>> WE HAVE ASSISTANT DIRECTOR OF DEVELOPMENT REVIEW MATT KOZINSKI.
[1) Opening]
[00:00:07]
THE BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS HAS THE POWER AND DUTY TO HEAR AND DECIDE APPLICATIONS FOR SPECIAL USE EXEMPTIONS, VARIANCES, APPEALS, WHERE IT IS ALLEGED THERE IS AN ERROR IN ANY ORDER, REQUIREMENT, DECISION, OR DETERMINATION MADE IN THE ENFORCEMENT OF THE ZONING CHAPTER OF THE CODE OF PUBLIC, LOCAL LAWS OF CAROLINE COUNTY, MARYLAND.THE APPLICANT WILL PRESENT THEIR REQUEST.
THEN WE WILL TAKE TESTIMONY FROM THOSE IN FAVOR OF THE APPLICATION, AND THEN WE WILL TAKE TESTIMONY FROM THOSE IN OPPOSITION OF THE APPLICATION.
ONCE THE TESTIMONY FROM BOTH SIDES HAS BEEN GIVEN, WE WILL ALLOW TIME FOR EACH SIDE TO ASK QUESTIONS OF THE OPPOSING SIDE.
ONLY THOSE WHO TESTIFY WILL BE ALLOWED TO ASK QUESTIONS AT THIS POINT.
ONCE CLOSING ARGUMENTS ARE COMPLETE, THE BOARD WILL CLOSE FOR DELIBERATION.
NO ONE FROM THE AUDIENCE MAY SPEAK WHILE THE BOARD DELIBERATES UNLESS THE BOARD ASKS FOR CLARIFICATIONS FROM THE AUDIENCE.
THE BOARD MAKES EVERY EFFORT TO DECIDE AN APPLICATION.
THE SAME NIGHT, THE TESTIMONY IS HEARD, OCCASIONALLY, THIS IS NOT POSSIBLE AND THE CONTINUANCE WILL BE GRANTED.
THE FIRST CASE TONIGHT WE'RE GOING TO DO THE TRIBUTE PROPERTIES.
[2) Tribbett Properties LLC- Special Use Exception No. 24-0042]
ANYBODY FROM THAT IS GOING TO DO ANY TESTIMONY OR TALK ON BEHALF OF THE TRIBUTE PROPERTIES? YOU NEED TO MAKE SURE YOU SIGNED UP AND THEN YOU NEED TO COME UP TO THE TABLE AND THEN SHOULD I DO THAT.>> YEAH ANYBODY THAT'S GOING TO STAND.
ANYBODY THAT WANTS TO TALK ABOUT THE TRIBUTE PROPERTIES? YOU GOT TO TAKE THE OATH. YOU WANT TO STAND UP AND SAY ANYTHING? ARE YOU GOING TO TALK. OKAY. ALL RIGHT, DAVE, SO YOU GOT TO DO THE OATH.
DO YOU HERE BY SOLOMON CLAIRE AND AFFIRM UNDER THE PENALTIES OF PERJURY, THAT THE STATEMENTS YOU MAKE AND THE TESTIMONY YOU GIVE IS THE TRUTH, THE WHOLE TRUTH, AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH?
>> OH, YEAH. STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS.
>> OKAY. NOTICE IS HEREBY GIVEN THAT THE CAROLINE COUNTY BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS WILL HOLD A PUBLIC HEARING ON TUESDAY, OCTOBER 15, 6:00 P.M. AT THE HEALTH AND PUBLIC SERVICES BUILDING.
FIRST FLOOR, ROOM 11143 SOUTH SEVENTH STREET, DENTON MARYLAND.
APPLICATION NUMBER 24-0042, A REQUEST BY TRIBUTE PROPERTIES, LLC FOR A SPECIAL USE EXCEPTION FOR A RENEWAL OF THE GRAVEL PIT SPECIAL USE EXEMPTION, SAID PROPERTY IS LOCATED AT 866 TUCKAHOE ROAD, DENTON, MARYLAND, AND IT IS FURTHER DESCRIBED AS TAX MATT SIX GRID 2, PARCEL 2, AND IS OWNED BY TRIBUTE PROPERTIES.
MATT, DO YOU WANT TO READ IN THE BOARD EXHIBITS?
SO EXHIBIT 1, WHICH WAS JUST READ AS A NOTICE OF PUBLIC HEARING, WHICH WAS PUBLISHED IN THE TIMES RECORD ON OCTOBER 2 AND OCTOBER 9.
EXHIBIT 2 IS THE STAFF REPORT.
EXHIBIT 4 IS THE SITE PLAN SET.
EXHIBIT 5 IS THE BUSINESS PLAN.
EXHIBIT 6 IS A MD SURFACE MINING LICENSE.
EXHIBIT 7 IS A WATER-SEWER VERIFICATION FROM THE HEALTH DEPARTMENT.
EXHIBIT 8 IS THE STAT REAL PROPERTY DATASET AND TAX MAP.
EXHIBIT 9 IS AERIAL OVERLAY WITH THE SURROUNDING AREA.
EXHIBIT 10 IS THE ADJOINING PROPERTY OWNER AFFIDAVIT.
EXHIBIT 11 IS THE SIGNED POSTING AFFIDAVIT AND PHOTOS, AND EXHIBIT 12 IS THE APPLICANT NOTICE.
>> BEFORE YOU READ YOUR STAFF REPORT, WE GOT THIS FROM MR. TRIB.
HE DID A LOW COUNT. WHAT DO YOU WANT TO ENTER THIS EXHIBIT S?
>> OKAY. YOU WANT TO DO THE STAFF REPORT, MATT?
>> YES. SO THE APPLICANT, MR. DAVID TRIBE, ON BEHALF OF TRIB PROPERTIES LLC HAS REQUESTED SPECIAL USE FOR THIS MINERAL EXTRACTION FACILITY LOCATED AT 86 36 TOCO ROAD,
[00:05:02]
FURTHER DESCRIBED AS TAX MAP 2 PARCEL 2.THIS APPLICATION IS A CONTINUATION OF EXISTING MINERAL EXTRACTION FACILITY.
IT WAS PREVIOUSLY APPROVED AT THE SIZE OF IT CURRENTLY IS AT 24.9 ACRES BACK IN 2010.
THIS FACILITY, IN PARTICULAR, HAS BEEN FULLY PERMITTED BY THE STATE OF MARYLAND PRIOR TO OUR CURRENT ORDINANCE THAT WAS PASSED IN 2018.
SO MR. TRIB DOES NOT HAVE TO FOLLOW THOSE REGULATIONS BECAUSE THERE'S AN EXEMPTION IN OUR LANGUAGE THAT SPECIFIES THAT ANYONE THAT WAS FULLY PERMITTED BY THE STATE DID NOT HAVE TO COMPLY.
HE'S UNDER THE OLD REGULATIONS.
THAT'S WHY MR. TRIB IS NOT GOING THROUGH THE SAME EXACT PROCESS THAT OUR OTHER APPLICANT AFTERWARDS IS GOING THROUGH.
HE'LL GO TO THE PLANNING COMMISSION IF THIS IS GRANTED AND GET A FINAL SITE PLAN INSTEAD OF HOW OUR ORDINANCE IS CURRENTLY WRITTEN, YOU GO TO THE PLANNING COMMISSION, YOU GET A CONDITIONAL PRELIMINARY APPROVAL BEFORE YOU COME TO THE BOARD, AND THEN YOU GO BACK TO PLANNING COMMISSION.
SO IN THIS CASE, IT'S A LITTLE DIFFERENT.
SO LIKE I SAID, THIS IS FULLY PERMANENT FROM THE STATE SINCE 2010.
HE'S BEEN BACK BEFORE THE BOARD IN 2014 AND 2019 FOR A CONTINUATION OF THE FACILITY, IS NOT REQUESTING ANY CHANGES TO HIS CURRENT CONDITIONS OF APPROVAL.
I'VE LISTED ALL THE PREVIOUS CONDITIONS OF APPROVAL BECAUSE EVERY TIME THAT HE'S COME BACK TO THE BOARD, THE BOARD HAS JUST SAID, WE'LL JUST FOLLOW THE PREVIOUS CONDITIONS, AND THEY'VE NEVER REALLY BEEN OUTLINED.
WHAT I'VE GONE THROUGH AND LISTED ALL THE CONDITIONS OF APPROVAL THAT HAVE BEEN ISSUED AT EACH STAGE IN TIME, ALL THE WAY BACK TO PRIOR TO MR. TRIB HAVING THE PROPERTY.
I'VE HIGHLIGHTED THE ONES THAT I THINK ARE STILL PERTINENT AND PROBABLY SHOULD BE DISCUSSED WITH SMITH TRIBUTE.
SO LIKE I SAID, HE HASN'T REQUESTED ANY CHANGES TO THESE, BUT I'M NOT SO SURE THAT HE EVEN FULLY KNOWS HOW MANY CONDITIONS HAVE BEEN OVER TIME, HAD JUST BEEN STACKED ON TOP OF EACH OTHER.
SO I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS IN PARTICULAR, THE FIRST ONE THAT I HAVE HIGHLIGHTED HERE IS AN APPROVAL IN EFFECT FOR FIVE YEARS.
THAT WAS PREVIOUSLY SUBMITTED UNDER SOME OLD REGULATIONS WHERE OUR CONDITIONS OF APPROVAL WERE TIED TO THAT MDE PERMIT.
SO PREVIOUS ZONING ADMINISTRATOR WAY WOULD LIKE TO GRANT APPROVALS FOR THE SAME LENGTH OF TIME AS THE MD PERMIT.
WE ONLY REQUEST THAT APPLICANTS COME BACK IF THERE'S AN ACTUAL CHANGE TO THE FACILITY, WHETHER THERE'S AN EXPANSION OR A MODIFICATION OF PREVIOUS CONDITIONS.
SO IT'S THE STAFF'S OPINION THAT THAT CONDITIONAL APPROVAL SHOULD GO AWAY.
THIS IS THE THIRD TIME HE'S BEEN BACK FOR THE SAME EXACT THING.
NOW, THERE'S SOME OTHER THINGS IN HERE.
A WRITTEN DUST CONTROL PLAN SUBMITTED TO DEPARTMENT PLANNING CODES WITHIN 30 DAYS OF THE RECEIPT OF THIS DECISION.
I THINK THAT'S STILL VALID AND SHOULD STILL BE ENFORCED.
THE BUSINESS HOURS SHALL BE MODIFIED TO PERMIT THE WASHING MATERIALS ON SITE ON SATURDAYS.
NO HAULING PREVIOUSLY, THERE WAS A CONDITION ON HOURS OF OPERATIONS THAT WAS FROM 7:30 A.M. TO 5:30 P.M. MONDAY THROUGH FRIDAY AND THAT WAS GRANTED IN 2008.
THEN IN 2014, IT WAS MODIFIED TO PERMIT THE WASHING MATERIALS.
SO I THINK THAT HOURS OF OPERATIONS SHOULD BE SPELLED OUT IF THIS IS TO BE APPROVED TO INCLUDE THAT AND NOT SAY, OH, WELL, THIS WAS APPROVED AT THIS RATE AND THIS IN 2018.
WE WANT TO CONTINUE TO STACK THESE IN THE APPROPRIATE MANNER OF APPROVAL.
SO WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT THE HOURS OF OPERATIONS ARE CLEAR AND NOT HAVE TO GO BACK TO TWO OTHER PREVIOUS OPINIONS AND DECISIONS TO FIGURE OUT WHAT THE HOURS OF OPERATIONS ARE SUPPOSED TO BE.
THE APPLICANT SHALL POST A 10-MILE-PER-HOUR SPEED LIMIT SIGNS ON THE ACCESS LANE, I THINK THAT'S STILL A VALID CONCERN AND CONDITION. THE NUMBER OF TRUCKS.
NOW THIS IS SOMETHING THAT I'VE BROUGHT UP PREVIOUSLY.
NUMBER OF TRUCKS THAT MAY ENTER LEAVE THE PROPERTY DAY IS LIMITED TO 50.
THERE WAS A CONDITION LATER ON THAT WAS AND THIS IS WHY THE TRUCKLOADS WERE LISTED.
SO IF MR. TRIB IS STILL OKAY WITH SUBMITTING WHAT HE HAS BEEN SUBMITTING, WHICH IS ANYTIME HE GOES OVER THE NUMBER OF LOADS PER DAY BASED ON A PROJECT THAT HE HAD PICKED UP TO SUBMIT THAT.
SO IT IS A STILL VALID CONCERN.
I WILL SAY THAT MOST APPLICATIONS THAT WE RECEIVE ON NEW OR EVEN EXISTING FACILITIES USUALLY HAVE A 50-TRUCK LIMIT.
IF YOU WOULD STILL LIKE TO ENFORCE THAT, I THINK IT'S PERFECTLY FINE. IT'S HIGHLIGHTED HERE.
SO I JUST WANT IT TO BE SPELLED OUT IF THAT'S WHAT THE BOARD IS STILL GOING TO CONTINUE TO ENFORCE.
[00:10:05]
YEAH, THAT'S ALL I'VE GOT AT THIS POINT.SO YEAH, ALL THE OTHER CONDITIONS OF APPROVAL.
SOME OF THESE ARE NO LONGER EVEN VALID.
LIKE I SAID, MOST OF THESE ARE CONTINUATIONS UPON EACH TIME HE'S GONE BEFORE THE BOARD FOR A MODIFICATION, WHICH IS IN BETWEEN THE TIMES THAT HE'S COME BEFORE THE BOARD IN 2014 AND 2019 TO CONTINUE THE SAME EXACT OPERATION.
WITH THAT, I'LL ASK YOU IF I'VE GOT ANY QUESTIONS FOR ME.
WE'RE GOING TO BE FOR MR. TRIB, AND HE CAN PRESENT HIS CASE, IF YOU'D LIKE TO DISCUSS THESE CONDITIONS WITH HIM.
I'M NOT SURE HE PROBABLY WANTS TO CHANGE ANY OF THESE, BUT THAT'S UP TO HIM TO DECIDE.
>> WELL, I'M JUST TRYING TO CLARIFY ALL THE DIFFERENT LEVELS OF WHERE IT STARTED AND HOW DO YOU SUGGEST THAT WE CONDENSE IT INTO MOVING FORWARD? THIS IS THE DEAL AND SO THAT IT'S CLEANER AND EASIER TO FOLLOW.
I MEAN, THAT'S THAT WOULD BE MY SUGGESTION INSTEAD OF HAVING AND I THINK I AGREE, IF YOU GUYS DO THAT THE FIVE-YEAR THING IS REALLY IRRELEVANT.
I MEAN, HOW DO YOU GO THROUGH IT ONE BY ONE? DO WE DO WE JUST I MEAN, LISTEN TO WHAT MR. TRIB HAS TO SAY CURRENTLY AND THEN ADVISE AFTERWARDS?
>> THAT WOULD BE MY SUGGESTION.
>> MR. TREVI NEED TO TESTIFY. YOU'LL NEED TO GO THROUGH.
>> NO, I GET THAT. I MEAN, I'M JUST TRYING TO UNDERSTAND WHAT HE'S TALKING ABOUT.
>> THEN IF WE VOTE TO APPROVE IT, THEN MIGHT HAVE PUT THESE INTO.
>> RIGHT. BUT I WAS JUST TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW IF THERE WAS ANYTHING, I WAS TRYING TO GET MATT TO WEIGH IN ON THAT BEFORE WE STARTED, BUT THAT'S FINE. PERFECT.
>> WELL, LET'S SEE. YOU SAID ABOUT EVERYTHING THAT NEED TO BE SAID, I GUESS ABOUT RESTRICTIONS AND SO FORTH.
BUT WE'D LIKE TO LET YOU KNOW THAT THE PROJECTS THAT WE HAVE ARE CONTINUING ONGOING AS PRIVATE PROJECTS, DIFFERENT CONTRACTORS, SOME STATE PROJECTS, STATE DEVELOPMENT PROJECTS.
I'M NOT A PERSON WHO DOES THE WORK ITSELF.
I'M JUST A SUPPLIER OF THE PRODUCTS.
NO INTENTIONS OF GOING TO THE NEXT STEP.
THIS IS STRICTLY FOR TRACTION PURPOSES.
WE ON THE ENVIRONMENTAL CONCERNS.
ALL THE WATER THAT IS GENERATED ON THE FARM OR RUNS OFF THE FARM GOES TO OUR POND.
SO ALL EROSION CONTROL PRACTICES ARE IN PLACE.
WE IRRIGATE OUT OF THE POND FROM JUNE UNTIL ALMOST HARVEST TIME.
SO RIGHT NOW THE POND IS STILL BELOW THE OVERFLOW PIPE, AND IT HAS BEEN FOR A NUMBER OF MONTHS.
IT PROBABLY WON'T FALL BACK UP AGAIN UNTIL PROBABLY IN DECEMBER OR JANUARY.
SO WHATEVER IS USED TO WASH THE SAND WITH GOES BACK INTO THE POND, EVERYTHING HOPEFULLY IS MET FOR ALL EROSION CONTROL PRACTICES.
THIS IS OBVIOUSLY A FAMILY OPERATION.
MY SON IS HERE WITH ME, AND MY GRANDSON IS BASICALLY JUST A FAMILY OPERATION.
WE DON'T HIRE OUTSIDE PEOPLE TO DO ANY WORK.
I AM TRYING TO BE AS A CONSCIENTIOUS TO ALL THE NEIGHBORS AS FAR AS THE DUST AND SOUND.
I KNOW THAT MR. MANN IS WHERE I'M LOCATED.
I DON'T KNOW ABOUT THE OTHER TWO OF YOU.
WE ARE OFF THE ROAD QUITE A WAYS.
IF YOU'VE BEEN BY THE FARM, YOU'VE SEEN ALL THE TALL GRASS GROWING OUT THERE.
IT ISOLATES EVERYTHING BACK THERE.
BUT WE DO TRY TO KEEP THE EROSION AND THE SOUND AND DUST DOWN.
WE PERIODICALLY, WHEN WE HAVE A NUMBER OF LOADS GOING OUT, WE DO HAVE A WATER TRUCK THAT OR A WAGON THAT WE WENT TO LANE DOWN WITH.
THE ONLY THING I WOULD BE CONCERNED ABOUT AS FAR AS MY NEIGHBORS AND DUST IS PROBABLY THE CHICKEN OPERATION THAT WE HAVE ON THE FARM THAT I CAN'T CONTROL.
THEY COME IN ALL HOURS OF THE DAY AND NIGHT.
OBVIOUSLY, THEY START CATCHING CHICKENS AT NIGHTTIME, 11:00 AND IT MAY GO THROUGH THE MORNING HOURS, BUT IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE GRAVEL OPERATION.
THE ONLY THING I WOULD LIKE TO SUGGEST BRING UP TO YOU ALL AS WELL IS THAT THE CONTINUATION OF THIS PROJECT I'LL STILL BEING INVOLVED INTO IT,
[00:15:01]
BUT WE ARE IN THE POINT IN MY LIFETIME TO SEE THE OPERATION BEING MOVED IN WITH SOME OF THE FAMILY MEMBERS.IN TIME TO COME, MY SON TROY AND HIS WIFE, VICKY, I WOULD LIKE TO HAVE THEM INCLUDED ON THE APPLICATION FOR APPROVAL TO BE ADDED TO IT BECAUSE I WANT TO RETIRE.
>> I DID PROVIDE THE LOAD COUNT.
I KNOW THAT WHEN WE FIRST STARTED THE PROJECT 15 LOADS PER DAY AND LATER ON, LATER YEARS, WE ADD ON TO 50 LOAD COUNT, BUT I ONLY HAD 44 DAYS OF THE YEAR OR OF THIS PAST YEAR THAT WAS OVER THE 15 LOAD COUNT.
LOOKING DOWN MY LIST HERE, I DON'T THINK I HAD ANYTHING OVER 50 LOADS AT ALL.
ONE THERE. I HAD ONE LOAD COUNTING OVER 50.
BUT THAT WAS BECAUSE OF A STATE PROJECT THAT WAS GOING ON.
I SAID, MOST OF MY BUSINESS IS BASICALLY JUST CONTRACTORS SUPPLYING THEM.
IF SOMEONE COMING IN TO ME LIKE BRAMBLES OR SOMEONE ON LARGE SCALE OPERATORS, THEY MIGHT NEED QUITE A FEW LOADS, AND IT MAY BE A LOT IN ONE DAY, BUT WE BUT MOST OF MY LOAD COUNT PER DAY, ONLY 44 WAS OVER 15 LOADS.
MOST OF THE DAY EVERY DAY THAT.
I THINK WAS SOMEWHERE AROUND SEVEN OR EIGHT A DAY.
WE HAVE STARTED PRODUCING SCREEN TOPSOIL, WHICH HAS BEEN A BIG SELLER FOR US HERE RECENTLY.
WE ALSO ARE EXTRACTING CLAY THAT HAS BEEN SOMETHING NEW TO US ON THE FARM.
IT'S ANOTHER PRODUCT THAT WE'RE SELLING NOW.
WE'RE NOT JUST SELLING SAND AND FILL MATERIAL, BUT WE ALSO HAVE THE CLAY AND TOPSOIL SWING TOPSOIL WE HAVE AVAILABLE TO US.
WE'RE JUST LIKE I SAID, NO BIG OPERATION, JUST A FAMILY OPERATION.
>> WE CERTAINLY TRY TO MEET ALL THE REQUIREMENTS THAT'S NEEDED, [NOISE] AND I TRY TO BE AS CONSCIENTIOUS TO MY NEIGHBORS AS I POSSIBLY CAN.
WITH THAT, I'LL TAKE ANY QUESTIONS.
>> I GOT A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS.
>> I'LL START. YOU DO HAVE A 10-MILE AN HOUR SPEED LIMIT POSTED SOMEWHERE DOWN YOUR LANE?
>> I'M FINE WITH THAT, THAT'S CORRECT.
>> NO YOU ALREADY HAVE IT POSTED.
>> I DON'T THINK WE HAVE IT POSTED, DO WE?
>> WE WILL DO THAT THOUGH. [LAUGHTER]
>> WE'LL ASK YOU TO DO THAT, PLEASE.
WHEN DID IT START BEING DUG OUT? WAS IT 2019 OR WAS IT BEFORE THAT?
>> '19 WHEN WE LEFT DID IT [OVERLAPPING]
>> WHEN IT WAS FIRST ESTABLISHED.
>> WHEN WAS IT FIRST ESTABLISHED?
>> I GUESS IT WAS OVER [OVERLAPPING] THE FORUM.
I RENEWED THAT I THINK IN '05 AND THEN RECEIVED APPROVAL IN '10.
IT'S BEEN RENEWED SEVERAL TIMES.
TIMES GOES BY SO DOWN ON QUICK.
HOW CAN YOU BELIEVE IT'S BEEN ON ALMOST 20 YEARS?
>> I DON'T HAVE ANYTHING RIGHT NOW. YOU GOT SOME QUESTIONS?
>> NO. I THINK IT'S REALLY JUST A QUESTION OF IF NOBODY SEEMS TO BE HAVING AN ISSUE WITH DUST OR YOU HAVEN'T HAD NEIGHBORS OR ANYBODY COMPLAINING.
>> YOU HAVEN'T HAD ANY MAJOR ISSUES OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT.
I HAVE ONE NEIGHBOR WHO HAD A COMMENT ABOUT THE HOUR IN THE AFTERNOON, AND I'VE ALWAYS CLOSED DOWN AT FIVE O'CLOCK.
I THINK THAT WAS ONE TIME IT WENT PAST THAT, A NEIGHBOR CALLED ME AND WE SHUT DOWN IMMEDIATELY.
IT WAS ONLY BECAUSE WE WERE TRYING TO FINISH UP A JOB.
>> OF COURSE. YOU PRETTY MUCH ARE ADHERING TO THAT 7:30-5:00 RANGE.
>> I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH THAT.
>> THAT'S NOT A PROBLEM. THEN THE SATURDAY THING, YOU'RE NOT HAULING ANYTHING ON SATURDAYS BUT YOU'RE DOING SOME WASHING OR SOMETHING?
>> NO, KAREN COVERED. [LAUGHTER]
>> ACTUALLY, I BELIEVE IT'S WRITTEN IN HERE, HOURS OPERATION ARE ACTUALLY 7:30-5:30, MONDAY THROUGH FRIDAY.
>> WE'RE TRYING TO SHUT DOWN BY 5:00 PM.
>> I THINK SATURDAY SOME TIME AGO WAS ALLOWED INTO IT.
I THINK ONCE WE GO THROUGH THINGS, IF WE'RE GOING TO APPROVE THINGS, I THINK WE NEED TO SET HOURS ALSO FOR SATURDAY.
>> SO THAT IT'S NOT IT'S LEFT UP IN THE AIR.
>> DO YOU HAVE ANY SUGGESTIONS ABOUT HOW YOU FEEL
[00:20:01]
ABOUT WHAT SATURDAY OPERATIONS TYPICALLY LOOK LIKE?>> BECAUSE I WAS THINKING 7:30 TO NOON OR SOMETHING, SO IT'S NOT AN ALL-DAY THING ON A WEEKEND.
>> USUALLY ON SATURDAYS IT'S USUALLY SOME WASHING SOME SAND IN THE MORNINGS OR I'M PREPARING SOME MATERIAL READY FOR MONDAY.
BUT I'M NOT DOING ANY TRUCKING LIKE THAT.
>> LAST TIME YOU WERE HERE, YOU SAID YOU WEREN'T PLANNING ON TO EXPAND, YOU WERE JUST GOING TO [OVERLAPPING]
>> WE STILL HAVE SEVERAL RECORDS.
BUT LIKE I SAID, I'M GOING TO RETIRE AND IF THEY WANT TO CONTINUE WITH IT, THAT'S UP TO THEM.
>> THAT'S WHAT YOU SAID LAST TIME.
>> BUT NO, I HAVE NO INTENTIONS OF GOING BEYOND THE 2499, OR WHATEVER IT IS.
>> WHEN WE GET INTO DELIBERATIONS AND WE DO CONDITIONS TO CLEAN EVERYTHING UP, SHOULD WE JUST MAKE ALL NEW CONDITIONS IN A NEW ORDER JUST TO CLEAN IT UP?
>> WE DEPENDS AT WORK KEEPING EXTRA WASTE BUT I THINK SHOULD BE CLEAR WHICH CONDITIONS APPLY AND ARE THERE THE DECISION WHICH ARE THEN IN WITH PRIOR DECISIONS.
IT CLEAR AS CRYSTAL ITSELF SOMETHING YOU DON'T WANT TO HAVE TO BE BACK TO THE PRIOR OPINIONS TO SEE WHAT MAKES MORE [INAUDIBLE]
>> YOU'LL PULL THEM ALL TOGETHER IN THE NEW DECISION SO IT'S ALL CLEARLY LISTED FROM WHERE THESE CAME?
>> BEFORE WE GO INTO DELIBERATIONS, IS THERE ANYBODY HERE IN OPPOSITION OF TRIVET PROPERTIES?
>> IS THERE ANYBODY THAT WANTS TO SPEAK ON BEHALF OF TRIVET PROPERTIES IN ANY WAY? YOUR SON, YOU'RE GOOD.
>> YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO TAKE THE OATH.
>> DO YOU HEREBY SOLEMNLY DECLARE AND AFFIRM UNDER THE PENALTIES OF PERJURY THAT THE STATEMENT YOU MAKE AND THE TESTIMONY YOU GIVE IS THE TRUTH, THE WHOLE TRUTH, AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH?
>> I'VE BEEN A NEIGHBOR, MR. TRIVET, AND PRIOR TO THAT, MR. SHAW, AND MY PROPERTY IS PROBABLY WITHIN A 1,000 FOOT DISTANCE FROM THE CORNER OF THIS PROPERTY.
I CAN SAY VERY CONFIDENT THAT MR. TRIVET IS RUNNING A FIRST-CLASS OPERATION.
THE ONLY NOISE THAT I CAN EVER HEAR IS REALLY MAYBE A TRUCK OR TWO EVERY ONCE IN A WHILE, BUT IT'S JUST LIKE HIGHWAY TRAFFIC.
WE HAVE A LARGE BUFFER OF TREES.
HE RUNS HIS OPERATION VERY PROFESSIONALLY, LIKE YOU SAID, FROM 7:30-5:30 AND CUTS IT OFF.
I HAVEN'T HEARD OF OR SEEN ANY VIOLATIONS OF THE CONDITIONS TO THE PLACE ON THOSE PERIOD IN HIS OPERATION SINCE I'VE BEEN LIVING THERE.
I CAN ONLY SIT HERE AND SAY THAT I WISH TO RECOMMEND THAT YOU AFFIRM THIS DECISION AND ALLOW HIM TO CONTINUE HIS OPERATION.
>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH. WE APPRECIATE THAT.
>> WE APPRECIATE THAT. [OVERLAPPING]
>> AT THIS POINT, WE'RE GOING TO GO INTO DELIBERATIONS AND WE'LL ASK MR. TRIVET IF WE NEED ANY CLARIFICATIONS ON ANYTHING.
LET'S GO THROUGH THESE CONDITIONS.
THE BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS SHALL NOT GRANT A SPECIAL USE EXCEPTION UNLESS AND UNTIL A WRITTEN APPLICATION HAS BEEN SUBMITTED.
IT HAS BEEN SUBMITTED AND IT WAS EXHIBIT?
>> I BELIEVE THE APPLICATION WAS.
>> A DUALLY ADVERTISED PUBLIC HEARING.
>> AS EXHIBIT 11, THE SIGN POSTING WOULD BE THE EVIDENCE FOR THAT.
>> WELL, I GUESS THE DUALLY ADVERTISED, THAT WOULD BE THE TIMES RECORD.
[00:25:02]
WE WILL NOT BE DETRIMENTAL TO OR ENDANGER THE PUBLIC HEALTH SAFETY AND OR GENERAL WELFARE.>> OPERATION HAS BEEN IN EXISTENCE FOR QUITE SOME TIME NOW.
>> TO TESTIFY IN OPPOSITION OF ANYTHING.
>> THERE'S BEEN NO COMPLAINTS OR ANY VIOLATIONS OR ANYTHING INDICATING THAT THERE WOULD BE ANY PROBLEMS. I THINK THAT'S BEEN MET.
OF COURSE, THE TESTIMONY FROM HIS NEIGHBOR CERTAINLY AFFIRMS THAT.
>> B, WILL NOT BE INJURIOUS TO THE PEACEFUL USE AND ENJOYMENT OF OTHER PROPERTY IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD AND WILL NOT SUBSTANTIALLY DIMINISH OR IMPAIR PROPERTY VALUES.
YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE WATCH ON THAT BUT [OVERLAPPING]
IT'S BEEN IN EXISTENCE ALL THESE YEARS. IT'S CONTINUING.
IT'S NOT LIKE THAT WASN'T ALREADY DECIDED ON AND GOOD-TO-GO.
I DON'T SEE ANYTHING, REASON WHY THAT WOULD BE A PROBLEM.
>> WILL NOT IMPEDE THE NORMAL AND ORDERLY DEVELOPMENT AND IMPROVEMENT OF THE SURROUNDING PROPERTY FOR USES PERMITTED IN THE ZONING DISTRICT.
>> IT'S AN AGRICULTURE? IT'S ZONED IN AGRICULTURE?
>> IT'S ZONED ON [OVERLAPPING]
>> I TRAVEL THE ROAD EVERY DAY, TWICE A DAY, I'VE NEVER SEEN A TRUCK COME IN OR OUT OF THERE.
IF I HAVEN'T MET YET, AS FAR AS TRAFFIC.
>> IT'S NOT CAUSING ANY ISSUE WITH SURROUNDING PROPERTIES, BECAUSE THERE'S NOBODY HERE TO TESTIFY TO THAT EFFECT?
>> D, WILL NOT OVERBURDEN EXISTING PUBLIC FACILITIES, INCLUDING SCHOOLS, POLICE, FIRE PROTECTION, WATER AND SEWAGE, PUBLIC ROADS, STORING DRAINAGE, OR OTHER PUBLIC IMPROVEMENTS.
>> THERE'S SCHOOL BUSES THAT RUN BUT THEY'RE TWICE A DAY.
THERE HAVE NOT BEEN AN ISSUE WITH SCHOOL BUSES.
IF FOR SOME REASON THEY DID HAVE A FIRE, THEY HAVE A LARGE POND RIGHT THERE [OVERLAPPING].
NO PROBLEM. HAVEN'T FORBID, A CHICKEN HOUSE FIRE OR ANYTHING ELSE.
>> THE PUBLIC ROADS ISSUE ISN'T AN ISSUE BECAUSE THERE'S VERY FEW TRAFFIC.
>> OR IT SHOULD HAVE DONE [OVERLAPPING] YEARS AGO.
>> THAT WAS AVAILABLE TO THE FIRE COMPANY SO THEY'RE WELCOME TO USE UPON.
>> I DON'T SEE WHERE IT'S OVERBURDENING ANY OTHER.
>> E, CONFORMS TO OTHER RESPECTS TO THIS CHAPTER AND ESPECIALLY TO THE APPLICABLE REGULATIONS OF THE ZONING DISTRICTS IN WHICH IT IS TO BE LOCATED.
IT'S BEEN THERE APPROVED IN THE '90S.
>> THEY'RE NOT ASKING FOR ANYTHING EXTRA, THEY'RE JUST ASKING TO CONTINUE THEIR OPERATION AS THEY HAVE FOR THE LAST YEARS.
IT'S DEFINITELY NOT IN THE CRITICAL AREA, SO THAT DOESN'T APPLY.
>> WHAT ABOUT ADDING THE SONS TO IT? IS THAT GOING TO BE A CONDITION?
>> WE NEED TO ASK PATRICK MORE ABOUT THAT.
>> THAT'S ABOUT THE LAND USE AND WHO OWNS IT, CORRECT? THAT'S NOT ON THE TABLE FOR NOW.
THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE HAVE TO ADD HIM LATER, I WOULD THINK.
>> THE BUSINESS IN WHICH THAT EXTRACTION IS IS TRIVET.
>> NOW AS TRIVET PROPERTIES ALREADY INCLUDE TROY AND VICKY ON THAT?
>> THAT'S WHAT WE WANT TO DO, HAVE THEM PUT ON.
>> THAT'S SOMETHING SEPARATE THAT THEY CAN DO AT SOME POINT. [OVERLAPPING]
>> I THINK THAT IN LLC, SO IF THEY DOWN THE ROAD SIDE THEY RESTRUCTURE.
>> THEIR LLC. THEY COULD INCLUDE THEM.
>> THEY WOULD SUBMIT THAT LLC APPLICATION [OVERLAPPING]
>> EXACTLY. THEY WOULD DO IT ON THEIR BEHALF. THERE'S NO PROBLEM.
>> IT HASN'T OCCURRED YET, SO [OVERLAPPING]
>> WE DON'T EVEN NEED TO WORRY ABOUT THAT.
>> THIS IS NOT GOING TO BE CONTINUE.
IT'S GOING TO JUST BE MY WIFE AND I AND TROY AND VICKY.
>> BUT WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO GET TO, MR. DAVE IS, WHERE DOES THAT GET ADDRESSED? WE'RE THINKING THAT IT DOES NOT ACTUALLY GET ADDRESSED TO US, IT GETS ADDRESSED THROUGH ATTORNEYS AND THAT LLC WILL BE DONE AWAY WITH AND A NEW ONE WILL BE CREATED.
[00:30:01]
>> BUT THAT HAS NO BEARING ON TONIGHT'S.
>> IT HAS NO BEARING ON WHAT WE'RE DOING.
THAT WILL BE TAKEN CARE OF AT A LATER DATE.
>> BUT, PATRICK, CAN IT BE, SAY, WE SAY THIS CAN ONLY BE RUN BY A TRIBUTE OR NO, THAT STILL IT HAS TO BE IN THE FAMILY TO RUN?
>> AS LONG AS THAT LLC IS IN EXISTENCE, IT JUST STAYS THAT WAY.
>> I'LL HAVE TO LOOK INTO THAT, BUT I DON'T THINK IT'S SOMETHING WE HAVE TO ADDRESS.
>> YOU'RE AWARE THAT ANY CHANGES THAT YOU MAKE, INCLUDING YOUR OPERATION NAME AND SUCH, THOSE THINGS ARE THINGS THAT YOU WOULD HAVE TO ADDRESS WITH THE COUNTY AT A FUTURE DATE? IF AND WHEN YOU DO DECIDE TO MAKE THOSE CHANGES, AT THAT POINT, YOU'D ADDRESS IT IF IT DOES FACTOR INTO YOUR CURRENT SITUATION AND WHATNOT.
>> FACTORS TO GET THROUGH THERE.
>> APPROVAL WHERE HE HAS TO COME BACK EVERY FIVE YEARS.
THAT'S A CONDITION. DO YOU WANT TO GET RID OF THAT?
>> I SAY IT'S GONE. NOBODY ELSE HAS THAT.
WHEN CHANGES COME UP, THAT'S WHEN YOU HAVE TO COME IN.
>> AS LONG AS OPERATIONS CONTINUE AS THEY ARE.
THAT FIVE-YEAR DATE COULD JUST BE ABOLISHED, GOING AWAY.
IF CHANGES ARE MADE, AS FAR AS THE MINING OPERATION ITSELF, WHETHER THEY WANT TO EXPAND, THAT'S WHEN THEY WOULD HAVE TO COME BACK.
>> WELL, THAT'S BASICALLY WHAT IT SAYS ALREADY.
THE FIVE-YEAR THING JUST GOES AWAY AND [OVERLAPPING]
>> FIVE YEARS THING WAS PUT INTO EFFECT TO-
>> WHEN NDE WAS SETTING THINGS.
NOW, AS LONG AS I'VE BEEN HERE, I BELIEVE THAT TRIVETS ARE THE ONLY ONES.
>> THAT HAD THAT FIVE-YEAR THING.
>> THAT HAD THAT FIVE-YEAR CONDITION PUT INTO THEM.
>> IT'S TIME AND MONEY TO COME IN AND DO ALL THIS STUFF.
IF IT'S THE SAME AND THEY'RE NOT CHANGING ANYTHING, IT SEEMS FUTILE.
>> FOR THE FIRST OF THIS TIME.
>> IT SEEMS FUTILE AND I DON'T SEE THE NEED TO PENALIZE HIM [LAUGHTER] TO HAVE TO COME INTO US IF HE'S NOT MAKING ANY CHANGES.
>> I THINK THAT, WE WOULD REMOVE.
>> WHOEVER IS GOING TO MAKE THE [INAUDIBLE]
>> I'M JUST GOING OVER SOME OF THE STUFF MATT HIGHLIGHTED ABOUT DUST CONTROL.
THE APPLICANT SHALL SUBMIT A WRITTEN DUST CONTROL PLAN TO THE COUNTY WITHIN 30 DAYS.
HE HAS A DUST CONTROL. A DUST CONTROL PLAN?
>> HE'S REQUIRED TO COMPLY WITH THAT AS PART OF HIS NDE PERMIT.
NO, I THINK IT'S REFERENCED IN HIS BUSINESS PLAN, IF I RECALL.
>> YOUR CHICKEN TRUCKS COME OUT OF THAT.
HOW DOES THAT WORK? DOES HE HAVE TO HAVE A DUST CONTROL PLAN OR NOT?
>> BEFORE OUR NEW ORDINANCE, THAT WAS ONE OF THE REQUIREMENTS OF THE CONDITIONS.
NOW, SINCE THOSE MODIFICATIONS HAVE BEEN MADE TO THE LANGUAGE, IT'S STILL REQUIRED TO ADDRESS IT.
IT'S JUST THE LANGUAGE IS DIFFERENT.
BUT YES, THE CONTROLLING DUST IS ALWAYS BEEN A CONDITION OF APPROVAL FOR THIS TYPE OF USE.
>> [INAUDIBLE] LANE DOWN OURSELVES JUST TO CREATE A [INAUDIBLE] TO THE NEIGHBOR.
BUT THERE WAS NEVER A REQUIREMENT.
>> I GET YOU CAN'T GO OUT THERE AT TWO O'CLOCK IN THE MORNING WHEN YOU GET FEED, PUTTING YOUR CHICKEN OUT. I GET THAT.
>> THAT ONE WOULD STAY WHERE IT IS.
>> JUST MAKE SURE YOU PUT THAT.
>> DO YOU WANT TO CLARIFY THE HOURS? WOULD YOU HAVE, MIKE? WHAT DO YOU SAY?
>> WELL, THE DAILY OPERATION, MONDAY THROUGH FRIDAY, 7:30 AM TO 5:30 PM.
THE THING THAT WE NEEDED TO REALLY GET A CLARIFICATION ON WAS THE SATURDAY WASHING.
I BELIEVE MR. TRIVET TESTIFIED THAT 7:30 TO NOON.
>> 7:30 TO NOON WOULD BE FINE.
>> WOULD BE SUFFICIENT ENOUGH TO ALLOW HIM TO PREPARE FOR MONDAY MORNING TRUCK LOADS.
>> IN THE OPERATION OF HOURS, THERE IS A PART OF IT HIGHLIGHTED, SAYS EXCLUDING FEDERAL HOLIDAYS, IF YOU WANT TO ADD THAT INTO YOUR MOTION.
>> WE ASKED HIM ABOUT THE 10 MILE HOUR SPEED LIMIT SIGN.
[00:35:02]
>> I PUT THAT IN HERE TO MAKE SURE.
>> THEN THE LAST, LET'S TALK ABOUT THE LOAD COUNT.
HE'S HARDLY EVER GOING TO LIKE-.
>> LEAVE IT AT 50, AND THERE'S NO REASON THAT HE HAS TO SUBMIT PAPERWORK TO SAY HOW MANY LOADS.
I DON'T KNOW THAT ANYBODY ELSE IS HAVING TO DO THAT, ARE THEY?
>> YOU SAID THE STANDARD IS 50?
>> YEAH. MOST PEOPLE [OVERLAPPING].
>> ARE AT THE 50. SO IF WE LEAVE THE LOAD COUNT AT 50, THEN THAT MAKES SENSE TO ME.
BECAUSE YOU'RE NOT EVEN GETTING CLOSE TO THAT EXCEPT OCCASIONALLY.
>> YOU HAD 44 DAYS, THAT WAS OVER 15.
>>RIGHT. SO IT'S MUCH LESS THAN YEAH.
>> ORIGINALLY, THE VERY FIRST TRUCK LIMIT THAT WAS PUT ON WAS ONLY 15 A DAY.
YEAH. THAT WAS BACK IN 2008, AND THEN REQUESTED IT TO GO TO 50 BECAUSE OF SOME PROJECTS THAT THEY WERE WORKING ON THE STATE HIGHWAY.
THAT WAS IN 2010, SO IT'S BEEN THAT SINCE 2010.
>> I THINK WE JUST LEAVE IT ALONE AT THAT 50.
>> I THINK WE COVERED EVERYTHING.
>> ONE THING THAT I'LL CLARIFY.
I DIDN'T HIGHLIGHT HERE, BUT IT SHOULD BE INCLUDED.
IS THAT ALL THE TRUCKS ENTERING AND LEAVING THE PROPERTY WITH REGARD TO THE MINING OPERATION MUST BE ON ALONG ROUTE 328.
>> NO, I CAN TESTIFY TO THAT FACT THAT ACTUALLY THERE IS SIGNAGE THERE THAT TELLS EVERYONE TO GO IN AND OUT THAT WAY.
IF YOU WENT DOWN TUCKAHOE ROAD, THERE'S SIGNS THAT SAYS, PLEASE USE THE 328 ENTRANCE.
>> THAT SHOULD STILL BE IN THERE.
THAT'S THE EXITING AND ENTERING THE PROPERTY?
>> THAT'S FOR THE MINING OPERATION, YES.
>> YOU GOT DOWN WHAT YOU [OVERLAPPING] WHEN WE COVERED EVERYTHING.
>> I GUESS I'M GOING TO MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE MR. TRIVET'S APPLICATION.
FOLLOWING THE APPLICANT MUST OBTAIN A FINAL SITE PLAN APPROVAL FROM CAROLINE COUNTY PLANNING COMMISSION.
A BUILDING PERMIT AND OR ZONING CERTIFICATE WILL BE REQUIRED PRIOR TO ANY PROPOSED DEVELOPMENT AND MUST BE ACCOMPANIED BY ALL NECESSARY DOCUMENTATION AND SITE PLAN REQUIREMENTS, THE APPLICANT SHALL SUBMIT A COPY OF THE NDE SURFACE MINING PERMIT PRIOR TO THE ISSUANCE OF BUILDING PERMIT AND OR ZONING CERTIFICATE.
ANY CONDITIONS IMPOSED BY THE BOARD WILL BE ENFORCED PRIOR TO THE ISSUANCE OF BUILDING PERMIT AND OR ZONING CERTIFICATE ASSOCIATED WITH THE APPLICATION.
IN ADDITION TO THAT, FROM THE NOTES OF THE PRIOR APPROVALS.
WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT YOU POST THE 10 MILE AN HOUR SIGN ON THE DRIVEWAY AND THAT WE WANT TO PUT THE HOURS OF OPERATION ON MONDAY THROUGH FRIDAY, 07:30-5:30, EXCLUDING FEDERAL HOLIDAYS, SATURDAY 7:30 TO NOON SPECIFICALLY FOR WORK WASH, NOT FOR TRUCK TRAFFIC.
THEN WE'RE GOING TO REMOVE THE FIVE YEAR APPROVAL, AND WE'RE GOING TO MAKE SURE THAT YOU ADHERE TO AND HAVE THE TRUCKS ADHERE TO THE ROUTE 328 EXIT AND ENTERING OF THE PROPERTY.
>> AND WE DELETE IT. WE DELETED THAT.
>> SO THE LOAD COUNT CAN BE WIPED OFF OF HERE AS WELL.
>> ONE THING CAN I CLARIFY ON THAT 50, MR. TRIVET DID RECEIVE BASICALLY A SPECIAL CONDITION TO EXCEED THAT LIMIT IF HE WERE TO VERIFY FROM A GENERAL CONTRACTOR ON ANY PROPOSED PROJECT THAT WOULD EXCEED 50 LOADS PER DAY.
I THINK WE SHOULD STILL CONTINUE THAT BUT TO HAVE THAT VERIFICATION.
SO THAT'S THAT'S LISTED NUMBER 3 UNDER THE CONDITIONS FROM NOVEMBER OF 2014?
>> ONE FINAL THING WE'RE GOING TO ADD THEN IS THAT IF THERE'S ANYTHING SPECIFIC OVER 50 TRUCK LOADS PER DAY, THAT YOU'LL NEED SOME PRIOR AUTHORIZATION, IS THAT RIGHT?
>> YES. THE CONDITION THAT WAS LISTED THAT THE APPLICANT SHALL SUBMIT TO THE CAROLINE COUNTY DEPARTMENT OF PLANNING OF CODES? A LETTER FROM THE GENERAL CONTRACTOR ON ANY PROPOSED LARGE PROJECT THAT WOULD VERIFY THE NEED TO BE OVER THAT THAT 50 LOAD COUNT.
BASICALLY, WHAT WOULD HAPPEN UPON RECEIPT OF THE LETTER, WE WOULD ISSUE A LETTER FROM OUR OWN DEPARTMENT ISSUING THAT INCREASE APPROVAL.
>> IN THE APPLICATION, WELL, LET'S SEE, IT'S ON EXHIBIT 2, PAGE 3.
THE APPLICANT SHALL SUBMIT TO THE CAROLINE COUNTY DPC A LETTER FROM THE GENERAL CONTRACTOR ON ANY PROPOSED LARGE PROJECT VERIFYING THE NEED FOR
[00:40:02]
ADDITIONAL TRUCK LOADS OF MATERIAL NOT TO EXCEED 50 TRUCK LOADS PER DAY.UPON RECEIPT OF SUCH A LETTER, THE DEPARTMENT SHALL ISSUE THE APPLICANT A LETTER PERMITTING THE INCREASE.
THE INCREASE SHALL BE EFFECTIVE FOR AS LONG AS THE PROJECT CONTINUES.
IN THE EVENT, ANOTHER LARGE PROJECT IS UNDERTAKEN BY THE APPLICANT.
THE APPLICANT MAY REQUEST AN ADDITIONAL INCREASE FOR THE DURATION OF ANY OTHER ADDITIONAL PROJECT.
SO THOSE ARE ALL THE CRITERIA THAT WE'RE ADDING.
>> SO YOU'RE APPROVED? THANK YOU.
>> AS WE'RE DONE THE TRIVET, WE'LL TAKE LIKE A FIVE MINUTE RECESS.
EVERYBODY CAN STRETCH YOUR LEGS, USE THE BATHROOM WHATEVER, WE'LL READJOURN AT 6:46.
>> THIS IS WHY I WANTED TO CLARIFY ALL THOSE.
>> YES. THAT WAS GOOD. THAT HELPS.
>> IT DOESN'T YOU CAN'T JUST KEEP SAYING EVERY TIME.
COMPLY WITH ALL PREVIOUS CONDITIONS.
>> RIGHT BEFORE WE GET DONE SO MUCH.
>> TOOK ME THREE HOURS TO PUT ALL SHIT TOGETHER.
>> NOW, IT'LL BE CLEAR ON WHAT HIS CONDITIONS ARE.
>> I DON'T KNOW. MAYBE THE VOLUMES TURNED DOWN ON IT.
>> ARE WE DOING THIS BEFORE WE DO THAT OR ARE WE DOING THAT FIRST, THEN THIS?
>> YOU'RE WELCOME. TAKE CARE, MR. TRIVET.
[00:45:26]
[3) Caroline Materials, LLC- Special Use Exception No. 24-0035]
WE'RE GOING TO START THE SECOND PART OF THIS.
APPLICATION NUMBER 24-0035, A REQUEST BY CAROLINE MATERIALS, LLC FOR A SPECIAL USE EXCEPTION FOR THE PURPOSES EXPANSION OF THE EXISTING SAND AND GRAVEL MINE.
SAID PROPERTY IS LOCATED AT 8650 HARMONY ROAD, DENTON, MARYLAND, IS FURTHER DESCRIBED AS TEX MATT 37 GRID 4 PARTIAL 31 AND IS OWNED BY CAROLINE MATERIALS LLC.
MATT, YOU WANT TO READ INTO EXHIBIT?
>> YES. SO EXHIBIT 1 IS A NOTICE PUBLIC HEARINGS PUBLISHED IN THE TIMES RECORD ON OCTOBER 2 AND OCTOBER 9.
EXHIBIT 2 IS THE STAFF REPORT.
EXHIBIT 3 IS THE APPLICATION, EXHIBIT 4, IT'S THE SITE PLAN.
EXHIBIT 5 IS THE MD PERMIT RENEWAL.
EXHIBIT 6 IS THE SHA ENTRANCE LETTER.
EXHIBIT 7 IS THE PLANNING COMMISSION RECOMMENDATION.
EXHIBIT 8, IS THE STATE DEPARTMENT ASSESSMENT TAXATION DATASET AND MATT.
EXHIBIT 9 IS THE AERIAL OVERLAY WITH THE SURROUNDING AREAS.
EXHIBIT 10 IS THE ADJOINING PROPERTY OWNER AFFIDAVIT.
EXHIBIT 11 IS THE SIGN POSTING AFFIDAVIT AND PHOTOS.
EXHIBIT 12 IS THE APPLICANT NOTICE.
I JUST GOT A REQUEST FROM THE APPLICANT'S REPRESENTATIVE SEAN CALLAHAN, IF WE COULD INCLUDE THE PLANNING COMMISSION STAFF REPORT, AS WELL AS THE PICTURES THAT WERE PROVIDED TO THE PLANNING COMMISSION AS PART OF THAT SEPTEMBER MEETING DATE.
AND IF YOU GUYS WANT TO INCLUDE THAT AS PART OF THE PACKAGE, WE CAN INCLUDE IT.
TRY TO PULL IT UP. I CAN SEND YOU WHAT THOSE ARE.
>> WHAT WAS IT NOW, THE PICTURES AND?
>> SOME PICTURES AND THE STAFF REPORT THAT WAS PROVIDED TO BODY COMMISSION.
>> [OVERLAPPING] CERTAINLY BEHOOVE US TO HEAR IT. DO YOU AGREE?
>> I AGREE. I THINK WE SHOULD DO.
WHAT EXHIBIT NUMBER ARE YOU GOING TO PUT IT UNDER?
>> YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THE PLANNING COMMISSION COMMITTEE, YEAH.
I CAN PROBABLY MAIL IT TO YOU GUYS.
>> IS THERE ANY WAY WE COULD JUST PUT IT ON HERE SO WE CAN SEE IT?
>> WHILE YOU'RE DOING IT. [OVERLAPPING].
>> OR WE CAN READ IT OUT LOUD. ANYTHING THAT.
>> WHILE SHE'S DOING THAT, YOU WANT ME THE MEET THE APPLICANT COME UP?
>> YEAH, YOU CAN HAVE THE APPLICANT COME UP.
>> [OVERLAPPING] PART OF IT PART OF WHAT THEY SAID IS RIGHT IN HERE.
>> IT'S PART OF EXHIBIT 2, PAGE 102, AT THE LAST PARAGRAPH, COVERS PLANNING COMMISSION HELD A PUBLIC MEETING.
>> YOU SAID EXHIBIT 2? YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THE BOTTOM OF EXHIBIT 2, MATT? YES, IT'S IN HERE.
>> BUT THERE'S NO PHOTOS INCLUDED.
>> [OVERLAPPING] YES IT'S JUST THE FACT THAT THEY DID HOLD A MEETING AND WHAT THEIR RECOMMENDATIONS WERE.
[00:50:04]
>> THE RECOMMENDATION IS IMPROVING YOUR CONTENT.
>> NOW DID YOU WANT TO SEE THE STAFF REPORT FROM REQUESTING IT.
I WILL PROJECT IT TO THE SCREEN.
>> I DON'T THINK MATT'S FINISHED READING WHAT HE NEEDS TO, IS HE?
>> YEAH, I NEED TO GO OVER THE STAFFORD BOOK.
LET'S HAVE THE APPLICANT AND THEN BY HELPING HIM REPRESENT, COME UP AND TAKE THE OATH.
IN FACT, ANYBODY IS GOING TO TALK, WHETHER YOU'RE FOR OR AGAINST IT, TO STAND UP, TAKE THE OATH.
WE'LL START WITH RICK AND MAKE SURE YOU GIVE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS.
THE OATH, DO YOU HEREBY SOLEMNLY DECLARE AND AFFIRM UNDER THE PENALTIES OF PERJURY THAT'S A STATEMENT YOU MAKE AND THE TESTIMONY YOU GIVE IS A TRUTH, THE WHOLE TRUTH, AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH? YOU CAN START RICK AND GO AROUND.
RICK AND START WITH HIS NAME AND ADDRESS, AND EVERYBODY JUST GO RIGHT AROUND THE ROOM, SAY YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS.
>> MY NAME IS RICK BRADY I'M IN 25155 [INAUDIBLE].
>> [INAUDIBLE] 118 [NOISE] MARKET STREET FROM MARYLAND.
>> SEAN CALLAHAN, 117 BAY STREET, CASTER MARYLAND.
>> WILLIAM TURNER, 1102 CHESAPEAKE STEVENSVILLE, MARYLAND.
>> MATTHEW SABWELL 25294 PEALIQUOR ROAD MARYLAND.
>> [INAUDIBLE] 25156 PEALIQUOR ROAD.
J25 260 ROAD. HE SAID BOTH IN.
AND THE APPLICANTS, YOU CAN GO AHEAD AND START YOUR CASE? WELL, WE STILL WANT TO HEAR HIM DO THE STAFF REPORT RIGHT? BEFORE WE START.
>> I THINK HE WANT TO READ IT.
>> THE INITIAL STUFF BEFORE [INAUDIBLE] [OVERLAPPING].
>> WHAT WE CAN DO IS WE'LL ADD THE PLANNING COMMISSION STAFF REPORT AS EXHIBIT 13, AND WE'LL ADD THE PICTURES THAT WERE PROVIDED IN THE PLANNING COMMISSION PACKAGE AS EXHIBIT 14.
I'LL TRY TO SEND THAT TO THE PRINTER.
I DON'T HAVE THAT PRINTER, BUT I CAN RUN UPSTAIRS AND GET IT, BUT IN THE MEANTIME, LET ME GO OVER THE STAFF REPORT.
THE APPLICANT, CAROLINE MATERIALS, LLC HAS REQUESTED A SPECIAL USE EXCEPTION FOR MINERAL EXTRACTION FACILITY, LOCATED AT 8650 HARMONY ROAD, ALSO KNOWN AS MARYLAND ROUTE 16, DESCRIBED AS TAX M37 GREAT 4 PARCEL 31.
THIS APPLICATION INVOLVES AN EXPANSION OF EXISTING FACILITY KNOWN AS THE BREEDING TRACT.
ITS APPLICATIONS FOR PROPOSED EXPANSION OF 14.99 ACRES BRING THE TOTAL OPERATION OF 93.26 ACRES.
THIS CURRENT OPERATION HAS BEEN IN EXISTENCE SINCE THE 1960S, PRIOR TO MDE REQUIRING SURFACE MINING PERMITS, WHICH WAS IN 1977.
PREVIOUSLY, THE BOARD HAD APPROVED THE OPERATION AND WE RECEIVED A COPY OF MD MINING PERMIT IN 1978.
THAT'S THE FIRST KNOWN MDE SURFACE MINING PERMIT WE HAVE FOR THIS FACILITY, BUT WE DID KNOW IT EXISTED PRIOR TOO.
THE MOST RECENT BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS SPECIAL USE APPROVAL WAS IN FEBRUARY OF 2005.
THE CONDITIONS OF APPROVAL ARE LISTED ON SHEET G102 OF THE PLANS PREPARED BY LAND ENGINEERING.
IT HAS ALL THOSE CONDITIONS LISTED.
THE APPLICANT HAS REQUESTED MODIFICATIONS TO TWO OF THOSE CONDITIONS.
CONDITION NUMBER 10 AND CONDITION NUMBER 17.
CONDITION NUMBER 10 DOES NOT ALLOW ANY SCREENING OR SEPARATION OF MATERIALS.
MR. BREINING WOULD LIKE TO DO THAT.
SO THAT'S ONE OF THE CONDITIONS.
CONDITION 17, DOES NOT ALLOW FOR ANY DISCHARGE OF WATER FROM THE FACILITY.
AS FAR AS WE KNOW, AND I DON'T KNOW HOW LONG AND RICK WILL HAVE TO CLARIFY THIS, BUT NOT SURE WHY THAT CONDITION WAS IN PREVIOUS CONDITIONS OF APPROVAL BECAUSE THEY'VE HAD A DISCHARGE PERMIT FROM THE MDE FOR YEARS.
THEY'RE REQUIRED TO DO WATER MONITOR TESTING AND HE HAS A THIRD PARTY THAT THAT SUBMITS THOSE REPORTS.
THEY WOULD LIKE TO MODIFY THAT CONDITION.
NOW, THESE PROPOSED PLANS, UNLIKE THE SIMILAR APPLICATION THAT WE HAD PREVIOUSLY, YES, THIS HAS BEEN EXISTENCE PRIOR TO MDE SERVICE MINE PERMITS.
BUT THE AREA IN WHICH THE BREEDINGS WOULD LIKE TO DIG IS NOT FULLY PERMITTED BY MDE,
[00:55:02]
SO THEY HAVE TO COMPLY WITH THE NEW REGULATIONS, THE CURRENT REGULATIONS FOR THAT EXPANSION AREA.ONE OF THE THINGS THAT THEY'VE REQUESTED IS A MODIFICATION TO THE 200 FOOT SETBACK.
OBVIOUSLY, THE PREVIOUS APPROVED MDE SERVICE MINING PERMIT EXISTED PRIOR TO THAT SETBACK REQUIREMENT.
SO THAT EXISTING OPERATION AS IT CURRENTLY STANDS, DOES NOT HAVE TO COMPLY.
THESE SETBACKS ARE DIFFERENT FROM A STANDARD VARIANCE.
THIS IS ADDRESSED BY THIS BOARD AS PART OF THE SPECIAL USE APPROVAL.
ONE OF THE THINGS THAT IS REQUIRED FOR THE BOARD TO MAKE A DECISION ON THAT IS TO HAVE A PLANNING COMMISSION TO REVIEW AND APPROVE THAT FACILITY REGARDING THE SETBACK MODIFICATION.
PLANNING COMMISSION HAS REVIEWED IT.
LIKE I MENTIONED PREVIOUSLY, SEPTEMBER 11, THEY HELD A PUBLIC MEETING FOR THE PARY SITE PLAN AND GAVE A POSITIVE RECOMMENDATION FOR THAT REDUCTION OF 200 FOOT SETBACK.
ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE WOULD LIKE THE BOARD TO DO AS PART OF THIS REVIEW IS TO CONSIDER THESE TWO CONDITIONS OF APPROVAL MODIFICATIONS, AS WELL AS THE 200 FOOT SETBACK MODIFICATION.
NOW, I WILL SAY SINCE SHAWN HAS REQUESTED THE STAFF REPORT FROM PLANNING COMMISSION TO BE INCLUDED IN THE PACKAGE.
A LOT OF THE LANGUAGE IS PRETTY SIMILAR, BUT WHAT I WILL CALL OUT, WHICH WAS LISTED IN THAT STAFF REPORT.
I CAN PULL IT UP HERE, GIVE ME A SECOND.
WERE SOME THINGS THAT I IDENTIFIED AS PART OF THE PRELIMINARY REVIEW THAT NEEDS TO BE UPDATED.
THE REST OF THE INFORMATION IS BASICALLY ALL THE SAME.
WHAT I'LL READ IS THE COMMENTS THAT I PROVIDED IN THAT STAFF REPORT.
THE GENERAL CONSENSUS ON THE REST OF THE INFORMATION IS PRETTY CLOSE TO THE SAME.
ONE OF THE THINGS THAT IS REQUIRED TO BE SHOWN ARE ALL THE RESIDENTIAL DWELLINGS WITHIN 100 FEET OF THE FACILITY.
THAT WASN'T INCLUDED ON THE SITE PLAN SET, SO THAT'LL HAVE TO BE IF THE BOARD APPROVES, WE'LL HAVE TO BE UPDATED PRIOR TO GOING FOR A FINAL SITE PLAN APPROVAL.
ONE OF THE OTHER THINGS IS THE CRITICAL AREA BOUNDARY.
IT IS DELINEATED ON THE PLANS.
HOWEVER, THE CRITICAL ZONING DESIGNATION IS IS NOT LABELED.
BASICALLY THAT PORTION OF THE PROPERTY THAT IS WITHIN THE RCA NEEDS TO BE LABELED THAT WAY AND THE LAST COMMENT WAS JUST ABOUT THE 200 FOOT SETBACK.
THE PROPOSED PLANS DON'T MEET THE 200 FOOT SETBACK REQUIREMENT.
THE ZONING ADMINISTRATOR AND OR PLANNING COMMISSION MUST REVIEW THE SETBACK MODIFICATION REQUEST AND MAKE A RECOMMENDATION TO THE VCA.
THEY'VE DONE THAT. THEY REVIEWED IT.
THEY MADE A POSITIVE RECOMMENDATION TO YOU.
THAT'S THE GENERAL CONSENSUS OF THE STAFF REPORT.
NOW AS FAR AS THE PICTURES ARE CONCERNED, MAINLY WHAT'S HIGHLIGHTED ARE THE PICTURES OF THE SCREENING.
CATHERINE, ARE YOU WERE ABLE TO PULL THAT UP?
>> PREVIOUSLY, THE LAST EXPANSION, THE BOARD REQUIRED A 75 FOOT BUFFER AROUND THE FACILITY TO BE SCREENED.
SO THAT'S THE BUFFER THAT IS THERE.
IT'S VERY HARD TO SEE THE FACILITY.
YOU CAN SEE IT DRIVING SOUTH VERY SPORADICALLY AMONGST SOME OF THE TREES THERE.
BUT ALONG 328, IT'S PRETTY MUCH CAN'T SEE THROUGH OTHER THAN THE ENTRANCE LOCATION OF WHERE RICK HAD PREVIOUSLY GOT A PERMIT TO PUT A POLE BUILDING.
THAT'S THE ONLY OPENING ALONG THAT ROUTE THAT YOU CAN SEE INTO THE FACILITY.
LIKE I SAID, I THINK THAT WAS PROBABLY BACK IN 2008.
>> THE PICTURES INDICATED, LOOKS LIKE THEY'RE PRETTY GOOD SIZE.
>> YES. THAT'S ALL THAT I HAVE AS FAR AS THE STAFF REPORT.
AGAIN, I'M TOUCHING ON THE PLANNING COMMISSION STAFF REPORT AND THE PICTURES.
WE'LL INCLUDE THOSE AS EXHIBITS.
BUT IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR ME ABOUT SOME OF THE INFORMATION THAT'S BEEN SUBMITTED FOR THE APPLICATION OR IF YOU'D LIKE, WE CAN OPEN UP THE FLOOR TO MR. BREINING.
>> I'M GOOD WITH OPENING IT UP. ARE YOU?
>> MR. CHAIRMAN, [INAUDIBLE] REPRESENTING CAROLINE MATERIALS.
I'D LIKE TO GIVE YOU A LITTLE HISTORY OF THE PIT.
I'M SURE MOST OF YOU KNOW IT, YOU'VE DRIVEN BY IT FOR YEARS.
[01:00:01]
TO THE BEST OF OUR KNOWLEDGE, IT STARTED IN THE LATE 50S.I SAY TO THE BEST OF OUR KNOWLEDGE BECAUSE MEMORIES OF THE PIT WERE IN THE EARLY 60S.
AT THAT TIME, THERE WAS ONE, NO ORDINANCE IN THIS COUNTY, AND TWO, NO STATE LAW MINING.
STATE LAW CAME IN THE 75 AND THE ZONING CAME IN 64 AND 67.
MATTS WERE THE ORDINANCE CAME FIRST AND THE MAPS AND THE MATTS FIRST THEN THE ORDINANCE, BUT IT ALL GOT TOGETHER IN 67.
ONE OF THE INTERESTING THINGS ABOUT THAT ORDINANCE IS THAT IT INCLUDES SURFACE MINING.
IT WAS ALREADY SET UP TO INCLUDE SURFACE MINING.
WHAT HAPPENED AFTER THE 60S IS THAT IN 75, THE STATE PUT OUT THE MINING ORDINANCE AND I HAVE A COPY OF AN ARTICLE SHOWING THAT IT REQUIRED TWO THINGS.
IT REQUIRED THAT THERE BE RECLAMATION.
THE PROPERTY IS COMPLETELY LINED OUT OR WHEN IT WAS LINED OUT AND A RECLAMATION PLAN HAD TO BE SUBMITTED AND THE BOND HAD TO BE APPROVED.
ALL OF THAT IS STILL IN PLACE TODAY.
THE ANNOUNCER HIRE, BUT IT'S STILL IN PLACE.
I DO HAVE A COPY OF THIS ARTICLE WHICH RICK HAD IN HIS FILINGS JUST FOR INFORMATION PURPOSES.
>> DO YOU WANT TO TAKE THE MIC? [OVERLAPPING]
>> ONE OF THE THINGS [OVERLAPPING]. IT'S MORE FOR INFORMATION.
WE'RE NOT ASKING TO INCLUDE IT.
>> WE DON'T HAVE TO INCLUDE IT. GO AHEAD.
>> THERE WAS A QUESTION ABOUT THE LAST SET OF REQUIREMENTS SAID THAT THERE WAS TO BE NO WATER DISCHARGE FROM THE SITE.
WELL, IN 1980, ACCORDING TO SUMMER RICK'S RECORDS, THE WATER RESOURCES ADMINISTRATION AT THE TIME, REQUIRED THAT THE SITE DISCHARGE BE MONITORED, AND IT'S BEEN MONITORED EVERY MONTH SINCE THAT TIME.
I THINK MR. CALLAHAN HAS A COPY OF THE MOST RECENT MONITORING SAYING THAT IT'S NEVER BEEN OUT OF COMPLIANCE.
WITH THAT GENERAL BACKGROUND, IN 2005, THEY CAME IN FOR AN EXPANSION, AND THERE WAS A REQUIREMENT OF A BUFFER BEING PLANTED ALONG THE SIDES OF THE PROPERTY HAD TO BE 75 FEET WIDE.
AT THAT POINT, THERE WAS SOME QUESTION ABOUT WHETHER IT SHOULD BE MOVED BACK TO WHERE THE LIMIT WAS THE BOARD OF APPEALS REQUIRED THAT THE ALONG THE ROAD AND AS YOU SAW FROM EXHIBIT 15, IT HAS MATURED NOW AND IT DOES LARGELY SCREEN THE SITE EXCEPT FOR A COUPLE OF [INAUDIBLE] NOW, SINCE THAT TIME, MR. GREINING AND CAROLINE MATERIALS HAVE MINED THE SITE.
THEY ARE REQUESTING A SLIGHT CHANGE IN THE NUMBER OF TRUCKS PER DAY.
I THINK WE WOULD LIKE TO REQUEST AN AVERAGE OF 16 A DAY.
IT'S ON PAGE G103, I THINK OF THE SITE PLAN.
THE OTHER THING, WE ARE REQUESTING THAT WE ARE REQUIRED BY MDE TO CONTINUE TO MONITOR THAT ORDER DISCHARGE AND WE'LL CONTINUE TO DO SO.
WE WOULD LIKE THE INCORRECT INFORMATION REMOVED FROM WHATEVER DECISION THIS COURT MAKES TODAY.
WITH THAT, I'LL ASK MR. BREEDING SOME QUESTIONS. MR. BREEDING, WILL YOU PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS FOR THE RECORD?
>> ARE YOU A PRINCIPAL IN CAROLINE'S MATERIALS POLICY?
>> ARE THERE OTHER PRINCIPALS INVOLVED?
>> NOW, WITH RESPECT TO CAROLINE MATERIALS, CAN YOU TELL US WHAT THE BUSINESS IS AND WHAT IT DOES?
>> CAROLINE MATERIALS RUNS TO SERVICE. SO WE EXCAVATED [INAUDIBLE]
>> NOW, HOW LONG HAVE YOU PERSON BEEN INVOLVED IN THAT BUSINESS?
[01:05:02]
>> WELL, IN WORKING THE AT CAROLINE MATERIALS CURRENTLY?
>> WELL, I REMEMBER GOING IN THERE WITH MY DAD PROBABLY EARLY 60S.
IN 1974, IT BECAME OUR PRIMARY SOURCE OF MATERIAL FOR THIS AREA AND HASN'T BEEN EVER SINCE, AND STILL IS TODAY.
>> DO YOU RECALL WHAT, IF ANY REQUIREMENTS YOU HAD TO UNDERTAKE IN ORDER TO CONTINUE TO OPERATE THE MINE?
>> WHEN HE FIRST BECAME PERMANENT? WELL, [INAUDIBLE] WITH MY DAD DID WE HIRED ENGINEER AND HE HAD TO PLAN HAD TO HAVE SEVENTH TRACK AND THE WATER WAS MONITORED ONCE A MONTH, WHICH IT STILL IS TODAY DONE BY IN BARBARA CORP.
THEY ANALYZE IT AND THEN IN TURN GIVE US THE REPORT AND WE SUBMIT IT TO THE STATE.
>> IS THERE ONLY ONE DISCHARGE POINT [OVERLAPPING] ON THIS PROPERTY?
>> OF THE DISCHARGE POINT THAT IS MONITORED?
>> YES. NOW, LET'S TALK ABOUT SOME OF THE THINGS THAT YOU'RE REQUESTING.
BEFORE THERE WAS A CONDITION THAT YOU WERE NOT SUPPOSED TO USE A SCREEN.
CAN YOU TELL US FIRST OF ALL, [NOISE] KNOW SOMETIME.
WHAT IS THE SCREEN AND HOW DOES IT WORK?
>> IT'S A DIESEL ENGINE DRIVEN, AND IT'S A LABORATORY SCREEN THAT SEPARATES UNWANTED MATERIAL SUCH AS BRICKS ROCKS, AND LARGE ROCKS.
OUR SCREEN MAKES THREE TYPES OF MATERIAL.
>> ARE THERE SCREENS THAT DO USE WATER?
>> THIS IS NOT THE ONE THAT YOU WERE USING?
>> CAN YOU PLEASE TELL US WHAT TYPE OF MATERIALS THAT THE SCREEN PRODUCES?
>> WELL, WE CALL IT SCREEN DUSTBOARD BECAUSE THE SCREEN, SO THAT'S THE CLEANEST PRODUCT.
AS I SAID, IT MAKES THREE DIFFERENT PRODUCTS.
WHEN WE DO BANK PONE, WE TAKE THE LARGER ROCKS, ANYTHING.
IS A FIVE INCH DEPTH SO ANYTHING, FIVE INCHES AND ABOVE ALL.
THE SECOND DECK WOULD TAKE TWO INCHES AND ABOVE AND THEN THE REMAINING MATERIAL.
>> WHAT IS THE USE OF THE REMAINING MATERIAL?
>> THE GOOD MATERIAL IS MOSTLY ROAD BASE.
>> WHAT HAPPENS WITH THE LARGEST PIECES OF MATERIAL?
>> WE USE ROCKS FOR LANDSCAPE AND OTHER USES.
>> NOW, TELL US HOW THE SITE BEGAN TO BE DEVELOPED.
WHERE DID YOU START, WHERE DID YOU GO NEXT, AND WHY ARE YOU ASKING FOR THAT?
>> WELL, I GUESS IT STARTED IN THE 50S, THE COUNTY IS WHERE THIS ACTUALLY STARTED THE PROBLEM.
IT WAS STARTING ON THE MOST EASTERLY PART OF THE [INAUDIBLE] AND THEY JUST WORKED TOWARD THE WEST.
>> MOST EASTERLY PART OF THE CAR CLOSEST TO FOR [NOISE]?
>> NOW, WHAT ARE THE 14.99 ACRES THAT WE HEAR ABOUT TODAY, CAN YOU TELL US WHERE ON THE PROPERTY THAT IS?
>> IT'S ADJACENT TO 16, SO THAT'S PROBABLY, IT COULD BE THE SOUTHERN PART OF THE PROPERTY.
>> HOW FAR FROM THE WATER IS THAT AREA THAT YOU'RE PLANNING ON OWNING?
>> NOW, WITH RESPECT TO MINING IT, FIRST OF ALL, WHEN DO YOU EXPECT TO START AND HOW LONG DO YOU THINK IT WILL CONTINUE?
>> IT WOULD BE PROBABLY FIVE YEARS BEFORE WE START IN THIS SECTION, AND I WOULD IMAGINE IT WOULD LAST 20 OR 25 YEARS.
>> NOW, WHAT IS YOUR PURPOSE IN ASKING FOR THIS PERMISSION TODAY? > > JUST IN PLANNING FOR THE FUTURE.
>> WHAT, IF ANY, CONTRACTS DID YOU HAVE THAT COULD REQUIRE MATERIAL PRIOR TO THAT TIME?
[01:10:02]
>> WELL, COUNTY ROSE USES [INAUDIBLE].
THAT'S ONE OF THE PRIMARY PEOPLE WE SUPPLY.
>> NOW, LET'S TALK FOR A MINUTE ABOUT THE HOURS OF OPERATION.
CURRENTLY, WHAT ARE YOUR HOURS OF OPERATION?
>> WOULD 6:00-6:00 SOUND APPROPRIATE?
>> THAT'S WHAT'S ON [INAUDIBLE].
WHAT ABOUT DO YOU WORK AT ALL ON SATURDAYS?
>> WE DO. NOT EVERY SATURDAY, BUT WE DO.
>> WHAT HOURS DO YOU WORK IF YOU WORK ON SATURDAY?
>> WHAT ABOUT FEDERAL HOLIDAYS? DO YOU WORK ON FEDERAL HOLIDAYS?
>> DO YOU WORK AT ALL ON SUNDAYS?
>> NO. >> WELL, LET ME ASK YOU A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS ABOUT THE SITE ITSELF.
DO YOU HAVE ANY PROBLEM WITH TRESPASSERS?
>> HAVE THE POLICE BEEN CALLED THERE FOR ANY REASON?
>> ONE TRESPASS, FOR SOME REASON, [INAUDIBLE].
>> THE ENTRANCE IS CONSTRICTED.
>> NOW, DOES ANYBODY LIVE ON THE PROPERTY?
>> NOBODY'S GOING TO SCHOOL NOR HEADING TO THE SCHOOLS?
>> WHAT ABOUT FIRE PROTECTION? ARE THERE ANY BUILDINGS ON THE PROPERTY THAT REQUIRE FIRE PROTECTION?
>> YEAH. THERE'S BUILDINGS THAT REQUIRE PROTECTION.
>> WHAT TYPE OF BUILDINGS DO YOU HAVE AND WHERE ARE THEY LOCATED?
>> IT'S A STEEL STRUCTURE [INAUDIBLE]
>> THAT WAS THE PICTURE THAT WE SAW ON EXHIBIT 14 OF THE BUILDING?
>> IS THAT THE BUILDING THAT YOU CAN SEE ON THE RIGHT-HAND SIDE OF THE PICTURE THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT AND IS PARTIALLY OBSCURED BY TREE?
>> WILL THERE BE A GATE THERE?
>> THERE SHOULD BE, COULD BE. I'M CERTAIN TO DO THAT.
>> NOW, WITH RESPECT TO THE OPERATION, HOW MANY TRUCKS A DAY DO YOU EXPECT CURRENTLY AND IS IT THE SAME AS EVERYDAY?
>> YOU'RE REQUESTING AN AVERAGE?
>> SIXTEEN PER A DAY, BUT THAT'S AN AVERAGE.
>> IT COULD BE LESS, IT COULD BE NONE.
>> YOUR AVERAGE IS 16 A DAY, BUT YOU'RE ASKING FOR 16 MORE?
>> NO. THE OLD LIMIT WAS PER WEEK AND WE WOULD LIKE TO MOVE UP TO 16 PER DAY.
>> JUST WANT TO CLARIFY THAT. GO AHEAD.
>> THANK YOU FOR KEEPING ME STRAIGHT.
>> WELL, WE'RE ASKING FOR AN AVERAGE OF 16.
ONE DAY IT MIGHT BE 19, ONE DAY IT MIGHT BE THREE.
NOW, WITH RESPECT TO THE SCREEN, HOW MANY DAYS A WEEK ARE YOU CURRENTLY SCREENING MATERIAL?
>> THAT, AGAIN, IS SOME WEEKS, NONE.
>> WOULD YOU SAY IT'S AN AVERAGE OF 2-3?
>> THAT'S GOING TO DEPEND ON DEMAND.
>> IT'S GOING TO DEPEND ON DEMAND, WEATHER.
>> DO YOU HAVE ANYTHING ELSE THAT YOU WOULD LIKE TO TELL US ABOUT THIS PROPERTY BEFORE MR. CALLAHAN GIVES US SOME SPECIFICS?
>> NO, I THINK YOU'VE COVERED IT.
>> MR. CHAIRMAN, I'D LIKE TO CALL SEAN CALLAHAN ON LANE ENGINEERING, PLEASE.
[01:15:04]
>> MR. CALLAHAN, YOU'VE ALREADY GIVE US YOUR NAME AND YOUR ADDRESS.
TELL US WHAT LANE ENGINEERING DOES.
>> LANE ENGINEERING IS LAND SURVEYING AND CIVIL ENGINEERING FOR A HOST OF PROJECTS.
WE'VE BEEN BECOME FAMILIAR WITH MINING PROJECTS THROUGHOUT THE YEAR.
>> NOW, WOULD YOU TELL US A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THIS PROJECT?
>> I'D LIKE YOU TO PUT THE EXHIBIT ON SCREEN IF YOU COULD, KATHERINE.
THE MINING PLANS ARE THE BIG PAPER SET THAT YOU-ALL HAVE.
WE HAVE DEVELOPED THE SYSTEM OVER THE YEARS OF SIMPLY PUTTING EVERYTHING ON THE PLAN SO THAT IT'S ALL IN ONE PLACE SO THAT PEOPLE CAN FIND ALL THE INFORMATION IF THERE'S A QUESTION ABOUT WHAT'S GOING ON.
THE COVER SHEET SIMPLY HAS A PLACE FOR THE OWNER'S SIGNATURE AS A SEDIMENT CONTROL PLAN AND THE MINING PLAN.
THE SECOND SHEET HAS SITE INFORMATION, NOTES REGARDING THE SITE, AND WE'VE ALSO ADDED ALL OF THE HISTORICAL CONDITIONS FROM THE PRIOR SPECIAL EXCEPTION TO THE PLAN.
WE ARE PROPOSING TO AMEND CONDITION 10 OF THE FORMER CONDITIONS, CONDITION 17 OF THE FORMER CONDITIONS, AND CONDITION 19 OF THE FORMER CONDITIONS.
>> TEN IS THAT READING SHALL NOT ESTABLISH A WASH PLANT, CONVEYORS, OR SCREEN.
WE TALKED TO THE PLANNING COMMISSION.
I BELIEVE THE PLANNING COMMISSION AGREED THAT WE COULD REQUEST UP TO, WAS IT THREE OR FOUR DAYS OF THE SCREENING PER WEEK? I THINK YOU'LL SEE IN THE PLANNING COMMISSION NOTES.
>> IS THERE ANY PLANS FOR A WASH PLANT?
>> NO. THERE'S NO WATER WASH PLANT TYPE OF PROJECT AT THIS SITE. THIS IS A DRY MINE.
>> THE ONLY CHANGE WE'RE ASKING FOR IS TO BE ABLE TO USE THE DRY SCREEN THAT SAID READING TALKED ABOUT?
>> NUMBER 17 SAYS WATER GENERATED FROM THE OPERATIONS AND OR USED ON SITE SHALL NOT BE DISCHARGED INTO ANY DRAINAGE, SEWERS, OR DITCHES THAT MAY CARRY SUCH WATER OFF SITE.
THE READING SHALL DEVELOP AND MAINTAIN A STORM WATER MANAGEMENT INSTEAD OF THE CONTROL DEVICES THAT PRECLUDE THE OFFSITE MIGRATION OF WATER AND SEDIMENTS THAT ARE GENERATED BY MINING OPERATIONS.
>> TELL US WHAT IS CURRENTLY ON SITE AND WHAT ARE THE OPEN AREAS ON SITE?
>> THE SITE DRAINS TO A CENTRAL SWALE, AND THE SWALE MEANDERS THROUGH THE SITE DOWN TOWARDS WATTS CREEK, AND THEN THERE'S A SEDIMENT POND AND THEN A RISER AND AN OUTFALL PIPE.
YOU CAN SEE THAT PIPE ON THE SITE PLAN ON SHEET V101 IS PROBABLY THE BEST SHEET, BUT IN ANY EVENT, WATER MIGRATES THROUGH THE SITE DOWN TOWARDS WATTS CREEK AND THEN FILLS UP AND OVERFLOWS THROUGH AN OUTFALL PIPE.
>> WOULD YOU SHOW US ON THE SITE PLAN.
>> SEAN, I COULDN'T OPEN THE FILE YOU JUST GAVE ME.
>> THE PIPE IS APPROXIMATELY HERE.
>> CAN YOU SHOW US WHERE WATTS CREEK IS ON THAT PICTURE?
>> IT'S ALL THIS HEAVY SHADED AREA BEYOND THE SHORELINE, S IT'S THIS THICK LINE ON THE SHORELINE.
>> I'M NOT SURE WHAT'S GOING ON.
>> IT'S EVERYTHING NORTH OF THAT.
>> MR. BREEDING MADE REFERENCE TO WATER TESTING.
I DO HAVE A LETTER THAT I'LL HAND TO THE BOARD WHICH DOES CONFIRM THAT THE ENTITY THAT DOES THE WATER TESTING IS ENVIROCORP.
THEIR RECORDS GO BACK TO 2019 WHEN THEY CHANGED TO A NEW SYSTEM.
THEY WERE PROBABLY TESTING WATER BEFORE THAT, BUT THE RECORDS THEY HAVE IN THEIR RECORDS NOW GO BACK TO 2019.
[01:20:07]
THE LETTER SAYS ALL SAMPLES THAT ENVIROCORP LAB HAS COLLECTED FOR OE BREEDING/CAROLINE MATERIALS FOR TOTAL SUSPENDED SOLIDS, DATING BACK TO JULY 9TH OF 2019, TO OCTOBER 8TTH OF 2024, IN OUR CURRENT LENS SYSTEM THAT WE PURCHASED IN 2019 HAVE REPORTED BELOW YOUR PERMITTED MONTHLY LIMIT OF 30 MILLIGRAMS PER LITER.I THINK THAT THAT'S IMPORTANT TO NOTE THAT WHILE THEY HAVE AN OUTFALL THAT SOMEHOW GOT MISSED UNDER THE PRIOR SPECIAL EXCEPTION, IT'S BEEN TESTED AND APPROVED AND IT IS MONTHLY.
>> DOES THE SITE HAVE ANY OTHER INSPECTION OR OVERSIGHT BY MDE.
>> MDE DOES SURPRISE INSPECTIONS AND THEY DO REGULAR INSPECTIONS.
THE LAST ONE THAT RICK HAS IN HIS FILES WAS 3920, AND BASICALLY, IT'S A CLEAN BILL OF HEALTH.
IT SAYS THE SITE IS IN COMPLIANCE AND THERE ARE NO KNOWN ISSUES OR MATTERS TO BE ADDRESSED.
>> HAVE THERE BEEN ANY OTHER WRITTEN REPORTS GENERATED SINCE THAT TIME TO THE BEST OF YOUR KNOWLEDGE?
>> NONE TO THE BEST OF MY KNOWLEDGE.
>> ARE INSPECTIONS ONGOING SINCE THAT TIME?
>> DO YOU KNOW THE NAME OF THE INSPECTOR?
I BELIEVE HE LIVES IN CAROLINE COUNTY.
>> HAS HE NOTED ANY PROBLEMS WITH THE SITE?
>> COULD YOU PLEASE TELL US ABOUT NUMBER 19?
>> NUMBER 19 IS THE TRUCKS PER DAY.
NUMBER 19 SAYS AN AVERAGE OF 30 LOADS PER WEEK FROM THE SITE.
AS YOU HEARD MR. BREEDING WOULD LIKE TO INCREASE THAT TO AN AVERAGE OF 16 PER DAY.
>> MR. CALLAHAN, WHY, IF YOU KNOW, WAS THIS PARTICULAR AREA CHOSEN FOR AN EXPANSION?
>> WELL, IT'S THE LAST MATERIAL LEFT ON THE PROPERTY THAT'S UNDISTURBED.
THERE ARE VARIOUS POCKETS OF GOOD AND BAD MATERIAL, BUT THIS IS THE LAST OF THE FARMLAND ON THE SITE AND IT'S TUCKED UP CLOSER TO ROUTE 16 AWAY FROM THE WATTS CREEK AND AWAY FROM THE SURROUNDING RESIDENTS.
>> NOW, WITH RESPECT TO MINING, WHAT IS THE ADVANTAGE TO MINING THE LAST AREA ON THIS SITE FOR THE PUBLIC IN GENERAL?
>> WELL, IT'S WELL AWAY FROM THE TIDAL WATERS OF WATTS CREEK.
IT'S ACTUALLY 2,500 AT ITS FURTHEST AND 1,600 AT ITS CLOSEST.
IT'S WELL AWAY FROM WHAT WOULD BE CONSIDERED ENVIRONMENTALLY SENSITIVE AREAS.
>> LET'S TALK ABOUT THE SETBACK FOR A MINUTE.
CURRENTLY, UNDER THE EXISTING CONDITIONS, THERE WAS REQUIRED TO BE PUT IN PLACE A 75-FOOT [INAUDIBLE]. HAS THAT BEEN DONE?
>> IT'S IN PLACE, AND HEALTHY.
>> NOW, WITH RESPECT TO THE 200-FOOT BUFFER, WHEN DID THAT COME INTO EXISTENCE?
>> I THINK 2017 APPROXIMATELY WHEN THAT REGULATION WAS PROMULGATED.
>> THE 75-FOOT HAD BEEN PERMITTED IN 2005?
>> ARE YOU AWARE OF ANY CONVERSATION CONCERNING THAT 75-FOOT BUFFER BETWEEN THE COUNTY AND MR. GREEN?
>> WHEN THE COUNTY WAS DISCUSSING CHANGES TO THE ZONING CODE TO INCLUDE THE 200 FOOT SETBACK, RICK TOLD ME THAT HE WAS ASSURED BY THE COUNTY COMMISSIONERS THAT THERE WOULD BE AN OPPORTUNITY FOR EXISTING MINES TO NOT HAVE TO COMPLY WITH THE 200-FOOT SETBACK IF THERE WAS AN EXISTING SETBACK THAT HAD ALREADY BEEN ESTABLISHED.
THEY SAID THAT, PARAPHRASING RICK, YOU DON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT THAT.
I THINK WHAT THAT GOT MORPHED INTO IS
[01:25:01]
THE ABILITY FOR AN APPLICANT TO COME AND ASK FOR RELIEF FROM THE 200-FOOT SETBACK GIVEN SPECIAL CIRCUMSTANCES AS COULD BE DETERMINED BY THE BOARD AND THE PLANNING COMMISSION.>> MR. MATT TOLD THAT THE PLANNING COMMISSION HAS APPROVED THE CHANGED TO 75 FEET?
>> THEY HAVE. I HAVE AN EXHIBIT, KATHERINE.
I DON'T KNOW IF YOU CAN TRY AGAIN TO GET INTO THAT THUMB DRIVE THAT I GAVE YOU, BUT I'D LIKE TO SHOW THE BOARD, AND I GUESS, THE ATTENDANCE THIS.
THE AREAS THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT ON EITHER SIDE OF THE NEW BARN, THIS AREA HERE ON THE WEST AND THIS AREA HERE ON THE EAST.
IF WE'RE REQUIRED TO LEAVE THAT 200-FOOT OF MATERIAL AND NOT GO TO THE 75-FOOT LIKE THE REST OF THE PROPERTY, WE'RE GOING TO STRAND ABOUT FIVE-AND-A-HALF ACRES OF MATERIAL.
THIS IS 2.9 ACRES OF MATERIAL HERE, AND THIS IS 2.4 ACRES OF MATERIAL HERE.
YOU CAN IMAGINE LEAVING THAT FIVE ACRES THERE [INAUDIBLE] IF THE MARKET NEEDS IT, IT'S JUST GOING TO GO TO SOME OTHER FARM AND EXCAVATE THAT.
I THINK THAT THE FLEXIBILITY THE COMMISSIONERS WERE THINKING WAS SIMPLY TO CONTINUE THAT EXISTING GRADE LINE DOWN AND MAKE A UNIFORM EXCAVATION.
>> COULD YOU SHOW THE AUDIENCE?
>> IT'S C1 AND 2 [INAUDIBLE]. THAT'S IT.
>> THAT'S IT. THIS IS THE EXISTING MINE PLAN GRID COMING DOWN FROM [INAUDIBLE] TO THE BOTTOM OF THE MINE AND THIS IS THE 200-FOOT SETBACK.
IMAGINE THIS GRID LINE HAVING TO COME OUT LIKE THIS [INAUDIBLE] 75 FEET FROM THAT PROPERTY LINE OR IS IT 200 FEET FROM THAT PROPERTY LINE.
THAT AREA WOULD HAVE TO REMAIN UNMINED AND YOU WOULD STRAND THAT MATERIAL FOREVER AND IT WOULD BE LOST TO THE MARKET WHERE SOME OTHER CONTRACTOR WOULD HAVE TO PROVIDE THAT MATERIAL TO THE MARKET.
HAVE YOU MADE THE CORRECTIONS THAT WERE RECOMMENDED BY THE PLANNING COMMISSION AND STAFF?
>> SO YOU'RE SHOWING THE CRITICAL AREA BOUNDARY?
>> CAN YOU SHOW US ON THE SITE PLAN CRITICAL AREA OF BOUNDARY?
>> BEST SHEET FOR THAT IS EITHER VV101 OR VV102, WHICH ARE FAXED AND SENT AT THE BEGINNING OF THE SET.
THE CRITICAL AREA DOWN 1,000 FEET OF TIDE.
IT PRETTY MUCH CUTS THE PROPERTY IN HALF.
>> NOW, THE DARK SHADED AREA IS AT THE CURRENT COMMENT?
>> THAT THE EXHIBIT LINE. YES. [INAUDIBLE].
>> COULD YOU SHOW US THE SHEET JUST PRIOR TO THAT, PLEASE? I WAS LOOKING FOR THE COLORED ONE. THERE YOU GO.
CAN YOU SHOW US WHERE THE CRITICAL AREA LINE IS ON THAT? PART OF THE PERMANENT AREA IS ALREADY WITHIN THE CRITICAL AREA?
>> YEAH. THAT PART OF THE PROPERTY IS SEMI RETIRED.
A LOT OF MATERIAL IS GONE AND THAT AREA IS STILL ACTIVE, BUT MOST OF THE MATERIAL IS AT A CRITICAL AREA.
>> THE STATE IS THE ONE THAT PERMITS THAT AREA, CORRECT?
>> YEAH. THERE'S A MINING PERMIT THAT EXISTS SINCE 1960 ON THAT PART OF THE PROPERTY.
>> I HAVE NO OTHER QUESTIONS, MR. [INAUDIBLE].
[01:30:08]
I WOULD LIKE TO CALL MR. TURNER.MR. TURNER, WILL YOU PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME AND YOUR ADDRESS FOR THE RECORD.
>> MY NAME IS WILLIAM FITZ TURNER.
MY BUSINESS ADDRESS IS 1102 BUTTERWORTH COURT SUITE 200 IN STEVENSVILLE, MARYLAND.
>> WHAT IS YOUR OCCUPATION, SIR?
>> I AM A REAL ESTATE APPRAISER.
>> WHAT CERTIFICATION DO YOU HOLD FOR REAL ESTATE APPRAISING?
>> I AM A CERTIFIED GENERAL APPRAISER.
>> WHAT DOES THAT MEAN IF YOU HAVE TO LAY FACTS?
>> WELL, THAT MEANS THAT I'M QUALIFIED TO BE ABLE TO TAKE ON ANY TYPES OF REAL ESTATE APPRAISALS IN MARYLAND.
>> DID YOU PREPARE A COPY OF YOUR CURRICULUM DTI?
>> I WOULD LIKE TO SUBMIT A COPY TO THE BOARD AND AS AN EXHIBIT NUMBER 15, PLEASE.
>> NOW, MR. TURNER, ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH HAVING DONE APPRAISALS CONCERNING PROPERTY VALUES AND PROPERTIES MIXED VALUES?
>> DO YOU RECALL WHEN YOU FIRST DID YOUR FIRST ONE?
>> WAS THAT IN CAROLINE COUNTY?
>> SINCE THAT TIME, APPROXIMATELY HOW MANY TIMES HAVE YOU LOOKED AT THE ISSUE OF PROPERTY VALUES ADJOINING A SURFACE MINING?
>> I WOULD SAY IT COMES UP BECAUSE I HAD A COUPLE OF YEARS, BUT IT COMES UP EVERY TWO OR THREE YEARS AND OR SOMETIMES MAYBE FIVE YEARS APART.
I'VE BEEN APPRAISING NOW FOR 40 YEARS.
>> NOW, HAVE YOU HAD AN OPPORTUNITY TO LOOK AT PROPERTY SURROUNDING THIS PARTICULAR MINE?
>> WHAT CAN YOU TELL US ABOUT THE PROPERTY VALUES OF PROPERTY CONCERNING THIS PARTICULAR MINE?
>> I COULDN'T FIND IF THERE WAS ANY DIFFERENCE IN THE PROPERTY VALUES HERE AS COMPARED TO A PROPERTY THAT WAS A DISTANCE AWAY, THAT WAS NOT NEAR A MINE.
>> NOW, DO YOU HAVE AN EXHIBIT THAT YOU PREPARED?
IT'S THE AERIAL MAP OF THE AREA.
>> WOULD YOU LIKE TO INCLUDE THAT AS AN EXHIBIT?
>> WE'LL KEEP YOU HONEST, ANN.
>> NO, WE JUST KEEP ADDING TO IT, AND I JUST HEARD YOU SAY, AND I REMEMBERED. I'M PAYING ATTENTION.
>> MR. TURNER, COULD YOU TELL US WHAT THIS REPRESENTS, PLEASE?
>> WELL, YOU HAVE A PHOTOGRAPH OF THE MAP HERE.
I'VE NOTED THE TWO PROPERTIES.
>> I NEED ONE OF THOSE PLEASE.
>> THE TWO PROPERTIES THAT ARE TO WEST OF THE PROPERTY, FURTHER DOWN ON WATTS CREEK.
THERE WERE TWO SALES, ONE IN 2017 OF THE WOODLAND ADJOINING THE SUBJECT PROPERTY, AND I'VE GOT A CIRCLE ON WHERE THE HOUSE SITS OUT NEAR THE WATTS CREEK, AND THEN THE NEXT PROPERTY OVER THAT WAS A SALE IN 2021, AND I'VE GOT THE SALE PRICES OF THOSE PROPERTIES.
THE MARKET IN CAROLINE COUNTY,
[01:35:02]
IF YOU'VE BEEN HERE FOR ANY TIME, YOU KNOW THAT WE WENT THROUGH A HUGE CRASH IN 2008.THE WORST PART OF IT WAS WHEN THE OTTER'S WORLD CLOSED AND PUT THE PROPERTIES INTO BANKRUPTCY, THEIR PROPERTIES.
THIS HAD BEEN AT EAST COAST CENTRAL DISTRIBUTION FACILITY FOR THEM.
WHEN THEY CLOSED UP, THERE WERE A LOT OF PEOPLE IN CAROLINE COUNTY THAT WERE PUTTING IN A HARD WAY.
CAROLINE COUNTY DID NOT RECOVER.
IN FACT, THE SHORES REALLY DID NOT GET INTO BALANCE ON REAL ESTATE UNTIL 2019-'20.
WE WERE STILL AND IN 2017, WE STILL WERE HAVING FORECLOSURES GOING ON.
IT WAS A TOUGH MARKET TO GO IN AND LOOK SO IT WAS A WIDE VARIETY, BUT THERE WERE LESS PROPERTIES ON THE MARKET AT THE TIME.
I WENT THROUGH AND LOOKED AT ALL THE SALES FOR A YEAR BEFORE, A YEAR AFTER THE 2017 SALE.
I MEAN, YOU GOT A WATERFRONT. WHAT IS THE WATERFRONT? YOU GOT TO LOOK AT THE QUALITY OF THE WATERFRONT.
WATTS CREEK IS NOT A DEEP PIECE OF WATER.
HOW DOES THAT HOUSE COMPARE? IT'S A REALLY NICE HOUSE ON THAT PROPERTY.
IT'S GOT VAULTED CEILINGS AND THINGS, BUT IT WAS A 2005 BUILT.
THE FAMILY THAT OWN AND BUILT IT AND HAD IT ON THE MARKET SEVERAL TIMES, IT DIDN'T END UP GOING THROUGH, IT HAD BEEN LISTED BY TWO DIFFERENT AGENCIES, BUT IT WAS FINALLY SOLD, I GUESS BY THE OWNERS OR MAYBE OR IT JUST TOOK A LONG TIME BETWEEN WHEN IT WENT EXPIRED AND THE LISTING WENT TO CLOSING.
BUT WHEN I LOOK AT THE PRICE AT 564, THAT FALLS RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF THAT RANGE AT THAT TIME FOR PROPERTIES OF SIMILAR QUALITY FOR HOUSE OR HAVING THE ACREAGE.
YOU GOT A LOT OF DIFFERENT PLACES.
IF YOU'VE GOT A REALLY NICE HOUSE ON TWO ACRES, AND DEEP WATER ON GILPIN POINT, OR IT'S GOING TO SELL FOR A HIGHER NUMBER, IF YOU'VE GOT A HOUSE.
I LOOK AT A LOT OF THEM AND I GET INVOLVED IN THE DIVORCE CASE, A LOT OF DIFFERENT THINGS.
THE MARKET WAS GREATLY IMPROVED IN 2021.
WE HAD WITH THE COVID, WHICH WAS PHENOMENAL WHEN WE WENT THROUGH, IN THE COUNTIES WENT FROM NO SALES.
BUT IT WAS INTERESTING BECAUSE I WRITE A REPORT WHEN I DO MY NEIGHBORHOOD AND AREA DATA WHEN I'M DOING FARMS OR COMMERCIAL PROPERTIES, I'M LOOKING AT WHAT'S GOING ON IN THE MARKET.
WE WENT FROM IN 2017, 650 OF 400 LISTINGS AND 200 SALES TO 1920 BEFORE JUNE OR BEFORE MARCH OF 2020 WITH ANNUAL BALANCE.
I LOOKED AT IT. WE HAD 400 SALES IN 2019 AND 400 LISTINGS IN ONE COUNTY. THAT THING.
IT WAS IN QUEEN ANNE COUNTY, CAROLINE COUNTY, KENT COUNTY, TOMA COUNTY.
THEN IT WENT CRAZY, AND OF COURSE, AFTER COVID AND ALL THE PEOPLE MOVED OUT OF THE CITIES, AND I'M SURPRISED THEY HAVEN'T ALL WANTED TO GO HOME AND GET THEIR LATTES.
THEY HAVEN'T DUMPED THE PROPERTY SINCE THEN, BUT THE PROPERTIES JUMPED UP, WE USED UP A WHOLE LOT AND THE INVENTORY GOT SHORTER, SO THAT BY THE TIME WE GOT INTO 2021 ACTUALLY WE HAD GOTTEN A REAL SHORT SUPPLY.
NOW, THIS MOTION'S PROPERTY ACCORDING TO THE PHOTOGRAPHS THAT WERE LISTED SIX MONTHS BEFORE THE SALE.
I DON'T KNOW THAT THEY HAD DONE MAJOR RENOVATIONS THERE, BUT THE HOUSE WAS NOT IN GREAT SHAPE.
I COULD GIVE YOU PICTURES IF YOU NEEDED TO, BUT IT WAS IN ROUGH SHAPE.
IT GOT A GOOD PRICE FOR THE CONDITION AND THE ACREAGE AND SITS RIGHT ON THE EDGE OF THE WATER.
IT LOOKS ACROSS AT THE CAMP AND UP AND DOWN THAT MOUNT.
IF I WAS LOOKING AT ANOTHER PROPERTY I'D SAY, THESE ARE GOOD SAMPLINGS OF PROPERTIES THAT ARE NOT AFFECTED BY THE MARKET.
IT WAS INTERESTING WHEN THE TRIPLES WERE HERE.
I REMEMBER I WAS DOING AN APPRAISAL.
[01:40:02]
I'M THINKING IT WAS FOR DOWN OFF JUST BY CHERRY LANE ON THE [INAUDIBLE] AND THEY WERE DOING THE EXPANSION.I LOOKED AT THE TRIPLES FARM BECAUSE HE'S RIGHT NEXT TO DEER RUN, AND THERE WERE SOME SALES RIGHT NEXT TO THE FARM AND GOOD SALES AT THE OTHER END CLOSER TO TUCKAHOE RIVER ROAD AND NEW BRIDGE.
WHAT YEAR WAS IT, BILL? DOES IT HAVE THOSE THINGS? ON AND ON AS I LOOK AT THESE DIFFERENT PROPERTIES, I KNOW THERE MAY BE NATIONAL STUDIES.
I DON'T KNOW WHO DID THE STUDIES, AND I HAVEN'T HAD A CHANCE TO GO THROUGH THEM.
BUT I KNOW THAT HERE ON THE SHORE, IT'S A RURAL AREA OR WHATEVER REASON IT IS, THERE ISN'T A DIFFERENCE.
THE QUESTION ISN'T JUST IS THERE NO DIFFERENCE, BUT IS IT GOING TO BE WORSE IF YOU HAVE IT HERE THAN IF YOU PUT IT OVER HERE OR OVER THERE IN THE COUNTY.
IN FACT, I'M GOING ON TOO LONG, BUT I HAD A TRAINEE THAT WAS GOOD, PRETTY BRIGHT, AND I GAVE HER AN ASSIGNMENT BECAUSE I WAS WORKING ON IT.
I TOLD HER HERE THESE 15 PITS, BORCHSTER, QUEEN ANNE, KENT, CAROLINE, EVEN THE NORTH PART OF WYCOON COVE.
I SAID, I WANT YOU TO GO AND LOOK AT THE SALES THAT HAD TAKEN PLACE NEXT TO IT.
NOW I WANT YOU TO FIND A HOUSE HALF MILE AWAY, TWO MILES AWAY. WHAT DID IT SELL FOR? I SAID, I WANT TO SHOW THAT THE HOUSE NEXT TO THE PIT HAS A LOWER VALUE.
SHE COMES TO ME, SHE'S WORKING ON IT, AND SHE COMES TO ME THREE WEEKS LATER, AND SHE SAID, I CAN'T FIND ANY.
THAT WAS HER ASSIGNMENT WAS TO FIND THEM.
I LOOK EVERY TIME, I GO BACK IN AND I DO ONE OF THESE TYPE PROPERTIES.
I GO BACK TO THOSE, I GO BACK TO OLD PITS THAT I'VE LOOKED AT BEFORE, AND TO SEE, IS THERE A CHANGE? IS THE MARKET CHANGING? HAVE THE MILLENNIALS CHANGED WHAT THEY'RE LOOKING FOR? I HAVEN'T FOUND IT YET.
>> BUT DO YOU HAVE AN OPINION AS TO WHETHER OR NOT PROXIMITY TO THE SURFACE LINE AFFECTS THE VALUE OF PROPERTY?
>> IN MY OPINION, IT DOES NOT AFFECT THE PROPERTY VALUE HERE IN THIS REGION.
>> MY RESIDENT COUNTY IS AROUND HERE.
>> NO OTHER QUESTIONS FOR MR. TURNER. [INAUDIBLE].
>> NO. I THINK WE'RE GOOD ON THAT. THANK YOU.
>> THAT WOULD BE IN THIS CASE.
AT THIS POINT, I WOULD LIKE TIME TO SUM UP THE MEETING.
>> I GUESS I'LL START WITH ANYBODY THAT WANTS TO TALK THAT IS IN FAVOR OF CAROLINE MATERIALS.
NOW'S YOUR CHANCE TO COME FORWARD. I'LL START NOW.
>> I'LL GO AHEAD AND START. ANYBODY THAT'S IN OPPOSITION OF CAROLINE MATERIALS.
YOU CAN COME UP ONE AT A TIME, STATE YOUR CASE.
I JUST WANT TO ADDRESS THAT IF YOU COME UP, TRY TO HIT YOUR KEY POINTS BECAUSE IT LOOKS LIKE THERE'S GOING TO BE A LOT OF PEOPLE THAT WANT TO TALK.
>> KEEP IT AT FIVE MINUTES, IF YOU CAN.
BECAUSE IT GETS TOO DRAWN OUT.
WE JUST NEED YOU TO BE VERY CONCISE ABOUT WHAT YOU NEED TO SHARE SO WE CAN MOVE IT ALONG. THANK YOU.
>> ANYBODY WANTS TO START, COME START?
>> MY NAME IS MATTHEW SARWLL. I LIVE AT TWO IN FOUR PEELER ROAD.
ON THE MAP, MY PROPERTY IS RIGHT HERE ADJOINING THE APPLICANT'S PROPERTY.
MY ONLY QUESTIONS THAT I WOULD HAVE, FIRST OFF, IS JUST LOOKING AT THIS MAP THAT SHADED AREA.
I DON'T UNDERSTAND THE SHADING THAT RUNS DIRECTLY THROUGH THE CENTER OF MY PROPERTY.
I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT THAT MEANS.
I CAN'T I CAN'T SAY FOR FOR EFFECT, BUT WITH THE 200-FOOT BOUNDARY RULE THAT HAS BEEN PUT IN PLACE, MY ASSUMPTION WOULD BE IS AS YOU'RE GETTING CLOSER TO 16,
[01:45:01]
YOU ARE ENCOUNTERING HOUSE AFTER HOUSE AFTER HOUSE.IT WOULD BE IN MY OPINION THAT THE 200-FOOT RULE WOULD BE ACCEPTABLE FOR ME JUST BECAUSE I DO HAVE ADJOINING PROPERTY.
TO GO ALONG WITH QUESTIONS IN THE FUTURE, I'VE LIVED AT THIS PROPERTY FOR 27 YEARS NOW.
IN THE FUTURE, THIS IS PROBABLY NOT MY FOREVER HOME.
I'VE GOT KIDS THEY'RE JUST ABOUT DONE OF HIGH SCHOOL, AND THE MISSES AND I AFTER WE RETIRE.
MY QUESTION WOULD BE, WHAT DOES THAT DO TO MY PROPERTY VALUE IF THERE'S AN EXCAVATOR 75 FOOT OFF THAT PROPERTY LINE DIRECTLY BEHIND MY HOUSE AT SOME POINT IN THE FUTURE.
THAT WOULD BE A HARDER SELL THAN SAYING, WELL, RIGHT NOW THAT EXCAVATOR IS 400 FEET FROM THE HOUSE.
YOU CAN'T REALLY HEAR IT PUT IN 75 FEET.
THAT BEING SAID ALSO, WANTING TO START EARLIER THAN 7:00 IN THE MORNING.
PROBABLY NOT THE BEST WITH RESIDENTIAL HOUSES RIGHT HERE.
I GUESS THAT'S THE EXTENT OF WHAT I HAVE.
>> SEAN, DO YOU WANT TO ADDRESS WHAT HE'S ASKED?
WE FLEW THE SITE FOR AERIAL TOPOGRAPHY THE CONDITIONS OF THE MINE.
THAT'S JUST A SAVE FROM THE TOPOGRAPHY.
THERE'S NO INTENTION TO SHOW PROPERTY THAT'S A SHADE FROM MY PICTURE. SO THAT'S NOT.
>> IS THERE A WAY THAT YOU CAN IDENTIFY WHERE HIS PROPERTY IS ON ANOTHER IMAGE AND GIVE SOME REFERENCE AS TO THE SETBACK FOR HIM, AND WHAT THAT MIGHT LOOK LIKE FROM HIS PROPERTY? SHAN.
>> I CAN SEE THE TREE PROBABLY BEST DESCRIBE IT RIGHT HERE.
>> YEAH. THIS LAST ONE JUST GIVE ME THERE'S A TRUCK ON THE INSIDE.
>> I MEAN, I CAN SEE THE COMBINES COME THROUGH AND GET FORM.
>> BUT TO THE EXTENT THAT I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE QUESTION IS OTHER THAN THE SHADE IS A SHADE FROM THE PHOTO.
BUT THEN THE 75 FEET WHAT ELSE DISCS.
YOUR TESTIMONY IS THAT THERE'S NO ADVERSE EFFECT.
IF THERE WAS A CHICKEN HOUSE BUILT THERE, AND THE MIND IS A TEMPORARY MATTER.
SOONER OR LATER THAT PROBABLY IS GOING TO BE MINED OUT.
IT WILL LIKELY BE TURNED INTO A FARM OR A PRIVATE PROPERTY SOME SORT.
BUT THE END USE FOR THIS PROPERTY IS AND A FAIRLY INACTIVE SITE, THERE WILL BE ESTIMATION FOR SOME PERIOD OF TIME.
BUT IT'S IT'S DIFFERENT THAN OTHER USES THAT COULD BE THERE FOREVER.
THAT'S ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE TESTIFIED TO IS THAT WITH LESS FARMING THERE'S LESS DISTURBANCE ON THE GROUND.
AFTER SOME POINT IN TIME, THE PROPERTY GOES TO REST AND THOSE PROPERTIES TO GET A BENEFIT. MIGHT NOT BE.
>> DID THAT CLEAR UP FOR YOU WHAT YOU NEEDED TO HEAR?
>> WELL, SO I AGREE WITH YOU, BUT I UNDERSTOOD IT.
BUT WHEN I GO IN AND LOOKED AT, WE HAD LOTS ALONG THE BRAD PROPERTY, ONE ON CHERRY LANE, AND THERE WERE LOTS THAT WENT IN AND AROUND THE EDGE OF IT AND THEY SOLD IT FOR PRICES EQUAL TO OR EVEN SLIGHTLY HIGHER A LARGER.
DOWN THE ROAD AND BACK IN ON THE OTHER SIDE GOING DOWN CHERRY LANE TOWARDS GO HEADING DOWN WAY.
LET ME JUST SAY OUR PROPERTIES THAT WITH OVER M ROAD,
[01:50:08]
HOUSES ALL THE TRUCKS GOING BY.YOU DON'T HAVE THE TRUCKS GOING BY TURNING ON TO 16. SO YOU DON'T HAVE THAT.
THE HOUSE THAT SITS ALONGSIDE OF PUT SCREEN TRUCK TO BLOCK THE WIND AND PRETTY FEELS.
BUT THE TRUCK IT'S NOT NECESSARILY.
>> HEY, I'M GOING TO APPRECIATE YOU I WANT THE OPPOSITION TO HAVE A CHANCE TO TALK.
>> SO THE NEXT PERSON THAT WANTS TO COME UP.
>> WHOEVER WANTS TO COME UP NEXT? STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS.
>> CAN YOU SHOW US ON THAT MAP WHERE IT'S AT?
>> THIS SECTION HERE. ONE. YOU SAY THAT WHEN THIS IS PLAYED OUT IN 20 OR 25 YEARS, THAT THIS PROPERTY IS GOING TO BE TURNED INTO FARM LANE? WHAT'S THE DEPTH OF EXCAVATION? HOW DEEP ARE YOU GOING TO GO? ARE WE TALKING ABOUT BRINGING IN FILL DIRT TO FILL THAT TURNED INTO A FARM OR IS THIS GOING TO BE RICE PATTY? YOU'RE GOING TO PLANT DOWN ON THE BOTTOM WHERE WATER IS GOING TO COLLECT OR.
WHAT MY THOUGHT IS THAT'S WHAT THIS GENTLEMAN SAID, IS IT WITH ME.
MY THOUGHT OF THE FARM IS IS A PRIVATE HOLDING BY AN INDIVIDUAL FOR A HORSE FARM OR FOR A PRIVATE FARM FOR FISH PONDS, ET CETERA.
NOT NECESSARILY ROAD-CROSS AGRICULTURE.
IT'S THIS IS JUST APPLY A PRIVATE CODING FOR PERSONAL USE RATHER THAN SO.
>> IT'S NOT GOING TO BE A DEVELOPMENT WHERE YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE A WHOLE BUNCH OF HOUSES BEHIND YOU.
IT COULD BE SOME FORM OF AGRICULTURE THAT'S ABILITY.
>> MR. BREEDING WOULD HAVE TO AVERAGE.
>> SO WHEN YOU'RE IT'S GOING TO BE IT'LL BE A POND.
NOW, THERE IS AT LEAST 2,200 FEET NOW OF UNDISTURBED PROPERTY BETWEEN YOUR PROPERTY LINE.
ARE YOU INTENDING TO COME UP TO YOUR 75-FOOT SETBACK THERE OR IS IT ONLY THIS PROPERTY AT THE FRONT? IS THAT BARRIER BETWEEN YOU AND IS IT GOING TO REMAIN EXACTLY THE WAY IT IS NOW OR ARE YOU ALSO INTENDING TO TAKE THAT END OF FRONT BARRIER? EXACTLY THE WAY IT IS NOW.
>> WE'RE TALKING ABOUT BETWEEN YOU AND PROPERTY.
>> CAN YOU POINT TO IT ON THAT MATT?
>> YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THE 75-FOOT WINDSCREEN OR BUFFER THAT YOU HAVE.
IT'S MORE THAN 75 FEET FOR THE AREA.
NO THAT WAS CLEAR-CUT A FEW YEARS AGO.
>> THE ACTUAL SO YOU'RE TELLING ME THAT SINCE THE LAST TIME I WENT BACK THERE FOR A LOOK THAT YOU MOVED IN TO THAT 75-FOOT SPOT.
BECAUSE IT SEEMED TO ME THERE WAS A LOT MORE THAN 75 FEET BETWEEN MY PROPERTY LINE AND WHERE YOU WERE WORKING.
SO YOU'RE SAYING THAT YOU'VE ALREADY MOVED YOUR EXCAVATION OVER TO THAT 75-FOOT?
>> YOU GET CLEAR BACK TO THE 75-FOOT.
>> THEY'RE TRYING TO SAY IS CURRENTLY THERE'S NO EXCAVATION BEHIND YOUR PROPERTY, CORRECT? NOT WITHIN 200 FEET.
[01:55:01]
>> RICK IS SAYING THAT IT'S WITHIN 75 FOOT OF OUR ACTUAL OF OUR PROPERTY.
I REALIZE THAT THERE IS A 75-FOOT.
>> BECAUSE I HAD AN ISSUE WITH WHERE HE SAYS THE PROPERTY LINE IS AND WHERE I KNOW IT IS.
I HAVEN'T ADDRESSED THAT WE'RE GOING TO.
>> OKAY. HOW LONG HAVE YOU LIVED AT YOUR PROPERTY?
>> I WOULD ADVISE YOU TO CONSIDER HAVING A SURVEY DONE.
TO IDENTIFY WHERE THAT IS IF YOU'RE CONCERNED.
>> THAT IS THE PROPERTY WAS ORIGINALLY SURVEYED BY MCCRO.
OKAY. RICK USES MCCRON QUITE A BIT.
BECAUSE I TALKED TO THE GUYS WHEN THEY WERE BACK HERE SURVEY.
I TALKED TO THEM WHEN THEY WERE BACK THERE.
>> WELL, WE'RE NOT HERE TO HAVE A DEBATE ABOUT PROPERTY LINES.
WE GOT TO STICK TO THE AGENDA.
>> RICK YOU HAVE NOT EXCAVATED THAT 75 FOOT SETBACK YET? NO ON OUR PROPER.
OKAY. THAT'S THAT'S WHAT I WAS TRYING TO ESTABLISH IS WAY.
OKAY. ARE YOUR INTENTIONS WITH THIS EXPANSION TO MOVE TO THAT 75 FOOT SETBACK OR ARE YOU JUST MOVING FORWARD TOWARDS ARM?
>> WE ARE CURRENTLY PERMITTED WITHIN 75 FEET BEHIND YOUR PROPERTY.
>> I UNDERSTAND. SO YOU ARE WHEN YOU DO THIS EXPANSION, YOU'RE GOING TO TAKE THAT AND YOU'RE GOING TO MOVE FOR FOUR. THAT WAS CLARIFICATION.
JUST STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS WHEN YOU COME UP.
>> SO I'VE GOT TO MENTION THIS.
>> WHAT WAS YOUR NAME AGAIN, SIR?
>> THIS ANALYSIS OF WHETHER OR NOT PROPERTY VALUES DROP WITH SOMETHING LIKE THIS DIRECTLY NEXT TO YOU.
I NEED TO APPEAL TO THE FACT THAT YOU ARE HUMAN AND SMART.
YOU CAN UNDERSTAND THAT IF I PUT THAT NEXT TO YOUR HOME, IF I SOMEHOW BOUGHT IN A RESIDENTIAL SECTION 150 ACRES, AND I PUT THAT THERE, THAT THE VALUES FOR A LONG PERIOD OF TIME, WOULD GO DOWN.
>> NO, THAT HASN'T BEEN PROVEN.
>> SO IT HASN'T BEEN PROVEN THE OTHER WAY.
>> IT HASN'T BEEN PROVEN AT ALL.
>> CAN I ASK YOU QUESTIONS. WHEN DID YOU BUY YOUR PROPERTY? END OF 16.
WAS THERE A MINE NEXT TO YOU WHEN AND YOU SAW IT.
>> YOU BOUGHT ANYWAY. THAT'S WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO SAY. THAT HAPPENS.
AN ABSOLUTE YEAR BEFORE I EVEN FOUND AN AMOUNT OF PROPERTY WITH THIS ACREAGE WITHIN THAT I COULD GET TO.
THERE ARE OTHER THINGS FIGHTING HERE AS TO WHY I BOUGHT THAT PROPERTY.
WOULD I HAVE BOUGHT MY PROPERTY WITH THIS NEXT OR WITH THIS NOT THERE? ABSOLUTELY. WOULD I PROBABLY PAID MORE FOR IT? ABSOLUTELY. THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT.
>> BUT YOU STILL BOUGHT THERE IS MY POINT AND YOU BOUGHT THERE KNOWINGLY.
>> I'M NOT MAKING A POINT. HE MADE A POINT THAT HE FEELS THAT THIS IS SOMEHOW INDICATIVE OF THIS, NOT AFFECTING THIS. DO YOU UNDERSTAND?
>> I DO. BUT APPRAISALS PROVE THAT.
PEOPLE WILL BUY AND PEOPLE GET APPRAISALS AND THAT PROPERTY DIDN'T GO DOWN IN VALUE.
>> YOU CAN ASK HIM ONE QUESTION.
>> WHEN THE STATE OF MARYLAND SWITCHED OUT HOW APPRAISALS WERE DONE FAIRLY RECENTLY, CORRECT? DID IT NOT GO TO A ROTATING SYSTEM FROM A SITUATION WHERE PEOPLE WHO WANTED TO USE YOU ALL THE TIME, THEY HAD TO GO INTO A POOL AND PULL NUMBERS AND YOU GOT MATCHED UP WITH SOME OF? OKAY. DID SOMETHING THAT NOT HAPPEN?
>> WHAT IS THAT? I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT THE RELEVANCE OF THAT IS?
>> THE ATTORNEY GENERAL OF NEW YORK STATE SUED FANNIE MAE AND FREDDIE MAC AND SAID THAT THEY WERE DOING THE PEOPLE GO INTO A APPRAISALS, WORK FOR PEOPLE AND COME UP WITH FALSE NUMBERS.
CORRECT. HE AND THEY CREATED THE HBCC AND THEY STARTED DOING INDEPENDENT HIRING OF PEOPLE.
SO THEY STARTED MAKING THEM HIRE AND A MIDDLE PERSON A LOT OF CASES THEY GOT 30 OR 40 APPRAISAL.
[02:00:04]
BUT FOR ME, I WORK FOR THE COUNT FOR THE STATE PROPERTY OWNER I WORK FOR WHOEVER I'M SAYING THE STATEMENT WAS MADE THAT APPRAISALS WHAT A PROPERTY IS WORTH, AND THAT IS NOT TRUE.>> WE HAD TO CHANGE THE SYSTEM.
>> THAT HAS NO BEARING ON WHAT HE.
>> WOULD HAVE A BEARING FOR YOU. I UNDERSTAND.
>> BUT I'M NOT WORRIED ABOUT BY MY PROPERTY BECAUSE I'M NOT WORRIED ABOUT THAT AFFECTING MY PROPERTY VALUE AS MUCH BECAUSE I'M NOT LEAVING.
I'M GOING TO STICK TO 25 YEARS OUT. THAT'S FINE.
I DO AGREE WITH THE ASSESSMENT THAT OVER A LONG PERIOD OF TIME, THERE IS GOING TO WATER WILL SEEK ITS OWN LEVEL.
HOWEVER, I DO THINK THE PEOPLE UP HERE AT THE END OF P LIQUOR ARE IN AN ABSOLUTELY DIFFERENT SITUATION.
TELLING THAT GENTLEMAN TO WAIT IT OUT FOR 25 YEARS UNTIL THINGS GET GOOD IS ABSOLUTELY NOT REASONABLE.
I JUST DON'T THINK YOU CAN MAKE THAT STATEMENT THAT THAT IS NOT IMPACTING THE VALUE OF HIS HOME.
>> BUT THE THING IS, THIS PIT WAS FROM THE 50S AND 60S.
I'M SURE EVERY ONE OF YOU BOUGHT NEXT TO A PIT.
>> WE'VE HAD SO MANY PITS COME THROUGH HERE.
WE'VE NEVER SEEN ONE PROPERTY VALUE DEPRECIATE. NEVER.
>> VALUES DON'T GO DOWN. THEY JUST DON'T.
>> IT RARELY HAPPENS, BUT NOT SPECIFICALLY RELATED TO MINING.
WE APPRECIATE YOU, WHAT YOU'VE HAD TO SAY AND WE NEED TO MOVE ON.
>> ONE MORE QUESTION. MY COURSE HERE AND WHAT I REALLY WANT IS NOTHING MORE THAN TO ACTUALLY, HOPEFULLY, MEMORIALIZE WHAT YOU SAID IN THE MEETING THE OTHER DAY.
THIS IS IT. WE'RE DONE, BUT I'M NOT EXTENDING ANYMORE.
WE'RE NOT GOING ANYWHERE ELSE.
MY HOPE AND ONE OF THE THINGS IS I STICK THIS OUT FOR 27 YEARS IS WE ACTUALLY GET TO THE END OF WHAT WE WERE LOOKING FOR.
I'M NOT STUCK ON ASKING SPECIFICALLY A HOUSE OR A FARM.
IF IT'S SOME OPEN BUCOLIC SPACE, I'M GOOD WITH THAT.
I WAS HOPING THAT YOU MIGHT BE GOOD ENOUGH.
THIS THING'S BEEN GOING ON SINCE 1950S IN MY CASE.
I WAS LIKE, THIS IS GOING ON 90 YEARS NOW, BY THE TIME WE GET DONE AND YOU GET EVERYTHING OUT OF IT.
IS IT NOT WORTH TO EVEN BE LIKE, LOOK, I PUT A COMPLETE RECLAMATION PLAN TOGETHER IF THIS IS WHAT IT'S GOING TO BE.
THAT'S WHAT I'M REALLY HOPING FOR.
NOTHING MORE, BUT IT SOUNDED LIKE THAT ECHOED SOMETHING THE OTHER DAY.
I'M JUST WORRIED THAT THINGS CHANGE OVER DISTANCES IN TIME.
SOMETHING GOES ON IN THE FAMILY, YOU GUYS SET WHOEVER TAKES ON THE BUSINESS.
I'VE HAD ZERO ISSUES WITH RICK, BY THE WAY.
A RECLAMATION PLAN IS PART OF MINING APPROVAL.
YOU HAVE TO HAVE A RECLAMATION PLAN.
I DON'T KNOW SPECIFICALLY WHAT RICK SAYS, BUT THERE IS A PLAN.
I'M SURE THAT YOU CAN GET IT FROM THE PUBLIC INFORMATION.
>> I TRIED, BUT AT A MINIMUM OF 10 DAYS, WE HAD LESS THAN 10 BUSINESS DAYS TO GET THIS DONE, AND THEN WE'RE TOLD TO BE CONCISE WHEN YOU GUYS GOT TO GET UP AND GIVE AN ENTIRE SPEECH.
>> MY NEXT POINT IS THAT THERE'S RECLAMATION BOND SAID THAT EVERYBODY HAS TO PAY SO TO BE SURE THAT IT GETS DONE.
IF YOU DON'T DO IT, THAT BOND IS USED TO FIX IT.
>> THAT'S OUR PLACE, AND READY TO GO.
WELL, THAT'S SOMETHING YOU'LL HAVE TO ADDRESS TO MR. BREEDY.
>> BUT WE CAN'T DEAL WITH THAT TONIGHT. WE'VE GOT OTHER THINGS TO DEAL WITH.
>> YOU CAN GO TO THE COUNTY AND ASK THEM.
>> MR. BREEDY, I WOULD LOVE TO [INAUDIBLE] I DON'T HAVE ANY ISSUES WITH THE PERSON [INAUDIBLE] I WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT YOU'RE INVOLVED.
>> WE STILL NEED TO WRAP IT UP.
>> YEAH. WE NEED TO MOVE ON TO THE NEXT PERSON.
>> YOU CAN GET IT THROUGH THE MINING COMMUNITY.
I JUST HAVE AN ISSUE [INAUDIBLE] I NEED MORE TIME THAN WHAT'S BEEN GIVEN TO EVEN UNDERSTAND [INAUDIBLE].
>> WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO CUT YOU OFF.
I'M GOING TO HAVE TO GO TO THE NEXT PERSON.
WHO WANTS TO COME UP NEXT? STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS IN THE MICROPHONE WHEN YOU COME UP.
>> MY NAME IS JESSE MOSMAN [PHONETIC].
I LIVE AT 25,000, PILAKRA (PH) ROAD.
>> IS IT ON THAT MAP ANYWHERE? CAN YOU SHOW US?
[02:05:01]
>> YEAH. RIGHT OVER THERE. I'LL JUST SAY, FIRST, THIS IS NOT AN INDUSTRIAL AREA.
I THINK THAT IF WE WERE TO PULL ALL THE HOMEOWNERS WHO LIVED WITHIN REASONABLE PROXIMITY OF THE MINE, I DOUBT ANY OF THEM WOULD BE THRILLED ABOUT SEEING A LARGE EXPANSION OF SAID MINE.
THIS IS NOT AN INDUSTRIAL AREA.
THIS IS ADJACENT TO A SENSITIVE ENVIRONMENTAL AREA.
IT'S RIGHT BY WATTS CREEK, WHICH FLOWS DOWN TO MARNE STATE PARK, IT'S A MAJOR ATTRACTION, VERY HEALTHY ECOSYSTEM.
THE THING ABOUT SEDIMENT PONDS IS THAT THEY WORK GREAT UNDER NORMAL CONDITIONS, BUT WEATHER IS GETTING MORE EXTREME, 25 YEAR STORMS ARE NOT AS UNCOMMON AS THEY USED TO BE.
WITH ADEQUATE RAINFALL, THEY HAVE FLOODS.
THEY'RE NOT MADE FOR HIGH VOLUME EVENTS, AND THIS HAS PLAYED OUT MANY TIMES IN OTHER PARTS OF THE COUNTRY.
I WOULD REALLY HATE TO SEE BEAUTIFUL ECOSYSTEM AS WATTS CREEK, GREAT FISHING, [INAUDIBLE], EVERYTHING LIKE THAT SO SEVERELY IMPACTED BY RUNOFF.
THEN I GUESS IN ADDITION TO THAT, AS FAR AS DUST CONTROL ABATEMENT, IF I UNDERSTAND IT CORRECTLY, THAT REQUIRES THE USE OF MILLIONS OF GALLONS OF WATER.
WITH REGARDS TO THE AQUIFER, WHICH WE ALL SHARE AND IS ALSO USED FOR AGRICULTURAL PURPOSES, IT WOULD BE NICE TO KNOW THAT THIS IS GOING TO GOOD USE.
I'M NOT SURE HOW MUCH WATER IS BEING USED FOR DUST ABATEMENT, BUT I HAVE TO GUESS THAT MILLIONS OF GALLONS IS VERY NON-NEGLIGIBLE.
>> CAN YOU ADDRESS THAT AT ALL, RICK, HOW MUCH WATER OR WHERE YOU'RE USING IT FROM?
>> WHERE YOU'RE GETTING IT FROM.
>> YOU'RE USING THE AQUIFER THAT'S COMING FROM THE MINING STUFF? YOU'RE NOT PULLING FROM ANY OTHER SOURCE, YOU'RE USING WHAT'S THERE. OKAY.
>> IT ALL DEPENDS ON THE DRY CONDITIONS MARYLAND USES LIKE 1,000 GALLONS PER DAY.
>> I GUESS FINAL THING BEING THAT IF APPROVED, REQUEST AN ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACT REVIEW PRIOR TO THE EXPANSION.
>> THAT WAS ALREADY APPROVED THROUGH THE MDE. CAN YOU ADD TO THAT, MATT?
>> MDE LOOKS AT ALL THE ENVIRONMENTAL FACTORS THAT ARE REQUIRED TO BE ENFORCED AS PART OF THE MDE SURFACE MINING PERMIT.
THAT INCLUDES DUST CONTROL, THAT INCLUDES ANY OUTFALLS, SO THAT'S WATER, AIR.
ALL THAT'S PART OF THE PERMIT ITSELF.
THEY SAID THEY DO INSPECTIONS ANNUALLY.
THEY'RE ALL REQUIRED TO COMPLY.
>> LET ME ASK, WITH REGARDS TO THE PROXIMITY TO WATTS CREEK AND THE SEVENTH FLOOR, THAT'S NOT A CONCERN?
>> IT'S GRANDFATHERED BECAUSE OF THE FACT THAT MINING WAS DONE WELL BEFORE.
>> THAT WAS DONE BEFORE CRITICAL AREA.
>> PRIOR TO CRITICAL AIR REGULATION.
>> WHERE HE'S GETTING READY TO EXPAND IS OUT NEAR THE ROAD AND AWAY FROM, SO IT'S FURTHER FROM WATTS CREEK, SO IT SHOULDN'T HAVE ANY FURTHER IMPACT ON WATTS CREEK, I THINK, IS THE POINT.
>> IT'S NOT GOING TO HAVE AN IMPACT ON WATTS CREEK.
>> THANK YOU. WHO WANTS TO COME UP NEXT?
>> IS THERE ANYBODY ELSE THAT WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK? DO YOU WANT TO HAVE ANY CLOSING BEFORE WE GO INTO DELIBERATION?
>> WE MIGHT STILL HAVE QUESTIONS ANYWAY.
>> FIRST OF ALL, I'D LIKE TO REVIEW THE CRITERIA FOR APPROVAL.
WE HAVE A WRITTEN APPLICATION, AND AS WHAT WE DID, THERE WAS ONE OF THE EXHIBITS.
THERE HAS TO BE DULY ADVERTISED PUBLIC HEARING.
IT WAS DULY ADVERTISED FOR AT LEAST TWO WEEKS.
THEN WE HAVE TO LOOK AT THE CRITERIA.
FIRST OF ALL, IS THERE GOING TO BE ANY DANGER TO PUBLIC HEALTH SAFETY OR GENERAL WELFARE? RICK TESTIFIED THAT HE HASN'T HAD THE NEED TO CALL THE POLICE IF THE PROPERTY IS DATED.
IF THERE WERE TRESPASSERS, LIKE, THERE WAS ONE YEARS AGO, HE SAID.
AS FAR AS BEING SAFE AND GENERAL WELFARE, I THINK WE QUALIFY.
WITH RESPECT TO THE PEACEFUL USE AND ENJOYMENT OF OTHER PROPERTIES IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD, AND I THINK IT WAS INTERESTING THAT MR. HEFNER SAID REALLY DIDN'T HAVE ANY PROBLEM WITH THE WAY RICK WAS RUNNING THE MINE, AND I CAN UNDERSTAND THAT PROPERTY OWNERS WHO ARE ADJOINING THE PROPERTY, BUT I THINK IF YOU LOOK AT THE AREA THAT IS PROPOSED FOR EXPANSION,
[02:10:05]
I THINK IT'S CLOSER TO 16 THAN THE GENTLEMAN IN THE BACK WHO WAS CONCERNED ABOUT WHETHER RICK WAS GOING TO BE MINING WITHIN 200 FEET OF HIS PROPERTY.IT SHOULDN'T AFFECT HIS PROPERTY.
I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS THAT YOU HAVE TO CONSIDER IS THE FACT THAT SURFACE MINING HAS BEEN PERMITTED IN THE R DISTRICT IN THIS COUNTY SINCE ZONING WAS BROUGHT IN.
SOMEBODY SAYS IT'S NOT AN INDUSTRIAL AREA.
NO, IT'S NOT AN INDUSTRIAL AREA, BUT THIS PERMITTED USE HAS BEEN DEEMED TO BE COMPATIBLE WITH RESIDENTIAL USES.
THAT'S THE LAW. YOU MAY NOT BELIEVE IT, BUT IT'S THE LAW.
I THINK IF YOU LOOK AT THE APPRAISAL TESTIMONY THAT WAS GIVEN BY MR. TURNER, YOU CAN SEE THAT, REALLY, IT IS COMPATIBLE BECAUSE THERE'S NO DIFFERENCE IN RIGHTS BETWEEN A PROPERTY NEAR A MINE AND A PROPERTY FURTHER AWAY FROM A MINE.
NORMAL AND ORDERLY DEVELOPMENT OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD.
WELL, THERE HAVE BEEN PROPERTIES PURCHASED ALONG HERE, ACROSS THE STREET, NEXT TO RICK ON THE EAST, ON THE NORTH SIDE, AND THOSE HAVE ALL BEEN DONE, SO IT HASN'T BEEN IMPEDING THAT DEVELOPMENT VERY MUCH.
WE HAVE NO SCHOOL CHILDREN, SO IT'S NOT GOING TO OVERBURDEN OUR SCHOOLS.
IT'S A STATE ROAD, NOT A COUNTY ROAD, SO WE'RE NOT GOING TO HAVE PROBLEMS WITH COUNTY INFRASTRUCTURE BEING IMPACTED. WATER AND SEWER.
THERE'S ONLY ONE BUILDING ON SITE.
FIRE PROTECTION SHOULD NOT BE A MAJOR CONCERN.
RICK HASN'T HAD THE NEED TO CALL THE POLICE, SO POLICE PROTECTION SHOULDN'T BE A CONCERN.
THAT IS REALLY SOMETHING THAT SHOULD NOT IMPEDE A GRANT.
WITH RESPECT TO EVERYTHING ELSE, THE ZONING ORDINANCE WAS CREATED TO STABILIZE LAND VALUE.
I THINK IT'S DONE A PRETTY GOOD JOB HERE IN THIS COUNTY BECAUSE IF YOU LOOK AT PROPERTIES ADJOINING THIS PROPERTY, THEY'VE BEEN SELLING WELL.
IF YOU LOOK AT PROPERTIES ADJOINING OTHER MINES IN THE COUNTY, THEY'VE BEEN SELLING WELL.
IT CONFORMS TO ALL OF THE REQUIREMENTS THAT ARE LISTED IN THE ZONING ORDINANCE, AND I THINK THAT YOU CAN SEE THAT ON, I THINK IT'S G103 OF SEAN'S PLAN, THAT HAS ALL THE LIST OF EVERYTHING THAT IS REQUIRED THAT WE'RE REQUIRED TO SHOW [INAUDIBLE] 27, WHATEVER IT IS NOW.
AS FAR AS WATER QUALITY IS CONCERNED, WE ALREADY HAVE IN PLACE AND WILL CONTINUE TO HAVE IN PLACE A MONITORING SYSTEM TO PROTECT THE WATER QUALITY OF DISCHARGE THAT COULD REACH THE WATTS CREEK.
THIS MINE HAS BEEN HERE FOR 60 YEARS, 70 YEARS NOW, AND WATTS CREEK IS STILL BEAUTIFUL.
IT'S STILL AN ECOLOGICAL BENEFIT TO THE COUNTY, AND I DON'T SEE THAT CONTINUING SOMETHING THAT HAS BEEN A BENEFIT IS GOING TO BE A PROBLEM. THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
AT THIS TIME. I GOT TO GIVE THE OPPOSITION A CHANCE TO COME BACK UP.
YOU CAN PICK ONE PERSON TO COME GIVE SOME TESTIMONY.
YOU CAN TAKE A FEW MINUTES BECAUSE I GOT A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS FOR MR. CALLAHAN.
I'LL GIVE YOU A MINUTE IF YOU ALSO WANT TO HAVE SOMEBODY SPEAK FOR YOU.
MR. CALLAHAN, WHAT'S THE MAXIMUM SIZE THIS WHOLE MINE? IS IT OVER 500,000 SQUARE FEET? DO YOU KNOW?
>> IF THIS WAS APPROVED, MR. CALLAHAN, I THINK IS WHAT MR. BUTLER WOULD LIKE TO KNOW.
I BELIEVE IT'S 94 PLUS ACRES THAT WOULD BE TOTALLY ENCOMPASSED IN THAT.
>> DO YOU THINK IT'S OVER 500,000?
>> BUT I KNOW THE SECTION YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT, AND I DON'T THINK IT APPLIES
[02:15:01]
TO THE SQUARE FOOTAGE OF THE FARM, SO IT'D JUST BE 95*43,560.THAT'S FOR [INAUDIBLE] IN SQUARE FEET.
>> IT'S PROBABLY NOT APPLICABLE.
IT DOESN'T APPLY BECAUSE OF THE STUFF THAT WAS UNDER GRANDFATHERED?
>> WELL, NO. THAT SECTION OF THE CODE, YOU'RE LOOKING AT THE LANDS TABLE AND THEN YOU'RE LOOKING AT THE INDUSTRIAL USE.
>> CAN'T SIZE IT. IT'S NOT ABOUT THE PLANT.
>> CAN YOU WEIGH IN ON THAT, PATRICK?
>> THIS WAS WHAT KATHERINE HAD GIVEN US FOR THE MINERAL EXTRACTION.
>> THE MAXIMUM ALLOWED PLANT SIZE IS GOING TO BE 500,000 SQUARE AS A SPECIAL USE EXCEPTION OPERATED BY THE BOARD.
>> BUT PLANT MEANING A STRUCTURE TYPE THING, NOT ACTUAL PROPERTY TYPE.
>> BASICALLY, THE SCREENING OPERATION WOULD BE PART OF THAT PLAN.
>> THE SCREENING OPERATION FITS ON A [INAUDIBLE].
>> WE DON'T HAVE EMPLOYEES, NOT THAT THAT REALLY APPLIES.
>> YOU DO HAVE EMPLOYEES ON SITE, RIGHT, RICK?
>> WE'RE LOOKING AT 175-170, RIGHT?
>> THAT'S ALL THE QUESTIONS I HAVE.
I NEED TO LET THEM READ OUT MORE QUESTIONS.
>> ACTUALLY, I THINK MAYBE TO HELP CLARIFY SOMETHING, I DO, AND WHILE YOU'RE UP HERE, SEAN.
IN MAP V102, ANY CHANCE YOU PUT THAT UP, KATHERINE?
>> I DO NOT KNOW. IT'S NOT STAMPED ONLINE.
ACTUALLY, THAT'S FINE RIGHT THERE.
>> YES. THAT'S FINE RIGHT THERE.
BECAUSE I THINK THERE WAS SOME CONCERN. I'M GOING TO GO TO THE BOARD.
THIS IS OUR EXPANSION AREA, BUT I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT THAT.
THIS AREA IS BASICALLY THROUGH HERE, THAT HAS NOT BEEN MINED YET, BUT THAT'S ALREADY PERMITTED TO BE MINED, CORRECT?
>> LEFT HAND. THAT HAS ALREADY BEEN PERMITTED SOME YEARS AGO? YOU JUST HAVE NOT GOT INTO DIGGING INTO THAT AREA TOTALLY YET.
>> I DON'T KNOW. I GOT THE FEELING THAT YOU WERE WONDERING IF THIS WAS PART OF THIS, BUT THIS WAS ALREADY DONE A FEW YEARS AGO.
>> IT'S ALREADY BEEN APPROVED.
>> THIS IS AN ACTUAL PART OF THIS FACTOR TONIGHT.
>> WE HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO OPPOSE THAT.
>> I HAD WRITTEN A RESPONSE TO THAT AND I HAD REFERENCE TO THE [INAUDIBLE] REPORT AND THE TESTING INFORMATION FROM THE LETTER FROM THE TESTING AUTHORITY.
>> WHERE IT'S FACTORED TO BE EXHIBIT 17.
>> ARE WE INCLUDING THIS MDE INSPECTION REPORT SEPARATELY FROM THE LETTER OR ARE YOU DOING IT TOGETHER?
>> ALL IS ONE EXHIBIT; EXHIBIT 17.
>> WE'RE GOING TO REFER TO COMMUNITY, THE BOARD.
>> WE'RE GOING TO CALL THAT EXHIBIT 17?
>> CAN YOU ELABORATE ON THIS FOR US AT ALL SEAN? AFTER YOUR REVIEW, CAN YOU ADDRESS THE PUBLIC AND US WITH WHAT THE POINT OF IT IS OR WHAT IT SPECIFIES?
>> [LAUGHTER] WELL, I WASN'T SURE.
>> IT'S IN COMPLIANCE, IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE SAYING?
>> I'M NOT SURE THAT THEY UNDERSTAND [INAUDIBLE].
>> GO BACK TO THE SETBACK, THE 200-FOOT SETBACK.
[02:20:02]
I CAN REMEMBER SITTING IN THIS VERY ROOM WITH THE PLANNING COMMISSION FOR NINE MONTHS, EVERY MONTH, WHILE WE WENT THROUGH THE CHANGE IN THE ORDINANCE.THAT 200-FOOT SETBACK WAS PUT IN THERE FOR NEW CONSTRUCTION, NEW PROJECTS THAT WEREN'T ALREADY EXISTING.
THERE WERE ALREADY A NUMBER OF EXISTING MINES IN THE COUNTY AND THE QUESTION WAS, SHOULD THEY HAVE TO GO BACK AND JUMP THROUGH THE SAME HOOPS WHEN THEY'VE ALREADY BEEN APPROVED AND WERE ALREADY OPERATING AND THE ANSWER WAS NO.
THAT'S WHY THE WAIVER PROVISION IS IN THERE.
THE WAIVER PROVISION WAS PUT IN SO THAT THE BOARD COULD DETERMINE WHETHER THIS WAS A [OVERLAPPING] NECESSARY AND PREEXISTING MINE AND WHETHER OR NOT IT COULD HAVE ADVERSELY AFFECTED THE NEIGHBORS ANY MORE THAN WHAT WOULD HAVE ALREADY BEEN THERE.
THERE'S BEEN A 75-FOOT BUFFER ON THIS PROPERTY SINCE 2005.
IT'S GOING TO GET BETTER AS TIME GOES ON, NOT WORSE.
I THINK THAT THIS IS PROBABLY THE MOST APPROPRIATE CASE I'M AWARE OF FOR THE USE OF THE WAIVERS FOR THIS.
>> THANK YOU, ANN. HAVE YOU HAD AN OPPORTUNITY TO PULL TOGETHER IF THERE'S ANYBODY WHO WOULD LIKE TO MAKE A FINAL APPEAL ON THE BEHALF OF THE PUBLIC?
>> WELL, I DID HAVE ONE QUESTION, IF I MAY.
>> SEEING THAT WE'RE EXPANDING OUT TOWARDS THE ROAD, AND I UNDERSTAND EVERYBODY WITH 75 AND THEN 200, MY QUESTION IS, WHERE WOULD THAT SCREEN DECK BE AS WE'RE GETTING CLOSER TO THE BACKSIDE OF MY PROPERTY? BECAUSE RIGHT NOW, THERE'S NOTHING BUT TREES.
TREES DON'T CARE ABOUT SOUND, THE HOUSES DO, SO WHERE WOULD THAT SCREEN DECK BE IN ACCORDANCE TO MY LAND?
>> IT'S IN THE GROUND, SO IT WOULD NOT BE AT THE SURFACE, SO THAT WOULD BECOME 10-15 FEET OF DEPTH THAT'S WHERE THE SCREEN IS.
>> BUT THAT COULD BE RIGHT ON THE 75-FOOT LINE, IT COULD BE 200 FEET AWAY.
>> IT'S LIKELY THAT IT'S GOING TO BE IN THE CENTER.
>> CAN YOU SHOW US, PERHAPS, RICK, WHERE YOU THINK IT MIGHT BE? [OVERLAPPING]
>> I COULD SHOULD SHOW YOU WHERE IT IS NOW.
>> OKAY. MAYBE YOU COULD CLARIFY THAT JUST SO THAT THEY HAVE AN UNDERSTANDING WHERE IT'S CURRENTLY.
>> WELL, IT STARTS FROM HERE AND IT MOVES FROM HERE TO HERE.
>> YOU DON'T EXPECT THAT TO CHANGE, RICK?
>> I DON'T, NO. IT CAN BUT ALL I CAN TELL YOU GUYS IS I THINK I'VE DONE A GOOD [INAUDIBLE] AND I WILL CERTAINLY CONTINUE TO DO SO.
WITH THE PIPE OPERATION WE HAVE, WE'RE GOING TO CONTINUE TO DO IT BUT IT'S DUSTY, IT'S NOISY BUT WE DO OUR BEST.
>> I'VE NEVER PERSONALLY HAD AN ISSUE.
I'VE NEVER EVEN MET YOU IN THE 27 YEARS THAT I'VE LIVED ON THIS PROPERTY SO I CAN'T SAY ANYTHING NEGATIVE PER SE ABOUT YOU.
BUT JUST OUT OF YOUR OWN MIND, YOU SAID IT'S NOISY AND IT'S DUSTY.
WELL, IF THAT NOISE GETS CLOSER AND CLOSER TO MY HOUSE, HOW DOES THAT NOT AFFECT THE VALUE OF MY PROPERTY?
>> IF AN APPRAISER CAME TO THE PROPERTY ON A SPECIFIC DAY AS THAT MACHINE OR MACHINERY WAS RUNNING, WOULD THAT THEN AFFECT THEM VERSUS A DAY THAT THE MACHINERY IS NOT RUNNING?
>> THE NOISE AND THE DUST IS CONTAINED AT THE BOTTOM.
I DOUBT YOU RARELY HEAR ANYTHING.
>> I HEAR A LOT OF BACKUP ALARMS AND I HEAR A LOT OF TRACKS ON MACHINES MOVING THE EQUIPMENT.
>> BUT THE 75-FOOT BUFFER WITH THE TREES AS IT CONTINUES TO GET LARGER AND FILL OUT, IT'S GOING TO ONLY PROVIDE YOU WITH A LITTLE BIT MORE BARRIER OF NOISE AND DUST AND THINGS OF THAT NATURE.
IF THERE'S ANY PLACES THAT YOU FEEL ARE NOT PROPERLY SCREENED OR NEED ADJUSTMENT, NOW IS YOUR TIME TO POINT THAT OUT BECAUSE WE COULD CERTAINLY ASK FOR MORE BUFFER IF THAT'S AN ISSUE OR A CONCERN.
THAT MIGHT BE ONE WAY TO MITIGATE SOME OF YOUR CONCERNS, IS MY POINT.
>> MY CONCERN WAS THAT THAT 200-FOOT LINE, APPARENTLY, I'M IN OPPOSITION OF COMING CLOSER THAN THE 200-FOOT LINE ON THAT NEW PIECE THAT WAS IN QUESTION OF.
[02:25:01]
THE OLD PIECE THAT WAS ALREADY PRE-APPROVED, I UNDERSTAND THAT.BUT THAT NEW PIECE COMING WITHIN THAT 200-FOOT LINE WOULD BE MY OPPOSITION BECAUSE THAT EXTRA LINEAR FOOTAGE WOULD REDUCE THE NOISE, WOULD REDUCE THE POSSIBILITY OF THERE EVER BEING A REDUCTION OF LAND PRICES AT SOME POINT.
LIKE I SAID, IT'S VERY SUBJECTIVE WHEN SOMEBODY COMES OUT TO VALUE YOUR LAND.
IF THERE'S NO NOISES GOING ON ONE DAY, MAYBE THAT HAS A DIFFERENCE OF MACHINERY RUNNING 75-FOOT BEHIND YOUR PROPERTY LINE WHEN THEY COME OUT TO.
>> HONESTLY, I FEEL LIKE THE BOTTOM LINE IS JUST THE RECORDS SHOW WHEN PEOPLE ARE BUYING A HOUSE AND SELLING A HOUSE AND BUYING A HOUSE AND SELLING A HOUSE, THERE'S BEEN NO EVIDENCE THAT ANY OF THOSE THINGS REALLY FACTOR BECAUSE YOU BOUGHT THERE AND IT WAS GOING ON, AND IT'S GOING TO CONTINUE TO GO ON AND EVERYBODY KNOWS THAT.
>> WHEN I BOUGHT HERE IT WAS 1997 AND IT WAS A LOT FURTHER BACK.
WHEN WE QUESTIONED THE REAL ESTATE AGENT AT THE TIME, AND THEY'RE NOT HERE TO VERIFY, THEY SAID, WELL, THEY'RE SO FAR OFF, YOU'RE NEVER GOING TO SEE THEM.
>> I CAN SPEAK FROM THAT STANDPOINT, AND IT'S A SHAME, BUT REAL ESTATE AGENTS DON'T HAVE THE RIGHT TO SAY THAT BECAUSE WHAT THAT ZONING ALLOWS IS WHAT THE ZONING ALLOWS, AND HE'S ALLOWED TO DO THAT OPERATION THERE. [OVERLAPPING]
>> [INAUDIBLE] 2005 WHEN THEY GOT THEIR EXTENSION AND I NEVER SAW ANYTHING CLOSE OR A TENTH TO THE HOUSE IN THE 2005 VERSION OR I WOULD HAVE BEEN UP HERE AS WELL.
THAT'S IN THE PAST AND NOW WE'RE MOVING ON AND NOW I'M CONCERNED WITH NOW VERSUS 25 YEARS AGO.
>> CAN I CLARIFY SOMETHING? IT SEEMS FOR MOST PEOPLE, THE ISSUE IS WITH NOISE.
I WILL SAY THAT IN OUR ZONING CODE, WE HAVE A NUISANCE CHAPTER 137, WHICH REQUIRES MAXIMUM ALLOWABLE SOUNDS ON ADJACENT LAND USES.
IF RICK'S OPERATION WAS ABOVE THOSE SOUND LEVELS BECAUSE MAYBE THE SCREEN IS TOO CLOSE, HE WOULD HAVE TO MOVE IT.
WE HAVE A DECIBEL READER IN OUR OFFICE, AND AT ANY POINT IN TIME, IF SOMEBODY THINKS THAT THEIR NEIGHBOR IS BEYOND THE ALLOWABLE DECIBEL UNITS FOR THAT LAND USE, WE CAN COME OUT AND WE CAN TEST IT, AND WE STAND AT THE PROPERTY LINE AND MEASURE THAT.
THERE ARE REQUIREMENTS FOR SOUND LEVELS FOR CERTAIN DIFFERENT OPERATIONS AND HOURS OF OPERATION.
>> THANKS FOR POINTING THAT OUT.
>> I'M NOT SURE IF THAT WOULD HELP.
>> THAT'S HELPFUL TO KNOW, BECAUSE I THINK AGAIN, IT'S ALL ABOUT PROTECTING YOUR RIGHTS AS NEIGHBORS TO THE PROPERTY.
>> DOES ANYBODY ELSE WANT TO SPEAK FOR OPPOSITION TO CLOSE IT OUT? I GUESS WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO GO INTO DELIBERATION.
LIKE I SAID BEFORE, WHILE WE'RE UP HERE DELIBERATING, NOBODY ELSE CAN SPEAK UNLESS WE ASK A QUESTION FOR CLARIFICATION. LET'S DO IT.
>> BEFORE YOU DELIBERATE, CAN WE JUST CLARIFY ALL THE EXHIBITS THAT HAVE BEEN ADDED JUST SO WE'RE [OVERLAPPING] CLEAR ON THAT?
>> HONESTLY, WHAT IT REALLY SHOULD BE, IT SHOULD BE ENTERED AS 'APPLICANTS EXHIBITS'.
>> APPLICANTS EXHIBITS. [OVERLAPPING]
>> INSTEAD OF TACKING ONTO THE BOARD EXHIBITS, WE DO THEM AS APPLICANTS EXHIBITS.
I'M JUST GOING TO READ DOWN THE LIST.
APPLICANT EXHIBIT 1 WOULD BE THE PLANNING COMMISSION STAFF REPORT.
APPLICANT EXHIBIT 2 WOULD BE THE PICTURES FROM THE PLANNING COMMISSION PACKAGE FROM THAT SEPTEMBER MEETING.
APPLICANT EXHIBIT 3 WOULD BE THE FITZHUGH TURNER APPRAISAL QUALIFICATIONS.
APPLICANT EXHIBIT 4 WOULD BE THE AERIAL IMAGERY OF THE ADJACENT PROPERTY THAT HAS THE SALE VALUES FROM FITZHUGH TURNER.
EXHIBIT 5 WOULD BE THE LETTER FROM SEAN CALLAHAN.
THIS IS THE RESPONSE TO JESSE MOSMAN'S EXHIBIT, WHICH WAS NOT READ INTO THE RECORD, BY THE WAY, SO WE'RE GOING TO DO THAT NOW.
THAT WAS A THIRD-PARTY EXHIBIT WHICH HE WAS TESTIFYING TO AS HE CAME UP.
WHAT'S THAT LABELED AS? IT'S JUST THIRD-PARTY EXHIBIT 1 LETTER FROM JESSE MOSMAN.
THOSE ARE THE EXHIBITS THAT I WANTED TO CLARIFY.
>> IF WE NEED CLARITY ON ANY OF THAT, WE'LL ASK FOR THAT AGAIN [LAUGHTER] BECAUSE WE MIGHT.
LET'S GO THROUGH JUST A REGULAR SPECIAL USE.
[02:30:10]
A WRITTEN APPLICATION HAS BEEN SUBMITTED.IT WOULD BE SO YES IT WAS EXHIBIT 3?
>> IT WAS DUALLY ADVERTISED PUBLIC THROUGH?
>> THE SAME DATE, OCTOBER THE 2ND AND OCTOBER THE 9TH OF '24.
>> AS IN EXHIBIT 1? [OVERLAPPING]
>> WILL NOT BE DETRIMENTAL TO OR ENDANGER THE PUBLIC HEALTH'S SAFETY OR GENERAL WELFARE.
>> MR. BRADEN TESTIFIED THAT HE'S NOT HAD ISSUES WITH FIRE OR PERSONAL PROPERTY DAMAGE.
ONE TIME, QUITE A FEW YEARS AGO, HE DID HAVE TO CALL THE POLICE FOR A TRESPASSER, SO IF IT DOESN'T PUT ANY EXTRA BURDEN THERE.
>> DO YOU WANT TO ADD ANYTHING TO THAT?
>> I DON'T THINK THAT THERE'S ANY FUTURE PROBLEMS WITH PUBLIC HEALTH OR SAFETY BECAUSE HE'S ALREADY ESTABLISHED A TRACK RECORD OF MAINTAINING THINGS IN A WAY THAT'S SAFE BECAUSE THERE'S BEEN NO ISSUE TO DATE THERE, SO I THINK THAT'S OKAY.
>> WILL NOT BE INJURIOUS TO THE PEACEFUL USE AND ENJOYMENT OF OTHER PROPERTY IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD AND WILL NOT SUBSTANTIALLY DIMINISH OR IMPAIR PROPERTY VALUES.
>> I THINK WE HAVE TO USE THE TESTIMONY FROM FITZ TURNER TO SUPPORT THAT.
THE PEACEFUL USE AND ENJOYMENT CONTINUES, IT'S JUST WITH THE SAME EXACT THINGS THAT ARE ALREADY IN PLACE CURRENTLY THERE.
HOWEVER YOU'VE BEEN ENJOYING YOUR PROPERTY, IT'S PRETTY MUCH GOING TO BE THE SAME WAY EXCEPT THE CHANGES OBVIOUSLY WILL OCCUR, BUT IT'S NOT GOING TO IMPAIR THEIR ABILITY TO ENJOY THEIR PROPERTIES, I DON'T THINK.
>> IS THERE ANYTHING YOU WANT TO ADD TO THAT, MIKE?
>> THE SOUND ISSUE HAS BEEN MADE CLEAR.
[OVERLAPPING] IF THERE IS A SOUND ISSUE, THERE ARE SOME WAYS FOR THE RESIDENTS TO ESTABLISH HOW TO CORRECT THAT.
>> BY GOING TO THE COUNTY, SO WE DO HAVE A MEASUREMENT TO TAKE CARE OF THAT.
>> WILL NOT IMPEDE THE NORMAL OR ORDERLY DEVELOPMENT AND IMPROVEMENT OF SURROUNDING PROPERTY FOR USES PERMITTED IN THE ZONING DISTRICT.
>> IT'S ALLOWABLE, AND IT'S CONTINUING ON WITH THE CURRENT ZONING THERE.
THERE'S NO CHANGE OTHER THAN WE HAVE TO ADDRESS THE ISSUE ABOUT SETBACKS.
THAT'S THE ONLY THING THAT'S DIFFERENT.
>> THAT AND THE THREE ITEMS THAT WERE ON THIS ONE SHEET.
>> WILL NOT OVERBURDEN EXISTING PUBLIC FACILITIES, INCLUDING SCHOOLS, POLICE, FIRE PROTECTION, WATER, AND SEWAGE.
PUBLIC ROADS, STORM DRAINAGE, AND OTHER PUBLIC IMPROVEMENTS.
>> WELL, WE HAVE ANN'S TESTIMONY TO THAT WITH REGARDS TO NO POLICE CALLS, NO ISSUES WITH FIRE.
>> NO DWELLINGS ON THE PROPERTY TO ADD TO THE SCHOOL. [OVERLAPPING]
>> THERE'S NO DWELLINGS. [OVERLAPPING] IT'S ON A STATE ROAD, NOT A COUNTY ROAD, SO THERE'S LESS ISSUE WITH THAT, SO I DON'T THINK THAT'S AN ISSUE EITHER.
>> CONFORMS IN ALL OTHER RESPECTS TO THIS CHAPTER AND ESPECIALLY TO THE APPLICABLE REGULATIONS OF THE ZONING DISTRICT IN WHICH IT WOULD BE LOCATED.
THIS THING'S BEEN HERE SINCE THE 15TH CENTURY.
>> IT WAS ACTUALLY APPROVED BY THE STATE OF MARYLAND AS A MINING OPERATION IN 1977 SO IT HAS OPERATED WITHIN THE BOUNDARIES OF WHAT THE STATE OF MARYLAND SAYS IT HAS TO DO.
>> THEN THE ZONING DISTRICT, WE CHANGED OUR ZONING, BUT THAT'S WHAT WE HAVE TO ADDRESS ON THE BALANCE OF THE ISSUES.
>> NOW, THE NEXT ONE, THE NEW PARTS ARE NOT GOING TO BE IN A CRITICAL AREA.
>> EXISTING STUFF THAT'S ALREADY THERE HAS NO BEARING ON US SO I DON'T THINK WE HAVE TO ADDRESS IT AS BECAUSE IT DOESN'T HAVE ANY BEARING ON THE CRITICAL AREA.
THAT'S THOSE, NOW WE WANT TO MOVE ON. [OVERLAPPING]
[02:35:03]
>> WE'RE GOING TO DO THAT NOW OR WE'RE GOING TO WAIT TILL WE GET TO THE NEXT ONE?
>> LET'S DO THE NEXT ONE AND THEN WE'LL ADDRESS ALL OF THAT.
>> I DON'T THINK SOME OF THESE APPLY.
>> THE MAXIMUM PLANT SIZE, THE 500,000 SQUARE FEET.
>> I BELIEVE WE DETERMINED THAT BASICALLY, PLANT SIZE IN THIS CASE, IS NOT THE ACTUAL PROPERTY.
>> THIS TIME IT'S JUST A SMALL SCREED.
>> AT THE MOST, COULD BE 53 FOOT LONG BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT WOULD BE ALLOWED ON THE HIGHWAYS.
HOW MANY EMPLOYEES DO YOU THINK YOU HAVE OUT THERE, RICK?
>> YOU'RE VERY FAR AWAY FROM THE 500 DEAL. GOT YOU.
>> THE PLANNING COMMISSION AND OR ZONING ADMINISTRATOR SHALL PROVIDE A STAFF REPORT WITH RECOMMENDATIONS.
>> YES. WE DID RECEIVE THE STAFF REPORT FROM BOTH
>> FROM STAFF AND FROM PLANNING COMMISSION?
>> YES. NOTWITHSTANDING 175-144, THE APPLICANT SHALL HAVE 18 MONTHS FROM FINAL SITE PLAN APPROVAL.
DOES THIS EVEN APPLY TO US, PATRICK? BECAUSE HE'S GOT TO GET THE FINAL PLANNING APPROVAL TO THE BOARD.
>> WHICH STILL HAS TO GO BACK TO PLANNING COMMISSION.
IF THIS IS BASICALLY, HE STILL HAS TO GO BACK TO PLANNING COMMISSION.
I THINK THIS DOES APPLY BECAUSE HE'LL STILL HAVE 18 MONTHS HE HAS TO.
>> THAT WAS ADDED IN PREVIOUSLY WHEN WE ADOPTED THE REGS BECAUSE OF THE TIME IT TAKES FOR MDE TO ISSUE THE PERMITS.
TYPICALLY, THE APPROVALS ARE A YEAR, BUT THE REGULATIONS SPECIFY 18 MONTHS, AND ANNE'S GOT SOME CLARIFICATION, IF YOU WANT.
>> ACTUALLY, WE HAVE TO GO THROUGH ALL THREE LEVELS.
PRELIMINARY SITE PLAN, [INAUDIBLE] AND FINAL SITE PLAN BEFORE WE CAN EVEN SUBMIT TO THE MINING. THAT'S [INAUDIBLE]
>> LET ME JUST SAY YES AND THEN JUST USE HIS APPLICATION, THE EXHIBIT 3.
DOES THIS SPECIAL USE EXCEPTION RUN CO-EXTENSIVELY WITH A STATE ISSUED PERMIT? I GUESS IT DOES.
>> EXPLAIN THAT TO US, PATRICK.
>> IN CONJUNCTION WITH MDE PERMIT TO OPERATE?
>> I THINK WHAT IT MEANS IS THAT IF, AS IT SAYS IN C IF THE STATE OWNS THE PERMIT, THEN THE SPECIAL USE EXCEPTION EXPIRES, SO YOU CAN'T HAVE THE USE WITHOUT THE STATE PERMIT.
I THINK THAT'S WHAT THAT ADDRESSES.
>> HE'S ALREADY EXISTING, SO TO SAY YES.
>> WHAT I'M SAYING, THE BOARD HAS TO FIND.
IT'S A CONDITION. IT'S SET FORTH IN THE CODE, SO IT APPLIES.
>> A PERSON DESIRING TO USE PROPERTY FOR MINERAL EXTRACTION SHALL BE REQUIRED TO OBTAIN SPECIAL USE EXCEPTION FROM THE BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS.
AFTER RECEIVING A PRELIMINARY PLAN SITE RECOMMENDATION FROM THE ZONING ADMINISTRATOR OR THE PLANNING COMMISSION, NOTICE OF THE HEARING SHALL BE BEFORE THE BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS AND OR THE SPECIAL USE EXCEPTION.
APPLICATION SHALL BE PROVIDED TO NAME THE ADDRESS ON THE RECORD WITH THE STATE DEPARTMENT OF ASSESSMENTS AND TAXATION OF EVERY PROPERTY OWNER WHOSE PROPERTY OR ANY PORTION THEREOF IS WITHIN 1,000 FEET FOR MAJOR MINERAL EXTRACTION OR 500 FEET FOR MINOR MINERAL EXTRACTION OF THE BOUNDARY LINE.
ANY PROPERTIES OF WHICH THE MINERAL EXTRACTION OPERATIONS OR THE ACCESSORY USE OR OPERATIONS RELATED TO SUCH MINERAL EXTRACTIONS OPERATIONS ARE TO BE CONDUCTED, THE APPLICANT SHALL PROVIDE A LIST OF THE NAMES AND ADDRESSES OF ALL SUCH PROPERTY OWNERS. WE DID.
[02:40:02]
>> WE HAVE THAT. THERE'S THREE PAGES.
>> WE DID THAT. THREE PAGES OF THAT.
EXHIBIT 10, SO THAT'S BEEN DONE.
>> THAT'S WHY SOME OF THESE FOLKS CAME TO SEE US TONIGHT.
BECAUSE THEY WERE MAILED THESE LETTERS.
>> BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS REVIEW THE APPROVED SITE PLAN AS PART OF THE APPLICATION FOR SPECIAL USE EXCEPTION AND MAY MAKE MODIFICATIONS OR IMPOSE OFF-SITE IMPROVEMENTS AND OR ADDITIONAL REQUIREMENTS DEEMED NECESSARY BY THE BOARD TO SATISFY THE USE EXCEPTION CRITERIA OF SITE IMPROVEMENTS REQUIRED BY THE BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS SHALL BE BASED UPON ROUGH PROPORTIONAL BETWEEN THE REQUIRED IMPROVEMENT AND THE PROJECTED IMPACT OF THE PROPOSED FACILITY.
>> THE SITE PLAN, WHAT WAS THAT?
NOTWITHSTANDING 175-144, THE APPLICANT SHALL HAVE 18 MONTHS FROM FINAL SITE PLAN APPROVAL TO OBTAIN A ZONING CERTIFICATE AND OR BUILDING PERMIT AND TO COMMENCE DEVELOPMENT OF THE MINING FACILITY BEFORE SUCH SPECIAL USE EXEMPTIONS SHALL BECOME NULL AND VOID.
THE APPLICANT SHALL BE ABLE TO OBTAIN UP TO ADDITIONAL SIX MONTHS EXTENSION BEFORE THE APPROVAL IS VOIDED.
IF THE APPLICANT, TO THE SATISFACTION OF THE BOARD, ESTABLISHES THAT IT HAS DILIGENTLY PURSUED NECESSARY STATE APPROVALS BUT HAS BEEN DELAYED FOR REASONS BEYOND ITS CONTROL AND OBTAINING SUCH STATE APPROVALS.
IF THE STATE VOIDS THE PERMITS ISSUED TO THE APPLICANT THAT ALLOW THE APPLICANT TO ENGAGE IN MINERAL EXTRACTION OR REFUSES TO ISSUE THE APPLICANT NECESSARY PERMITS FOR PHASE WORK, AND SPECIAL USE EXCEPTION GRANTED BY THE BOARD, SHALL AUTOMATICALLY EXPIRE AND THE APPLICANT SHALL BECOME OBLIGATED TO CLOSE AND RECLAIM THE SITE IN ACCORDANCE WITH MARYLAND STATE LAW AND REGULATIONS.
ANY BOND OF THE PERMIT FOR SUCH PURPOSES SUBMITTED BY THE APPLICANT.
SPECIAL USE EXCEPTION GRANTED BY THE BOARD SHALL RUN CO-EXIST WITH THE STATE ISSUED PERMIT.
ANY FINAL DECISION OF THE BOARD MAY BE APPEALED TO THE CIRCUIT COURT OF CAROLINE COUNTY, FILE PETITION FOR JUDICIAL REVIEW.
MINIMUM REQUIREMENT STANDARDS, NEW LAND DISTURBANCE, EXCEPT FOR THE PURPOSE OF CONSTRUCTING A BUFFER, ETC, BARNS, LANDSCAPING THAT HAS BEEN APPROVED BY THE ZONING ADMINISTRATOR.
FOR MINOR MINERAL EXTRACTION, THE PLANNING COMMISSION OR MAJOR MINERAL EXTRACTION SHALL OCCUR WITHIN 200 FEET OF A RIGHT AWAY LINE AND ANY PUBLIC ROAD.
ABSENT AND ESTABLISHED RIGHT OF WAY LINE, THE DISTANCE SHALL BE MEASURED FROM THE EDGE OF THE TRAVEL PORTION OF THE ROADWAY.
>> THE BUFFER'S ALREADY BEEN ESTABLISHED IN THIS CASE.
IT WAS ESTABLISHED BACK IN 2005.
>> NO LAND DISTURBANCE EXCEPT FOR THE PURPOSE OF CONSTRUCTING A BUFFER YARD THAT HAS BEEN APPROVED BY THE ZONING ADMINISTRATOR OR PLANNING COMMISSION SHALL OCCUR WITHIN 200 FEET OF A LOT LINE REGARDLESS OF OWNERSHIP OF THE PARCELS.
>> THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE HAVE TO ADDRESS.
>> THEY WHAT WE HAVE TO REDUCE.
>> THERE'S LOTS OF THINGS IN HERE YET THAT ARE ADDRESSING THE 200 FOOT SETBACK.
>> WE'RE GOING TO COME BACK TO THAT?
>> STORAGE OF MATERIALS OR EQUIPMENT SHALL NOT OCCUR WITHIN 200 FEET OF A RIGHT OF WAY LINE, ANY PUBLIC [INAUDIBLE] OR WITHIN 200 FEET OF A PROPERTY LINE REGARDLESS OF THE OWNERSHIP OF THE PARCELS.
>> STORAGE OF MATERIALS OR EQUIPMENT.
>> ALL THAT STUFF APPLIES TO THE 200 FOOT SET BACK.
>> RIGHT NOW IF THE 200 FOOT STAYS IN PLACE, IF IT'S BEING MINED OVER HERE,
[02:45:02]
BUT UP HERE IS PART OF THAT 200 FOOT, YOU CANNOT LEAVE A PIECE OF EQUIPMENT THERE.>> YOU'RE RIGHT. BECAUSE THE STORAGE IS GOING TO BE WAY BACK.
>> BASICALLY, THE LANGUAGE SPECIFIES THAT NOTHING CAN REALLY HAPPEN IN THAT 200 FEET UNLESS A SETBACK MODIFICATION IS GRANTED OTHER THAN FOR THE CONSTRUCTION OF BARNS OR LANDSCAPING?
>> ANY STRUCTURES USED AND ASSOCIATED IN ANY MANNER WITH EXTRACTION, PROCESSING OR WASH, PLANT SHALL NOT BE ERECTED WITHIN 200 FEET OF ANY PROPERTY LINE OR WITHIN 200 FEET OF ANY PUBLIC.
THE SETBACK TO ADJOINING PROPERTY LINE SHALL NOT APPLY WHERE A JOINING PROPERTY IS USED FOR MINERAL EXTRACTION OR HEAVY INDUSTRY.
EXTRACTION AND OR PROCESSING SITE SHALL PROVIDE A MINIMUM 100 FOOT BUFFER OF NATURAL VEGETATION BETWEEN OPERATION AND EDGES OF STREAMS, WASH PLANTS, INCLUDING, PONDS, AND SPOIL PILES THAT SHALL NOT BE LOCATED AND EQUIPMENT SHALL NOT BE STORED WITHIN THIS BUFFER AREA.
WHICH IS NOT GOING TO DO THAT ANYWAY.
EXTRACTION SITES IN THE CRITICAL AREA SHALL BE REFERRED TO THE CRITICAL AREA COMMISSION FOR REVIEW.
ANY REQUIREMENTS ESTABLISHED BY THE CRITICAL AREA COMMISSION SHALL BE INCLUDED IN THE FINAL SITE PLAN.
>> WE'RE NOT DEALING WITH ANYTHING IN THE CRITICAL AREA.
>> BECAUSE IT'S NOT CRITICAL AREAS, THERE WAS NO CRITICAL AREA COMMISSION REVIEW.
>> SETBACKS ESTABLISHED IN THIS SECTION MAYBE MODIFIED ON A CASE TO CASE BASIS BY THE BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS AS PART OF A SPECIAL USE EXCEPTION PROCESSED AFTER RECOMMENDATION BY THE ZONING ADMINISTRATOR AND OR PLANNING COMMISSION AND BASED ON THE FACTS OF THE CIRCUMSTANCES OF RECORD.
>> THAT'S WHERE WE FIND OURSELVES.
I GUESS WE SHOULD START THERE.
LET'S FIND THOSE CONDITIONS AND STUFF.
>> I WILL MENTION THAT THE PLANNING COMMISSION RECOMMENDATION IS EXHIBIT NUMBER 7.
THAT OUTLINES THREE CONDITIONS THAT THEY RECOMMEND, ONE DEALING WITH THE 200 FOOT SETBACK.
>> EXHIBIT 7. THEIR CONDITIONS WERE A REDUCTION IN THE 200 FOOT SETBACK REQUIREMENT FROM PROPERTY LINES TO 75 FEET, ALLOW FOR A MAXIMUM OF THREE TIMES PER DAY OF DRY SCREENING OF MATERIALS AND THE CONTINUED MONITORING OF THE WATER DISCHARGE FROM THE PROPERTY.
THOSE WERE THEIR RECOMMENDED CONDITIONS.
>> I'M JUST TRYING TO SEE WHERE, I DON'T SEE THAT.
>> THAT'S WHAT I'M LOOKING FOR TOO.
>> I DON'T KNOW WHY I'M NOT FINDING IT.
I'M LOOKING AT THE STAFF REPORT.
>> IT'S RIGHT UNDER THE MARYLAND DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION LETTER, KAREN.
>> WHAT DID YOU SAY? EXHIBIT 7?
>> THE TRANSCRIPT'S WRITTEN ON THE BOARD.
NOT VERY LARGE, BUT IT'S ON THE BOARD.
>> THERE YOU GO. BASICALLY, WE'VE BEEN ADVISED BY THE PLANNING COMMISSION THAT THEY FEEL LIKE IT'S A GOOD THING TO DO. THERE WE GO.
>> THE PLANNING COMMISSION SAYS A REDUCTION OF 200 FOOT SETBACK FROM THE PROPERTY LINE OF 75 MINIMUM.
WELL, YOU ALREADY SAID ALL THAT.
>> I THINK WHAT'S CRUCIAL IS THAT WE PAY ATTENTION TO THE FACT
[02:50:05]
THAT REALLY WHAT THIS ALL COMES DOWN TO IS, IT'S NOT ABOUT TRYING TO UPSET THE NEIGHBORS.BUT WHEN YOU HAVE A MINE AND YOU'VE BEEN AT IT ALL THESE YEARS, TO MAXIMIZE THE USE OF THAT PROPERTY IS IN THE BEST INTEREST OF THE COMMUNITY, EVEN THOUGH IT MIGHT UPSET THE NEIGHBORS, THE BOTTOM LINE IS THERE'S MATERIAL THERE THAT NEEDS TO BE USED.
IF YOU DON'T USE IT, THEN THE LAND BECOMES NOTHING.
YOU CAN'T DO ANYTHING MORE WITH IT. IT JUST SITS THERE.
THIS MATERIAL IS IMPORTANT TO THE COMMUNITY AT LARGE BECAUSE YOU'RE BUILDING HOUSES, YOU'RE BUILDING ROADS.
THERE'S ALL THIS STUFF THAT HAS TO BE DONE WITHIN OUR COMMUNITY, AND YOU DON'T WANT TO JUST SAY, MR. BRADEN, GO FIND ANOTHER FARM AND LET'S JUST START ALL OVER AGAIN.
LET'S FINISH WHAT WE HAVE HERE BECAUSE IT'S ALREADY SET UP AND ESTABLISHED. THAT'S THE POINT.
AS MUCH AS IT'S OFFENSIVE TO SOME PEOPLE OR TROUBLESOME, THE GOAL SHOULD BE TO TRY TO GET WHAT WE CAN.
I AGREE WITH ANNE THAT YOU REALLY WANT TO MAXIMIZE THOSE FIVE-ACRE STRIPS AND JUST GO AHEAD AND GIVE THEM THE 75 FEET.
BECAUSE IT TAKES ADVANTAGE OF ALL THE MATERIAL THAT'S THERE AND MAXIMIZES WHAT THAT PROPERTY CAN PROVIDE TO THE COMMUNITY.
THAT'S MY STANCE, RATHER THAN SAYING, WE'LL JUST LEAVE THE 200 FOOT BECAUSE. WHAT'S THE PURPOSE? IT'S ALREADY BEEN SET UP THAT WAY, AND WHY NOT LET THEM FINALIZE AND FINISH WHAT THEIR GOAL WAS THERE? THAT'S MY TAKE.
>> WE'VE ADDRESSED THIS BEFORE IN PREVIOUS MINING OPERATIONS.
>> PART OF THE AREA, THE 75 -FOOT WAS ALL THAT WAS EVER REQUIRED THERE?
>> THERE'S NOT SAND [INAUDIBLE] LAND IN THIS COUNTY?
>> NO. THERE'S VEINS OF IT THAT RUN THROUGH JUST LIKE THE AQUIFERS THAT RUN THROUGH THROUGH THIS AREA FOR THE WELLS.
THERE'S THERE'S VEINS OF SAND.
THERE'S PROBABLY AREAS OF THIS PROPERTY THAT PRODUCE GREAT CLAY, BUT TERRIBLE BANK RUN.
THAT'S WHY ALL OF THESE FACILITIES ARE ABLE TO DO MORE THAN JUST ONE TYPE OF MATERIAL OUT OF THEIR MINING OPERATION.
YOU'RE GOING TO GET SCREEN TOP SOIL OFF THE FIRST LAYERS.
THEN DEPENDING ON WHAT'S UNDERNEATH OF IT, WHETHER IT'S JUST A COMMON FILL OR IT'S A DECENT BANK RUN LAYER OR SOME CLAY MIXED IN THERE, BUT ONE THING THAT WAS SAID, AND IT'S BEEN SAID BY MULTIPLE PEOPLE OVER THE YEARS, THAT, I BELIEVE IT WAS 2.9 ACRES THAT, UNFORTUNATELY, BUTTS UP TO THE [INAUDIBLE] ROADSIDE AND 16, IF THEY DON'T MIND, THERE'S NOTHING THAT SAYS THAT THE LAMORS PROPERTY ACROSS THE ROAD WON'T GET BOUGHT UP, AND THAT WOULD BE THE NEXT PARCEL THAT'S DIGGING OUT OF IT.
THE BUFFER IS NOT ESTABLISHED THERE, SO THEY'RE GOING TO START DIGGING, THE NOISE LEVELS ARE GOING TO BE HIGHER.
THEY'RE JUST TRYING TO GET EVERY PIECE OF DIRT OUT OF THERE.
>> WE'VE COVERED THIS SEVERAL DIFFERENT TIMES AND THE PLANNING COMMISSION'S MAKING A RECOMMENDATION.
>> I'M IN FAVOR WITH THE POWERS THAT BE THAT HAVE SUGGESTED THAT.
THEN BASED ON WHAT WE'VE DELIBERATED ON BEFORE, THAT WE ALLOW THE REDUCTION TO 75 FEET IS MY OPINION.
I DON'T HAVE ANY ISSUE WITH THE OTHER ISSUES AS WELL.
I'M PRETTY MUCH IN FAVOR OF ALLOWING THEM TO CONTINUE WHAT THEY'RE DOING.
>> THE SCREENING OPERATION THAT'S GOING ON, THEY'RE BASICALLY TAKING A PAYLOAD.
IT'S GOT DIFFERENT WIDTHS OF STUFF THAT SEPARATES IT INTO DIFFERENT PILES.
THERE'S NOT A PLANT THAT'S SITTING UP THERE AND IT'S CLUNKING AND CHUNKING AND WATER PUMPING THROUGH IT.
>> PUMPING ALL DIFFERENT LOCATIONS, SO THAT'S BASICALLY A DRY SCENARIO THERE.
HE'S NOT ASKING FOR SIX DAYS A WEEK ALL DAY LONG.
THEY'RE ASKING TO BE ABLE TO DO THIS FOR THREE DAYS OUT OF THE WEEK.
BECAUSE MOST OF THE TIME, AS MR. BRADEN SAID, THERE'S SOME DAYS A TRUCK DOESN'T EVEN RUN IN THERE.
THEY MIGHT BE ONE OR TWO TO GO IN THERE.
ANOTHER DAY, THERE'S GOING TO BE 16 THAT RUN IN THERE.
>> IT JUST DEPENDS ON THE NEED.
[02:55:03]
>> IF CAROLINE COUNTY IS SAYING, WE'RE TOP DRESSING THIS MANY MILES OF DIRT ROAD THIS MONTH, THEY KNOW HOW MANY LOADS THEY PRETTY MUCH ARE GOING TO NEED.
THAT'S THAT'S THE REASON FOR THE SCREENING BECAUSE THEY GOT TO HAVE THAT PREPARED.
THEY'RE NOT GOING TO DUMP A BOULDER THAT'S 14" IN DIAMETER IN THE MIDDLE OF THAT ROAD?
>> NO. AS FAR AS THE TRUCKS PER DAY INCREASE TO AN AVERAGE OF 16 PER DAY, DOES ANYBODY HAVE ANY ISSUE WITH THAT?
>> THAT'S ALL HE'S ASKING FOR.
>> SIXTEEN IS A LARGE AMOUNT OF TRUCKS, BUT WE ALSO NEED TO ADDRESS THE CONTINUED [INAUDIBLE]
>> WELL, YEAH, THAT GOES WITHOUT SAYING.
THERE'S GOING TO BE THAT REGARDLESS, BUT I THINK THE CONDITIONS WERE THE 3-4 DAYS PER WEEK FOR DRY SCREENING, AND THEN THE 75 FEET AND THEN THE TRUCKS PER DAY.
WHAT ELSE? THE WATER DISCHARGE.
>> I KNOW SOME OF THE NEIGHBORS WERE TALKING ABOUT TIME.
>> DID YOU SAY 7:00-5:00, RICK?
>> 7:00-5:00, AND I THINK THESE CONDITIONS ARE CERTIFIED.
THE PRE EXISTING CONDITIONS FROM A 2005 PLAN [INAUDIBLE].
>> WHAT YOU'RE SAYING WAS THAT THEY WERE ALREADY ALLOWED 6:00-5:00?
>> WHAT ARE YOU GENERALLY DOING, RICK?
>> WOULD IT MAKE SENSE TO STAY AT 6:30 RATHER THAN 6:00 AND MAKE IT A COMPROMISE INSTEAD OF 7:00 AND SAY 6:30-5:00? WOULD THAT BE ENOUGH THAT YOU'RE STILL MAXIMIZING YOUR DAY?
>> YOU PREFER TO BE EARLIER AND ENDING EARLIER?
>> THAT IS TYPICALLY WHAT YOU'VE BEEN DOING, THE 6:00?
>> HAS THAT BEEN A PROBLEM TO THE NEIGHBORS? HAVE YOU GUYS HAD ANY ISSUE WITH THAT TIME? DO YOU FEEL LIKE YOU'RE HEARING MORE THAN YOU WOULD?
>> I HEAR IT 6:00, BUT IF IT'S GOING TO BE CLOSER TO THE BACK OF MY HOUSE, I'M GOING TO HEAR IT EVEN MORE.
>> I DON'T KNOW. HOW DO YOU GUYS FEEL ABOUT THAT? I FEEL LIKE 6:00 IS A REALLY EARLY TIME, I FEEL LIKE, BUT I ALSO UNDERSTAND WITH TRUCKS AND WHAT YOU'RE TRYING TO DO, GET THEM IN AND GET THEM OUT AND GET THEM ON THE ROAD, BUT I FEEL LIKE MAKING SOME CONCESSIONS MIGHT BE HELPFUL.
>> THE SIX O'CLOCK TIME FRAME, RICK, IS THAT NECESSARILY WHEN DEMANDS ON THE LONG ARM EXCAVATOR OR ON THE LOADER DIGGING MATERIAL OR IS THAT BASICALLY THAT 6:00 AM WOULD BE MORE OF A TIME WHERE HE'S LOADING A TRUCK AND THAT TRUCK GETS OUT OF HERE AND AFTER HE GETS TWO OR THREE TRUCKS GONE AND HE HAS TIME, THEN HE GOES TO THE DIGGING OPERATION?
>> HE WOULD BE LOADING AT 6:30.
>> THE TRUCKS AREN'T STAGED AT THE PIT.
THE TRUCKS ARE STAGED AT YOUR YARD ON CRYSTAL AVENUE.
BY THE TIME THEY GET TO WORK, BS FOR A FEW MINUTES WHILE THE TRUCKS ARE WARMING UP, THEY'RE 6:30 BEFORE THEY GET TO THE PIT ROUGHLY.
>> COMING INTO THE [INAUDIBLE] DO 7:00, 7:30.
>> BECAUSE THE DAYLIGHT'S NOT THERE.
IT'S ACTUALLY ALREADY APPROVED IN HERE.
>> IT'S ALREADY APPROVED. I JUST I WAS ASKING IF YOU WOULD HAVE AN ISSUE WITH MOVING THAT TO 6:30 AS A CONCESSION. THAT'S ALL I WAS SAYING.
WHETHER WE SPECIFY THAT OR LEAVE IT THE WAY IT IS, IT'S NOT UP FOR CHANGE OTHER THAN I'M ASKING FOR YOUR INPUT TO WHETHER WE STATE SOMETHING THAT'S COMPLETELY DIFFERENT THAN WHAT IT WAS AND MOVING FORWARD, THE WINTER MONTHS ARE THIS, THE SUMMER MONTHS ARE THIS THAT'S FINE TOO, BUT I DON'T WANT TO TAKE AWAY WHAT YOU ALREADY HAVE THE RIGHT TO DO.
I'M JUST ASKING IF YOU'RE WILLING TO CONCEDE.
>> I'D RATHER LEAVE IT AT 6:00.
>> I THINK IT'S ALREADY AT 6:00.
>> I WAS JUST ASKING HIM IF HE WAS WILLING, AND HE SAID HE'D LIKE TO LEAVE IT AT 6:00.
WE'RE NOT GOING TO TAKE AWAY SOMETHING IF IT'S ALREADY APPROVED THAT WAY.
I WAS JUST TRYING TO SEE IF THERE WAS ROOM FOR CHANGE ON THAT, BUT IT'S IT'S GENERALLY IN THE SUMMER MONTHS ANYWAY THAT THAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN OR WHEN THE TIME CHANGES.
>> WHAT DO YOU THINK? YOU CAN'T REALLY DO NOTHING ABOUT IT.
[03:00:01]
>> THEY'RE ALREADY ESTABLISHED.
>> I DON'T KNOW THAT IT EVEN NEEDS TO BE SATED, OTHER THAN HOURS OF OPERATION REMAIN AS THEY ARE.
>> THAT WAS MONDAY THROUGH FRIDAY, 6:00-6:00, SATURDAYS FROM 6:00 -1:00.
WE'LL JUST MAKE A POINT OF SAYING THAT THEY'RE STAYING THAT WAY.
>> HOW DO YOU GUYS FEEL ABOUT A GATE TO THE ENTRANCE?
>> THE MAIN ENTRANCE TO THE PIT ALREADY HAS A GATE.
I THINK WHERE THE NEW BUILDING IS, THAT THERE SHOULD BE ONE MAINLY TO PROTECT YOU GUYS BECAUSE THAT WOULD KEEP ANYBODY FROM WANDERING IN THERE.
LET'S SAY, IT'S DARK, THE LIGHTING IS NOT GREAT, AND THEY WIND UP RUNNING INTO A PIECE OF EQUIPMENT, THE BUILDING, OR EVEN AS THE MINING OPERATION GETS THAT WAY 10 YEARS FROM NOW, HEAVEN FORBID, THEY RUN DOWN IN THERE.
>> THE GATE MIGHT BE A REQUEST FROM US.
>> WE MIGHT PUT IN THAT REQUEST TO GO AHEAD AND ADD A GATE THERE AT THAT ENTRANCE ALSO.
>> WE COVERED THE TRUCKS PER DAY.
DID WE GET TO SAY ANYTHING ABOUT THE WATER DISCHARGE OR NO? WE COVERED THAT?
>> IT'S GOING TO STAY MONITORED IN THE WAY THAT IT HAS BEEN.
>> WELL, THEY'VE REQUESTED THE MODIFICATION OF THAT CONDITION THAT LISTS THAT THEY CAN'T HAVE OFF SITE DISCHARGE.
AS PART OF THAT, THAT WAS DISCUSSED, AND PLANNING COMMISSION WAS LIKE, WELL, THAT NEEDS TO GO AWAY, BUT IN ORDER TO DO THAT, YOU CAN CONTINUE TO MONITOR LIKE YOU'VE BEEN DOING.
IT'S A MODIFICATION OF CONDITION 17.
>> MEANING THAT THEY CAN DISCHARGE?
>> YES. BECAUSE THAT CONDITION SAYS THAT THEY'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO BE DISCHARGING, BUT THEY'VE BEEN DISCHARGING SINCE BEFORE THAT CONDITION EVEN EXISTED.
>> THEN IT GETS FILTERS THROUGH.
>> [OVERLAPPING] IF IT GETS ABOVE THAT, THEN IT FILTERS OUT.
>> AND GOES THROUGH OTHER SEDIMENT AND STUFF BEFORE IT GETS OUT TO THE CREEK.
WE HAVE TO SAY YES OR NO TO THEM.
>> TO ALLOWING THAT MODIFICATION TO CONDITION 17?
>> CONDITION 17 IS THE ONE AT THAT COVER?
>> I DON'T SEE ANY PROBLEM WITH IT BECAUSE THEY ARE BEING MONITORED CURRENTLY.
>> CONCENTRATING A LOT TO CREEK.
>> THEY'VE BEEN MONITORED ALL ALONG AND THERE'S BEEN NO PROBLEM.
>> WHAT DID WE SAY? THE MONITORING.
>> [OVERLAPPING] 2019. THERE'S BEEN NO VIOLATION AS LONG AS THEY HAD RECORDS BACK.
>> IT'S AN INDEPENDENT TESTER.
>> WE'RE GOING TO MODIFY SECTION 17 TO ALLOW THEM TO CONTINUE TO DISCHARGE AS LONG AS IT'S STILL BEING MONITORED.
>> YES. YOU MAKE THE RECOMMENDATION THEN, MIKE. YES.
>> DO YOU HAVE ALL THE [INAUDIBLE]?
>> I'VE GOT A LOT OF THESE EMAILS.
>> FOR CAROLINE MATERIALS, WE ARE GOING TO RECOMMEND THE PLANNING COMMISSION'S REPORT OF A REDUCTION FROM 200 FEET TO 75 FEET ON THE BUFFER.
ALLOW FOR SCREENING THREE DAYS A WEEK.
CONTINUED DISCHARGE FROM THE PROPERTY, WHICH IS A MODIFICATION FROM CONDITION 17 THAT WILL ALLOW THEM TO CONTINUE TO DISCHARGE AS LONG AS MINOR SCREENING IS DONE.
WE'RE GOING TO ALLOW THEM 16 LOADS PER DAY ON AVERAGE.
HOURS OF OPERATION WILL REMAIN THE SAME, NO CHANGES.
>> YES. AND TO ADD A GATE AT THE ENTRANCE TO THE NEW BUILDING OFF OF MARYLAND ROUTE 16.
THAT'S ALL PART OF MDE'S THING.
I DON'T KNOW IF DUST CONTROL OR ANY OF THAT NEEDS TO BE.
>> WE DON'T HAVE TO ADDRESS THAT.
>> THAT'S OUTLINED IN THEIR OPERATIONS PLAN.
>> THAT'S OUTLINED IN THE OPERATIONS.
>> THEN GO BACK TO THE RECOMMENDED ACTIONS PART WHEN YOU DO AND MAKE SURE THAT THEY DO ALL THAT STUFF.
>> WELL, THEY RECOMMEND FROM THE STAFF REPORT,
[03:05:01]
SO I THINK WE CAN JUST LEGITIMATELY SAY TO FOLLOW ALL RECOMMENDED ACTIONS FROM STAFF REPORT WITHOUT LISTING EACH AND EVERY ONE.>> THREE TO FOUR DAYS PER WEEK, DRY SCREENING.
>> I JUST DIDN'T HEAR YOU SAY THE WORDS APPROVED., SO I WAS MAKING SURE.
>> THANK YOU FOR COMING OUT, MR. BRADEN, AND GOOD LUCK WITH EVERYTHING.
PLEASE CONTINUE TO BE A GOOD NEIGHBOR TO YOUR NEIGHBORS.
>> WE'RE NOT DONE. WE'VE GOT TO APPROVE THIS.
>> I DID. THEY LOOK GREAT. AIN'T THAT WHAT YOU WANT TO HEAR?
>> HOLD ON. I'M TRYING TO SCROLL TO IT NOW.
THERE'S SO MANY PAGES IN THIS.
>> I'M SORRY, I'VE GOT A COPY THAT IS SINGLE.
THIS IS THE ONE THAT ONLY KAREN NEEDS TO SIGN THE MINUTES IF YOU-ALL APPROVE IT. YOU'VE GOT TO MAKE A MOTION.
>> YOU'VE GOT TO MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE.
[4) Minutes & Decision for approval]
>> I'LL MAKE THE MOTION TO APPROVE THE MINUTES.
>> FROM TUESDAY, OCTOBER 17TH, 2023.
>> THIS IS THE DECISION THAT YOU-ALL HAVE TO MOVE TO ACCEPT AND ALL NEED TO ASSIGN.
>> I MADE A MOTION TO APPROVE THE MINUTES FROM THE CAROLINE COUNTRY CLUB, JULY 3RD, 2023.
>> KATHERINE, IT SAYS HERE JULY 3RD, SHOWS [INAUDIBLE].
>> THAT'S WHEN HE FILED THE APPLICATION.
>> I MAKE THE MOTION TO APPROVE THE DECISION FROM AUGUST 15TH, 2023.
>> WE'RE GOING TO MAKE A MOTION TO ADJOURN.
>> I THINK YOU GUYS, ALL OF YOU NEED TO SIGN.
[5) Adjournment]
>> SIGN THE DECISION. WE CAN ADJOURN, AND I HOPE I CAN MAKE IT HOME BEFORE I FALL ASLEEP.
WELL, YOU'VE WORKED ALL DAY AND THEN THIS.
>> I'VE JUST BEEN AT HOME WITH THIS BABY.
>> [INAUDIBLE].
* This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.