Sep 11, 2024 Planning Commission

AM I READY? YES.

[00:00:02]

GOOD EVENING, AND WELCOME TO THE SEPTEMBER SEPTEMBER 2024 MEETING OF THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION.

[Opening]

CRYSTAL. CRYSTAL DADDS.

LESLIE. LESLIE.

GRUNDEN IN THE BACK.

CATHERINE MCCULLEY, OUR ATTORNEY, SCOTT BARROW, IS HERE.

STEWART. I'M SORRY.

STEWART IS HERE.

YOU GOT ME. I'M FORGETTING NAMES NOW.

COMMISSIONER BARTZ COUNTY COMMISSIONER BARTZ IS SITTING UP HERE TONIGHT.

HANNAH CAWLEY, COMMISSION MEMBER HANNAH CAWLEY IS HERE, AND ROGER MCKNIGHT, MEMBER ROGER MCKNIGHT IS HERE.

AND MYSELF, JEFF JACKSON.

SO THAT'S THE MEMBERS WE HAVE NOTHING TO GO THROUGH.

THE FIRST THING ON THE AGENDA TONIGHT IS [INAUDIBLE] WE HAVE A PRELIMINARY SITE PLAN APPROVAL.

[Planning Commission Review and Comment: • Caroline Materials LLC – Preliminary Site Plan Application, Major Mineral Extraction ]

SO I KNOW YOU ALL ARE HERE.

WE. EVERYBODY'S GOT IT IN THEIR PACKAGE.

NOW, BEFORE WE GET STARTED.

COMMISSIONER BARTZ AND ROGER.

WHEN WE GOT OUR PACKAGE, WE GOT OUR PACKAGE HAD ALL THIS MATERIAL IN IT FOR THIS, FOR THIS SITE PLAN.

I WENT OUT TO AS I WAS COMING HOME ONE DAY, I STOPPED BY THE SITE OUT ON HARMONY ROAD, LOOKED AT THE THE BUFFER AND LOOKING AT THE BUFFER AND THE SETBACKS THAT THEY'RE REQUESTING AND EVERYTHING.

AND MONDAY I STOPPED UP TO BREEDING EXCAVATION TALK TO MR. BREEDING, WHO IS THE APPLICANT, AND I WAS JUST ASKING HIM FOR SOME CLARIFICATION ON WHAT I WAS SEEING.

HIS APPLICANT. HIS APPLICATION WAS.

IT APPEARED TO ME TO BE JUST HE WAS ASKING TO FOR A WAIVER TO GO WITHIN THE 200 FOOT BUFFER ZONE THAT WE THAT THE COUNTY HAS ESTABLISHED.

AND OTHER THAN THAT, I WAS HE WASN'T ASKING TO CHANGE ANYTHING ELSE, ANY OTHER CONDITIONS OF THE SITE.

AND I WAS JUST CLARIFYING THAT WITH HIM, WE BRIEFLY TALKED ABOUT THIS HIS APPLICATION AND WHAT HE WAS PUTTING IT IN FOR, AND IT WAS TO GO WITHIN THE 200 FOOT SETBACK.

THAT'S WHAT WE TALKED ABOUT.

I FOUND OUT THAT I PROBABLY SHOULDN'T HAVE WENT OUT THERE AND TALKED TO HIM, BECAUSE HE IS THE APPLICANT, AND I'M JUST TELLING YOU ALL THAT.

I DID TALK TO HIM.

AND YOU CAN MAKE YOUR COMMENTS NOW.

WELL, I GUESS WELL GUESS ONE THING JEFF I WOULD LIKE TO ASK IS DID YOU INTENTIONALLY GO OUT THERE TO SEE MR. BREEDING? IT WASN'T INTENTIONAL OR.

YEAH, I STOPPED OUT TO THE SITE OR OUT TO BUSINESS TO SEE.

OKAY. AND ASKED TO SEE.

OKAY. GOTCHA.

OKAY. GOTCHA.

NOT WHEN I JUST HAPPENED TO BE RIDING BY THE SITE WHEN I STOPPED BY THE SITE.

BUT, I MEAN, NOBODY'S EVER TOLD YOU.

HAS ANYBODY TOLD YOU PRIOR TO BEFORE TO, YOU KNOW, NOT TO ENGAGE IN THIS TYPE OF ACTIVITY? PROBABLY IN SOME OF OUR STUFF THAT WE'VE DONE.

OKAY. AND I JUST YEAH, I HAD A BRAIN FART I GUESS, ON MONDAY.

GOTCHA. ALL RIGHT.

BUT I JUST MY MY THING IN TALKING TO MR. BREEDING WAS JUST CLARIFICATION BECAUSE I HAD ALL THIS PACKAGE THAT HE'S PUTTING IN AND AM I CORRECT TO SAY YOU JUST WANT TO GO [INAUDIBLE] NO CHANGE IN DESIGN.

THAT WAS ALL.

WELL, TO ADD TO THAT, I AM GOING TO RECUSE MYSELF FROM THE VOTE AND THE ITEM ON THE AGENDA JUST DUE TO THE RELATIONSHIP TO THE APPLICANT.

SO THAT'S ON THE RECORD.

OKAY. SO WE'RE DOWN TO THREE.

OKAY. IS EVERYBODY EVERYBODY'S GOT THE SITE PLAN.

AND AGAIN, FROM MY READING THE APPLICATION.

THE ONLY THING THAT THEY'RE ASKING FOR IS TO GO IN THE 200 FOOT BUFFER.

CORRECT. SO IF YOU'D LIKE TO PROCEED AND LET MATT GO AHEAD AND PRESENT THE STAFF REPORT.

[00:05:04]

ALL RIGHT, SO THE APPLICANT, CAROLINE MATERIALS LLC, HAS SUBMITTED A MAJOR SITE PLAN APPLICATION FOR A MINERAL EXTRACTION FACILITY.

IT'S LOCATED AT 8650 HARMONY ROAD IN DENTON.

FURTHER DESCRIBED AS TAX MAP 37, GRID 4 PARCEL 31.

THE APPLICATION IS AN EXPANSION OF EXISTING GRAVEL PIT.

THE EXPANSION ITSELF IS ROUGHLY 14.99 ACRES, WHICH WILL BRING THE TOTAL OPERATION TO ABOUT 93.26 ACRES.

CURRENT OPERATION, AS FAR AS WE KNOW, HAS BEEN IN EXISTENCE SINCE THE 60S.

WELL BEFORE SURFACE MINING PERMITS WERE EVEN REQUIRED FROM MD, WHICH WAS STATE LAW WAS PASSED IN 1977.

SO THE FIRST MINING AND MINING PERMIT THAT WE'RE AWARE OF IS FROM JANUARY 26TH OF 1978.

SO THE MOST RECENT BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS, SPECIAL USE APPROVAL FOR THE MOST RECENT EXPANSION WAS IN 2005.

THOSE CONDITIONS OF APPROVAL ARE ALL LISTED WITHIN THE PLAN SET THAT LANE ENGINEERING HAS PREPARED, THAT'S SHEET G 102.

SO OF THOSE PROPOSED PLANS, THE THE ONLY I HAVE A FEW COMMENTS HERE LISTED AT THE BOTTOM.

ONE OF THOSE DEALS SPECIFICALLY WITH THE 200 FOOT SETBACK.

175 27.5 OF PUBLIC LOCALS ALL OF CAROLINE COUNTY DEALS SPECIFICALLY WITH THE 200 FOOT SETBACK REQUIREMENT FOR THESE TYPES OF FACILITIES.

THESE CAN BE MODIFIED ON A CASE BY CASE BASIS.

AS OPPOSED TO A TYPICAL VARIANCE SETBACK.

THESE ARE DONE AS PART OF THE SPECIAL USE EXCEPTION.

SO WHAT WOULD BE REQUIRED OF THE REQUEST FOR A SETBACK MODIFICATION.

IT WOULD HAVE TO BE REVIEWED BY THE ZONING ADMINISTRATOR AND OR THE PLANNING COMMISSION SINCE THIS IS A MAJOR SITE PLAN, IT WOULD BE THE PLANNING COMMISSION.

SO WHAT STAFF IS GOING TO WANT YOU TO DO IS TO MAKE A RECOMMENDATION TO THE BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS ON THEIR PROPOSED MODIFICATION TO THAT SETBACK. AND IF IF THE PRELIMINARY APPROVAL IS IS GRANTED, THE APPLICANT WILL MOVE FORWARD WITH THEIR, THEIR APPLICATION AND THEIR SPECIAL USE.

SO I'LL JUST BRIEFLY TOUCH ON JUST THE FEW MINOR THINGS.

LIKE I SAID, THE ONE THE ONE ASPECT IS THE 200 FOOT SETBACK.

OBVIOUSLY IF THE BZA IF THEY DECIDE NOT TO APPROVE THAT SETBACK MODIFICATION, THEY'LL HAVE TO MODIFY THEIR PLAN SET TO MEET THE SETBACK.

THE OTHER THING OUR RESIDENTIAL DWELLINGS ARE REQUIRED TO BE SHOWN WITHIN 1000FT OF THE FACILITY.

THOSE AREN'T SHOWN ON THE SITE PLAN.

SO THAT'LL HAVE TO BE ADDED IN.

AND JUST A CLARIFICATION ON THE CRITICAL AREA ZONING DESIGNATION.

SO THOSE ARE REALLY THE ONLY THREE COMMENTS I HAVE ON THIS PLAN AT THIS TIME.

THE REST OF IT IS IS EVERYTHING ELSE HAS BEEN ADDRESSED REALLY AT THIS POINT, EVEN AS A PRELIMINARY SITE PLAN.

SO IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR ME? NOW WOULD BE A GOOD TIME TO ASK IF NOT, WE CAN OPEN THE FLOOR UP TO THE TO THE APPLICANT TO PRESENT THEIR CASE.

WELL, I HAD A QUESTION. I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S FOR YOU OR IF IT'S FOR LANE ENGINEERING, BUT IN READING AND I THINK IT WAS ON THAT 102 SOMEWHERE, IT SAID 18 ACRES.

I KNOW I READ SOMEWHERE IT SAID SOMETHING ABOUT 18 ACRES.

MR. JACKSON, SEAN CALLAHAN LANE.

THAT'S A MISTAKE.

OKAY. BECAUSE I READ IT AND THEY'VE BEEN TELLING.

YEAH, THEY'VE BEEN TELLING US 15.

AND THEN I'M READING THE PAPERWORK AND IT SAID 18.

YEAH. AND OKAY.

BUT THAT WAS MY ONLY QUESTION.

OKAY. OUR 200 FOOT SETBACK.

WHEN WHEN WAS THAT ADOPTED? SO THOSE REGULATIONS THAT'S CORRECT. IT WAS PART OF THE PACKAGE THAT WAS APPROVED FOLLOWING THE SCHUSTER APPLICATION.

PRIOR TO THAT, IT DIDN'T EXIST.

THE 2018 IS WHEN 200 FOOT CAME IN.

THAT'S WHEN WE MODIFIED THE MINERAL EXTRACTION FACILITY REGULATIONS.

SO HOW THE THE INTENT BEHIND THAT 200 FOOT SETBACK WAS SUPPOSED TO BE FOR ESSENTIALLY FOR, FOR NEW APPLICATIONS.

SO THERE WAS A, THERE'S A CLAUSE IN THERE ABOUT WHEN THE NEW REGULATIONS WOULD BE ENFORCED AND IF, IF AN EXISTING FACILITY HAD PREVIOUSLY APPROVED ANY MINING PERMIT FOR THE AREA IN QUESTION, THEN THEY WOULD HAVE TO COMPLY WITH THE BASICALLY THE NEW REGULATIONS, WHICH WOULD BE PART OF THAT WOULD BE THE 200 FOOT SETBACK.

NOW, YES, THEY HAD PREVIOUSLY APPROVED MD MINING PERMITS.

HOWEVER, THIS PHASE WAS NEVER PART OF THAT PERMIT, WHICH IS REQUIRED AT THIS POINT TO MEET THE 200 FOOT SETBACK.

[00:10:06]

NOTHING. THERE'S BEEN NO COMPLAINTS THAT THAT OUR OFFICE HAS BEEN MADE AWARE OF.

STATE HIGHWAY ADMINISTRATION HAD NO COMMENTS ON ON THE ON THE APPLICATION.

SO THEY'RE PERFECTLY GOOD WITH THE ENTRANCE.

THERE'S NO CHANGE IN TRUCK TRAFFIC.

NO. NO.

TECHNICAL ADVISORY MEMBERS HAVE HAD RAISED ANY CONCERNS OR RED FLAGS DURING THE REVIEW.

[INAUDIBLE]. REPRESENTING CAROLINE MATERIALS.

IT IS MY UNDERSTANDING AND YOU CAN ASK MR. BREEDING ABOUT THIS, THAT WHEN THE INITIAL 2018 REGULATIONS WERE SUBMITTED, IT WAS UNDERSTOOD THAT EXISTING OPERATIONS WERE GOING TO BE EXCLUDED FROM THAT.

IN PARTICULAR, THIS OPERATION HAD REQUIRED A 75 FOOT PLANTED BUFFER THAT WENT ALL THE WAY AROUND THE PROPERTY.

AS YOU CAN SEE FROM THE PICTURES THAT WERE IN YOUR PACKAGE, ESPECIALLY THE LAST ONE, AS YOU'RE LOOKING DOWN ROUTE 16 UP TOWARDS DENTON, IT'S IT'S A SOLID WALL AND THE PROPERTIES ON THE, I GUESS, SOUTHWEST SIDE GOING DOWN TOWARDS [INAUDIBLE] AND DOWN THAT WAY.

THOSE PROPERTIES OWNERS GOT THE SAME NOTIFICATION THAT EVERYBODY DID.

THEY'LL HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO BE HEARD AT THE BOARD OF APPEALS.

SO WE WOULD ASK FOR A RECOMMENDATION IN SUPPORT OF THE 75 FOOT REQUIREMENT THAT WE HAVE ON THE SITE PLAN, BECAUSE A IT'S ALREADY BUFFERED AND B WE HAVE A MAJOR HIGHWAY ROUTE 16.

WELL, I GUESS IT WILL BE WHEN THEY FINISH IT, YOU KNOW.

RIGHT, RIGHT IN FRONT OF IT.

SO THERE'S GOING TO BE TRAFFIC NOISE AND STUFF LIKE THAT.

AND I THINK MR. CALLAHAN DOES HAVE TWO MINOR ADJUSTMENTS THAT WE'VE NOTICED IN THE OLD APPLICATION AND LOOKING AT THE SITE. SO I'M GOING TO LET HIM SPEAK TO THOSE.

BUT AS FAR AS THE 75 FOOT BUFFER IS CONCERNED, I THINK THIS IS AN APPROPRIATE PLACE FOR THE RECOMMENDATION TO REDUCE IT FROM 200FT TO 75.

AND THEN I'LL LET MR. CALLAHAN SPEAK.

GOOD EVENING, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, SEAN CALLAHAN WITH LANE ENGINEERING.

CATHERINE'S GOT ON THE SCREEN NOW THE PICTURES, I GUESS THE STAFF TOOK.

THIS IS LOOKING SORT OF, I GUESS NORTH AND MAYBE EAST FROM THE FAR WEST SIDE OF THE SITE.

BUT YOU CAN SEE IT'S A COMPLETE THICK WALL OF, YOU KNOW, MAYBE 20, 25 YEAR OLD TREES AND VOLUNTEER SPECIES AND YOU JUST CAN'T SEE THROUGH IT.

SO THE SITE IS WELL BUFFERED.

THE ONLY PLACE YOU CAN KIND OF SEE IN THERE IS HER FIRST SLIDE OR SECOND SLIDE BACK CLOSER TO DENTON WHERE THE WHERE THE MAJOR HAUL ROAD IN IS.

YOU CAN YOU CAN KIND OF SEE IN THERE A LITTLE BIT.

THAT'S THE CORN IN THE BACK THERE.

AND WHEN THE CORN IS DOWN, MAYBE YOU COULD SEE IN THERE IF YOU WERE STANDING ON THE PROPERTY LINE, BUT YOU COULDN'T SEE THROUGH THERE.

IF YOU'RE GOING BY IT 50 MILES AN HOUR, TRYING TO LOOK AT THE CARS AHEAD OF YOU AND AND LOOK AROUND.

SO YOU CAN GET A LITTLE BIT OF A VIEW INTO THE SITE HERE.

AND THEN THERE IS ONE OTHER PLACE DOWN THAT WHERE HE'S BUILT A NEW BARN DOWN ON THE OTHER END.

RIGHT THERE. YOU SEE THAT? THAT'S A TREE LINED DRIVEWAY HERE WITH THE NEW BARN.

SO YOU WILL BE ABLE TO SEE INTO THE SITE HERE.

I DON'T KNOW IF THE PLANNING COMMISSION AND BOARD OF APPEALS IS GOING TO SUGGEST ANY ADDITIONAL LANDSCAPING IN HERE OR NOT.

BUT, YOU KNOW, WE COULD TALK ABOUT THAT, BUT IT'S IT'S REALLY, YOU KNOW, WELL, WELL OFF THE HIGHWAY AND IT LOOKS IT LOOKS PRETTY NICE.

THERE ARE TWO MATTERS.

I ALLUDED TO ONE EARLIER.

THERE'S A MISTAKE ON MY PLAN.

BUT, CATHERINE, COULD YOU PULL UP MY SITE PLAN, PLEASE? WHICH PAGE? IT'S SHEET.

I THINK IT'S THE SECOND, THIRD PAGE OF THE SET.

[00:15:03]

SO IN THE TOP LEFT IS WHERE MR. JACKSON SAW THE 18.3.

AND THAT'S, THAT'S SUPPOSED TO BE A 14.99.

SEAN, WE HAVE THE LARGE SET HERE IF YOU WANT TO.

IF THAT WOULD BE EASIER TO.

YEAH, I'LL JUST SHOW YOU.

OKAY.

CONDITIONS, I'M LIKE, WAIT A MINUTE.

THIS IS 18.3.

IT SAYS THE PURPOSE OF THIS PLAN IS TO OBTAIN SITE PLAN APPROVAL TO PROVIDE NECESSARY CONSTRUCTION INFORMATION FOR 18.3 ACRE EXPANSION.

IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE 14.99.

YEAH, IT'S RIGHT. WHEN WE STARTED IT RICK HADN'T DONE THE BUILDING SITE OR THE SDA YET . THE TWO OTHER THINGS THAT I'D LIKE TO DISCUSS WITH YOU.

THE CONDITIONS FROM THE 2004 APPROVAL, CONDITION NUMBER TEN AND CONDITION NUMBER 17.

CONDITION NUMBER 10 SAYS THAT READINGS MAY NOT ESTABLISH A WASH PLANT.

CONVEYOR SPRINGS.

SAND SORT. SAND TRAP, WATER PUMPS, OR ANY OTHER IMPROVEMENTS FOR THE WASHING, SORTING OR SEPARATING OF MATERIALS.

AND IT GOES ON TO SAY PURSUANT TO THIS, USE SPECIAL EXCEPTION, USE THE READINGS REPRESENTED THAT ONLY [INAUDIBLE] ON GRAVEL WOULD BE MINED AT THE SITE DURING THE HEARING, PURSUANT TO WHICH SPECIAL USE EXCEPTION WAS GRANTED.

THE BUFFER SETBACKS AND REQUIREMENTS OF THIS SPECIAL USE EXCEPTION CONDITIONS WERE APPROVED, WITH THE EXPRESS UNDERSTANDING THAT NO THESE CONDITIONS WERE NOT FASHIONED TO ACCOUNT FOR ANY SUCH OPERATIONS AND ADDITIONAL REQUIREMENTS CONDITIONS WOULD HAVE BEEN IMPOSED ON READINGS FOR THIS SPECIAL EXCEPTION.

THE COUNTIES USUALLY REQUIRE THAT THE CONDITIONS FOR THE OLD APPROVALS BE LISTED ON THE PLAN.

AND RICK DOES DO A VERY LIMITED AMOUNT OF SCREENING ON THE PROPERTY.

MAYBE LIKE ONCE A WEEK.

AND I'LL HAVE RICK EXPLAIN WHAT THAT IS.

BUT WE'RE GOING TO NEED TO AMEND THE CONDITION WHEN WE GET TO THE BOARD OF APPEALS AND WHEN WE COME BACK TO YOU ALL FOR THIS APPROVAL TO ALLOW SOME SCREENING.

AND SCREENING IS A PROCESS BY WHICH MATERIAL IS DUMPED INTO A HOPPER AND MATERIAL IS SORTED AND THE PEBBLES AND ROCKS GO IN ONE PILE AND THE CLEAN BANK RUN GOES IN ANOTHER PILE.

AND RICK CAN TELL YOU MORE ABOUT THAT THAN I CAN.

BUT THAT'S ONE OF THE THINGS I SAW HERE THAT THAT WE NEED TO ADDRESS.

[INAUDIBLE]. AND THEN NUMBER 17 ON THAT SAME SHEET, G 102 SAYS WATER GENERATED FROM MINING OPERATIONS AND OR USED ON THE SITE SHALL BE, SHALL NOT BE DISCHARGED INTO ANY DRAINAGE SQUARE OR DITCHES THAT MAY CARRY SUCH WATER OFF SITE FOR BREEDING SHALL DEVELOP AND MAINTAIN A STORMWATER MANAGEMENT AND SEDIMENT CONTROL DEVICE THAT WOULD PRECLUDE THE OFF SITE MIGRATION OF WATER AND SEDIMENTS ASSOCIATED OR GENERATED BY MINING OPERATIONS.

THERE HAS ALWAYS BEEN A DISCHARGE FROM THE SITE.

EVEN IN THE EARLIEST PROJECT, PRIOR TO BREEDING OWNING THE PROPERTY.

THERE'S A DRAINAGE OUTFALL ON THE ON THE NORTH END OF THE SITE.

RICK HAS THE WATER TESTED, I THINK ONCE A MONTH.

I DID SOME WORK FOR HIM IN 2017.

HE HAS A STATE PERMIT FOR THE FOR A DISCHARGE.

IT'S WELL AWAY FROM THE MINING OPERATION.

CATHERINE, IF YOU JUST

[00:20:02]

AFTER. AFTER.

C 101 IS FOUR SHEETS FROM THE END.

THIS IS WHERE THE BULK OF THE ACTION IS.

AND WATER COMES DOWN IN A DITCH, FLOWS AROUND THIS BIG POND INTO A SERIES OF SMALL PONDS, AND THEN FLOWS THROUGH ANOTHER DITCH OUT HERE TO A PIPE DOWN HERE THAT'S NOT QUITE RIGHT.

IT'S ON THIS SIDE. ON THIS SIDE? YEAH. OKAY. SO IN ANY EVENT, ANY, ANY WATER THAT FALLS HERE THAT DOES NOT INFILTRATE INTO THE SAND DOES EVENTUALLY, AFTER MIGRATING THROUGH A VEGETATED SWALE, GET DOWN AND COULD LEAVE THE PROPERTY AND HAS LEFT THE PROPERTY SINCE 1960 SO. AND WHEN WE COME BACK, WE'LL BRING YOU THE MONITORING REPORTS THAT SHOW THAT IT'S CLEAN WATER LEAVING THE SITE.

BUT THAT'S SOMETHING THAT I SAW THAT THAT WE NEEDED TO ADDRESS WITH YOU AND THE BOARD OF APPEALS.

AND WHEN WE COME BACK.

THAT'S ALL WE HAVE TO TALK ABOUT TELL YOU THE TRUTH.

RICK, CAN YOU EXPLAIN THE SCREENING A LITTLE BIT? JUST A LITTLE BIT? SURE. RICK, IT'S IT'S ALL DRY SCREENING.

THEY ADD NO WATER, AND IT'S USUALLY TOPSOIL.

BUT WE'VE BEEN ASKED BY THE COUNTY, CAROLINE COUNTY, WE HAVE A CONTRACT TO SUPPLY BANK MATERIAL FOR SOME OF THE COUNTY ROADS, AND THEY HAVE ASKED US TO REMOVE THE LARGER ROCKS SO THEIR EMPLOYEES CAN DO OTHER THINGS AS OPPOSED TO PICKING UP ROCKS SO.

FOR THE LAST COUPLE OF WEEKS WE HAVE BEEN DOING THAT.

YEAH, THEY WERE VERY GRATEFUL.

WHAT'S THAT? I SAID THEY WERE VERY GRATEFUL.

YEAH. I'M SURE.

BUT THAT WAS MY FIRST JOB.

YEAH. PICKING UP ROCKS, NOT BREAKING ROCKS.

SO IT'S NOT A WASH PLANT? AND AS FAR AS THAT OUTFALL, WE'VE HAD A STATE PERMIT SINCE PROBABLY THE EARLY 80S.

AND IT'S MONITORED BY THE ENVIRO CORPS OUT OF OUT OF HARRINGTON, DELAWARE.

SAMPLES THE WATER MONTHLY, ANALYZES IT, GIVES US THE REPORT AND WE IN TURN SEND IT TO THE STATE.

AND WE'VE NEVER HAD AN ISSUE.

IN 2005, WHERE DID THAT CONDITION COME FROM? IF HE ALREADY HAD AN OUTFLOW, HE ALREADY HAD, HE'S ALREADY DISCHARGING WATER.

THEN THEY SAY YOU CAN'T DISCHARGE WATER, BUT HE'S ALREADY DISCHARGED WATER.

WELL, MR. JACKSON IS PROBABLY THE ATTORNEY WHO WROTE THE OPINION DIDN'T HEAR IT CORRECTLY.

BECAUSE, I MEAN, I JUST I MEAN, WERE THEY ALLUDING TO SOMETHING ELSE? YOU CAN'T YOU CAN'T START UP A WASH PLANT AND JUST RUN THE WATER OFF BECAUSE YOU KNOW, YOU'RE ALREADY DOING IT.

THIS YOUR DRAINAGE IS JUST TO DRAIN THE PROPERTY.

I MEAN, JUST SO IT DOESN'T SIT.

YEAH. IT JUST IT'S NOT YOUR OPERATION.

AND WE'VE ADDRESSED THOSE POINT BY POINT ON I THINK THE SECOND TO LAST SHEET OF THE SET, IT TALKS ABOUT TRUCKS PER DAY.

IT TALKS ABOUT THE OPERATION.

IT TALKS ABOUT THE REDUCED SETBACKS REQUESTED.

BUT, YOU KNOW, FOR THE MOST PART, THIS IS AN OLD FASHIONED GRAVEL PIT WHERE THE GUYS DIG IT AND PUT IT IN TRUCKS AND LEAVE WITH IT.

YOU KNOW, THERE'S NO WASHING.

IT'S NOT, YOU KNOW, NO DIESEL GENERATOR RUNNING AT ALL TIMES OF THE DAY OR, YOU KNOW, A WASH PLANT OR A SIGNIFICANT OPERATION.

THIS IS NOT A SAND MINING OPERATION, YOU KNOW, WITH 300 TRUCKS A DAY OR WHATEVER.

IT'S A FAIRLY SMALL OPERATION AND YOU KNOW, TO REPRESENT IT AS SUCH TO THE BOARD AND GET OUR APPROVAL AND COME

[00:25:08]

THAT'S AWESOME. MR. BREEDING, WERE YOU UNDER THE UNDERSTANDING, I GUESS, PRIOR TO YOU, TO THAT, YOU WERE GRANDFATHERED IN ON THIS.

DID YOU HAVE ANY CONVERSATION WITH ANYBODY PRIOR TO BEFORE THEY DID THE PREVIOUS SETBACK FROM 75 TO 280? YES. COMMISSIONER PORTER AND COMMISSIONER LEVINSON.

OKAY. THAT IT WOULD NOT AFFECT AN OPERATION LIKE OURS.

OKAY. I'M SORRY.

SORRY, I THOUGHT I TURNED THAT OFF.

I GUESS IT WOULDN'T AFFECT AN EXISTING OPERATION.

YEAH. NO. YOU WERE JUST UNDER THE UNDERSTANDING THAT AFTER THEY SAID THAT, YOU WENT TO THEM AND SAID IS THIS GOING TO MESS WITH ME? AND I TAKE IT YOU JUST SAID, HEY, I GUESS THEY TOLD YOU THAT, HEY, IT WON'T AFFECT YOU BECAUSE YOU'VE ALREADY HAD AN EXISTING, EXISTING OPERATION HERE.

IS THAT BASICALLY WHAT THE. YES.

OKAY. THE BUFFER WAS PUT IN IN 2005 WHEN YOU GOT THE LAST EXPANSION? THAT'S CORRECT.

I'M GOING TO SHOOT IN THE DARK HERE YOU PUT THE BUFFER OUT BY THE ROAD.

EXPECTING THAT YOU WERE GOING TO GO 75FT BECAUSE IT WAS 75 FOOT THEN.

RIGHT. SO.

I BELIEVE THAT AT THE TIME MCCRONE STARTED THIS FOR MY FATHER, AND HE PASSED AWAY IN OH SIX BEFORE BEFORE IT WAS APPROVED.

SO I FINISHED IT AND I CAN'T PUT MY HANDS ON IT, BUT I THINK THERE WAS A PLAN THAT SHOWED THAT BUFFER BACK AT THE TOP OF THE PERMIT AREA. AND FOR WHATEVER REASON, THE PLANNING COMMISSION OR THE BOARD OF APPEALS OR WHOEVER SAID, NO, IT HAS TO BE ALONG 16.

MR. CHAIRMAN, I CAN CHIME IN THERE, AND I'M KIND OF SHOOTING FROM THE DARK TOO, BECAUSE IT WAS A WHILE BACK THEN, THERE WAS NOT A REQUIREMENT FOR THE MINING OPERATIONS TO GO BEFORE THE PLANNING COMMISSION, JUST THE BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS.

AND I DO REMEMBER THAT ORIGINAL PLAN FOR THAT BUFFER TO BE SET BACK THAT FAR.

AND I JUST CAN'T RECALL WHETHER IT WAS THE BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS THAT SAID, NO, YOU'VE GOT TO MOVE IT FORWARD.

OR IF IT WAS JUST MR. BREEDING'S, YOU KNOW, IDEA TO LET'S NOT PUT THEM THERE.

IF DOWN THE ROAD WE WANT TO MINE THIS AREA, WE'D HAVE TO DIG UP THOSE TREES AND THEN PUT A NEW BUFFER IN PLACE.

SO I'M PRETTY SURE IT WAS MR. HOLSINGER. BUT YEAH, I DO REMEMBER THAT.

AND THERE WAS A PLAN FOR THAT TREE BUFFER TO BE BACK THERE.

AND FOR WHATEVER REASON, IT GOT MOVED OUT FRONT DO YOU HAVE ANY DO YOU HAVE ANY PLANS OF MOVING THAT, EXTENDING THAT BUFFER AROUND THAT, THAT WHERE THE BUILDING GOT BUILT? ONLY IF IT'S A REQUIRED.

I JUST DIDN'T KNOW YOU REALLY CAN'T EVEN SEE FROM THE PICTURES.

YOU CAN'T. EVEN IF YOU DRIVE BY IT, YOU CAN'T EVEN SEE THE BUILDING THE WAY IT IS NOW WITH THE BUFFER THAT YOU HAVE WITH THE EXISTING BUFFER.

RIGHT. I MEAN, YOU REALLY HAVE TO SLOW DOWN AND.

AND THERE'S FOUR ACRES, RIGHT? FOUR ACRES THERE. THAT'S NOT GOING TO BE AFFECTED BY THEM.

RIGHT. SO WHEN YOU LOOK IN THAT DRIVEWAY IT'S GOING TO BE CROP LAND.

LIKE YOU SAID BEFORE.

I MEAN, YOU REALLY HAVE TO SLOW DOWN AND BE IN THIS AREA 10-15 MILES AN HOUR TO REALLY EVEN NOTICE IT.

IS THERE ANY DO WE HAVE ANYTHING ON RECORD WITH YOUR NEIGHBORING PEOPLE HAVING ANY COMPLAINTS ABOUT ANY OF THOSE BUFFERS?

[00:30:07]

AND AGAIN, TO CLARIFY, YOU'RE REQUESTING THIS TO COME WITHIN IT.

YOU'RE NOT CHANGING THE WHOLE ROAD.

YOU'RE NOT CHANGING THE TRUCK TRAFFIC, THE HOURS OF OPERATION.

YEAH. IT'S JUST GOING TO JUST WANT TO DIG UP A LITTLE FURTHER.

OKAY. THAT'S THAT'S CORRECT.

OKAY. THE WAY I SEE IT IS JUST JUST A LITTLE BIT OF ANALOGY, A COMPARISON HERE.

WE HAD A LANDFILL.

OKAY. AND THE LANDFILL WAS STILL GOOD FOR EXPANSION.

ALL RIGHT, SO WHAT I'M GETTING AT HERE IS WE KEPT THE LANDFILL THERE, SO THERE'S NO NEED TO BUILD ANOTHER LANDFILL.

SO YOU ALREADY HAVE AN EXISTING SAND PIT THERE MR. BREEDING THAT, YOU KNOW, IT'S UP TO CODE.

THERE'S NO COMPLAINTS.

YOU'VE DONE YOU'VE BEEN IN GOOD STANDING FOR OVER 40 YEARS.

I SAY JUST GO TO THE MAX WITH IT, DO WHAT YOU WERE ALLOWED TO IN THE PREVIOUS TWO, THAT YOU WERE GRANDFATHERED IN.

SO, I MEAN, ON THAT, I MAKE A RECOMMENDATION THAT WE SEND IT TO THE BZA WITH THE CHANGES TO THE SCREENING.

I'M NOT SURE THE NUMBER ON THAT.

THE SCREENING ON YOUR PAPER AND THE DISCHARGE ON THE PLAQUE.

YEAH. THEY HAVE TO DO SOMETHING WITH THEM TWO CONDITIONS.

YEAH, THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING ON THE RECOMMENDATION THAT THEY.

YOU'D HAVE TO CHANGE IT ON YOURS.

SO, RICK, YOU AND I TALKED, YOU TOLD ME SCREENING ONE DAY A WEEK SATISFIES THE NEED THAT YOU HAVE. IS THAT WHAT YOU AND I TALKED ABOUT? YES. SO THE WHY MAY NOT IT MAY BE TWO DAYS, ONE WEEK AND SO ON SO ON AVERAGE, ON AVERAGE YEARLY AVERAGE OF ONE ONE DAY A WEEK [INAUDIBLE] FOR SCREENING OR SCREENING OF MATERIAL.

RIGHT. SO YOU WOULD SAY LIKE NO MORE THAN FIVE TIMES A MONTH? NO. IS THAT WHAT I'M SAYING THAT'S PRETTY ACCURATE.

YEAH, THAT'S WHAT I MEAN. YOU WOULD SAY LIKE, NO MORE THAN FIVE TIMES A MONTH.

AND THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING.

I RECOMMEND ON THE CONDITION THAT IT GOES THROUGH TO BZA, WITH YOUR 75 WITH YOUR AGREED UPON CONDITIONS THAT YOU WANT TO RECOMMEND ON THAT.

[INAUDIBLE] WELL, I MEAN, MY THING IS I THINK, YOU KNOW, FOR 20 YEARS, THE ANTICIPATION WAS TO GO TO THE 75 FOOT MARK.

RIGHT. AND THE COUNTY CHANGED THE RULES SO.

WELL, THEY DID, AND THEY DIDN'T THEY THEY ALLOWED PEOPLE TO COME AND ASK FOR RELIEF.

YEAH. I MEAN.

YEAH. SO I MEAN, WE'RE HERE BECAUSE I THINK IF THE BOARD, YOU KNOW, APPROVES THE SITE PLAN AS SHOWN AND AND ALLOWS SCREENING UP TO ONE DAY A WEEK AND AND DISCHARGE AS TESTIFIED [INAUDIBLE]. WELL, I WILL I'LL ASK AND I'LL ASK MR. BREEDING, YOU'RE LIMITING HIM TO ONE DAY A WEEK.

I MEAN, YOU WANT TWO DAYS A WEEK, YOU WANT THREE.

I DON'T. DOES THAT THING.

I DON'T KNOW WHAT IT I DON'T KNOW.

I'VE SEEN A WASH PLANT, SO I KNOW WHAT KIND OF WHAT'S INVOLVED WITH ALL THAT NOISE AND THE RUNOFF.

SO I DON'T KNOW WHAT A DRY PLANT DOES.

I MEAN, IT'S VERY QUIET, BUT I MEAN, CERTAINLY I'D RATHER HAVE MORE THAN ENOUGH.

YEAH. AT THIS TIME, YOU KNOW, 52 DAYS A YEAR WOULD BE ADEQUATE, RIGHT? I MEAN, IN THE WINTERTIME, WE DON'T.

YEAH. IN THE PAST, WE'VE HAD TO SHUT DOWN BASICALLY FOR A COUPLE OF MONTHS.

BUT, YOU KNOW, WE DON'T HAVE THAT KIND OF WEATHER RECENTLY.

WELL, I'M GOING TO I'M GOING TO GUESS IF THIS IS THE LAST EXPANSION.

I MEAN, IT'LL TAKE YOU OUT TO THE ROAD.

IT WOULD BE IT.

THIS IS SO IF YOU IF YOU ASK FOR A SCREENING ONE DAY A WEEK AND YOU FIND OUT YOU WANT TO DO A LITTLE BIT MORE, THEN YOU GOT TO COME BACK AND DO IT SPEAKERS]. DO IT THREE DAYS A WEEK.

WELL I'M GOOD.

YOU GOOD? YEAH.

I'M GOOD. OKAY. DO WE? WE GOT TO MAKE A MOTION FOR PRELIMINARY.

YOU'RE MAKING A RECOMMENDATION FOR THEM WITH ANY CONDITIONS YOU MIGHT RECOMMEND TO MOVE FORWARD WITH THE BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS.

DO YOU WANT TO. DO YOU WANT TO DO IT? YOU WANT ME TO DO YOU YOU.

OKAY. A WHILE AGO THAT I MADE THE RECOMMENDATION.

AND I'VE BEGUN IN THE FORM OF A MOTION.

YES. FOR PRELIMINARY SITE PLAN APPROVAL, WITH A RECOMMENDATION TO GRANT THE REDUCTION IN THE SETBACK TO MOVE FORWARD WITH THE BZA.

[00:35:08]

THAT'S ALL. THREE DAYS A WEEK.

I'M TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO WHERE HE'S GOT IT.

HE'S GOT TO STRAIGHTEN THEM CONDITIONS UP.

THE ONE, THE FALLOUT, THE WATER.

WELL, I MEAN, THOSE THOSE WILL BE CONDITIONS THAT THE BZA WOULD HAVE TO GRANT ANYWAY, BECAUSE THOSE WERE THEIR CONDITIONS AT THE TIME.

MR. JACKSON, IF WE COULD JUST RECOGNIZE THAT THERE'S AN EXISTING OUTFALL THAT IS BEING MONITORED.

AND THAT THE MONITORING OF THAT OUTFLOW WILL CONTINUE, PURSUANT TO THE STATE STANDARDS, I THINK YOU'RE COVERED.

OKAY. WHAT STATE APPROVED THE PERMIT? AND IF WE CAN SUPPLY A COPY OF THE PERMIT.

AND THAT'S ALL STUFF THEY TAKE THAT THEY'RE GOING TO TAKE TO BZA SO.

HELP ME OUT AND WE'LL ADD TO IT, OR TAKE AWAY FROM IT.

I MAKE A MOTION THAT WE GRANT PRELIMINARY SITE PLAN APPROVAL FOR CAROLINE MATERIALS APPLICATION TO GO TO MINE WITHIN THE 200 FOOT BARRIER, UP TO 75 FOOT UP TO 75FT.

THAT WITH THE CONDITIONS AND AND GRANT APPROVAL OR RECOMMEND APPROVAL TO SCREEN UP TO THREE DAYS A WEEK, A SCREENING OPERATION UP TO THREE DAYS A WEEK, AND THEY CONTINUE TO MONITOR THEIR DISCHARGE, THE WATER DISCHARGE OFF THE PROPERTY.

YES. DID I MISS ANYTHING? SOUNDS GOOD. GOOD.

THAT'S A MOTION. DO I HEAR A SECOND.

I SECOND IT. YOU HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND.

ALL IN FAVOR, SAY AYE.

RAISE YOUR RIGHT HAND SAY AYE.

AYE. AYE. MOTION CARRIES.

THANK YOU, MR. JACKSON.

ANYTHING ELSE THAT YOU ALL WOULD? OF COURSE. I GUESS YOU'LL BE BACK, RIGHT? WE'LL BE BACK. THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

THANK YOU. THANK YOU.

[BZA Update]

OKAY. DEPARTMENT UPDATE.

[Department Update]

WE DID RECEIVE ONE APPLICATION THAT WE ARE CURRENTLY REVIEWING AND WILL BE INTERVIEWING FOR, SO HOPEFULLY WE'LL BE ABLE TO FILL THAT POSITION.

IT'S BEEN EXCITING SINCE WE'VE BEEN TRYING TO DO THAT SINCE NOVEMBER.

WE ANTICIPATE FOR OCTOBER, I BELIEVE YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE A MINING OPERATION, A NEW MINING OPERATION ON YOUR AGENDA FOR PRELIMINARY SITE PLAN APPROVAL.

IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE IN THE.

THAT'S A NEW ONE. A NEW ONE? NO, THAT'S THAT'S THE ONLY THING THAT WOULD BE RECENT.

THE NEXT AVAILABLE ITEM THAT COULD BE ON THE AGENDA, BUT MIGHT BE TWO MONTHS DOWN THE ROAD, IS A SOLAR APPLICATION, WHICH WE HAD PREVIOUSLY HAD IN.

AND THEY HAD TO MODIFY THEIR APPLICATION TO MEET THE NEW 200 FOOT SETBACK THAT WE JUST PASSED.

SO THAT FACILITY IS ROUGHLY 24 ACRES IN SIZE.

RIGHT OFF IN BETWEEN FEDERALSBURG HIGHWAY AND CLARK COUNTY ROAD IN PHILIPSBURG.

[00:40:05]

AND WHILE YOU'RE JUST WHILE YOU'RE AND I KNOW TRAVIS IS NOT HERE, BUT OR KEITH, BUT ARE WE STILL GOOD BECAUSE WE'VE SAID, DON'T BRING ANYTHING HERE THAT HAS GOT THREE PAGES WORTH OF ARE WE ARE Y'ALL STILL GOOD WITH THAT, BRINGING APPLICATIONS TO US THAT AREN'T EVEN READY THAT HAVEN'T EVEN PASSED? YES. OKAY.

BECAUSE, I MEAN, WHEN DOING THESE WORK SITES, LIKE, WHY ARE WE LOOKING AT THIS? I MEAN, THEY CAN'T EVEN GET IT RIGHT.

WELL, THE LAST ONE WAS 20, WHICH I KNOW THEY FIXED, BUT YEAH.

OKAY. I JUST I JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT EVERYBODY STILL AGREED WITH THAT BECAUSE WE STILL HAVE APPLICANTS THAT STRUGGLE TO READ PAPERS AND MAKE CORRECTIONS. CORRECT.

AND I'LL REMIND YOU, THAT WAS MAY 8TH WHEN THEY GOT A CONDITIONAL APPROVAL.

WE'VE GOT SOME OUTSTANDING DOCUMENTS THAT NEED TO BE FINALIZED.

AND I JUST GOT THE FINAL SITE PLAN SET SUBMITTED YESTERDAY, WHEN THEY THOUGHT THEY SUBMITTED IT A MONTH AGO, BUT THEY DID NOT.

SO. IS THERE ANYTHING? OKAY. ANYTHING ELSE? DO Y'ALL HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR THE STAFF IN THE DEPARTMENTS? SO YOU ONLY HAVE ONE OPENING RIGHT NOW? YES. WELL, WE HAVE TWO.

THE PLANNER POSITION, WHICH AGAIN, WE'VE BEEN UNSUCCESSFUL.

RIGHT. BUT WE ARE WORKING AND LOOKING AT CONTRACTUAL FOR THAT TO GET US GET US THROUGH.

SO DID YOU GUYS IMPLEMENT THE NEW FEE SCHEDULE YET? YES. AND HOW IS THAT WORKING OUT? THIS WAS PROBABLY ONE OF THE FIRST APPLICATIONS THAT WE TOOK IN UNDER THE NEW FEE SCHEDULE.

YES. YES IT WAS.

I GOTCHA. WELL, THE R&R WAS THE R&R.

OKAY. THE DIFFERENT FEES FOR APPLICATIONS I KNOW WE WERE TALKING ABOUT YOU GET YOUR TWO REVIEWS AND THEN YOU START WHATEVER IT WAS.

YES. SO THOSE THOSE REVIEW FEES WERE APPLIED TO THIS OPERATION AND TO THE NEW MINING FACILITY.

AND THEY HAVE AN ORIGINAL UPFRONT COST THAT'S ABOVE AND BEYOND THE $400 FEE THAT HAS ALWAYS APPLIED FOR A SITE PLAN REVIEW THAT IF YOU WERE A SOLAR OR A MINERAL EXTRACTION, THERE'S AN ADDITIONAL FEE, BECAUSE AGAIN, IT'S GOING TO BE A MORE EXTENSIVE REVIEW.

AND THEN WE ALSO HAVE THAT RESUBMITTAL ONCE WE REACH THAT THIRD THIRD SUBMITTAL.

I DON'T KNOW THAT WE'VE HAD TO APPLY THAT YET.

NOT YET. NO YES. CHERRYWOOD AND WAYPOST ARE VERY CLOSE BEHIND THEM, THOUGH.

BUT THOSE ARE ALSO VERY LARGE PROJECTS.

[Planning Commissioners Open Discussion: Potential State solar regulations]

OKAY. SO IN YOUR PACKAGES YOU HAVE A SUMMARY IN THE STAFF REPORT.

WHAT HAS HAPPENED IS BACK IN LATE JULY, MACO'S SOLAR WORK GROUP THAT THEY HAVE PUT TOGETHER, AND I'M NOT SURE IF THEY STARTED THAT WORK GROUP LAST YEAR WHEN WE WERE GOING THROUGH LEGISLATIVE SESSION OR IF IT WAS COMING OUT OF LEGISLATIVE SESSION TO START WORKING ON WHAT THIS UPCOMING SESSION IS GOING TO LOOK LIKE IN REGARDS TO SOLAR.

THERE WERE MANY BILLS PUT OUT THERE LAST SESSION.

THE MAJORITY DID MAKE IT THROUGH.

AND THE FORECAST, YOU KNOW, WHAT WE'RE HEARING FROM MACO IS THERE'S GOING TO BE A STRONG PUSH, THIS LEGISLATION FOR THE PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION TO PREEMPT THE LOCAL JURISDICTIONS.

AND THIS SOLAR WORK GROUP'S WORKING ON SOME DRAFT STANDARDS THAT WOULD APPLY STATEWIDE TO SEE IF THERE'S SOME COMPROMISE THROUGH THIS LEGISLATIVE SESSION.

I DON'T REALLY WANT TO CALL IT A COMPROMISE, BUT TO SAY, INSTEAD OF ENTIRELY TAKING THE AUTHORITY AWAY FROM THE COUNTIES, CAN

[00:45:01]

SO THEY'VE BEEN WORKING ON SOME SOME DRAFT IDEAS, WHICH THOSE ARE IN YOUR PACKAGE.

THAT IS WHAT MACO HAS SHARED WITH ALL THE COUNTIES THAT THEY'RE WORKING ON AND HAVE ASKED FOR SOME FEEDBACK FROM THE COUNTIES ON WHAT THEY'RE PROPOSING TO DO, AND THEY ALSO ASKED THE COUNTIES TO DO AN EXERCISE OF TAKING A LOOK AT YOUR COUNTY, IDENTIFY THE MAJOR TRANSMISSION LINES YOU HAVE IN YOUR COUNTY, SEE WHAT THAT LOOKS LIKE WITH A TWO MILE BUFFER ALONG THAT TRANSMISSION LINE.

BECAUSE THE SOLAR INDUSTRY, WHEN THEY'RE LOOKING FOR PROPERTIES IN TO PLACE THESE UTILITY SCALE SOLAR, THEY NEED TO BE CLOSE TO THE TRANSMISSION LINES TO MAKE IT COST EFFECTIVE.

THE FURTHER THEY GET AWAY, THE MORE IT'S GOING TO COST.

SO THEY GENERALLY ARE LOOKING TO BE IN THAT TWO MILE AREA WHICH CHERRYWOOD AND WAYPOST, YOU KNOW, LOOKING ON THE MAP, THEY ARE IN THAT TWO MILE RADIUS OF THAT TRANSMISSION LINE.

WE LOOKED AT THE THE DATA.

WE HAVE A TRANSMISSION LINE THAT RUNS NORTH TO SOUTH FROM ONE END OF THE COUNTY TO THE OTHER, AND ONE THAT RUNS EAST TO WEST, AND THEN A SMALL LITTLE PORTION DOWN BY PRESTON OF A TRANSMISSION LINE. SO WE'VE TAKEN A LOOK AT THAT, AND THEN WE'VE IDENTIFIED OUR PRESERVATION AREAS.

LESLIE, YOU PROBABLY KNOW THE LIST OFF THE TOP OF YOUR HEAD.

I THINK IT MAY BE IN YOUR STAFF REPORT.

IN THE STAFF REPORT. OKAY, SO THAT LIST IS CRITICAL AREAS.

WETLANDS, WOODLAND PROPERTIES WITH OVER 70% OF FOREST ON IT ARE MOUTH EASEMENTS OR FOREST CONSERVATION EASEMENTS ON LAND THAT'S WITHIN THE TOWN, IN THE TOWN'S GROWTH AREAS, DNR OWNED PROPERTIES, PARCELS UNDER 20 ACRES ARE PARCELS THAT ARE LOCATED IN OUR TDR RECEIVING AREA, BECAUSE THAT DOES FALL WITHIN THAT TWO MILE RADIUS OF THE TRANSMISSION LINES.

ANY ZONING THAT'S NOT RURAL.

AND WE TOOK OUT ANY PARCELS, OBVIOUSLY, THAT HAVE EXISTING SOLAR OR THEY'RE IN THE PROCESS OF DOING SOLAR TO SEE WHAT DID THAT WHAT DID THAT LEAVE AS POTENTIAL ACREAGE IN THAT IN THAT TWO MILE AREA.

AND THAT WAS THE EXERCISE WE DID FOR MACO.

YOU KNOW, THEY'RE LOOKING AT EACH COUNTY TO SEE WHAT DOES THAT LOOK LIKE? WHERE ARE THE TRANSMISSION LINES IN MARYLAND? WHERE ARE THESE SOLAR GROUPS LOOKING TO TO LAND AND TRYING TO HAVE A PLAN IN PLACE WHEN THE LEGISLATURE STARTS DROPPING THE BILLS TO TAKE THAT LOCAL AUTHORITY AWAY.

THAT WAS PRETTY MUCH.

I THINK THE UNDERSTANDING FROM THE SOLAR INDUSTRY IS THE FURTHER THEY GET AWAY FROM TWO MILES, THEY'RE NOT LOOKING TO GO WITH THESE LARGE UTILITY SCALES BECAUSE THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE TO BUILD SUBSTATIONS, WHICH IN OUR COUNTY THEY'RE HAVING TO ANYWAY, BUT THEN YOU KNOW THE INFRASTRUCTURE TO GET IT TO THE TRANSMISSION LINE, ALL OF THAT WOULD COME INTO PLAY. SO FOR THEM, IT'S IT'S BEST IF THEY LOOK FOR AREAS CLOSER TO THOSE TRANSMISSION LINES.

WHAT I WAS SAYING IS THAT WHEN YOU WHEN YOU WERE TALKING WITH MACO, THAT'S WHAT EVERYBODY ACROSS THE STATE IS DOING LOOKING IN.

YEAH. WE'RE LOOKING TO SEE SPEAKERS]. SO THIS WAS JUST TO PROVIDE YOU, YOU KNOW, JUST SOME INFORMATION ON WHAT'S GOING ON, WHAT MACO IS DOING.

THE COUNTY COMMISSIONERS DID DISCUSS THIS YESTERDAY, AND I THINK COMMISSIONER BARTZ MAY BE ABLE TO GIVE YOU AN UPDATE ON WHERE THE COMMISSIONERS STAND IN REGARDS TO THIS EXERCISE. WELL, RIGHT NOW WE HAVE A CAP AT 2000 ACRES FOR SOLAR.

OKAY. SO THEY RUN THE NUMBERS, AND WE'RE ABOUT 400 ACRES ALMOST THERE.

SO WE'RE AT 1600 ACRES, SO THERE'S 400 ACRES THERE.

SO WE INSTRUCTED THEM ON TUESDAY YESTERDAY TO ANY PROJECT THAT WILL EXCEED THAT 400 ACRES TO TURN IT AWAY. NO WORDS.

DON'T EVEN WE'RE NOT EVEN LOOKING AT IT.

SO ME LARRY AND TRAVIS, I THINK WE WERE ALL PRETTY WELL IN AGREEANCE THERE THAT OUR FEET ARE IN THE SAND.

LIKE DIGGING IN THAT 2000 IS OUR CAP.

[00:50:03]

BUT WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN IS I THINK EVENTUALLY THE STATE WILL WIN WITH THEIR PREEMINENT COMING IN SAYING, HEY, YOU KNOW, YOU GOT TO DO SHOULDER.

WE'LL LOSE THE LAWSUIT BECAUSE THAT'S USUALLY WHAT HAPPENS.

SO I THINK WHAT CRYSTAL AND LESLIE AND THE STAFF IS TRYING TO DO IS INSTEAD OF BEING ON DEFENSE HERE, I THINK THEY'RE TRYING TO BE ON OFFENSE AND SAY, HEY, THIS IS A THIS IS SOMETHING, YOU KNOW, IF IT COMES TO THAT, IF IT COMES TO THE LAWSUITS BECOMES ALL THAT, THEN.

HEY, THIS IS SOMETHING THAT WE CAN LIVE WITH AND WE CAN LIVE WITH MEANS BEING ON OFFENSE TO STAY ON DEFENSE.

BECAUSE ONCE IT GOES TO DEFENSE, YOU'RE ALWAYS ON DEFENSE.

I MEAN, YOU NEVER GET BACK ON OFFENSE WHEN IT COMES TO THIS.

YOU'VE SEEN IT TIME AND TIME AGAIN.

WELL, WE DON'T WANT TO GIVE UP OUR SEAT AT THE TABLE TO BE TOTALLY SHUT OUT OF PROVIDING ANYTHING.

OR, YOU KNOW, AT THIS POINT IN THE JUNCTURE, WE'RE STILL DIGGING IN FOR INFORMATION AND TRYING TO GET AS MUCH BACK TO MACO TO HELP PROTECT AS MUCH OF THE LAND AS WE POSSIBLY CAN.

BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, MACO IS SAYING THAT THERE ARE OTHER COUNTIES OUT THERE THAT HAVE CHALLENGED THIS AND WERE NOT SUCCESSFUL.

WHEN MACO PUTS THIS MUCH ATTENTION ON SOMETHING JUST FROM MY TWO YEARS BEING ON THE COMMISSION, WHEN MACO STARTS PUTTING ATTENTION ON IT AND DOING WORK GROUPS, THAT MEANS SOMETHING'S COMING DOWN THE PIKE.

THEY THEY KNOW THEY'RE THEY'RE JUST TRYING TO GET ON THE SAME PAGE WITH EVERYBODY.

YOU KNOW, I DON'T I DON'T DISAGREE WITH THE 2000 ACRES.

I'M GOOD WITH IT. I AM TOO.

BUT BUT ALSO WE NEED A PLAN B.

SO 42,000, RIGHT? YEAH, BUT WE NEED A WE NEED A PLAN B BECAUSE.

SO IF NOT IF THEY'RE GOING EXACTLY. THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING.

WE'RE GOING TO YOU WANT TO HAVE AN OFFENSIVE STRATEGY.

SO IF THE STATE COMES IN AND SAYS HEY WE WANT 10%.

SO 2,000 ACRES TO 20,000 ACRES.

SO YOU KNOW, IF THEY TELL YOU 20,000 ACRES, EVERY FARMER FROM HERE, FROM MARYDALE TO, TO PHILLIPSBURG IS GOING TO BE LIKE NOT SO MUCH THE ACTUAL FARMER THAT OWNS THE LAND, BUT THE GUY WHO'S RENTING THE GROUND IS GOING TO BE KNOCKING ON YOUR DOOR.

LIKE, YOU KNOW WHAT? BECAUSE THAT'S, YOU KNOW, 20,000.

THAT'S A LOT. YES.

YOU KNOW, THAT'S A LOT OF ACREAGE.

BUT BUT IF TWO MILES, TWO MILES WITHIN THE TRANSMISSION LINE IS 40,000 ACRES.

AND IF WE DON'T TELL THEM NUMBERS, WE JUST SIT HERE AND THE STATE COMES IN AND SAYS, WELL, THAT'S FINE, WE WANT 10%.

YOU GO, ALL RIGHT.

RIGHT. [INAUDIBLE] AND WE WERE LOOKING AT WE WERE WE WERE LOOKING AT 40 AND THEY JUST TOOK 20.

AND UNDERSTAND THAT THE MAPPING EXERCISE IS NOT NECESSARILY ESTABLISHING AN AREA THAT SAYS THIS IS ONLY WHERE SOLAR WOULD GO.

THAT'S SAYING THIS IS THE LIKELY AREA THAT THEY'RE GOING TO WANT TO GO, BECAUSE THAT'S THE MOST COST EFFECTIVE FOR THEM.

SOLAR WOULD STILL BE PERMITTED ANYWHERE.

BUT SOME OF THE THINGS THEY'RE TRYING TO, YOU KNOW, GET THE LEGISLATURE TO, TO COMMIT TO IS, YOU KNOW, IF YOU STAY WITHIN THOSE THAT TWO MILE AREA.

AND ONE OF THE THINGS THEY'RE OFFERING UP IS A PAYMENT OF WHAT IF WE WERE TO OFFER AN EASEMENT ON THAT PROPERTY, THAT SOLAR INDUSTRY WOULD HAVE TO PAY THE COST OF THAT EASEMENT INTO A COUNTY FUND THAT WE WOULD ESTABLISH TO HELP US PRESERVE LAND ELSEWHERE.

SINCE WE'RE NOT ABLE TO PRESERVE THAT FARM THAT THEY'RE GOING TO PUT IN SOLAR, AND THAT THAT AMOUNT IN THAT TWO MILE RADIUS WOULD BE LESS THAN IF YOU WENT OUTSIDE OF THERE.

YOU GO OUTSIDE OF THERE IT'S GOING TO BE EVEN MORE.

YOU KNOW, WE THE FOCUS WOULD BE TO GO WITHIN THAT AREA.

AGAIN, YES, IT SOUNDS GREAT TO SAY WE'RE GOING TO GIVE THE COUNTIES MONEY FOR PRESERVATION BECAUSE WE'RE WE'RE GOING TO TAKE THIS AG LAND, BUT WE'RE STILL LOSING IT.

IT DOESN'T MATTER THAT, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE PAYING US TO PRESERVE SOMETHING ELSEWHERE.

WE STILL LOSE WHAT'S WHAT'S THERE.

WELL, THERE'S A COUPLE QUESTIONS.

AND ONE OF THEM, I THINK WE BRIEFLY DISCUSSED THIS, THAT.

THE FARMERS ARE CURRENTLY PAYING FOR THEIR FARM GROUND.

YOU GOT TO CORRECT ME HERE IF I SCREWED THIS UP.

GO FOR IT. THEY'RE PAYING AGRICULTURE.

THEY'RE TAXED ON FARMING.

IT'S NOT THE SAME AS I PAY ON MY HOUSE.

AND THEN AND THEN WE PLANT SOLAR PANELS ON IT.

IT'S NO LONGER FARM FARM GROUND.

IT IS A COMMERCIAL OPERATION.

DOES THE TAX ON THAT PROPERTY CHANGE.

SO GO TO COMMERCIAL TAX.

SO I ACTUALLY WAS TRYING TO GET AN UNDERSTANDING OF HOW THAT WORKS WITH THE TAX.

BECAUSE RIGHT NOW CHERRYWOOD SOLAR IS PART OF THE PILOT PROGRAM THAT THE STATE DID.

AND IT'S SOMEWHERE AROUND 7 TO $8,000 A MEGAWATT IS WHAT THEY'RE GOING TO PAY IN TAXES.

[00:55:07]

IT DIDN'T MAKE IT THROUGH, BUT IT WAS THE CAP.

BUT I THINK, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE GOING TO TRY AGAIN THIS YEAR TO TO TRY TO REDUCE THAT AS WELL.

WHY DIDN'T, YOU KNOW, IN THE COUNTY LEVEL, CAN YOU ENACT SOMETHING THAT CHANGES THE TAX? I MEAN, I MEAN, IF IF THAT HUNDRED ACRE FARM SOLD TO TO WALMART AND THEY PUT IN A DISTRIBUTION CENTER THERE, YOU CHANGE THE TAX ON IT, WOULDN'T YOU? I'M GUESSING SO.

I DON'T HAVE A CLEAR UNDERSTANDING IF THROUGH THE STATE OF MARYLAND TAX AND ASSESSMENT OFFICE, IF IT'S JUST A SOLAR TAX BASED ON THAT PROJECT, OR IF IT'S A TAX APPLIED TO THAT INDIVIDUAL LAND.

I DON'T HAVE A CLEAR UNDERSTANDING OF THAT MEGAWATT TAX.

YEAH. SO THEY'RE STILL PAYING THE AG.

THEY'RE STILL GOING TO TAX IT CONVERTS TO COMMERCIAL PROPERTY.

IT CONVERTS. IT CONVERTS TO COMMERCIAL PROPERTY.

IT'S STILL NOT THE THE AG THE AG.

OKAY. THE AG RIGHT.

YEAH. AND BUT YOU KNOW WHAT TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION.

YOU'RE PAYING A TAX ON THE THE VALUE OF THE SOLAR PANELS.

SO IT'S ACTUALLY A PERSONAL PROPERTY TAX ON THE SOLAR PANELS ITSELF.

SO, SO SO WHAT ABOUT THE IF IT'S A LEASED PROPERTY.

HOW HOW DO WE HOW? IT'S STILL SOMEBODY STILL GOT TO PAY THE TAX.

THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING. I'M SAYING SOMEBODY STILL GOT TO PAY.

HOW DO WE HOW IS THAT SET UP WHERE THAT'S THAT BECOMES A TAX BASE FOR THE CAROLINE COUNTY.

HOW IS THAT? IT STILL BECOMES IT'S STILL TAXED THE SAME WAY.

SO EITHER EITHER THE LANDOWNERS GOT TO PAY IT OR THE SOLAR PANELS SEE THAT THAT THAT THAT.

THAT'S ONE OF THE THINGS WE HAD SOME GENTLEMEN IN HERE EARLIER.

HE WAS, YOU KNOW, A COUPLE OF WEEKS AGO.

YEAH. AND HE WAS TALKING ABOUT HIS LAND BEING LEASED.

AND THEY WERE THEY WERE THEY OF COURSE, THEY WERE ALL IN SUPPORTING THE STOP LAUGHING.

AND AND THIS GENTLEMAN ACTUALLY DID NOT KNOW A LOT OF DETAILS ABOUT WHAT WAS GOING ON.

THAT'S WHAT I WONDERED.

BECAUSE SOLAR AND UNLESS THE STATE COMES, TAKES THE PROPERTY.

RIGHT. AND THE ONLY WAY THEY CAN GET IT IS IF THESE FARMERS GIVE IT TO THEM.

SO, RIGHT.

IF WE TEACH THEM TO QUIT RENTING THIS PROPERTY RIGHT NOW, WHEN YOUR WHEN YOUR FAMILY FARM THAT YOU JUST PAY $1,000 A YEAR FOR JUST WENT TO $10,000, THEY GET THEIR ATTENTION OF GOING.

MY TAX BILL JUST WENT UP.

RIGHT. AND THAT'S THE SECOND PART.

SO HOW DO WE TEACH YOU AND HOW DO WE NOW NOW HOW DO WE EDUCATE THESE FARMERS TO QUIT DOING THIS AND TO GO HIRE AN ATTORNEY? READ YOUR LEASE AGREEMENT BECAUSE YOU KNOW, WHO KNOWS.

AND AGAIN, I'M YOU'RE SPEAKERS]. TELL THEM WHAT WE'VE DONE WITH THE DECOMMISSIONING BOND.

CAN YOU TOUCH ON THAT? YES. A WEEK OR SO AGO, I GOT AN EMAIL FROM THE PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION ASSOCIATE STAFF COUNSEL POSING A QUESTION TO CAROLINE COUNTY.

CHERRYWOOD FILED A LETTER WITH THE PSC INDICATING THAT IT WAS GOING TO INCREASE THE AMOUNT OF THE DECOMMISSIONING BOND BECAUSE OF A AUGUST 6TH VOTE BY THE COUNTY COMMISSIONERS OF OF CAROLINE COUNTY.

AND THE PSC SENT US A QUESTION, WHICH IS WHY DID CAROLINE COUNTY DECIDE TO REVISE ITS DECOMMISSIONING REQUIREMENTS? SO I WROTE THEM BACK UP AND THE PEOPLE COPIED ON THIS WERE ABOUT TWO DOZEN PEOPLE.

THEY WERE LAWYERS WHO REPRESENT CHERRYWOOD.

IT WAS ALL OF THE ATTORNEYS FOR THE PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION, PEOPLE'S COUNSEL.

ANYWAY, SO NO ONE HAS RESPONDED TO MY RESPONSE YET, BUT MY RESPONSE WAS THAT CAROLINE COUNTY DID NOT REVISE ITS DECOMMISSIONING REQUIREMENTS. AND I CITED THE STATUTE, THE ORDINANCE THAT WE ALREADY HAVE, WHICH SAYS THAT THE COSTS OF DECOMMISSIONING SHALL BE SECURED BY A PERFORMANCE BOND OR SOME OTHER SECURITY. I SAID IN ALL, THREE PRIOR SOLAR FACILITIES THAT HAVE BEEN APPROVED AND PERMITTED IN CAROLINE COUNTY WERE REQUIRED TO SUBMIT BONDS IN THE FULL AMOUNT OF THE DECOMMISSIONING, THE ESTIMATED DECOMMISSIONING COSTS, AND THAT THIS PAST SUMMER,

[01:00:08]

THIS IS ALL GUESSWORK, BY THE WAY.

THE DEDUCTION OF THE SALVAGE VALUE FROM THE AMOUNT OF THE BONDS, AND IN THE CHERRYWOOD CASE, THE ESTIMATED COST OF DECOMMISSIONING WERE $15 MILLION. AND THEY SUBMITTED A PLAN TO CRYSTAL'S OFFICE, WHICH REDUCED THE AMOUNT BECAUSE THE SALVAGE VALUE IS $10 MILLION.

SO WE SHOULD ONLY HAVE TO POST A BOND FOR $5 MILLION.

AND OF COURSE, IF YOU THINK ABOUT IT, THE BOND IS IN FAVOR OF THE COUNTY.

THE COUNTY DOESN'T OWN THE LAND.

THE COUNTY DOESN'T HAVE THE RIGHT TO WALK ONTO SOMEBODY ELSE'S PROPERTY AND START TEARING UP THE STUFF THAT'S ON IT.

SO THAT'S A WHOLE NOTHER ISSUE THAT NONE OF THESE PEOPLE OVER THERE HAD EVER HAD.

I CAN TELL YOU, THEY NEVER THOUGHT THIS THROUGH.

ALSO, THE FACT THAT ALL THE EQUIPMENT IS SUBJECT TO A SECURITY INTEREST GRANTED IN A FINANCING STATEMENT THAT'S RECORDED LIKE A MORTGAGE ON YOUR FARM OR MORTGAGE ON YOUR HOUSE.

SO THE TITLE IS ENCUMBERED, HELD BY THE CREDITOR TO MAKE SURE IT GETS ITS EITHER ITS CAPITAL INVESTMENT BACK OR THE AMOUNT OF THE LOAN THEY LOANED CHERRYWOOD SOLAR ONE.

AND THE PROBLEMS WITH THE COLLATERAL EVER BEING RELEASED IS SOMEBODY'S GOT TO TRACK DOWN WHOEVER THE CURRENT CREDITOR IS. FAST FORWARD 15, 20, 25 YEARS FROM NOW.

YOU GOT TO FIND OUT WHOEVER THAT PERSON IS OR THAT BANK IS OR WHATEVER IT IS.

YOU GOT TO GET A RELEASE RECORDED BEFORE TITLE TO THAT EQUIPMENT CAN BE SOLD.

SO ALL OF THIS IS COMPLICATED.

THE THE PROJECT OWNER COULD BE IN BANKRUPTCY.

THERE'S BEEN AT LEAST ONE CASE I'VE READ ABOUT WHERE THEY DID DECLARE BANKRUPTCY AND THEY BASICALLY ABANDONED SHIP.

SO THE SOLAR ARRAY IS SITTING THERE, AND I'VE SEEN PHOTOGRAPHS FROM AROUND THE COUNTRY OF SOLAR ARRAYS THAT ARE SITTING THERE ROTTING.

NO ONE'S DECOMMISSIONED THEM.

THEY'RE SITTING THERE ON FARMLAND.

SO IT DOES HAPPEN.

SO I'VE LAID ALL THIS OUT IN A VERY LENGTHY EMAIL TO THOSE FOLKS ON THE WESTERN SHORE, AND NO ONE HAS RESPONDED.

NOT ANYONE.

I THINK THEY'RE ALL GOING WHAT? WHAT WE WERE AFRAID OF.

SO WE'RE AFRAID OF THAT.

YOU KNOW, THESE COMPANIES WOULD JUST GO BELLY UP.

YEAH. AND THEN YOU GOT ALL THIS STUFF LAYING THERE, AND WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO WITH IT? YOU KNOW, WE'RE LOOKING AT IT. [INAUDIBLE] THAT'S WHY WE WANTED TO UP TO DECOMMISSIONING BOND TO FULL VALUE, NOT JUST RECYCLE VALUE, BECAUSE THAT'S JUST HYPOTHETICAL. YOU KNOW, THAT CHANGES FROM YEAR TO YEAR.

YEAH, BECAUSE BANKRUPTCY GIVES THEM THE OPPORTUNITY TO WALK AWAY.

WALK AWAY. RIGHT. THEY CAN WALK AWAY.

AND WHAT HAPPENS IS, IS EVEN IF EVEN IF YOU COULD CLEAR THE TITLE TO THE EQUIPMENT, EVEN IF YOU COULD FIND A MARKET FOR IT, THE NET PROCEEDS AFTER YOU'VE PAID OFF ANY OUTSTANDING CREDITOR, IF THEY'RE IN BANKRUPTCY, GOES TO THE TRUSTEE IN BANKRUPTCY. THE TRUSTEE IN BANKRUPTCY IS REQUIRED TO FOLLOW THIS LAUNDRY LIST OF WHO GETS PAID FIRST.

AND GUESS WHAT? WE WILL NOT BE ON THAT LIST.

AND SO THE WHOLE THING IS SO IT'S SMOKE AND MIRRORS TO DEDUCT SALVAGE VALUE FROM A DECOMMISSIONING BOND.

IT'S JUST SMOKE AND MIRRORS.

IT IS ABSOLUTELY UNFAIR TO THE PUBLIC.

IT'S UNFAIR TO THE THE LESSORS.

THE FARMERS THAT ARE LEASING THIS PROPERTY WHO'VE BEEN, IN MOST CASES ARE NOT CONSULTING ATTORNEYS.

THEY DON'T KNOW WHAT THE LEASE IS REALLY DOING TO THEM.

IT DOESN'T UNDERSTAND THAT THEY WERE, AS MR. SPEARING SAID HERE AT THE LAST MEETING, THAT WELL, I WAS TOLD, RIGHT.

I WAS TOLD THEY WEREN'T GOING TO TOUCH MY TOPSOIL, THAT THEY WERE JUST GOING TO COME IN AND PLOP THE PILINGS DOWN.

THE SOLAR PANELS WOULD BE THERE FOR 25 YEARS, AND THEY'D BE RIPPED UP, AND I COULD START FARMING RIGHT AWAY.

WELL, IT TURNS OUT THAT'S NOT TRUE.

AND SO I THINK THAT'S WHAT YOU, I THINK YOU MENTIONED ABOUT DO WE HAVE A CLASS OR SOMETHING TO EDUCATE SOME OF OUR PROPERTY OWNERS? YEAH.

IN CAROLINE COUNTY ON, AS YOU JUST SAID, THE PROS AND CONS TO THIS AND SORT OF BEFORE THEY ENTER INTO ANY

[01:05:03]

AND SO THAT WE WON'T HAVE SOMEBODY LIKE THIS GENTLEMAN CAME IN LAST WEEK AND, AND JUST BASICALLY HAD AN AGREEMENT OR HAD A COMMISSIONER THAT WAS BASICALLY A HANDSHAKE, YOU KNOW, AGREEMENT THERE.

AND, YOU KNOW, I'M GOING TO SUSTAIN FROM ANY COMMENT THERE.

I'VE HAD I'VE HAD PRIVATE CONVERSATIONS WITH CERTAIN ONES ABOUT THAT.

SO I, I HEARD ABOUT THE STORY.

YEAH. SO I'M GOING TO SUSTAIN FROM THAT.

BUT THAT'S WHAT I'M JUST SAYING.

IT MAY. YEAH.

I THINK FOR US TO LOOK OUT FOR OUR COUNTY PROPERTY OWNERS THAT WE SHOULD EVEN IF IT'S A, EVEN IF IT'S SOMETHING SET UP ON A A VIRTUAL CLASS OR SOMETHING THAT COULD BE DESIGNED, ESPECIALLY SINCE WE GOT SO MANY PEOPLE AND [INAUDIBLE].

WE NEED TO LET THEM KNOW BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, IT'S A GREAT IDEA.

THAT IN THAT POSITION, BUT I MEAN, I MEAN, I DON'T THINK LIKE FARM BUREAU OR ANY OF THOSE HAVE MADE A CONCRETE STATEMENT BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, IT'S ALL RIGHTS OF YOUR LAND.

I MEAN, IF YOU WANT TO PUT SOLAR ON IT, YOU CAN PUT SOLAR.

[INAUDIBLE] NO, I MEAN, THEY'RE PRO AG, OBVIOUSLY, BUT THE MARYLAND FARM BUREAU, THE MARYLAND GRAIN PRODUCERS ASSOCIATION, THE DELMARVA CHICKEN ASSOCIATION, AND HORIZON FARM CREDIT, THAT'S MID-ATLANTIC FARM, MID-ATLANTIC.

OKAY. I'LL EMAIL YOU ALL THE ARTICLE, BUT THEY ARE STARTING TO WEIGH IN ABOUT.

IS ANYBODY STARTING TO ADD UP WHAT THE IMPACT OF REMOVING AGRICULTURAL LAND FROM USE FOR SOLAR? HAS ANYBODY STARTED CALCULATING WHAT THAT IMPACT THE DOMINO EFFECT? YES. THEY HAVE WEIGHED IN AND THEIR RECOMMENDATION IS MOVE SLOWER.

LOOK MORE AT URBAN LAND.

LET US STUDY THE IMPACTS, NOT JUST TO THE THE FARMER ON THE ACTUAL PROPERTY AND HIS EMPLOYEES, BUT THE SECONDARY INDUSTRIES THAT RELY ON A CERTAIN NUMBER OF FARMS HAPPENING. I MEAN, I THINK OF CAROLINE COUNTY.

AND WHEN YOU GO BELOW THAT NUMBER, THEN YOU'RE IMPACTING AN ENTIRELY NEW TIER OF, OF ECONOMIC BASE.

SO THEY ARE STARTING TO WEIGH IN.

AND THE LIST THAT WE USE TO TRY AND ISOLATE WHAT AREAS WE ABSOLUTELY DON'T WANT TO HAVE SOLAR DEVELOPMENT ON IS JUST BEGUN.

SO OUR NEXT ROUND IS TO LOOK AT LAND IN THE COUNTY THAT IS DESIGNATED AS PRIME FARMLAND AND FARMLAND OF STATEWIDE IMPORTANCE.

THOSE ARE USDA AND NRCS SOIL CLASSIFICATIONS.

SO EVERY COUNTY, EVERY STATE, IN EVERY, EVERY, EVERYWHERE IN THE COUNTRY HAS A SOIL MAP.

AND WITHIN THAT SOIL MAP ARE DISTINCTIONS OF SOILS AND QUALITIES OF SOILS.

SO PRIME FARMLAND IS DESIGNATED SOIL TYPE AND FARMLAND OF STATEWIDE IMPORTANCE IS DESIGNATED SOIL TYPE.

AND I'M JUST GOING TO READ YOU THE FIRST DESCRIPTION PRIME FARMLAND, THIS IS USDA NRCS.

IT IS OF MAJOR IMPORTANCE IN MEETING THE NATION'S SHORT AND LONG RANGE NEEDS FOR FOOD AND FIBER.

BECAUSE THE SUPPLY OF HIGH QUALITY FARMLAND IS LIMITED THE U.S.

DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE RECOGNIZES THAT RESPONSIBLE LEVELS OF GOVERNMENT AS WELL AS INDIVIDUALS SHOULD ENCOURAGE AND FACILITATE THE WISE USE OF OUR NATION'S PRIME FARMLAND.

SO CAROLINE COUNTY HAS 91,000 ACRES OF PRIME FARMLAND.

WE'RE 200,000 ACRES TOTAL.

NOW I'M GOING TO READ YOU FARMLAND OF STATEWIDE IMPORTANCE, WHICH IS ESSENTIALLY THE SECOND TIER BELOW PRIME FARMLAND.

FARMLAND OF STATEWIDE IMPORTANCE IS CONSIDERED PRIME OR UNIQUE FOR THE PRODUCTION OF FOOD, FEED, FIBER, FORAGE AND OILSEED CROPS. SO PRIME FARMLAND IS NUMBER ONE.

FARMLAND OF STATEWIDE IMPORTANCE IS NUMBER TWO.

AND THE AND THE EMPHASIS IS YOU HAVE TO PROTECT THAT LAND FOR AGRICULTURE.

BECAUSE ONCE YOU START MOVING AGRICULTURAL OPERATIONS TO LESSER SOIL, IT'S MORE ERODIBLE BADLY DRAINED.

YOU BEGIN TO PLAY A LITTLE.

YOU'RE RISKING THE THE SECURITY OF THE FOOD SUPPLY.

[01:10:02]

SO WE'VE GOT 150,000 ACRES OF PRIORITY FARMLAND OUT OF OUR 200,000 ACRES.

AND I THINK THAT IS A REASONABLE AREA TO LOOK AT FOR LIMITING HOW MUCH WE WANT TO LET GO TO SO.

ALL RIGHT. AND, AND WE WANT TO TALK TO AGRICULTURE, TO THE DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE TO SEE BECAUSE WE'RE NOT THE ONLY AG COUNTY BEING IMPACTED BY THIS.

WE'RE THE NUMBER TWO PRODUCER FOR POULTRY.

WE'RE THE NUMBER TWO PRODUCER FOR GRAIN.

AND I CAN'T REMEMBER ALL THE OTHER CROPS, BUT WE'RE A SIGNIFICANT PRODUCER.

AND IF WE CHIP AWAY 10 OR 20,000 ACRES, WHAT'S THE IMPACT AT THE LOCAL LEVEL ON AN ECONOMIC SCALE AND THE SUPPORT INDUSTRIES THAT COULD POTENTIALLY BE HURT? WHAT'S THE IMPACT AT THE STATE LEVEL, NOT JUST ECONOMICALLY, BUT FOOD SUPPLY AND PRIME FARMLAND IS A NATIONAL DESIGNATION THAT IS NATIONAL IMPORTANCE STATEWIDE AND STATEWIDE PRIME FARMLAND IS NATIONAL IMPORTANCE.

SO WHEN WE START PULLING THAT THREAD, EVERYBODY NEEDS TO UNDERSTAND WHAT WE'RE ABOUT TO UNRAVEL AND WHAT THE IMPACTS TO THAT ARE.

AND I THINK THAT'S A VALID DEBATE THAT WE CAN HAVE THAT I THINK ALL OF THE COUNTIES THAT ARE IN THIS POSITION ARE GOING TO START MAKING AND, AND THIS IS THE FIRST THING I'VE SEEN WHERE SOMEBODY IS SAYING, DOES ANYBODY UNDERSTANDING THE POTENTIAL IMPACTS HERE? SO WE'LL LOOK AT THAT AS WE GO FORWARD IN THE NEXT MONTH OR TWO.

AND WE'LL BE WORKING WITH MACO ON THOSE DISCUSSIONS AND ON OTHER AG COUNTIES TO SEE WHAT THEY'RE THINKING OF.

BUT I THINK THAT'S THE MOST CRITICAL DISCUSSION RIGHT NOW THAT WE CAN MAKE.

WELL, WHAT'S OUR NUMBER? IF YOU GOT 150,000 IN JUST THOSE TWO DESIGNATIONS, AND THEN YOU TAKE OUT THE TOWNS AND THEIR GROWTH AREAS.

THOSE ARE ABOUT THE TOWN'S TOTAL, A LITTLE LESS THAN 10,000M.

SO I MEAN, WE'RE, YOU KNOW, AT THE AT THE END, JUST, YOU KNOW, AT THE END, WHERE DOES THAT LEAVE US? I THINK THE TOTAL FOR YEAH, 111,000 IN PRODUCTION.

SO MOST OF THE COUNTY IS EXEMPLARY SOILS.

THE 2022 ACCENTS IS SET 111,000 ACRES ARE IN AG PRODUCTION.

SO THAT INCLUDES CROPS, POULTRY OPERATIONS, ALL AGRICULTURAL BASED PRODUCTS, KINDS OF THINGS.

NOW SEE, THE ONLY THING IS IT'S HOW MANY PEOPLE ARE REPORTING IT.

YOU DON'T REALLY KNOW.

BUT FOR IT TO BE REPRESENTED ON THE AG CENSUS YOU'VE GOT TO HAVE AT LEAST $1,000 OF PROFITS ON AGRICULTURAL BASED PRODUCTS ON THAT FARM IN PARTICULAR.

SO YOU ALWAYS SEE A REDUCTION IN PRODUCTION OF AG LAND, BUT IT DOESN'T NECESSARILY MEAN THAT EVERYONE'S REPORTING. SO WE MAY ACTUALLY HAVE MORE THAN WHAT'S ACTUALLY THERE THAN REPRESENTED IN THE AG CENSUS.

PLUS IT'S EVERY FIVE YEARS.

SO THERE'S A BIT OF A GAP, THERE'S A BIT OF A GAP THERE.

SO WE'RE LOOKING AT THAT NOW I MEAN, WE'VE LOOKED AT ALL THE OBVIOUS AREAS WHERE WE WOULD SAY, THIS IS THIS IS WHERE WE DON'T WANT IT, BUT NOW WE'RE GOING INTO THE WHAT SHOULD BE OBVIOUS, BUT IT'S A LITTLE DEEPER.

AND THAT IS LOOKING AT WHAT KIND OF VALUABLE AGRICULTURAL LAND ARE WE PUTTING AT RISK? WE ARE THE PRIME FARMLAND.

50,000 ACRES OR PIECED AROUND.

THEY'RE NOT LIKE ONE BIG CHUNK OVER HERE ON THE LEFT.

SO THEY'RE KIND OF THREADED THROUGH.

AND I THINK A LARGE PART OF THOSE ARE FORESTS AND WETLANDS.

POORLY DRAINED SOILS.

SO YEAH.

ANYWAY, I'LL EMAIL YOU ALL THE LINK TO THIS ARTICLE.

AND IT'S ALSO EASTERN SHORE LAND CONSERVANCY WITH THESE AG INDUSTRY REPS COLLECTIVELY SAYING WE NEED TO TAKE ACTION.

AND WE DO HAVE MACO'S LEGISLATIVE STAFF THAT'S GOING TO COME IN AND TALK TO THE COUNTY COMMISSIONERS.

AND WE THOUGHT, YOU KNOW, IF THE PLANNING COMMISSION WOULD LIKE TO HAVE THAT AS WELL, WE CAN ARRANGE FOR THAT TO HAPPEN TOO.

LIKE A BRIEFING.

SURE. YEAH, I LIKE THAT.

BECAUSE THEY HAVE TO ANSWER.

[01:15:06]

YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN? AND BY THE SAME TOKEN, WE HAVE TO TELL THEM WHY WE WANT TO LIMIT IT TO THIS AMOUNT.

IT CAN'T JUST BE BECAUSE WE WANT TO RIGHT NOW.

BECAUSE IT'S ECONOMICALLY WE HAVE TO LIMIT IT.

WE HAVE TO MAKE THE CASE.

AND I THINK WITHOUT AG, THIS COUNTY IS IN TROUBLE.

YEAH. BIG TIME.

YES. I HAVE AN IDEA.

I'M NOT SURE WHETHER IT WILL BEAR FRUIT OR NOT, BUT THE SECRETARY OF THE DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE IS SOMEBODY THAT'S BECOME KNOWN TO US IN A DIFFERENT ARENA INVOLVING [INAUDIBLE], AND I WONDER IF A CONFERENCE WITH HIM AND HIS STAFF MIGHT BEAR FRUIT, AND ALSO GET THEM TO CONTACT THEIR FEDERAL COUNTERPARTS AT THE US DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE AND GET SOME FEDERAL MUSCLE DOWN HERE TO PROTECT WHAT WE'VE GOT.

THAT IS ONE IDEA.

THE OTHER THING IS, AND I'VE SAID SOMETHING TO MATT AND CRYSTAL ABOUT THIS, I SAID, THE NEXT TIME WE'RE GOING TO HAVE A PUBLIC HEARING IN FRONT OF A PUBLIC UTILITY LAW JUDGE LIKE WE'VE HAD BEFORE, WE WANT TO BE GEARED UP FOR BATTLE, LIKE GOING TO A JURY TRIAL. JUST BECAUSE THE LAW SEEMS TO BE THAT THE COUNTIES ARE PREEMPTED AND THAT THE DECISION IS THE PSCS.

IT IS NOT A FOREGONE CONCLUSION THAT A PUBLIC UTILITY LAW JUDGE WON'T ONE DAY SAY NO.

IN FACT, THEY SAID NO.

JUST TO GIVE YOU A QUICK OVERVIEW, MILL BRANCH MILLS BRANCH SOLAR, LLC, KENT COUNTY, MARYLAND, 2017.

THE PSC, THROUGH THE PUBLIC UTILITY LAW JUDGE, DENIED THE CPCN FOR A 60 MILLIWATT MEGAWATT UTILITY SOLAR FACILITY, FOCUSING ESPECIALLY ON OPPOSITION FROM THE COUNTY.

THE PUBLIC UTILITY LAW JUDGE AGREED WITH THE COUNTY THAT THE PROJECT WAS CONTRARY TO THE LOCAL ZONING REQUIREMENTS AND WITH THE COUNTY'S ASSESSMENT OF THE FOLLOWING IMPACTS OF THE PROJECT. QUOTE.

THE LOSS OF PRIME FARM SOIL FROM CROP PRODUCTION, THE NEGATIVE IMPACT UPON THE VIEW SCAPE, THE HARM TO THE TOURIST INDUSTRY, THE NEGATIVE EFFECT ON HISTORIC SITES.

AND WE'VE GOT HARRIET TUBMAN, RIGHT? AND THE HERITAGE AREA.

TUBMAN, AS WELL AS THE LOSS OF LOCAL CONTROL OVER THE TYPE AND LOCATION OF INDUSTRIAL SIZED SOLAR FARM DEVELOPMENT IN THE COUNTY.

END QUOTE. FOUND THAT, QUOTE, THE WEIGHT OF THE EVIDENCE PERTAINING TO THE LOCATION OF THE PROJECT IS MORE NEGATIVE THAN POSITIVE IN ITS PERSUASIVE VALUE OF CREATING BENEFITS TO KENT COUNTY AND MARYLAND, AND THAT THE PROPOSED LICENSING CONDITIONS FOR THE PROJECT WERE, QUOTE, INADEQUATE TO MITIGATE THE NEGATIVES CREATED BY THE LOCATION.

END QUOTE. QUOTE.

LOCAL OPPOSITION WAS BASED UPON A REASONABLE APPLICATION OF LAND USE POLICIES THAT ARE BASED UPON THE LOCAL KNOWLEDGE OF WHAT IS THE BEST POLICY FOR THE CITIZENS OF THE COUNTY.

LOCAL CONTROL OVER THE AMOUNT, LOCATION AND TYPE OF DEVELOPMENT MUST BE RESPECTED BY THE COMMISSION WHEN THERE IS NO WEIGHT OF EVIDENCE OF NEED OR BENEFIT TO OUTWEIGH THE LOCAL OPPOSITION.

THE WEIGHT OF THE EVIDENCE OF HARM BEING CAUSED IF THE PROJECT IS BUILT WAS SIGNIFICANT, AND WAS A MAJOR FACTOR IN THIS DECISION TO DENY THE APPLICATION.

SO THAT'S THE ONLY ONE THAT I HAVE BEEN ABLE TO FIND WHERE THE COUNTY BEAT THEM, BUT THEY BEAT THEM, NOT IN COURT. THEY BEAT THEM AT THAT PUBLIC HEARING.

AND SO WHAT I'VE BEEN TALKING WITH MATT AND CRYSTAL ABOUT IS, AND LESLIE IS PREPARING A GAME PLAN FOR THE NEXT ONE THAT COMES ALONG AND BE PREPARED.

I MEAN, I'M TALKING ABOUT MAYBE EVEN HAVING SECRETARY ADDICKS COME TO IT.

HAVE PEOPLE GEARED UP TO TESTIFY? PRESIDENT OF THE LOCAL FARM BUREAU, PERHAPS, YOU KNOW, JUST FULL COURT PRESS.

AND THAT PARTICULAR LAW JUDGE WENT WITH THE COUNTY.

SO IT IS POSSIBLE THAT YOU CAN BEAT THESE PEOPLE, BUT IT'S GOING TO TAKE A LOT OF GEARING UP, AND I'D LIKE TO DO IT NOW, OR START NOW AND NOT WAIT TILL THE LAST SECOND WHERE WE'VE GOT LIKE 30 DAYS TO GET THIS THING.

WE DO HAVE ONE COMING THAT HAS STATED THEIR INTENTION.

THEY'RE WORKING ON THEIR APPLICATION RIGHT NOW.

SO HERE WE GO.

[01:20:01]

NO. WELL, I THINK I THINK THESE INDUSTRIES WHO HAVE SIGNED ON TO THIS WOULD BE ALLIES. I DO UM, ONE OF THEIR POINTS IS AND I'LL READ IT.

SOLAR ISN'T A TEMPORARY LAND USE, EVEN WITH THE BEST POLICY SIDEBOARDS TO ENSURE TOPSOIL REMAINS ON SITE, THE LIKELIHOOD THAT ACREAGE DEDICATED TO SOLAR ARRAYS WILL RETURN TO AGRICULTURAL PRODUCTION IS SLIM.

FARM LEASES FOR SOLAR DEVELOPMENT SPANNED DECADES, AND THE STATE'S AMBITIONS FOR RENEWABLE ENERGY SIMPLY WON'T ABIDE TAKING PROVEN GENERATION OFFLINE IN THE FUTURE.

WHAT'S MORE, IS THAT FAR FROM JUST TAKING FARMLAND OUT OF PRODUCTION, SOLAR PROJECTS PUT FARMERS OUT OF WORK, LOSING HUNDREDS OF ACRES OF TILLABLE GROUND TO SOLAR LEAVES INDIVIDUAL FARMERS SCRAMBLING TO FIND NEW ACRES IN AN EVER SHRINKING, FARMABLE LANDSCAPE.

FURTHERMORE, AND I NEED TO FIND OUT WHERE THEY GOT THIS.

FOR EVERY ONE ACRE TAKEN OUT OF AGRICULTURAL PRODUCTION, THERE IS A SEVEN FOLD IMPACT ON THE LOCAL ECONOMY.

AND THOSE ARE THOSE HIDDEN IMPACTS THAT YOU JUST DON'T THINK ABOUT.

THE SEED SUPPLIER, THE TRACTOR REPAIR GUY, THE TRUCK DRIVER.

YOU KNOW, WE HAVEN'T EVEN BEGUN TO LOOK AT THOSE IMPACTS, THAT TAKES TIME.

SO THAT'S INFO THAT WE'LL BE GATHERING HOPEFULLY WITH HELP FROM FROM THIS FROM THIS CROWD.

YEAH. ONCE YOU TOUCH IT IT'S NEVER SEEN.

IT'S NEVER. NO NO NO.

I MEAN, THEY CAN SAY ALL THEY WANT, BUT AND THE AG EASEMENT MONEY IS A GOOD THING.

I MEAN, THAT IS A THAT'S A GOOD THAT'S A POSITIVE.

HOWEVER, THEY WE HAVE TO KEEP REMINDING THEM THAT IF YOU ARE LOSING 20,000 ACRES AND THAT 20,000 ACRES NETS YOU MONEY TO GO PRESERVE FARMS OVER HERE, THAT ARE THEY ARE FARMS RIGHT NOW.

SO WE PRESERVE WHAT'S ALREADY EXISTING.

BUT YOU STILL LOST THAT 20,000.

SO THERE'S A NET LOSS.

IT'S A IT'S A GOOD EFFORT.

AND IF THAT BECOMES ONE OF THE ONLY THINGS THAT CAN COME OUT OF THIS, IT'S A GOOD EFFORT.

BUT THERE'S STILL A NET LOSS.

AND THAT'S THE PART THAT I THINK WE NEED TO ADDRESS.

SINCE THEY PUT SO MUCH EFFORT INTO THIS MAP, I MEAN, DO YOU FORESEE THIS BEING A REQUIREMENT ON THE COUNTIES TO SUBMIT SOMETHING LIKE THIS MAP? NO, I DON'T THINK THEY'RE GOING TO SAY YOU NEED TO HAVE A SOLAR DISTRICT.

OKAY. THE ONLY POINT OF THAT PARAMETER WAS THAT'S WHERE THEY'RE GOING TO GO FIRST.

YEAH. EVENTUALLY THAT WILL BE USED UP AND THEY'LL GO OUT FROM THERE.

BUT THAT'S LIKELY WHERE THEY'LL GO FIRST UNTIL THEY CAN'T AND THEY'LL AND THEY'LL PAY THE HIGHER COST TO GO OUT FROM THERE.

SO DON'T GET TOO HUNG UP ON THAT CORRIDOR.

THAT'S SIMPLY LIKELY WHERE THEY'RE GOING TO GO FIRST.

AND SOMETHING ELSE I PICKED UP ON, IF I READ IT CORRECTLY IF LAND HAS ALREADY BEEN PRESERVED, THEY COULD PAY OFF THE EASEMENT.

OKAY. NO, BECAUSE I THOUGHT SO TOO WHEN I READ IT, I THOUGHT I'D LOSE MY MIND.

LIKE THEY WOULD PAY OFF WHAT THE EASEMENT PAID.

AND I'M LIKE, IF THAT WAS 20 YEARS AGO, THAT'S NOTHING.

NO, THEY CAN'T UNDO A PERMANENT EASEMENT.

THEY CAN'T. SO WHEN THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT PAYING FOR AN EASEMENT THE RURAL LEGACY AREAS, WHICH ARE DESIGNATED AREAS WHERE YOU CAN PURCHASE AN EASEMENT FROM THE RURAL LEGACY PROGRAM.

JUST BECAUSE YOU'RE IN A RURAL LEGACY AREA DOESN'T MEAN YOU HAVE AN EASEMENT.

IT JUST MEANS YOU'RE ELIGIBLE TO GET AN EASEMENT.

SO AND SOME PEOPLE IN THOSE HAVE THEM.

SO RURAL LEGACY AREAS, PRIORITY PRESERVATION AREAS, WHICH ARE COUNTY IS ALMOST ENTIRELY A DESIGNATED PRIORITY PRESERVATION AREA.

WE DON'T HAVE AN EASEMENT PROGRAM FOR THAT NOW.

IF A SOLAR DEVELOPER AND THIS IS ALL DRAFT, THIS IS NOT FIRM.

THIS IS WHAT THE LATEST IS FOR THE UPCOMING LEGISLATURE.

IF A SOLAR DEVELOPER WANTS TO PUT A PROJECT IN AN AREA THAT IS A DESIGNATED POTENTIAL EASEMENT PROGRAM, LIKE RURAL LEGACY OR, OR PRIORITY PRESERVATION, WHICH IN OUR CASE IS MALFEASANCE.

IF THERE IS NO EASEMENT ON THAT PROPERTY, THE DEVELOPER STILL HAS TO PAY TO THE COUNTY WHAT IT WOULD HAVE COST HIM IF THAT FARMER HAD PUT IT INTO AN EASEMENT. SO IF AS IF MOUTH WAS GOING TO PAY FOR AN EASEMENT ON THAT PROPERTY, THE SOLAR DEVELOPER WOULD HAVE TO PAY ON CURRENT LEVELS.

I MEAN, WHAT'S IT BASED ON? HIGHER. HIGHER.

AND IF YOU GO OUT OF THAT CORRIDOR [INAUDIBLE].

SO AND THAT'S WHERE THE COUNTY WOULD GET THAT MONEY, AND THEN THE COUNTY COULD TURN AROUND AND USE THAT TO PURCHASE AN EASEMENT IN ANOTHER PLACE.

SO BUT YOU'RE STILL LOSING THAT RIGHT.

[01:25:02]

SO THAT'S A IT'S A IT'S A GREAT PLAN.

IF YOU DON'T THINK ABOUT THAT YOU'RE LOSING TO GET THAT.

BUT YOU'RE LOSING AG LAND TO GET THAT AG EASEMENT.

SO BUT NO I FIRST READ IT THAT WAY TOO.

THAT WAIT A MINUTE. THEY'RE BUYING EASEMENTS.

YEAH. LIKE NO NO NO NO.

RIGHT. BUT NO, THAT'S THAT'S WHAT THAT MEANS.

SO ANY EXISTING EASEMENT, ANY AG HISTORIC OR CULTURAL EASEMENT THAT'S IN PLACE OR STATE EASEMENT IS THEY CAN'T GO THERE.

SO WE'LL BE BACK IN OCTOBER TO TALK MORE ABOUT THIS.

WHEN DOES THE SESSION START? OCTOBER. I DON'T KNOW.

STEWART, DO YOU KNOW WHEN? THE JANUARY.

JANUARY? OH THAT'S RIGHT.

YEAH, BUT THEY'RE ALL THEY'RE ALL WORKING.

ALL THIS NEXT MONTH, MAYBE NEXT MONTH IN FRONT OF YOU GUYS.

I THINK HE'LL BE BEFORE YOU GUYS SOONER THAN THAT.

YEAH. SO DOES MACO [INAUDIBLE] MUCH POWER IN THE PAST TO REALLY HAVE A VOICE IN THE LEGISLATION? THE GOVERNOR LISTENS TO HIM.

I MEAN, NOT HIM, THEM, THE ORGANIZATION.

YOU KNOW, NOT ALL, NOT ON EVERYTHING.

BUT THEY DO CARRY A LOT OF WEIGHT, THEIR VOICE DOES.

AND THE GOVERNOR AND THE ADMINISTRATION DOES PAY ATTENTION TO WHAT THEY'RE WHAT THEY'RE SAYING, BUT THEY DON'T ALWAYS GO THAT WAY.

YOU KNOW, HE SAID, ALL THESE MISSIONS OR STANDARDS THAT HE WANTS TO MEET AND AND HE'S NOT FARMING, HE SAID.

YEAH. FOOD COMES FROM A GROCERY STORE.

YEAH, THAT'S WHERE HE BOUGHT IT.

COMES FROM BROWN COWS. OKAY.

ALL RIGHT. WELL, I'M GONNA HAVE FUN AT THIS CONFERENCE BECAUSE I'M GONNA ASK SOME QUESTIONS.

WITH IT I'M JUST LOOKING AT THIS CALENDAR.

WHAT'S THE DATE OF THE CONFERENCE? 20TH. AND WELL, IT STARTS ON THE 20TH RUNS THROUGH THE 24TH THROUGH THE 24TH OR 20.

TRYING TO GO TO AT LEAST ONE DAY.

GONNA BRING UP SOLAR PANELS.

OH, I'M SURE IT'S GOING TO BE A BIG TOPIC.

YEAH, I'M GONNA BRING THAT UP.

AND I JUST WANT TO HEAR SOME DIFFERENT VIEWS.

SINCE WE'RE GOING TO HAVE ALL THESE PEOPLE IN THE SAME ROOM AND SEE WHAT SEE WHAT THEIR IDEAS AND THINGS ARE ABOUT, YOU KNOW, FARMERS AND SEE IF THEY'VE HAD ANY PROBLEMS WITH LEASES AND LAND.

AND YOU KNOW HOW IMPORTANT THEY ARE.

I JUST WANT TO HEAR BECAUSE I WILL SAY THINGS.

I WILL JUST ABSOLUTELY.

YOU KNOW, I JUST WANT TO SAY, HAS ANYBODY THOUGHT OF THIS? I MEAN, THE SOLAR PANEL BUSINESS INDUSTRY IS THEY'RE VERY GOOD SALES, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE VERY POWERFUL.

YES. YES.

AND I AND I FEEL AS THOUGH THEY COME IN, THEY COME IN HERE AND THEY THEY FEEL AS THOUGH AND WE'VE HAD SOME RUMORS THAT THEY FEEL AS THOUGH OUT OF THE PLANNING COMMISSION'S OVER HERE IN THESE LITTLE, LITTLE SMALL TOWNS OR, OR, YOU KNOW YEAH.

YEAH. SO I THINK WHEN YOU, WHEN YOU JUST SAID YOU COME IN HERE LIKE WITH THE STRONG PRESENTATION ON SAYING, I THINK THEY'LL SEE THAT WE DID OUR HOMEWORK AND WE'RE DOING OUR HOMEWORK ON THAT.

I THINK LESLIE'S REALLY BEEN DIVING INTO THE SOILS THING.

YEAH. THE PAST FEW DAYS WELL, WE'RE ALSO LOOKING AT AND WE TALKED TO MACO ABOUT THIS.

YOU KNOW, THERE IS THERE IS THE POSSIBILITY OF ALLOWING SOLAR PANELS ON ROOFTOPS AND PARKING LOTS AND HIGHWAY MEDIANS, YOU KNOW, PUT IT IN THE BUILT ENVIRONMENT.

YES. WHERE IT CAN ACTUALLY CREATE SHADE OR, YOU KNOW, NOT DISTURB PRIME FARMLAND.

AND MOST PEOPLE KIND OF ARE ON BOARD WITH THAT.

SO WE ASKED MACO, CAN WE JUST GIVE THEM ALL OF OUR POTENTIAL ACREAGE THAT WAY? AND THEY SAID, YOU CAN TRY, BUT THEY'RE NOT GOING TO ACCEPT THAT BECAUSE THE SOLAR, IT COSTS MORE FOR A SOLAR DEVELOPER TO BUILD ON DEVELOPED LAND THAN TO JUST GO IN A PRISTINE FIELD. BUT THEY WILL ACCEPT SOME AMOUNT OF ACREAGE IN THAT FORM OF DEVELOPMENT.

SO MEGAN AND I ARE WORKING ON WE HAVE A BUILDABLE BUILDING LAYER, BUILDING FOOTPRINT LAYER THAT HAS SQUARE FOOTAGE OF

[01:30:09]

SO WE'RE GOING TO CUT. WE'RE GOING TO DETERMINE A LIMIT LIKE AT WHAT HOW MANY BUILDINGS DO WE HAVE AT 6000FT² AND ABOVE? HOW MANY TOTAL SQUARE FEET IS THAT.

CONVERT THAT TO A MILE CALCULATION AND THEN WITH PARKING LOTS AND IT'D PROBABLY BE HARDER WORK, BUT WE'LL LOOK AT MEDIANS OF HIGHWAYS. WE'LL JUST VOLUNTEER THE STATE HIGHWAY FOR IT.

RIGHT. AND COME UP WITH A POTENTIAL ACREAGE OF SOLAR DEVELOPMENT ON THOSE URBAN ACRES SO THAT WE HAVE THAT WE JUST WANT TO DO IT, DO THE EXERCISE, FIND OUT WHAT THAT WOULD YIELD.

AND YOU CAN CALCULATE KILOWATT AND MEGAWATT HOURS ON ACRES.

WE KNOW WHAT THE AG RATE IS ROUGHLY.

AND NOW WE'VE GOT TO GO FIND WHAT THE URBAN DEVELOPMENT RATE, YOU KNOW HOW MUCH GENERATES HOW MUCH POWER.

SO WE CAN COME UP WITH AN ACRE TOTAL OF URBAN LAND AND THE POTENTIAL MEGAWATT OUTPUT, AND ONE FOR RURAL LAND.

I JUST WE THINK IT'S A GOOD IDEA TO GO THROUGH THESE EXERCISES AND HAVE THIS INFO SO THAT WHEN THEY COME BACK TO US AND WANT TO KNOW, WELL, WHAT ARE THE OPTIONS FOR CAROLINE COUNTY? WE'VE GOT SOME NUMBERS AND THE REASONING BEHIND IT.

AND LESLIE, WOULD IT BE WORTHY OF DIGGING INTO OUR DATA FOR WHAT WE HAVE? WE KIND OF KNOW WHAT WE HAVE ON THE GROUND IN THE FORMS OF LARGE SCALE, BUT WE DO PERMIT THE RESIDENTIAL SOLAR JUST TO SEE HOW MUCH RESIDENTIAL SOLAR ALREADY OUT THERE THAT THAT.

AND WE COULD MAYBE EVEN GET THAT FROM THE TOWNS POSSIBLY.

RIGHT. AND, AND SEE WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE IN THE FORM OF RESIDENTIAL SOLAR, WHAT IS ALREADY OUT THERE ON THE GROUND NOW FOR RESIDENTIAL OUTSIDE OF THE LARGE SCALE.

YOU BROUGHT UP HOW MUCH CAPACITY? THAT WAS ONE OTHER THING WE WERE MISSING.

OUR TRANSMISSION LINES STILL HAVE.

I DON'T KNOW WHERE YOU GET THAT NUMBER FROM.

WE'RE FINE. WE'RE GETTING CLOSER TO FINDING IT.

I'VE BEEN READING THE ANNUAL POWER REPORTS THAT THE STATE PUTS OUT FOR ALL OF THE I THINK IT'S 6 OR 7 MAJOR POWER COMPANIES, AND THEY HAVE A TEN YEAR PLAN THAT THEY RELEASE EVERY YEAR.

AND THAT KIND OF SHOWS IF YOU DO SOME MATH AND EXTRAPOLATING NUMBERS, YOU CAN GET A FEEL FOR WHAT THEIR SHOWING IS HOW MUCH MORE WE CAN DO BEFORE WE HIT THE END OF THE OF THE TRAIL.

BUT IT'S NOT AN EASY NUMBER TO JUST IT'S NOT JUST PRINTED SOMEWHERE.

SO DELMARVA POWER IS NOT JUST GOING TO CALL YOU UP, AND I END UP CALLING THEM UP AND SAYING, CAN YOU TELL ME HOW MUCH CAPACITY YOU HAVE LEFT IN THIS TRANSMISSION LINE? AND MAYBE THEY'LL SAY, SURE, BECAUSE THAT'S JUST A WHOLE NOTHER WAY.

I MEAN, YOU GOT TEN PROJECTS SHOW UP, BUT THERE'S NOWHERE TO PUT IT, RIGHT? RIGHT. AND IT'S LIKE TEN YEARS BEFORE YOU CAN GET A NEW ONE.

SO IS THAT ANOTHER AVENUE THAT.

WHY ARE WE COMING UP WITH, YOU KNOW, HUNDREDS OF MEGAWATT HOURS FOR A TRANSMISSION LINE THAT ONLY HAS 50MW LEFT CAPACITY? WHAT'S THE POINT? AND I DON'T KNOW THAT THAT WOULD BE A VALID ARGUMENT TO USE, BUT THAT'S ANOTHER PIECE OF INFORMATION.

I THINK IT WOULD BE HELPFUL FOR US TO HAVE.

AND THE POULTRY HOUSES TOO.

I KNOW THE POULTRY INDUSTRY, THERE'S A LOT OF GROWERS INTERESTED IN THEM, BUT THEY'RE NOT NEAR A TRANSMISSION LINE OR.

NO, AND WHEN WE DO THE ASSESSMENT OF WHERE THESE URBAN POTENTIAL ACRES ARE WILL MAP THEM BECAUSE THEY'RE LOCATED.

THEY'RE GIS LOCATED.

SO WE KNOW WHERE THEY ARE IN PROXIMITY TO A TRANSMISSION LINE.

AND I ALSO DON'T KNOW ENOUGH YET TO KNOW IF BEING IN AN URBAN LOCATION IS THERE A DISTRIBUTION LINE THAT THEY CAN CONNECT TO IF IT'S A SMALLER WATTAGE, YOU KNOW, OVER 20MW I THINK THEY HAVE TO CONNECT TO A TRANSMISSION LINE.

BUT I THINK UNDER THAT THEY CAN CONNECT TO A DISTRIBUTION LINE, AND THERE'S A LOT MORE OF THOSE OUT THERE.

SPEAKERS].

ESPECIALLY IF IT'S A IT'S AN ABANDONED CHICKEN HOUSE, THAT'S ALL THEY'D HAVE TO GO IN AND SUPPORT THAT ROOF TO BEEF IT UP BECAUSE OF THE LOAD ON THE ROOF THAT THEY'D HAVE TO GO IN AND AND YOU MIGHT IF YOU'RE GOING TO DO THAT, YOU MIGHT AS WELL GROW CHICKENS AGAIN IF YOU'RE GOING TO PUT THAT MUCH MONEY INTO YOUR HOUSE.

BUT THERE'S ACTUALLY A FARMER NEAR ME WITH SIX LARGE, UPSCALE CHICKEN HOUSES.

[01:35:02]

SPEAKERS] WELL, I DON'T KNOW WHAT ANYBODY ELSE WANTS TO TALK ABOUT.

MATT HAS A BIRTHDAY PARTY TO GO TO, SO I DON'T THINK WE SHOULD HOLD HIM UP FOR HIS DAUGHTER.

OH, NO, I DON'T I DON'T WANT TO GET IN TROUBLE WITH HER.

WE KNOW HOW 12 YEAR OLD'S CAN BE 12 OR 10 OR WHATEVER.

12. 12. YEAH, WE KNOW HOW THEY CAN BE.

YEAH, BUT I KNOW.

DOES ANYBODY GOT ANYTHING ELSE THEY WANT TO DO TALK ABOUT? MOTION TO DISMISS OR ADJOURN, NOT TO DISMISS.

I'M A LAWYER NOW.

I MAKE A MOTION TO ADJOURN.

THAT A MOTION? I'LL SECOND IT.

ALL IN FAVOR, SAY AYE.

AYE. AYE.

YEAH. COMMISSIONER BARTZ, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

* This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.