE.
YOUR BEST HOPE IS TO HAVE THE CEMETERY ATTACHED SOMEHOW TO AN ONGOING ORGANIZATION LIKE A CHURCH.
ALTHOUGH THE CHURCHES DON'T NECESSARILY FEEL THAT WAY, THEY'RE TRYING TO SPIN THEM OFF.
BUT YOU'RE ON A HIDING TO NOTHING TRYING TO GET DESCENDANTS TO CARE ABOUT SOMEBODY EVEN ASK GRANDMA, GRANDPA.
IF YOU HAVE SOMEONE IN A BANK THAT IS FAMILIAR WITH IT, THEY'LL MAKE SURE IT GETS TAKEN CARE OF.
BUT ONCE THAT PERSON IS GONE, WILL THE NEXT TRUST OFFICER THEY KNOW THE BANKS CHANGE HANDS ALL THE TIME, TRUST FUNDS DISAPPEAR.
>> I HAVE LITERALLY JUST BEEN THROUGH THIS, MR. MOORE.
>> I'M UNFORTUNATELY VERY FAVOR WITH AND HAD TO GO TO COURT TO TESTIFY.
>> IT'S A DIFFICULT SITUATION.
>> THE ONE THAT I HAVE THAT WHEN I BOUGHT THE PLACE, THERE WERE STONES THAT WERE BROKEN, I LIQUID NAILED THEM BACK TOGETHER, PUT REBAR ANGLIR IN THE BACK ON THEM, TRY TO HOLD THEM TOGETHER, BUT I DIDN'T NEVER WENT TO ASK ANYBODY AND I DON'T EVEN KNOW THE PEOPLE.
DON'T KNOW ANYBODY THAT KNOWS THE PEOPLE, BUT I JUST THOUGHT IT'S A RIGHT THING TO DO, AND I DIDN'T WANT TO BE THE ONE THAT WAS IF THERE'S SPIRITS OUT THERE, THEY WEREN'T COMING TO GET ME.
ASK YOURSELF A REAL BASIC QUESTION.
WHO OWNS THE GRAVE OF A DEAD PERSON?
>> RIGHT. THEY'RE DESCENDANTS.
>> THEY DON'T. YES. BUT JOE SMITH HAD TWO KIDS.
ON AND ON AND ON, I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE GEOMETRIC PROGRESSION OF THAT IS, BUT BY THE TIME YOU GET 100 YEARS IN THE FUTURE, YOU'VE NOW GOT WHAT I HAVE.
>> ONE HUNDRED AND TWENTY EIGHT OR WHATEVER?
>> WELL, I THINK IT'S SOMETHING THAT IN MARYLAND, PROBATE KIND OF WINKS HIS EYE AT BECAUSE AS YOU SAY, IT'S A DIFFICULT SITUATION.
>> HERE'S ANOTHER SCENARIO YOU GET INTO.
WHAT IF YOU HAVE TWO FACTIONS WITHIN THAT GROUP OF 5,000 PEOPLE? [OVERLAPPING] I HAD DIFFERING OPINIONS ABOUT GREAT GRANDMA, GREAT GRANDDAD, AND HOW THEIR PLOT SHOULD BE TREATED.
>> THEN YOU HAVE TO ALLOW ACCESS.
THE CURRENT PROPERTY OWNER HAS TO ALLOW ACCESS TO THAT CEMETERY?
>> I MEAN, THEY HAVE TO ALLOW BUT THEY HAVE NO CHOICE IN THE MATTER.
>> YEAH. IT HAS TO BE A MUTUALLY AGREED UPON TIME AND ALL THAT, SO IT CAN BE A REAL PAIN. YEAH.
>> ERIC IS FOLKS DOWN TO FELLS BURG, THE MUHAMMAS, THEY OWNED A PIECE OF PROPERTY.
THE RUNNELS LADY, THEY HAD RELATIVES THERE WHEN THEY WENT AND GOT THEIR OWN CEMETERY.
[01:00:06]
THEY HAD TO GRANT THEM PASSAGEN TO TAKE CARE OF THE, AND WHILE I KNOW, THEY THEY HAD ALWAYS DONE IT.NOT NANCY RUNNELS. HER MOTHER.
SUSAN. THEY'D ALWAYS GONE UP THERE AND TRY TO KEEP HIS GREAT GREAT GRANDPARENTS OR SOMETHING.
>> WHAT ABOUT THE CASE WITH THE TOMBSTONE THAT WAS COVERED BY THE BOAT?
>> I MEAN, DAVID AND I HAVE THE SITUATION.
THE CHEESAN, DAVID'S GRANDMOTHER, I THINK IS CHEESAN.
>> WE'RE STILL LIKE FOURTH COUSINS OR SOMETHING.
[OVERLAPPING]. I MEAN, HIS FAMILY HAS THAT SITUATION WITH THE CEMETERY WHERE THE FARM CHANGED HANDS AND THEY'VE DONE A VERY GOOD JOB, [OVERLAPPING].
YEAH. YOU CANNOT JUST WALK UP ON SOMEONE'S PROPERTY AND EXPECT TO HAVE ACCESS BECAUSE THAT'S A GOOD WAY OF GETTING SHOT.
>> [OVERLAPPING] WHAT I WAS REALLY GETTING AT IS EVEN IN A FORMAL CEMETERY SETTING WHERE YOU HAVE A COVER GATES, WHATEVER, BRICK ENTRANCE TO YOUR CEMETERY.
WE THINK OF THINK OF THE CEMETERY.
GO IN THE CEMETERY AND YOU CAN ENCOUNTER RADICALLY DIFFERENT VIEWS OF WHAT THE DISPOSITION OF MOM AND DAD'S GRAVE SHOULD BE OR REALLY THAT DOESN'T HAPPEN UNTIL THE THIRD OR FOURTH GENERATION.
IF THEY CARE. IF THEY DON'T CARE, THEN THE CEMETERY OWNS GREAT GRANDMA AND GREAT GRANDDAD.
WE'RE ON REAL UNCERTAIN GROUND WITH SOME OF THIS STUFF BECAUSE THE REALITY IS, I'M GOING TO SAY THIS ON THE RECORD.
THE THIRD OR FOURTH, FIFTH GENERATION DO NOT CARE AS A GENERAL. THEY DO NOT CARE.
THEY ARE MORE THAN HAPPY TO LET SOMEONE ELSE PICK UP A TAB FOR MANAGING GREAT GRANDMAM AND GREAT GRANDDAD.
THEN SO NOW WE COME BACK TO THIS SITUATION.
WHERE THIS POOR LITTLE 5-YEAR-OLD CHILD PUTATIVELY WHO IS BURIED UNDER A PILE OF TREES AT THIS POINT.
THERE'S I MEAN, FINDING SOMEONE THAT CARES IN STEP 1.
I MEAN, WE SORT OF HAVE TO CARE, RIGHT?
>> WELL, YEAH, THAT'S ONE OF THE REASONS WE'RE HERE.
>> WE DO NOT HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO CARE THAT MUCH.
YOU CAN'T FORCE PEOPLE TO DO TO CARE.
>> NO. I THINK OUR JOB IS PRIMARILY TO KEEP FROM BEING DESPOILED.
>> WELL, ERIC IT'S EVEN WORSE BECAUSE I THINK YOU HAVE SECOND, THIRD, FOURTH, FIFTH GENERATIONS NOW.
IT'S NOT THAT THEY DON'T CARE.
IT'S THAT THEY CARE THE OTHER WAY THAT THEY THINK IT WAS HORRIBLE THAT YOU EVEN TOOK UP A CHUNK OF LAND TO PUT GREAT GREAT GREAT GRANDMA AND POP UP IN, AND THEY SHOULD BE DUG UP CREMATED AND IT SHOULD GO BACK TO NATURE [LAUGHTER].
>> YEAH. THERE'S SOME OF THAT. I'VE NOT ENCOUNTERED THAT SITUATION CORRECTLY.
>> NO. I THINK THAT THE PROBLEM OF THERE'S THE DUAL PROBLEM.
THE PROBLEM IS THEY DON'T CARE AND THEY DON'T KNOW.
I MEAN, REALLY, ONCE YOU GET THE WE CAN TELL YOU THIS TOO IN GENEALOGY LAND? NO. PEOPLE JUST ONCE YOU GET PAST THAT THIRD OR FOURTH GENERATION, THERE'S NO KNOWLEDGE.
I CAN TELL YOU, KIDS THESE DAYS, 20-YEAR-OLD KIDS DO NOT KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THEIR, THEY DON'T EVEN KNOW THEIR PARENTS.
>> PARTICULARS LET ALONE MY GRANDPARENTS AND GREAT GRANDPARENTS.
THERE'S A BIG CHUNK OF WORK WE'RE CUTTING OUT FOR OURSELVES HERE, AND WE NEED TO BE REAL CAREFUL ABOUT EXACTLY WHAT WE WANT TO DO BECAUSE WE CAN'T DO IT AT ALL.
>> DO WE NEED TO MAKE A MOTION TWO MEETINGS A YEAR?
>> [OVERLAPPING]. AT A MINIMUM, TWO MEETINGS A YEAR, OBVIOUSLY, THIS IS THE FIRST ONE.
IS THAT HOW YOU WOULD LIKE TO OPERATE AND INCLUDE AS NEEDED MEETINGS IN BETWEEN?
>> WELL, I THINK DEPENDING ON WHAT HAPPENS FRIDAY, YOU MAY NEED TO HAVE IF SOME DISCOVERED, WE SHOULD HAVE TO MEET AGAIN A FAIRLY SHORT ORDER.
>> WHY DON'T WE, I THINK LET'S STICK WITH THE TWO THAT'S REQUIRED MINIMUM AS CODE,
[01:05:06]
THE TWO PER YEAR, AND THEN MEET ON AS NEEDED BASIS.IN A SITUATION WHERE YOU HAVE AN ISSUE LIKE THIS, WE CAN CALL A MEETING AT ANY POINT IN TIME WHEN WE AT LEAST CAN GET A QUORUM.
MY THOUGHT WOULD BE SINCE WE'RE IN APRIL, TWO PER YEAR, JUST DO IT SIX MONTHS FROM NOW, SO OCTOBER.
>> THEN IF WE HAVE TO CALL AN EMERGENCY MEETING FOR SOMETHING.
>> THE EMERGENCY MEETING HOW EMERGENCY DID THEY NEED TO BE.
CAN WE JUST HOLD LIKE THE FOURTH TUESDAY FOR MEETING?
>> CAN WE WAIT SO THEY'RE GOING TO GO OUT THERE FRIDAY.
IS IT NOT APPROPRIATE TO WAIT UNTIL THE NEXT FOURTH TUESDAY WHICH IS A MONTH FROM NOW.
I'D ALMOST RATHER GO AND STICK ON MY CALENDAR OR THE FOURTH TUESDAY.
>> THEN IF THERE'S NO MEETING, NO NEED, WE DON'T HAVE A MEETING, WE JUST DON'T DO IT.
BUT AT LEAST THAT'S GOING TO BE THE DAY THAT I'M GOING TO HOLD FOR THE NEXT THREE YEARS, SUES GOING TO BE THE FOURTH TUESDAY [OVERLAPPING], WE HAVE ONE WASN'T.
DOES SUE ALWAYS HAVE A CONFLICT ON THE FOURTH TUESDAY?
>> NO. THIS WAS SOMETHING THAT JUST CAME UP. [OVERLAPPING]
>> YEAH. WE ALREADY KIND OF SET THAT UP IN THE RULES OF PROCEDURE, ANYWAY.
JUST BECAUSE IT WAS EASY, AND SINCE WE ALREADY HAD A THIRD TUESDAY THAT WAS TAKEN UP FOR BZA, WE GOT, A WEDNESDAY FOR PLANNING COMMISSION, SO YEAH, WHAT WE'LL DO IS-
>> WE HAVE MULTIPLE MEETINGS [INAUDIBLE] BEFORE TUESDAY WAS AVAILABLE FOR US.
>> YEAH. CAN I GET A MOTION [LAUGHTER]?
>> ALL RIGHT. WE'RE GOING TO HAVE THE FOURTH TUESDAY OF EVERY MONTH HELD FOR A MEETING.
OUR NEXT REGULARLY SCHEDULED MEETING WILL BE IN SIX MONTHS.
WHATEVER THE FOURTH TUESDAY AND OCTOBER WILL BE THE NEXT REGULAR SCHEDULED MEETINGS.
>> ONE OF THIS IS NOT HALLOWEEN, RIGHT [LAUGHTER]?
>> I'LL BE TRIGGER TRAINING ABOUT THIS.
>> IT'S CHRIS JENSEN'S BIRTHDAY, WE CAN'T DO THAT.
>> ALL RIGHT. OBVIOUSLY, WE'VE COVERED EVERYTHING THAT WE'VE WANTED TO COVER TONIGHT.
IS THERE ANYTHING THAT THIS BOARD IN PARTICULAR, BESIDES THE ISSUE WITH THIS GRAVE SITE THAT WE'VE TALKED ABOUT TONIGHT, IS THERE ANYTHING THAT YOU WOULD LIKE TO WORK ON? OBVIOUSLY, WE'RE GOING TO PULL UP THE BOARD RULES OF PROCEDURES AT THE NEXT MEETING.
PROBABLY, WE CAN JUST SEND IT OUT TO YOU NOW AND YOU CAN TAKE A LOOK AT IT.
IF THERE'S ANY RECOMMENDATIONS THAT YOU FEEL SHOULD BE MADE TO THOSE.
MAYBE WE CAN DISCUSS THAT AT THE NEXT MEETING AND ACTUALLY ADOPT THOSE RULES AND PROCEDURES.
BUT IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE THAT THIS BOARD WOULD LIKE TO CONSIDER FOR AN AGENDA ITEM?
>> WHATEVER HAPPENED WITH THE SITUATION.
>> I DON'T KNOW. THAT'S SOMETHING I HAVE TO FIND OUT.
I'M NOT SURE WHATEVER HAPPENED WITH THE INVESTIGATION FOR THAT.
HEATHER DID A DEAL WITH IT. I MEAN, NO.
>> OUR ATTORNEY TOLD ME NOT TO GO INTO THE COURT ROOM.
>> THAT'S RIGHT. SHE IS THE JUDGE NOW.
>> WITHIN SIX MONTHS, HE WAS GOING TO TAKE CARE OF EVERYTHING AND WAS GOING TO WORK WITH RANDY AND THE PRESTON HYSTERICAL SOCIETY.
>> THERE WAS A CEMETERY BACK BEHIND THE BETHEL POST OFFICE.
THE OWNER OF THE PROPERTY HAD REMOVED SOME HEADSTONES.
THERE WAS AN INVESTIGATION THAT TOOK PLACE WITH THE SHERIFF'S OFFICE, AND THIS BOARD WAS INVOLVED IN DOING A SITE VISIT, BUT I DON'T RECALL WHAT HAPPENED AFTER THAT.
AS FAR AS THE INVESTIGATION, WHAT WAS REQUIRED TO BE DONE?
>> BOARD VOTED TO THE VIOLATIONS HAD OCCURRED.
PROSECUTION EITHER UNDER COMAR OR THE COUNTY ORDINANCE.
HE WAS SUBPOENAED TO APPEAR IN THE COURT, HE DID APPEAR IN COURT.
I WAS NOT ALLOWED IN THE COURT ROOM.
HEATHER HAD THE CASE HELD IN ABEYANCE.
HE SIGNED THE AGREEMENT TO RESTORE EVERYTHING IN SIX MONTHS.
HE SAID HE WOULD WORK WITH RANDY, AND HE WOULD WORK WITH THE PRESTON HISTORICAL SOCIETY.
[01:10:03]
AT THE END OF SIX MONTHS WHEN MY TERM WAS OVER, HEATHER CONTACTED ME AND SAID, WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO NOW? I TOLD HER NOT TO DO WHAT SHE DID IN COURT.>> IS THERE ANY PAPERWORK RELATED TO THAT WHOLE PRISE YOU JUST DESCRIBED?
>> I'M SURE THERE'S SOME PAPERWORK BECAUSE THERE WAS AN INVESTIGATION FROM THE SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT.
>> COULD IT BE POSSIBLE WE GET A COPY OF THAT?
>> SURE, WE CAN. DO YOU REMEMBER WHAT YEAR THAT WAS? NOW, I SAY THAT BECAUSE MOST OF THE OFFICES UNDER CAROLINE COUNTY HAVE RETENTION RECORDS THAT THEY'VE BEEN WORKING ON.
MOST OF THEM FALL AROUND SEVEN YEARS.
>> I TURNED MY RECORDS OVER TO I'M SORRY.
I DON'T REMEMBER IF IT WAS [OVERLAPPING].
>> BEFORE I STARTED, DOES THAT REMAIN OPEN I REMEMBER WHAT YEAR ONLY MEETING I WENT TO IS WHEN GRAVEL PIT.
THE GUY HE WAS GETTING TIRED SPIN ON HIS HEELS FROM SELF.
>> IN FACT, I THINK THAT'S HOW I GOT CONNECTED TO THIS ORIGINALLY, BUT THEN WE NEVER MET.
>> COVID PROVIDENT LOST SOME MONEY OF MINE AT COVID.
>> I'M NOT SURE I REALLY WANT TO GO ON RECORD TALKING ABOUT IT AT THIS POINT IN TIME.
>> OKAY. YOU WILL GET US COPIES OF COMAR AND [OVERLAPPING] PLEASE. THANK YOU.
>> WE WILL FIND ALL APPLICABLE LAWS AND REGULATIONS REGARDING [NOISE] WHICH KATHERINE HAS ALREADY [NOISE] BEEN COMPILING ANYWAY.
WELL, I THINK WE'VE GOT A LITTLE BIT TO GO ON, AND LIKE I SAID, ONCE WE GET SOME INFO BACK FROM STATE'S ATTORNEY FROM MR. SLOAN, WE'LL TRY TO CONVENE ANOTHER MEETING.
>> ARE WE OBLIGED TO USE THIS E MAIL FOR A START?
>> SUPPOSED TO USE THE COUNTY E MAILS, YES.
EVERY BOARD MEMBER ON EVERY BOARD HAS A COUNTY E MAIL, AND THAT'S HOW THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO GET NOTICES FOR THINGS.
>> NOW, WE CAN SET UP OTHER MEANS OF NOTICES, LIKE JIM SAID WITH TEXT MESSAGES.
WE'VE DONE TEXT MESSAGE REMINDERS FOR PEOPLE, BUT THE WAY WE'VE SENT OUT PACKAGES HAVE EITHER BEEN THROUGH MICROSOFT TEAMS OR THROUGH THE COUNTY E MAIL.
>> DO YOU KNOW THE TERM LAVECK? [LAUGHTER]
>> WELL, IF YOU'RE HAVING SOME TECHNICAL DIFFICULTIES, THEN WE'LL HAVE IT HERE AT THE NEXT MEETING TO MAKE SURE THAT YOUR COUNTY E MAILS ARE WORKING PROPERLY.
>> [LAUGHTER] YOU'LL HAVE TO GET DENNIS OUT OF BIKES WHEN HE'S NOT WORKING ON THERE DRIVING TRUCKS FOR PRESS.
ALL RIGHT, SO [NOISE] WE HAVE A MOTION TO ADJOURN?
>> EVERYBODY. AGAIN, APPRECIATE IT. [NOISE]
* This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.