May 14, 2025 Construction Trades Board

[00:00:01]

HE SAID. PUNK'S SUPPOSED TO BE HERE, THOUGH. BUT I'M GOING TO GO AHEAD AND START.

IF PUNK COMES AND HE CAN JUST COME IN AS HE GOES.

SO I'LL GO AHEAD AND CALL THE MEETING TO ORDER. I WANT TO THANK EVERYBODY FOR TAKING

[Meeting Called to Order ]

[Complaints]

I'M ALSO ON THE COMPLAINTS COMMITTEE FOR THE STATE BOARD OF MASTER ELECTRICIAN.

SO I'M STARTING TO SEE A LOT OF A LOT OF THINGS.

AND I'M I'M SEEING IT HAPPEN HERE.

SO I WANT TO TRY TO GET AHEAD OF IT.

I GOT A CALL. IT'S KIND OF STARTED BETWEEN THE COMPLAINTS COMMITTEE MEETING.

I HAVEN'T GOT ANYTHING OUT OF CAROLINE AT THE COMPLAINTS COMMITTEE MEETING, BUT I HAD ONE OUT OF DORCHESTER THIS PAST MONTH.

BUT JUST PRIOR TO THAT CHRIS CLEVENGER CALLED ME.

[Uninsured/Unlicensed Electricians]

THEY HAD BROUGHT HIM IN TO TO THEIR MEETING BECAUSE HE HAD NO LICENSE.

HE SAID HE WAS AN APPRENTICE AT BEST, A SECOND YEAR APPRENTICE AT BEST.

BUT HE HAD HIS OWN ELECTRICAL BUSINESS, AND HE HAD A GUY THAT WAS PULLING THE PERMITS FOR HIM. AND I ASKED, BUT HE WASN'T DOING ANY WORK IN TALBOT COUNTY AT THE TIME. SO I ASKED CHRIS.

I SAID, WELL, HOW DID YOU, THIS GUY, COME IN FRONT OF YOU? AND HE SAID, WELL, HE HANGS OUT AT THE SUPPLY HOUSES AND HE HAS ALL THE GUYS THAT COME IN AND OUT. HEY, HOW WOULD YOU DO THIS AND HOW WOULD YOU DO THAT? AND WHAT DO I DO HERE? SO THE SUPPLIERS NOTIFIED CHRIS AND BUT HE SAID, I'M CALLING YOU NOT BECAUSE JUST BECAUSE YOU'RE ON A STATE BOARD. HE SAID, BUT I KNOW YOU'RE THE CHAIR OF THE BOARD AND THIS GUY'S WORKING IN CAROLINE COUNTY.

I JUST SO HAPPEN TO BE TALKING TO ADAM.

ARE YOU PUNK, BY THE WAY? YES, I AM ALRIGHT.

GOOD. I'M GLAD YOU MADE IT.

I'VE NEVER MET YOU, BUT.

SO I HAPPEN TO BE TALKING TO ADAM ABOUT THIS.

AND ADAM SAID, HEY. YEAH, I GOT AN INSPECTION IN FEDERALSBURG, WHICH WAS IN THE TOWN OF FEDERALSBURG.

SO IT'S OUT OF OUR JURISDICTION, SO TO SPEAK.

AND AS WE GOT DIGGING INTO IT, THE GUY THAT'S PULLING THE PERMITS IS NOT EVEN INSURED. HE'S LICENSED, BUT NOT INSURED.

HE'S STILL NOT INSURED AS OF YESTERDAY, BECAUSE I CHECKED.

WELL, I BROUGHT THIS UP IN THE COMPLAINTS COMMITTEE MEETING LAST MONTH BECAUSE THERE

[Reporting Non-Compliant Electricians]

NOBODY KNEW WHAT TO DO, AND THE STATE DIDN'T EVEN KNOW WHAT WE WERE SUPPOSED TO DO. SO I GOT THAT STRAIGHT SO THAT TALBOT COUNTY COULD FILE THEIR COMPLAINT WITH THE STATE. BUT THEY DID TELL ME THAT AS A COUNTY BOARD.

IF WE'RE AWARE OF ANYTHING GOING ON IN THE COUNTY, EVEN IF IT ISN'T A MUNICIPALITY OR TOWN INCORPORATED TOWN, THAT WE'RE STILL RESPONSIBLE TO REPORT THAT.

SO I KNOW THIS IS HAPPENING AT LEAST TWICE IN THE TOWN OF FEDERALSBURG, WHICH AGAIN, IS OUT OF OUR PURVIEW.

BUT THEY SAID THAT WE COULD REPORT THAT THAT WAS ONE OF THE REASONS WHY I REALLY WANT TO ADD THEM HERE, BECAUSE ADAM BEEN A PART OF THE INSPECTIONS AND HE'S AWARE OF IT, TOO. I ALSO HAVE THE SAME ISSUE GOING ON WITH THE GUY THAT ACTUALLY WIRED MY HOUSE THAT I JUST BOUGHT WAS WIRING THE HOUSE NEXT DOOR UNLICENSED, USING SOMEBODY ELSE'S LICENSE.

AND THAT'S WHERE THE WHOLE LICENSE FARMING COME IN. BECAUSE ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I'M

[License Farming]

AND IT'S COMPLETELY LAWFUL FOR THIS GUY TO HAVE THE BUSINESS, BECAUSE ANYBODY CAN START AN ELECTRICAL CONTRACTING BUSINESS. AS LONG AS YOU HAVE AN ELECTRICIAN THAT WORKS FOR YOU TO PULL THE PERMITS. BUT THERE'S NUMEROUS GUY THIS THIS ONE PARTICULAR GUY I THINK IS DOING IT FOR LIKE 2 OR 3 DIFFERENT PEOPLE.

AND HE'S GETTING READY TO GET BROUGHT UP AT THE STATE LEVEL. BUT I WANTED EVERYBODY HERE TO BE AWARE OF IT, BECAUSE THIS IS A PROBLEM THAT'S HAPPENING QUITE OFTEN HERE IN THE COUNTY. OKAY. I MAY HAVE HAD IT DONE TO ME.

I DON'T KNOW, BECAUSE I BELIEVE I THINK IT WAS ADAM THAT CONTACTED ME.

DID YOU DO NEXT JOB? AND I'M LIKE, NO, HE SAID, I DIDN'T THINK SO. IT DIDN'T LOOK LIKE SOMETHING YOU WOULD HAVE DONE. RIGHT. AND HE SAID, I'LL TAKE CARE OF IT.

SO I DON'T KNOW WHAT EVER HAPPENED OUT OF IT, BUT THERE'S BEEN A GRAY AREA BECAUSE WE HAVEN'T.

WE'VE HAD A LOT OF DISCUSSION AT THE STATE LEVEL ABOUT THIS WHOLE FARMING THING.

AND IT'S IT'S IT'S REALLY GRAY.

[00:05:02]

THE STATE SAYING, NO, YOU'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO DO IT, THAT YOU HAVE TO PULL THE PERMITS FOR YOUR WORK.

YOU HAVE TO BE OVERSEEING THE WORK.

AND THEY'RE DOING TOWNHOMES IN THE TOWN OF FEDERALSBURG.

THE COMPANY THAT'S DOING THEM IS OUT OF TEXAS.

THIS GUY THAT'S COMPLETELY UNLICENSED, IT'S GOT SOMEBODY PULLING THE PERMITS FOR HIM IS IN THERE WIRING THEM.

THEY BURN THEIR HOUSES DOWN.

YEAH, WELL, THE GUY WHO'S LICENSED THAT HE'S JUST PULLING A PERMIT FOR HIM DOESN'T HAVE INSURANCE, SO THAT'S EVEN BIGGER PROBLEM.

AND THAT'S THE SAME THING ADAM SAID. HE WAS LIKE, WELL, THAT'S EVEN BIGGER PROBLEM IF HE DOESN'T HAVE INSURANCE. ONE THING NOT BE LICENSED, BUT THEN HE DOESN'T HAVE INSURANCE.

SO WHAT DOES HAPPEN WHEN IT BURNS DOWN? WHO'S PAYING FOR THAT INSURANCE COMPANY? HOPEFULLY. IN OTHER WORDS, THE OWNER'S INSURANCE COMPANY, AND THEN THEY SEGREGATE AND GO AFTER THE BAD GUY AND SOMETHING LIKE THAT, PROBABLY. YOU CAN'T BANKRUPT OUT OF.

SO IF THEY GET A JUDGMENT AGAINST HIM, HE PROBABLY IS GOING TO LIVE WITH THAT AROUND HIS NECK THE REST OF HIS LIFE.

RIGHT. SO PLUS, YOU CAN BE PROSECUTED THEORETICALLY.

WELL THEY'RE STARTING I WILL SAY AT THE STATE LEVEL THEY'RE STARTING TO PROSECUTE PEOPLE.

THE STATE HAS BEEN VERY BACKLOGGED.

HONESTLY, OUR, OUR COMPLAINT COMMITTEE USUALLY MEETS AN HOUR BEFORE THE STATE BOARD MEETING. OUR LAST MEETING WE MET FOR THE HOUR.

HAD TO STOP TO START THE STATE BOARD MEETING AND THEN RECONVENE.

AND WE'RE IN IT FOR TWO MORE HOURS.

THERE WERE SO MANY COMPLAINTS AND.

THAT'S JUST WE'RE JUST SCRATCHING THE SURFACE OF IT.

BUT THEY ARE NOW STARTING TO GO AFTER THE UNLICENSED CONTRACTORS AND THE GUYS THERE, THEY'RE ACTUALLY FINDING THE GUYS WHO HAVE THE LICENSE THAT ARE PULLING THE PERMITS.

IT'S ALWAYS HAPPENED, BUT I DON'T THINK IT'S PROBABLY HAPPENED TO THE DEGREE THAT IT'S HAPPENING NOW.

YES. I THINK THE BIG ONE OF THE BIG THINGS I'VE NOTICED IS SINCE THE STATE HAS REQUIRED YOU TO HAVE A LICENSE, THESE JOURNEYMEN ARE GOING OUT THERE.

SO NOW I'VE GOT A LICENSE.

AND IF THEY IF THEY, AS A HOMEOWNER AND A HOMEOWNER SAYS, HEY, YOU GOT A LICENSE? YEAH, I GOT A LICENSE. THAT'S ALL THE HOMEOWNER KNOWS.

HE DOESN'T KNOW. THE GUY'S NOT A MASTER. HE JUST KNOWS THE GUY'S GOT A LICENSE. AND I THINK THAT'S A LOT OF WHAT'S HAPPENING. AND THEN IF I GOT TO DO SOMETHING THAT'S PERMITTED. WELL I GOT THIS GUY, YOU KNOW, FOR 100 BUCKS HE'LL PULL A PERMIT FOR ME. YEAH. BUT NOBODY'S OVERSEEING THE WORK.

AND I TALKED TO HIM. IT'S FUNNY BECAUSE THE GUY THAT WAS WIRING THE HOUSE NEXT DOOR TO MINE, HE STOPPED AND TALKED TO ME, AND HE JUST.

I EVEN TOLD HIM I WAS THE CHAIRMAN OF THE BOARD IN THE COUNTY.

I TOLD HIM I WAS ON THE STATE BOARD AND HE JUST KEPT RIGHT ON TELLING ME HOW HE DOESN'T HAVE A HE DOESN'T HAVE HIS JOURNEYMAN'S CARD.

IT EXPIRED. HIM AND HIS BROTHER ARE RUNNING THIS COMPANY AND THEY'RE USING THE GUY'S LICENSE. BARRY GROVES OUT OF CAMBRIDGE AND BARRY'S 81 WITH DEMENTIA.

GROVES ELECTRIC HADN'T BEEN IN BUSINESS FOR QUITE A FEW YEARS NOW, AND THEY'RE DOING HVAC AND ELECTRIC WITH BARRY'S LICENSE.

SO I SAID TO HIM, I SAID, OKAY, WELL, WHEN YOU GO GET YOUR JOURNEYMAN'S, WHO'S GOING TO SIGN OFF ON IT? BARRY'S GOT DEMENTIA.

HE DOESN'T KNOW YOU. HE DOESN'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE DOING. YOU'VE BEEN DOING THIS WORK ALL THIS TIME. UNDOCUMENTED.

WHO'S GOING TO SIGN OFF ON YOUR EXPERIENCE? BECAUSE YOU HAVE TO BE WORKING UNDER A MASTER. AND HE WAS LIKE DEER IN THE HEADLIGHTS, LIKE, CLUELESS, NOT WORRIED ABOUT IT.

THE SAME TIME HE WIRED HIS HOUSE AND DIDN'T PUT THE CAR CHARGER OUTLET IN,

[Electric Vehicle Car Charger]

AND I HAPPENED TO BE TALKING TO ADAM AGAIN, AND I SAID SOMETHING ABOUT IT AND I WAS LIKE, YOU KNOW WHAT? I DON'T THINK THAT HOUSE HAS ONE. SO I CALLED THE BUILDER, SAID, DO YOU HAVE A CAR CHARGER HERE? BECAUSE THEY WERE GETTING READY TO BUILD THIS HOUSE IN A WEEK OR SO. AND HE WAS LIKE, NO. HE'S LIKE, I DIDN'T KNOW HE NEEDED IT.

WELL, YOUR ELECTRICIAN SHOULD HAVE TOLD YOU BECAUSE ALL THE OTHER ELECTRICAL BOARDS HAVE SENT OUT. NOTICE THAT IT'S A STATE LAW.

YOU HAVE TO HAVE A CAR CHARGER. OUR NEW HOUSE, KALEIGH MEANS FOR IT TO BE THERE.

AND SO THAT'S A, THAT WAS A WHOLE NOTHER TOPIC.

AND THAT BUILDER WAS ACTUALLY GOING TO I, I INVITED HIM TO COME TODAY BUT HE DIDN'T I SAY HE DIDN'T MAKE IT BECAUSE THAT WAS ONE OF THE THINGS I TALKED TO CRYSTAL ON MONDAY.

AND IT KIND OF SLIPPED EVERYBODY'S MIND HERE TOO, THAT THAT THE BAD THING ABOUT THAT IS A STATE LAW.

IT'S NOT IN IBC, IT'S NOT IN THE NATIONAL ELECTRICAL CODE.

SO IT'S REAL EASY TO, TO MISS.

AND I KNOW YOU AND ADAM HAVE TALKED ABOUT IT.

IF YOU WANT TO KIND OF CHIME IN ON THAT.

ABOUT THE PLAN REVIEW.

AND YES, SO WE SHOULD BE CATCHING IT AT THE BUILDING PLAN REVIEW.

AND THEN WE SHOULD BE CATCHING IT AT THE BUILDING.

FINAL INSPECTION. RIGHT.

[00:10:01]

SHOULD WE BE LOOKING FOR DURING THE ELECTRICAL? RUFFIN, SIR, CAN YOU COME OVER, PLEASE? NO PROBLEM. THANK YOU.

THE LITTLE. YEAH. THERE YOU GO.

ALL RIGHT. EARL DEMPSEY FOR STATE INSPECTION AGENCY. YEAH.

SO IT'S IT'S YOU BRING UP THE VERY CONUNDRUM THAT WE HAVE.

IT'S NOT PART OF THE NECK.

IT'S NOT PART OF THE THE ERC.

SO WHEN DOES IT GET LOOKED AT? SO IT'S SHOULD BE VIEWED AS PART OF THE BUILDING CODE FOR MARYLAND.

AND WE SHOULD BE LOOKING AT IT DURING THE PLAN REVIEW. AND MAKING SURE THAT IT'S NOTATED THERE. AND THEN SHOULD BE PART OF THE BUILDING INSPECTIONS.

THE FINAL INSPECTION. YOU KNOW, WE'RE BACK AND FORTH ON WHETHER IT SHOULD BE LOOKED AT DURING THE ELECTRICAL INSPECTION BECAUSE AGAIN, WE'RE EVERYTHING IS ACCORDING TO THE NECK AND IT'S NOT PART OF THE NECK.

RIGHT. SO CATCHING IT, THE BUILDING FINAL.

IF IT'S NOT THERE, THAT CAN BE PROBLEMATIC BECAUSE NOW YOU'VE GOT TO CUT THROUGH DRYWALL AND GET THROUGH IT. SO BUT THOSE ARE THE TWO REAL TOUCH POINTS THAT WE'VE WE'VE DISCUSSED.

RIGHT. AND IT'S ADAM AND I, WE'VE DISCUSSED THIS BACK AND FORTH, BACK AND FORTH. IT'S LIKE SMOKE DETECTORS.

SMOKE DETECTORS IN RESIDENCE ARE NOT REQUIRED BY NATIONAL ELECTRICAL CODE.

WHEN WE INSTALL THEM, YOU KNOW, OUR WIRING FOR IT, IT GETS INSPECTED. BUT WE CAN'T FAIL ELECTRICAL INSPECTION FOR NOT HAVING SMOKE DETECTORS. BOBBY, YOU'RE GOING TO FAIL YOUR BUILDING INSPECTION BECAUSE YOU DON'T HAVE SMOKE DETECTORS. CORRECT.

YEAH. YOU FAIL. YOU'RE DOING IT LONG ENOUGH.

YOU KNOW YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO HAVE YOUR ELECTRICITY, BUT YOU'LL FAIL YOUR ELECTRICITY. ALL GOT TO GO OFF IN TIME.

BUT THIS IS THIS IS THE PROBLEM WITH THE CAR CHARGERS RIGHT NOW. YOU'LL FAIL YOUR ELECTRICAL INSPECTION IF YOU'VE DONE THOSE INAPPROPRIATELY. CORRECT. BUT NOT IF YOU HAVEN'T DONE IT. IF YOU HAVEN'T DONE THEM AT ALL. NO. AND WITH THE CAR CHARGER, IT ONLY HAS TO PROVIDE MEANS TO GET ONE THERE.

EITHER OR. CORRECT. IT'S EITHER GOT TO HAVE IT NOW OR THE MEANS TO HAVE IT LATER.

NOW THE 40 AMP DEAL KIND OF GETS ME BECAUSE THERE IS NO 40 AMP OUTLET.

YEAH, YOU HAVE TO USE THE 50 AMP OUTLET.

YEAH. THAT'S WHAT BASICALLY THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE GOING WITH THE MIDWEST 50 AMP.

WELL BASICALLY RV PLUG.

YEAH. YEAH. AND THEY'RE GOING GOING LIKE HOTCAKES RIGHT NOW BECAUSE I CALLED A SUPPLIER BECAUSE I NEEDED ONE FOR A JOB.

I ACTUALLY NEEDED FOUR.

AND HE'S LIKE, YEAH, THAT'S WHAT HE SAID.

THIS IS THE ONES WE STOPPED.

HE'S LIKE, YEAH, WE GOT PLENTY OF THEM. OH WAIT A MINUTE. NO WE DON'T.

THEY'RE COMING IN IN A WEEK OR SO.

I'M LIKE EVERYBODY'S. EVERYBODY'S STARTING TO GET DINGED ON IT NOW BECAUSE ALL THE JURISDICTIONS ARE STARTING TO CATCH UP BECAUSE, LIKE I SAY, IT'S NOT A CODE, IT'S A LAW.

SO IT'S. WE'VE HAD A DISCUSSION ABOUT WHO'S RESPONSIBLE FOR ENFORCING THAT.

THE STATE'S GOING TO SAY US.

THE STATE'S RESPONSE TO ANYTHING IS THE LOCAL JURISDICTIONS NEED TO TAKE CARE OF THAT AND REPORT BACK TO US. NOW, TO WHAT EXTENT DO YOU HAVE TO HAVE SHOWN THAT YOU GOT, YOU KNOW, THAT THEY CAN HAVE IT THERE? I MEAN, DOES IT HAVE TO HAVE THAT PLUG ON IT THEN, NOW, OR JUST HAVE A WIRE PULLED SOMEWHERE THAT CAN BE PICKED UP WIRE? IT'S GOT TO BE IN CONDUIT.

WELL, YOU CAN PULL WIRE.

YOU CAN YOU CAN PULL WIRE.

IF YOU DO THE WHOLE THING, YOU'RE DONE. BUT YOU HAVE TO.

BUT YOU CAN RUN A CONDUIT.

FROM WHAT I UNDERSTAND, YOU CAN RUN A CONDUIT FROM THE PANEL TO A JUNCTION BOX. SO YOU HAVE THE CAPABILITY TO HAVE THE BREAKER IN THERE. SO IF I'M PUTTING AN OUTLET THERE, I COULD RUN AN ESSER CABLE TO IT OR A ROMEX SIX THREE OR WHATEVER.

THAT'S THE WAY I UNDERSTAND IT.

I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S BEING ENFORCED ANY DIFFERENT.

THAT WOULD BE A QUESTION FOR BECAUSE INITIALLY ADAM SAID THE WAY TO GET AROUND IT WAS JUST MOUNT A LITTLE TWO CIRCUIT DISCONNECT.

IN THE AREA. AND YOU CAN RUN A WIRE TO THAT.

RIGHT. THEN YOU JUST LET YOUR OUTLET RIGHT TILL YOU DISCONNECT.

IT'S IN CONDUIT, RIGHT? IT DOESN'T SAY ANYTHING ABOUT THE. I HAD TO LOOK AT THE WORDING ON THAT. WHAT IT SAYS IN THERE. I KNEW WE BECAUSE ADAM WAS TALKING SOMETHING ABOUT THAT.

BECAUSE HIM AND GRANT AT MIDDLE DEPARTMENT HAD SOME DISCUSSION BACK AND FORTH ABOUT WHAT'S GOING TO BE THE STANDARD AROUND HERE. WHAT ARE WE GOING TO WHAT ARE WE GOING TO REQUIRE? I MEAN, TO ME, IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE TO HAVE TO PUT IT IN CONDUIT WHEN NOTHING ELSE, NOTHING ELSE.

RESIDENTIAL HAS TO BE IN CONDUIT.

RIGHT. YEAH. AND UNFORTUNATELY, I'M NOT AN ELECTRICIAN.

I'M NOT TECHNICAL IN NATURE.

TO BE ABLE TO ANSWER THAT, WE WOULD NEED ADAM OR ONE OF MY ONE OF MY ELECTRICAL GUYS TO DO THAT.

BUT, I MEAN, I CAN FOLLOW UP WITH ADAM.

IT'S SOMETHING YOU NEED TO FIGURE OUT SOON. AND I HAVE CUSTOMERS SAY I DON'T WANT IT.

I KNOW, AND YOU GOT TO SAY, IT DOESN'T MATTER.

YOU HAVE TO HAVE IT. YEAH, BUT IF IF IT CAN BE,

[00:15:02]

EVEN IF YOU DON'T WANT THE RECEPTACLE, I MEAN, IT'S STILL AN EXPENSE.

AND THAT'S WHAT PEOPLE ARE WORRIED ABOUT IS THAT EXTRA EXPENSE. BUT THE WHOLE PROBLEM WITH THE WHOLE PROBLEM WITH THE WITH IT BEING THE LAW IS THAT THERE IS NO CODE.

AND IT SAYS AND IT MENTIONS, I DON'T KNOW, IT MENTIONS LEVEL TWO CAR CHARGERS AND THIS, THAT AND THE OTHER. BUT THESE CAR CHARGERS ARE ALL DIFFERENT.

THEY'RE NOT ALL THE SAME.

AND YOU CAN HAVE THE SAME PROBLEM THAT YOU HAVE WITH A WATER HEATER.

YOU KNOW, YOU PUT YOUR 30 AMP, TWO 40 VOLT CIRCUIT IN FOR A WATER HEATER, WHICH IS NORMAL THE WAY WE'VE ALWAYS DONE, BUT THE GUY GOES OUT AND ENDS UP BUYING AN INSTANT HOT WATER HEATER. IT'S 150 AMPS, AND I KNOW OF INSTANCES WHERE THEY'VE DISCONNECTED. HOMEOWNERS DISCONNECTED THAT 30 AMP CIRCUIT AND HOOKED IT UP TO THAT 150 AMP WATER HEATER AND FRIED IT.

EVERYTHING CAUGHT FIRE.

YEAH. DO YOU HOOK UP A TESLA CHARGER COMES FROM TESLA.

IT'S 48 AMPS, RIGHT? 48 CIRCUITS.

WORTHLESS. AND AND THE NATIONAL ELECTRICAL CODE SAYS YOU HAVE TO IF YOU HAVE TO BE ON YOUR BREAKER HAS TO BE 125%.

SO YOUR 40 AMP BREAKER IS NOT ACTUALLY BIG ENOUGH TO DO WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE.

BECAUSE THAT'S OFF A SMALL CHARGER. IT'S ANOTHER WELL THOUGHT OUT PLAN.

BUT IT'S JUST SOMETHING I YOU KNOW I WANTED TO BRING THAT TO THE COUNTY'S ATTENTION TO YOU KNOW MAYBE THE PLAN REVIEW.

THAT'S WHEN YOU MAKE NOTE ON IT THAT IT HAS TO BE CAR CHARGER OUTLET.

SO THAT WAY AT LEAST THE COUNTY'S DONE THEIR PART, BECAUSE RIGHT NOW YOU'RE GOING TO GET A LOT OF I DIDN'T KNOW I NEEDED IT. WHY ARE YOU TELLING ME NOW IN THE FINAL? I NEED TO TURN THIS HOUSE OVER TOMORROW. SO YOU SAID YOU DISCUSSED IT WITH THE COUNTY? WITH THE PLANNING AND CODES? NO.

THAT'S WHY. THAT'S WHY WE'RE HERE TODAY. TO TALK ABOUT THAT.

OKAY. I WANTED TO BRING THAT UP.

THAT'S ONE OF THE THINGS I WANTED YOU OR ADAM TO BE HERE ABOUT.

I WAS REALLY HOPING ADAM COULD BE HERE, BECAUSE HE COULD SHED SOME LIGHT ON SOME THINGS THAT HE'S SEEN WITH, WITH THIS LICENSE FARMING.

AND HE'S UNLICENSED GUYS.

AND, YOU KNOW, I WANTED TO KNOW THE BOARD'S THOUGHTS.

WHEN WE KNOW THIS IS GOING ON AND WE HAVE INSTANCES ABOUT GETTING EVEN GETTING THEM IN FRONT OF US AND TAKING ACTION AND OR TAKE, TAKE, BRING THEM IN HERE AND THEN JUST FORWARD IT TO THE STATE.

IF WE DON'T TAKE ACTION OR THE COMPLAINT TO THE STATE, WE GOT TO HAVE SOME KIND OF PROCESS OF I DON'T THINK YOU COULD STOP SOMEBODY FROM CALLING FARMING OUT THE LICENSE.

AS LONG AS THEY'RE SUPERVISING THE JOB, AS LONG AS THEY'RE SUPERVISING THE JOBS.

ONE THING THAT'S. BUT IN THESE CASES, THEY'RE NOT.

YEAH. AND PROBABLY WON'T BE IN MOST CASES, FOR INSTANCE, ONE OF THE ONES IN THE STATE, ONE OF THE.

YEAH. WHEN YOU PULL A PERMIT, I MEAN, YOU GOTTA LOOK AT THE LICENSE. THE LICENSE HAS INSURED TO WORK.

YEAH. WHICH ALL OF OUR LICENSES SAY INSURED TO WORK.

RIGHT. YEAH. AND THAT THEY CAN'T PULL A PERMIT.

AND THAT WAS, THAT WAS BRINGS UP ANOTHER GOOD TOPIC, BECAUSE AT ONE POINT, THE BOARD HAD VOTED TO NOT HAVE REGISTRATIONS FOR ELECTRICIANS IN THE COUNTY BECAUSE YOU HAVE TO HAVE YOUR STATE LICENSE.

THIS WOULD BE ESPECIALLY AN INSURANCE WOULD BE A REAL GOOD VERIFICATION TO HAVE THE COUNTY HAVE A CERTIFICATE OF INSURANCE FROM THAT GUY THAT THAT TELLS THE COUNTY THAT HE'S LICENSED, AND THAT'S ON FILE FOR WHEN HE PULLS HIS PERMIT.

LIKE, IF YOU GOT A STATE LICENSE, YOU CAN'T GET IT WITHOUT INSURANCE.

YEAH, BUT SUPPOSEDLY. BUT SUPPOSEDLY.

WELL, YOU CAN, BUT THERE'S THERE'S INSURANCE WORK AND THEY'RE NOT INSURED. YES.

AND IN THIS CASE, THIS ONE GUY HAS A STATE MASTER'S LICENSE AND HE WAS NOT INSURED.

AND IT SAYS NOT INSURED.

THEN THEY SHOULD THEY SHOULDN'T BE ISSUING A PERMIT IF IT'S NOT TRUE. CORRECT.

BUT WHO'S CHECKING THAT THE COUNTY SHOULD CHECK IT? RIGHT. OR. OR THE INCORPORATED TOWN SHOULD BE CHECKED.

BECAUSE IN THE CASE OF THE FEDERALSBURG, WITH THAT BEING AN INCORPORATED TOWN DOESN'T FALL UNDER COUNTY. RIGHT. COUNTY DOESN'T YOU DON'T GET A PERMIT FROM THE COUNTY.

CORRECT. BUT DO THOSE PERMITS GO STRAIGHT TO YOU GUYS? YES. DOES IT GO THROUGH TOWN.

SO THEY GO STRAIGHT TO MDE.

SO IS FEDERALSBURG. SO MOST MUNICIPALITIES WILL ISSUE THEIR OWN PERMITS, AND THEN THOSE WILL COME TO US.

AND THEN WE WILL ONLY SCHEDULE IF WE KNOW THERE'S BEEN A PERMIT ISSUE.

FEDERALSBURG ITSELF IS THE ONE ANOMALY THAT WE DEAL WITH ON THE EASTERN SHORE THAT THEY DO NOT ISSUE ELECTRICAL OR PLUMBING PERMITS EITHER, AND NEITHER DOES RIDGELY.

THEY GO STRAIGHT TO MBIA.

YEAH. SO THERE IS NO PERMIT.

THERE'S JUST SIMPLY AN INSPECTION FOR INSPECTION.

BECAUSE I HAD AN ARGUMENT WITH THE TOWN FOR, EXCUSE ME, YOUR OFFICE AND SAID YOU NEED A PERMIT.

[00:20:01]

THEY DON'T ISSUE A PERMIT.

THEN YOU CALL THE TOWN. AND THEY WERE LIKE, YEAH, YEAH, YOU NEED A PERMIT.

I'M LIKE, OKAY, WELL, GIVE ME THE FORM.

WELL, AND THEN THEY GIVE ME YOUR FORM AND I'M LIKE, WELL, THAT'S NOT A PERMIT.

THAT'S AN INSPECTION. THERE'S A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A PERMIT AND AN INSPECTION.

TWO DIFFERENT THINGS. I HAD IT OUT WITH THE TOWN OVER THAT.

I THINK THEY'VE GOT THAT STRAIGHT NOW BECAUSE THEY'RE TELLING OTHER PEOPLE THEY NEEDED A PERMIT, AND THEN THEY WERE CHARGING PEOPLE $150 TO GET A BUILDING PERMIT FOR ELECTRICAL.

AND IT WAS JUST ALL THEY GOT A WHOLE BUNCH OF ISSUES IN THAT TOWN.

ANYHOW, THAT'S NEITHER HERE NOR THERE.

BUT YOU KNOW, I THINK PERSONALLY, I THINK WE SHOULD HAVE A REGISTRATION SO WE

[Proposed Electrician Registrations/Permits]

YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE TO GIVE THEM A CERTIFICATE OF INSURANCE. AT LEAST THAT WAY, YOU KNOW, THE GUY, IF HE'S GOT IF HE'S GOING TO PULL A PERMIT, AT LEAST YOU KNOW HE'S INSURED. I'M NOT REQUIRING IT ANYMORE, ARE THEY? YEAH. YEAH. WE JUST HAVE TO RENEW OUR LICENSE.

I CAN'T REMEMBER. YEAH. THE REGISTRATION.

YEAH. WHEN I, WHEN I GOT MY REGISTRATION IN.

BUT I HAVE GIVEN THEM A CERTIFICATE OF INSURANCE.

EVERY COUNTY OUT THERE SO FAR IN THE STATE OF MARYLAND.

I'VE HAD TO DO THAT EXCEPT FOR CAROLINA.

I KNOW WE JUST HAD THE SAME QUEEN ANNE'S A COUPLE WEEKS AGO.

AND FOR THE RECORD, THE STATE IS STILL ON THE 2017 CODE LIKE THE NATIONAL ELECTRICAL CODE, I WATCHED QUEEN MS AND SOMEBODY ELSE'S QUEEN ANNE'S KENT ON 23.

KENT COMMISSIONERS WOULD NOT. THEY WENT TO 23 WITH US ABOUT ON STATE MANDATED.

I DON'T KNOW HOW THEY DO THAT, BUT I GUESS IT CAN BE BETTER, BUT NOT WORSE.

RIGHT, EXACTLY. I THINK THERE'S A THERE'S AN ISSUE ABOUT BECAUSE I KNOW WE RAN INTO BIDDING ONE WHERE WE HAD TO HAVE THE DISCONNECTS.

QUEEN ANNE'S COUNTY? YEP.

THE STATE. DO YOU HAVE THE STATE LICENSE? OTHER PLACES WE DIDN'T.

RIGHT, EXACTLY. RIGHT NOW THEY'RE GOING TO ON THIS SIDE THAT THE COUNTY CAN JUST SAY YOU GOT TO BE REGISTERED. IF THE PERSON'S GOT A STATE LICENSE, IS WHAT I'M SAYING. LIKE, OH, YOU'RE NOT REGISTERED TO DO BUSINESS IN OUR COUNTY. WELL, I DON'T NEED TO BE REGISTERED TO DO BUSINESS IN YOUR COUNTY.

I HAVE A STATE LICENSE.

BUT THE STATE SAYS YOU CAN DO IT.

I MIGHT HAVE BEEN JUST SCARCE RESOURCES THAT THAT DECISION WAS MADE, BUT. THE STATE LOOKS TO US TO TO AGAIN.

AND I'VE ASKED THESE QUESTIONS IN THE STATE MEETINGS AND THEY'VE TOLD US THAT THEY LOOK FOR US TO POLICE IT IN OUR JURISDICTION AND REPORT BACK TO THEM.

WELL, TO POLICE IT, YOU HAVE TO HAVE LEGAL AUTHORITY TO, TO ENFORCE A PENALTY. AND YOU CAN YOU CAN ENFORCE A PENALTY, YOU CAN DENY A PERMIT.

WHAT'S THE PURPOSE OF HAVING A MASTER'S LICENSE IN THE STATE? IF PEOPLE CAN WALK AROUND, DO WHATEVER THEY WANT? WELL, THAT'S WHAT I TOLD HIM AT THE LAST MEETING.

AT THE COMPLAINTS MEETING, THERE'S THERE'S LAWYERS IN THIS TOWN THAT HAVE KIDS THAT ARE DOING HVAC, THAT ARE BEING FARMED OUT LICENSES THROUGH A GUY IN DELAWARE. I MEAN, I THAT GETS EVERYBODY OFF OF DUIS.

I. I TOLD THE IN THE STATE AND.

I THOUGHT ABOUT IT WHEN YOU SAID A LAWYER OR SOMETHING IN IN THE STATE IN THE STATE MEETING COMPLAINT MEETING LAST MONTH, I ASKED HIM WHY SHOULD I GET A MASTER'S LICENSE IF YOU'RE NOT GOING TO DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT OR YOU'RE JUST GOING TO FIND THEM $1,500, BECAUSE I CAN BUILD $1,500 IN MY JOB.

SO IF I GET CAUGHT, I PAY $1,500 AND I KEEP ON ROLLING, BUT THEN I DON'T HAVE TO HAVE INSURANCE, I DON'T HAVE TO HAVE A LICENSE. I DON'T HAVE TO HAVE NONE OF THAT. YEAH.

AND THEY WERE LIKE, YEAH, THAT'S A GOOD POINT. WE PAID 4500 BUCKS A MONTH FOR INSURANCE. THEY'RE THE FIRST ONES TO GET THEIR MONEY RIGHT.

SO. THAT'S WHY THE STATE'S STARTING NOW STARTING TO GO AFTER IT.

AND THE ONE CASE I WAS TALKING ABOUT WHEN WE WERE TALKING ABOUT THE WHOLE FARMING LICENSE GUY THAT WITH THE MASTER'S LICENSE LIVED IN GEORGIA. HE WAS 72 YEARS OLD.

HE HAD BEEN HERE IN, LIKE FIVE YEARS.

THESE GUYS ARE PULLING PERMITS BECAUSE HE SAYS THEY'RE JUST USING HIS LICENSE.

AND FOR 50 BUCKS, YOU CAN GET A PERMIT.

BUT THIS GUY'S LICENSE.

SO THAT'S A PRETTY GOOD RETIREMENT PLAN.

YEAH. ALTERNATIVELY, INSTEAD OF GOING BACK TO THE REGISTRATION PROCESS, YOU COULD RECOMMEND THAT WITH EVERY PERMIT THAT THEY REQUIRE SUBMISSION OF VALID LICENSE AND VALID INSURANCE. WELL THAT'S WHAT WE DID WHEN,

[00:25:03]

COUNTY LICENSE. THE COUNTY ALREADY HAD ALL THAT STUFF.

RIGHT. YEAH. YOU DID IT ONE TIME INSTEAD OF EACH TIME YOU CAME IN.

I'D RATHER DO IT AT LEAST ONCE AND DO IT EVERY TIME YOU HAVE TO COME IN.

YEAH. AND WE HAVEN'T GONE BEFORE THE COMMISSIONERS WITH IT AT THIS POINT.

SO IF WE WANT TO CHANGE THAT.

DECISION FROM PROBABLY.

WHAT'S THAT? TWO YEARS AGO? AT LEAST IT SEEMS THAT WAY.

I MEAN, NOW WOULD BE THE TIME TO DO IT BEFORE WE GO BEFORE THE COMMISSIONERS THAT DON'T EVEN REQUIRE A LICENSE FOR HBC.

YEAH, WELL, HOPEFULLY WE'RE WORKING ON SOME OF THAT STUFF SOON.

YES, EXACTLY. THAT'S THE.

THAT'S THE IDEA, ANYHOW.

YEAH. THE ELECTION COMING UP HERE SOON, DON'T WE? NEXT YEAR ON THE BACK BURNER.

I BELIEVE WE'RE ON THE TEN YEAR PLAN FOR THAT LICENSE, THOUGH. IT'S BEEN GOING WELL.

YOU FORGET ABOUT YOU'RE GETTING CLOSE TO THE TEN YEAR MARK, THEN. YEAH, 10 OR 15. IT MIGHT BE 15, I DON'T KNOW.

I HAVE BEEN TOLD WE'RE SUPPOSED TO TO GO BEFORE THE COMMISSIONER SOON.

I DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT MEANS IN THE NEXT MONTH OR SO, HOPEFULLY. BUT I'D LIKE TO BE ABLE TO GO BEFORE THEM AND HAVE EVERYTHING AND GET ONE SHOT AND BE DONE.

I'VE BEEN ALL FOR THE REGISTRATIONS ALL ALONG.

I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT BECAUSE AT THIS POINT YOU DON'T KNOW AND IT MIGHT CATCH SOME OF THIS LICENSE FARMING AND WHAT IN WORCESTER COUNTY AT ONE TIME THEY WERE MAKING YOU COME IN PERSONALLY AND SHOW YOUR LICENSE TO PULL PERMIT.

YOU COULDN'T YOU COULDN'T FILE IT ANY OTHER WAY BUT IN PERSON.

SO THAT'S THE ONLY WAY THEY COULD STOP IT.

IT'S THE ONLY WAY YOU CAN GUARANTEE IT THAT YOU ARE A LICENSE HOLDER.

JUST ONE MORE TRIP TO PERMITS OFFICE.

AND BUT. AND AS A BUSINESS OWNER, THAT WORKS IN A LOT OF COUNTIES THROUGHOUT THE STATE OF MARYLAND, THAT'S NOT THAT'S NOT COOL FOR ME.

I DON'T WANT TO DO THAT.

BUT I DON'T LIKE THE REGISTRATION.

BUT I BELIEVE IT'S NECESSARY.

I THINK SO, TOO. YOU KNOW, I THINK IT IS TOO.

I MEAN, HONESTLY, THAT'S THE ONE WAY THAT YOU CAN ENSURE THAT THEY DO HAVE INSURANCE AND THAT THEY ARE LICENSED.

THAT WOULD BE THE MAIN THING.

PLUS, IT ALSO GIVES YOU A LIST THAT IF SOMETHING LIKE THE CAR CHARGER THING COMES UP OR YOU KNOW, THE BOARD DECIDES TO ENACT SOMETHING THAT'S UP AND ABOVE WHAT'S IN THE CODE. THAT WAY, YOU HAVE A WHOLE LIST OF PEOPLE YOU CAN REACH OUT AT ONE TIME.

YOU KNOW, BECAUSE I KNOW I GOT I GOT NOTIFICATIONS FROM A HANDFUL OF COUNTIES ABOUT THE WHOLE CAR CHARGER DEAL WHEN THAT FIRST CAME ABOUT.

BUT THAT WAS THAT WAS USEFUL BECAUSE AT THAT POINT I DIDN'T KNOW 100% WHAT WAS, BUT IT MADE ME GO LOOK AT IT.

WHAT IS THIS? YOU KNOW WHAT? WHAT'S GOING ON WITH THIS WHEN YOU DON'T KNOW? AND THEN YOU GET I LIKE WHAT THE INSURANCE DEAL LIKE, LEVI SAID. THE COST OF THE LICENSING IS INCREASING.

AND LIKE WITH ELECTRICAL YOU GOT TO HAVE TEN HOURS OF CONTINUING EDUCATION BETWEEN LICENSE PERIOD. THAT'S NOT SUCH A BIG DEAL.

BUT THE COST OF THAT INSURANCE IS UP THERE.

IT'S HIGH. YEAH. I MEAN LICENSED STATE LICENSE IS WHAT $25.20 $5.

IT'S. OH GOD. IT'S NOT MUCH NOW.

I THINK IT'S $25 DOWN PRETTY GOOD NOW.

THE STATE LICENSE IS ACTUALLY CHEAPER THAN MOST COUNTIES REGISTRATIONS.

YEAH. I THINK IT'S LIKE $25, BUT THE INSURANCE IS UP THERE.

AND IF YOU GOT SOMEBODY WITH NO INSURANCE, YOU KNOW, NATURALLY HE'S GOING TO BE ABLE TO DO THE JOB CHEAPER. AND THAT'S THE WHOLE THING TOO, WITH THE CONTINUING EDUCATION.

WITH THE CONTINUING EDUCATION.

THIS ELECT, THIS ELECTRICIAN THAT WAS WIRING THE HOUSE NEXT DOOR TO ME WOULD HAVE KNOWN ABOUT THE CAR CHARGING OUTLET IF HE'D DONE CONTINUING EDUCATION.

BUT HE WASN'T EVEN A REGISTERED JOURNEYMAN.

SO HE'S NOT DOING ANY OF THAT STUFF BECAUSE I MIGHT HAVE TO DO THAT, BUT HE COULD HAVE KNOWN THAT. NEEDLESS TO SAY, PART OF THAT GOTTEN HIM NOT DOING THE NEXT JOB BECAUSE THE BUILDER'S AWARE OF IT ALL.

PLUS IT'S COSTING THE BUILDER, COSTING THE BUILDER TIME.

INSPECTION FAILED AGAIN YESTERDAY. FOR THE SECOND TIME FOR A FINAL.

SO ON THE HOUSE THAT WAS SUPPOSED TO TURN OVER FRIDAY.

SUPPOSED TO CLOSE ON FRIDAY.

SOMEBODY'S NOT HAPPY. YES.

[00:30:03]

[Motion to Adopt a Registration or Permit Process for Electricians]

YOU COME IN ONCE A YEAR.

HERE'S MY INSURANCE. THERE'S A LICENSE.

WELL, FOR TWO YEARS. MAKE A MOTION.

I MAKE A MOTION. OKAY. GOT A MOTION.

I'LL SECOND. SECOND. ALL IN FAVOR? AYE. MOTION CARRIES. OKAY, SO THE TAKEAWAY FROM THIS IS THAT YOU GUYS PREFER A TWO YEAR REGISTRATION PROCESS.

YES. A VALID DRIVER'S LICENSE AND A LICENSE OF YOUR TRADE.

YOUR AND YOUR CERTIFICATE OF INSURANCE. YEAH.

MADE OUT TO THE COUNTY.

MOST OF THE CERTIFICATES ARE ONLY, YOU KNOW, FOR A ONE YEAR POLICY THAT'S IN EFFECT FROM THIS DATE TO THAT DATE.

SO EVEN IF THEY DON'T HAVE TO TECHNICALLY RENEW AFTER THE FIRST YEAR, THEY SHOULD FILE ANOTHER CERTIFICATE OF INSURANCE.

YEAH. USUALLY INSURANCE COMPANIES LIKE MY INSURANCE COMPANY WHEN MINE RENEWS DECEMBER 24TH OR WHATEVER IT IS, 20, IT'S AROUND THE 20TH BECAUSE STARTING IN NOVEMBER I START GETTING NOTIFICATIONS FROM EVERYBODY. YOUR YOUR CERTIFICATES GETTING EXPIRED. YEAH, I KNOW IT RENEWS IN DECEMBER.

THEY'LL SEND OUT A WHOLE LIST OF THEM.

I THINK IT WAS TALBOT COUNTY THAT YOUR LICENSE IS STILL GOOD, BUT YOU GO FILE FOR A PERMIT.

OF COURSE YOU HAVE TO DO EVERYTHING ONLINE. YOU CAN'T EVEN WALK INTO PERMITS OFFICE AND GET ONE, WHICH I DON'T AGREE WITH, BUT.

BUT THEY'LL GET BACK IN TOUCH WITH YOU.

YEAH. YOUR INSURANCE HAS EXPIRED.

YOU MUST RENEW IT BEFORE YOU CAN GET YOUR PERMIT.

YEAH, THEY FLAG IT, THEN THEY DO.

THEY DO WATCH THAT. I MOST DON'T, BUT THEY DO BECAUSE THAT'S USUALLY WHAT HAPPENS TOO. IF THEY DON'T. IF THEY DON'T HAVE IT, I HAVEN'T SENT IT TO THEM. I GO TO PULL A PERMIT AND I CAN GET IT IN AN HOUR FROM MY AGENT.

I THINK IT'S A GOOD THING.

SO ERIC AND STEWART, DOES THIS HAVE TO BE PRESENTED TO THE COMMISSIONERS FOR APPROVAL? YES. YES, THAT'S WHAT I HAD TO GO.

OKAY. AND STEWART, IS THIS A REGULATION THAT WE NEED TO GET DRAWN UP? TO BE READY TO BE PRESENTED.

IT CAN'T BE ME THAT DRAWS IT UP AT THIS MOMENT, BECAUSE I HAVEN'T BEEN DIRECTED TO DO SO BY THE COUNTY COMMISSIONERS. OKAY.

BUT I CAN BE SITTING THERE WITH THE COUNTY COMMISSIONERS WHEN YOU GUYS MAKE YOUR PRESENTATION. AND IF THEY LIKE THE CONCEPT OF IT, THEY WOULD DIRECT ME, RIGHT, TO DO A DRAFT OF IT.

BASICALLY, WE'LL GO FROM THE COUNTY COMMISSIONERS AND SAY THIS IS OUR FINDINGS.

THIS IS WHAT WE WOULD LIKE.

OKAY. BECAUSE THAT'S KIND OF KIND OF GET INCORPORATED WITH EVERYTHING THAT HE KNOWS COMING IN NOW. BUT GETTING ALL THE WORDS LICENSED OUT AND ALL THAT.

DO DO WE NEED TO ASK GENEVA OR STAFF TO HAVE US THINGS SHOWING THAT OTHER COUNTIES ARE

[Research Other Counties Electrician Reg Process]

SO HONESTLY, WE DON'T WANT THE COMMISSIONERS THINK WE'RE THE ONLY ONES TRYING TO DO THIS THAT WE ARE. WE'RE NOT TRYING TO BE MORE STRINGENT THAN.

RIGHT, RIGHT. I SEE WHAT YOU'RE SAYING.

AND. YEAH, I MEAN THAT ACTUALLY SOME WRITTEN PROOF SHOWING THAT AT LEAST TALBOT, DORCHESTER AND QUEEN ANNE'S ARE FOLLOWED.

THE SAME SUIT WOULD WOULD HELP US, I BELIEVE IN YEAH.

IT PUTS US RIGHT IN THERE WITH WITH WITH THOSE COUNTIES.

YES. WITH OUR NEIGHBORING COUNTIES. THIS IS THE COUNTY PARALEGAL OVER HERE.

KIM RAEDER. AND SHE IS HAPPY TO PULL THOSE OTHER COUNTY'S REGS SO THAT WE HAVE THOSE WHEN YOU GUYS SHOW UP ON THE AGENDA.

OKAY. YEAH, THAT WOULD BE GREAT. YEAH. NO PROBLEM.

JUST IN CASE THEY ASK FOR IT.

OKAY. CAN I GET THAT BEFOREHAND SO WE CAN LOOK AT IT? YES, DEFINITELY. AND I HAVE ALL OF YOUR EMAIL ADDRESSES BECAUSE OF THE INVITE FROM TODAY.

[Penalty & Fees Discussion]

BUT WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO IF WE KNOW OF THESE UNLICENSED? I DON'T KNOW THAT. AND I MIGHT REFER THIS TO STEWART.

I DON'T KNOW THAT THE COUNTY HAS, OTHER THAN NOT ISSUING, SAYING, SORRY, YOU'RE NOT GETTING THIS PERMIT.

BUT I WOULD THINK THAT WE REFER IT TO THE STATE BOARD.

WE REFER THE INCIDENTS, EVERYTHING ABOUT IT THAT WE HAVE TO THE STATE BOARD. THEY'RE THE ONES THAT HAVE THE ABILITY TO EITHER PULL A LICENSE OR PUT HAVE SOMEBODY BROUGHT IN FROM. WE DON'T HAVE ANY.

AS FAR AS I WOULD KNOW. WE DON'T HAVE ANY JURISDICTION IN THAT RIGHT NOW OTHER THAN

[00:35:03]

WE'RE NOT ISSUING YOU A PERMIT.

THAT, IN EFFECT, CUTS THE MAJORITY OF STUFF OUT.

YES, IT WOULD RIGHT THERE.

IT WOULD CATCH EVERYBODY, BUT IT WOULD CATCH THE MAJORITY.

RIGHT. BUT WITH THAT BEING SAID, I KIND OF SOMEWHAT ON THE RIGHT TRACK WITH THAT. WITH THAT BEING SAID THOUGH, MIKE, IF THERE IF THERE IS AN INCIDENT THAT WE KNOW OF, WHETHER SOMEBODY REPORTS IT TO ONE OF US OR WE FOUND IT OURSELVES, SHOULDN'T WE HAVE SOME KIND OF DUE PROCESS WHERE WE HAVE TO MEET AND DISCUSS IT? OH YES, I DEFINITELY AGREE.

YES, WE NEED TO DISCUSS IT BECAUSE I THINK AS A BOARD WE NEED TO BE TAKE A VOTE AND IN A MAJORITY SAY YES. WE AGREE THAT WE NEED TO PRESENT THIS TO THE STATE OR EVEN IF IT'S SEVERE ENOUGH, I DON'T KNOW IF WE WOULD BE ALLOWED TO, BUT AND THAT WOULD BE SOMETHING.

ONCE AGAIN, STEWART WOULD ANSWER FOR US.

BETTER ASK YOU SOME KIND OF PENALTY FOR IT.

ASK THAT PERSON TO COME BEFORE US AND SAY, HEY, WE KNOW THAT THIS IS HAPPENING.

WE WANT TO KNOW WHY YOU'RE DOING SUCH A THING.

AND WE ARE. WE ARE SENDING ALL OUR INFORMATION TO THE STATE BOARD, RIGHT? WHETHER IT BE THE PERSON THAT'S FARMING OR LICENSE, OR THE PERSON THAT'S ACTUALLY SITTING THERE DOING THE JOB THAT YOU'RE ACTUALLY GOING AFTER. BOTH THE CHICKEN HOUSE WIRING DEAL.

YEAH. WE HAD THE AUTHORITY, APPARENTLY, TO HOLD A HEARING.

YEAH, WE HAD A HEARING JUST LIKE WE DID. YEAH, I REMEMBER THAT THE ATTORNEYS WERE PRESENT AND EVERYTHING. YES.

YEAH. SO. BUT ONCE AGAIN, WE ONLY HAVE A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF ABILITY TO DO THINGS. RIGHT. AND.

WELL, I MEAN, LIKE I SAID, I GOT TWO INCIDENTS RIGHT NOW.

THE OTHER THING ALSO THAT IF WE'RE GOING TO CREATE A REGISTRATION, WE NEED TO WE THERE'S GOING TO BE A FEE ASSESSED TO IT. WE NEED TO DECIDE WHAT THE FEE WILL BE BEFORE WE GO TO THE COMMISSIONERS. WE'RE GOING TO DO THAT. WE NEED TO DO THAT NOW. THAT'S WHY I'M SAYING IT. BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, IF WE'RE GOING TO GO TO COMMISSIONERS AND WE GOT A WE'VE GOT A GUN, BUT WE HAVEN'T COCKED THE BARRELS, THEY'RE GOING TO GO, WELL, YOU'RE NOT PRESENTING SOMETHING THAT'S NOT FULLY THAWED OUT. YES.

SO I THINK AT THAT POINT THAT'S THE CASE.

WHY DON'T WE JUST IRON THAT OUT NOW, WHILE YOU GUYS, ESPECIALLY YOU AND E.R.

AND LEVI AND SCOTT, WOULD KNOW MORE ABOUT THAT SIDE OF THINGS AS FAR AS THE THE COST DONE BY THE OTHER COUNTIES, PUBLIC COUNTY.

I JUST THINK THAT WAS $125 PLUS A $4 AND SOME ODD PROCESSING FEE BECAUSE YOU DID ONLINE, RIGHT? BECAUSE YOU'RE NOT ALLOWED TO GO THERE AND DO IT.

YEAH, I THINK THAT'S HIGH.

I THINK THAT'S EXTREMELY HIGH.

WE'RE NOT TRYING TO PRESENT A BURDEN.

NO, I DO TOO. WHEN I LOOK AT IT, LIKE I SAID, MY OUR STATE LICENSE IS LIKE $25.

YEAH. WHY SHOULD WHY SHOULD A COUNTY LICENSE OR REGISTRATION BE HIGHER THAN WHAT YOU'RE PAYING FOR THE STATE LICENSE? I KNOW, BUT WE'RE NOT ACCOUNTING FOR THOSE, LIKE EIGHT GUYS THAT GOT WORKING IN THAT OFFICE THAT DON'T DO NOTHING.

YEAH. QUEEN ANNE WILL PROBABLY BE THAT YOU CAN'T GO IN AND TALK TO THE QUEEN ANNE.

QUEEN I THINK 75 FOR ELECTORAL REGISTRATION, I DON'T KNOW, I CAN'T REMEMBER WHAT IT IS FOR, HE SAID.

I THINK IT'S 75 AND THEN DORCHESTER, I THINK IS AROUND 75.

SO YOU'RE LOOKING IN THAT NEIGHBORHOOD. BUT I MEAN, HONESTLY, I DON'T SEE WHERE 25 OR $30 FOR I DON'T KNOW WHY I HAD A $35 FIGURE IN MY HEAD WHERE THAT CAME FROM.

BUT I ALSO WANT TO THROW THIS OUT THERE.

IF WE'RE GOING TO DO SOMETHING LIKE THAT AND WE'RE GOING TO CREATE A FEE, THERE'S SOMEBODY IN THE OFFICE UPSTAIRS THAT IS GOING TO BE RIGHT, HAS TASKED WITH ALL THIS. RIGHT. SO WE NEED TO ACTUALLY MAKE IT ENOUGH.

THAT HELPS OFFSET THE AMOUNT OF TIME THAT THEY'RE GOING TO SPEND INTO THIS.

RIGHT. AND MAYBE THAT'S WHY TALBOT COUNTY IS DOING WHAT THEY'RE DOING, BECAUSE MAYBE THEY'RE MAYBE THEIR EMPLOYEES MAKE CONSIDERABLY MORE MONEY TOO.

SO, YOU KNOW, I AGREE I AGREE WITH KEEPING THE COST LOWER, BUT ALSO I GUESS FROM THE THE YEARS OF DOING THIS AND HEARING THIS OVER THE YEARS FROM STAFF. NO, I MEAN THAT'S THAT'S A REAL THING NEEDS TO BE ENOUGH.

THAT'S JUSTIFIABLE. THAT'S THE ADMINISTRATION FEE, RIGHT? THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE PAYING FOR. BASICALLY YOU'RE PAYING FOR IT TO.

WHAT YOU'D WANT TO DO IS PROBABLY TALK TO CRYSTAL, BECAUSE IT WOULD FALL ONTO THE LAP OF ONE OF HER PEOPLE, AND THAT WOULD BE ME. ALL RIGHT.

WHAT DO YOU WANT MORE? AND POOR GENEVA.

OKAY, SO SHE GETS THIS APPLICATION IN FROM SOMEBODY FOR A COUNTY REGISTRATION, AND IT SUPPOSEDLY GOT THIS CERTIFICATE OF INSURANCE ATTACHED.

SHE HAS TO SPEND THE TIME TO READ IT, MAKE SURE IT'S ACTUALLY LEGITIMATE,

[00:40:04]

BECAUSE THESE DAYS, THE FAKES ARE SO INCREDIBLE.

SO ALL THAT IS STAFF TIME TAKEN AWAY FROM SOMETHING ELSE.

AND WE'VE RECENTLY UPPED PLANNING AND CODES FEES BECAUSE OF BASICALLY THEY WERE THEY WERE SO LOW TO BE NICE FOR THE PUBLIC.

BUT THE PROBLEM WAS IT WAS DESTROYING STAFF.

PEOPLE TOOK ADVANTAGE OF IT, PARTICULARLY WITH RESUBMISSION OF SITE PLANS AND THINGS LIKE THAT. AN HOUR AND A HALF, TWO HOURS OF LABOR PER REGISTRATION PLUS RETIREMENT BENEFITS, SALARY.

AND WE PAY A LOT. YEAH, I DON'T THINK SO.

NOT WITH ALL THIS BEING SAID.

SHOULD DENTAL PLAN. WITH ALL THIS BEING SAID AND ALL OF US ARE BUSY, SO ALL OF US DON'T WANT TO TAKE TIME OUT TO HAVE ANOTHER MEETING.

BUT ONCE WE GET INFORMATION FROM THE OTHER COUNTIES AND WE HAVE THAT, DO THEY? WE WANT TO THEN TRY TO CONVEY ANOTHER MEETING AND FIGURE OUT THE FEE SCHEDULE. WHEN WE KNOW WHAT EVERYBODY ELSE IS DOING, WE HAVE MORE INFORMATION.

DO WE HAVE ANY IDEA WHEN WE WANT TO GO BEFORE THE COMMISSIONERS? DO YOU HAVE ANY INSIGHT ON THAT STORY? I'M SURE THE COMMISSIONERS PROBABLY ALREADY BOOKED FOR THE NEXT MONTH OR MORE ON AGENDA ON THEIR AGENDA. NOT NECESSARILY.

I'D SAY CONTACTING JEN REIBLY FOR A FUTURE AGENDA THAT LOOKS LIGHT AT THE MOMENT.

IT GETS A LITTLE SOMETIMES BUSY AT THE END OF THE FISCAL YEAR, WHICH IS, YOU KNOW, THE MONTH OF JUNE GETS BUSY FOR THE OFFICE OF LAW BECAUSE ALL THESE CONTRACTS HAVE TO BE RENEWED AND RESIGNED BEFORE JULY 1ST.

SO THEY'RE I THINK THEY'D BE ABLE TO TAKE YOU WITHIN THE NEXT 3 OR 4 MEETINGS, I WOULD THINK. SO IF THE MAJORITY OF OUR SURROUNDING COUNTIES, WITH THE EXCEPTION OF TOLBERT FOR IN THE $75 RANGE, THEN WE SHOULD BE ABLE TO BE EQUIVALENT TO THEM.

I AGREE WITH THAT. I THINK 125 IS RIDICULOUS.

PLUS, I TOTALLY AGREE WITH THAT.

YEAH, I TOTALLY AGREE WITH THAT.

SO YOU KNOW, BUT I DON'T SEE WHY.

THAT'S WHY I BROUGHT UP THIS. I AGREE WITH THE 25 OR $35 FEE.

BUT ALSO LIKE I SAID, I KNOW THAT WE'VE SAT THROUGH MEETINGS AND CRYSTAL SAYS. THAT DOESN'T PAY FOR THE TIME FOR STAFF TO DO IT, WHICH MAKES SENSE. AND HONESTLY, THAT'S WHAT WE NEED TO DO. LOOK, WHEN I, WHEN I HAVE TO COME GET A PERMIT OR FILE OR COME IN HERE AND FILE AN INSPECTION BECAUSE I DON'T DO THEM THAT MORNING, I COME IN HERE AND I CHARGE A FEE FOR THAT IN MY BUILDING, INTO MY PRICE.

I MEAN, IT'S MY TIME WHEN I DO THE SAME THING.

WHEN WE GO TO TALBOT COUNTY WORK, I KNOW THAT THERE'S AT LEAST THREE THINGS.

THREE TRIPS TO THAT JOB SITE JUST FOR PERMITTING AND INSPECTIONS.

AND THAT'S ALREADY BUILT INTO THE FEE.

SO I WOULD MAKE A MOTION THAT WE ASSIGN A $75 FEE TO REGISTRATION.

[Motion to Adopt Electrical Registration Fee]

DO I HAVE A SECOND? I SECOND, A SECOND.

ALL IN FAVOR? NO, THAT WAS UNANIMOUS.

MOTION CARRIES. THAT WAY WE DON'T HAVE TO WAIT ANOTHER MONTH.

OKAY. THAT'S FINE. THAT'S FINE TOO.

I JUST, LIKE I SAID, I JUST I WE'VE ALL SAT HERE LONG ENOUGH.

WELL, AT LEAST TWO OF US HAVE THAT WE KNOW THAT WE'RE GOING TO BE LIKE, THAT'S NOT ENOUGH COVER STAFF'S TIME.

SO I'M I'M I AGREE WITH THAT.

BUT WITHOUT BEING ASTRONOMICAL, BECAUSE WHEN WE GO TO THE COMMISSIONERS, THEY'RE GOING TO BE LIKE, WE DON'T WANT TO.

WE DON'T WANT TO BURDEN THE TAXPAYERS WITH TOO MUCH EXTRA.

WE'RE WILLING TO GO A LITTLE BIT, BUT NOT TOO FAR.

RIGHT. SO PEOPLE DO DESERVE TO BE PAID FOR WHAT THEY DO.

YEAH. WELL, THAT COVERS THAT PART OF IT.

[Violation Process Discussion]

UNLICENSED, UNINSURED AND ALL THAT.

YOU KNOW, WE AGREE WE HAVE TO DO SOMETHING, BUT AT WHAT POINT DO WE REPORT TO THE STATE? DO WE? HONESTLY, I DON'T THINK WE SHOULD REPORT ANYTHING TO THE STATE IF WE HAVEN'T TALKED TO SOMEBODY OURSELVES.

BECAUSE AT THAT POINT, IT SEEMS LIKE IT WAS.

I COULD JUST WALK BY AND SAY, WELL, I KNOW BOB BOEHNER'S DOING THIS.

SEND IT TO THE STATE. AND THEN, YOU KNOW, THEY FIND OUT THAT WASN'T THE CASE BECAUSE SOMEBODY TOLD ME WRONG.

YOU KNOW. WHAT'S YOUR THOUGHTS ON THAT?

[00:45:01]

WE HAVE NO LICENSE IN THE COUNTY.

YOU SUMMONED SOMEBODY IN TO GIVE THEM A CHANCE TO TALK AND DEFEND THEMSELVES OR TO ANSWER QUESTIONS, AND THEY IGNORE YOU.

THEY DON'T COME IN, RIGHT? BECAUSE THERE'S NO LEGAL RAMIFICATIONS IF THEY DON'T COME IN.

EXACTLY. THAT'S WHAT I'M. AND THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING. SO THAT'S WHEN YOU REPORT THEM. YOU KNOW, YOU GUYS PROBABLY ALREADY KNOW THIS. BUT MIKE, YOU DO HOME IMPROVEMENT WITHOUT A LICENSE.

I KNEW A GUY WITH DOING JAIL TIME UP IN QUEEN ANNE'S COUNTY FOR THAT.

THEY PROSECUTED HIM CRIMINALLY.

AND HE SPENT TIME IN JAIL.

AND HE WAS A MARRIED WITH KIDS.

AND HE FROM A, YOU KNOW, GOOD GUY, SUPPOSEDLY IN CHESTERTOWN.

BUT HE DID JAIL TIME. AND DIDN'T REALLY LEARN HIS LESSON.

SUBSEQUENTLY, WHEN YOU SEE SEVERAL GUYS THAT DO THAT HOME IMPROVEMENT, STUFF LIKE THAT, BUT THEY'RE TAKING THEY TAKE SO MUCH MONEY UP FRONT BEFORE THEY EVEN START THE PROJECT, AND THEN THEY DON'T EVEN DO THE PROJECT TO START WITH. THAT'S WHAT THIS GUY, THIS IS WHAT THIS GUY WOULD DO TO YOU. YEAH.

THAT'S I MEAN, THAT'S WHAT THEY I MEAN, I'VE SEEN SEVERAL OF THEM THAT HAVE DONE 2 OR 3. THEY'LL EVEN GET 2 OR 3 JOBS, TAKE PART OF THE MONEY RIGHT UP FRONT AND NEVER SHOW UP. WELL WE HAD A BUILDER USING SOMEBODY ELSE'S LICENSE.

RECENTLY. YEAH. I MEAN I THINK I'LL GO BACK THE SAME WAY IT USED TO BE.

MY FATHER ALWAYS SAID YOU COULDN'T AFFORD TO STARTED, YOU COULDN'T AFFORD TO DO THE WORK.

IF YOU COULDN'T DO IT WITHOUT GETTING MONEY AHEAD OF TIME, YOU COULDN'T AFFORD TO DO THE JOB. RIGHT. THAT'S THE WAY I.

I MEAN, I ALWAYS DO THE SAME THING.

I DON'T TAKE NO MONEY. WELL, THE THE LAW IS VERY DETAILED.

YOU GUYS PROBABLY ALREADY KNOW THIS, BUT THE MATCHICK YOU GO THROUGH THE TRAINING FOR IT, AND IT TEACHES YOU ABOUT WHAT'S SUPPOSED TO BE IN YOUR CONTRACT AND WHAT YOU ARE AND ARE NOT ALLOWED TO DO.

AS FAR AS TAKING UP FRONT MONEY, AND YOU HAVE TO HAVE A LIST OF ANY PROPOSED SUBS THAT YOU ANTICIPATE USING.

YOU HAVE TO HAVE A TIME FOR STARTING, A TIME FOR WHEN YOU EXPECT TO BE FINISHED.

THE COST FOR MATERIALS AND YOU'RE NOT ALLOWED TO TAKE LIKE 75% UP FRONT.

YOU JUST CAN'T DO IT. IT'S TO PROTECT THE CONSUMER, THE HOMEOWNER. AND SO THESE GUYS THAT ARE DOING ELECTRICAL WORK ON ANYTHING TO DO WITH SOMEBODY'S HOME, AND THEY'RE NOT REALLY LICENSED AND THEY'RE NOT REALLY INSURED, YOU MIGHT FIND A STATE'S ATTORNEY WILLING TO PROSECUTE FOR THAT.

AND IT MAY NOT REQUIRE A FIRE BEFORE THE STATE'S ATTORNEY JUMPS IN AND SAYS, I'M WILLING TO TAKE THAT.

AND IF YOU CALL THE COPS, PARTICULARLY IF YOU GOT A HOMEOWNER WHO'S UPSET, HAVE THEM CALL THE POLICE, CALL THE SHERIFF'S OFFICE.

YOU JUST NEVER KNOW. LIKE I SAID, I KNOW FOR I KNOW THAT THE STATE HAS STARTED TO CRACK DOWN. THEY HAVEN'T HAD THE THEY HAVEN'T HAD THE MANPOWER TO DO IT NOW.

THEY'RE STILL LIMITED ON THAT, BUT THEY'RE THEY'RE STARTING TO CRACK DOWN BECAUSE I'VE SEEN IT IN THE PAST COUPLE MEETINGS AND THEY'RE LIKE, YEAH, MARK THIS FOR PROSECUTION, MARK THIS FOR PROSECUTION.

YOU DO HAVE TO REMEMBER, THOUGH, THE CRACKDOWN ON THIS SIDE OF THE BRIDGE IS USUALLY SLOWER.

I KNOW. WELL, I MEAN, AND ALSO I MEAN, IT'S A FACT BECAUSE THEY PRETTY MUCH TOLD ME, WELL, WHAT ARE YOU GUYS GOING TO GO OVER THERE DO OVER THERE. BECAUSE WE KNOW YOU USUALLY YOU DON'T DO ANYTHING.

YEAH. THAT'S THEIR THAT'S THE WAY THEY VIEW IT.

AND I'D LIKE TO SEE IT BE A LITTLE DIFFERENT, ESPECIALLY WHEN I HAD TO PAY ALL THIS MONEY FOR LICENSES AND INSURANCE AND ALL THIS STUFF.

AND I KNEW THESE OTHER GUYS RUNNING AROUND. THEY'RE NOT. I'M OUT THERE TRYING TO GET MY GUYS TRAINED AND OSHA 30 AND ALL THAT.

IT'S. NOT THAT I'M NOT THAT THESE GUYS WERE TAKING JOBS THAT I'M DOING EITHER, BUT IT'S JUST THE FACT THAT PART OF OUR RESPONSIBILITY HERE IS TO PROTECT THE CITIZENS OF THE OF THE COUNTY.

AND WITH GUYS LIKE THAT DOING STUFF AND TAKING JOBS FROM SOMEBODY SOMEWHERE, NOT ONLY JUST TAKING JOBS, BUT I MEAN, IT'S ALSO PUTTING THESE HOMEOWNERS AT RISK. YEAH.

YEAH. OF FIRE OR OR CATASTROPHIC LOSS.

ILLNESS. YOU KNOW, ALL THAT THIS IS SOMETHING FOR THE STATE LEGISLATURES, LEGISLATORS. IF YOU GUYS KNOW ANY TO SPONSOR A BILL ON THIS.

BUT YOU MAY BE AWARE THAT A LOT OF HOMEOWNERS INSURANCE POLICIES HAVE EXCLUSIONS IN THEM FOR, OH, FILL IN THE BLANK PIT BULLS.

DOG BITES. THEY WILL NOT COVER WHEN YOU GET SUED BECAUSE YOUR DOG BIT A NEIGHBOR OR BIT YOUR VISITOR. THEY WILL NOT COVER THAT LOSS.

OKAY. WHAT IF THROUGH THE INSURANCE CODE THE INSURANCE ARTICLE OF THE MARYLAND CODE.

[00:50:02]

IT SHOULD CLEAN IT UP REAL FAST BECAUSE WHEN THE AGENT IS SELLING THE POLICY TO THE HOMEOWNER, HE'S GOING TO POINT OUT, OKAY, DON'T COVER DOGS.

IT DOESN'T COVER IF YOU EVER LET A GUY WHO'S NOT LICENSED DO ELECTRICAL WORK AND THERE'S A LOSS, YOUR HOUSE BURNS DOWN, GUESS WHAT? NO COVERAGE. MAYBE GET RID OF A TRAMPOLINE YEARS AGO.

THERE YOU GO. SOMETIMES SWIMMING POOLS ALSO.

JACK. JACK, YOUR RATES UP.

BUT. BUT YOU CAN HAVE AN EXCLUSION IF THE INSURANCE COMPANIES COULD EXCLUDE HVAC, MOLD AND MILDEW. THEY EXCLUDE A LOT OF STUFF.

IT'S NOT ANYMORE. AND LIKE I SAID, THAT'S WHAT I MEAN.

ELECTRICITY. YOU GOT THE RISK OF SHOCK AND FIRE.

HVAC, YOU GOT DISEASES AND WHATNOT.

MOLD AND ALL THAT PLUMBING.

I MEAN, YOU CAN FLOOD A HOUSE, PLUMBING, AND IT COST YOU A SMALL FORTUNE TO TAKE A SHOWER RIGHT NOW. NO.

I MEAN, THESE HOMEOWNERS INSURANCE AGENTS CAN TAKE A BIG HIT.

ESPECIALLY SOME OF THE WORK I'VE SEEN THESE GUYS DO.

SO I DON'T I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE BEST COURSE OF ACTION FOR THAT IS.

I MEAN, I REALLY THINK WE SHOULD BRING SOMEBODY IN AND TALK TO THEM BEFORE WE REPORT SOMETHING. BUT IF THEY DON'T SHOW, THEN WE REPORT THAT, HEY, THIS THIS IS HAPPENING.

LET THE STATE INVESTIGATE IT FURTHER.

I GUESS THE ONLY THING THAT MAY ACTUALLY MAKE THEM COME IN WOULD BE WE WOULD LIKE TO TALK TO YOU ABOUT THE INCIDENTS THAT OCCURRED SUCH AND SUCH ADDRESS, BLAH BLAH BLAH. AND WITHOUT YOU SHOWING AND GIVING EXPLANATIONS.

THIS WILL BE AUTOMATICALLY SENT TO THE STATE BOARD.

THERE IS A CHANCE THAT WITH CLARIFICATION FROM YOU THAT WE SQUASH IT.

WE CAN MAKE THIS NOT GO.

WE CAN MAKE THIS NOT GO ANY FURTHER.

RIGHT? NOT NOT THE I KNOW THAT'S NOT THE RIGHT WORD, BUT I KNOW I GET THE GIST OF WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, AND THAT MAKES SENSE. I MEAN, BUT YOU IF YOU SENT ME A LETTER AND I'M LIKE, THEY GOT NO, THEY THEY GOT NOTHING.

THEY THEY CAN'T DO ANYTHING TO ME.

SO WHAT DO I CARE? I'M NOT GOING TO SHOW UP.

RIGHT. I GOT A GUY RIGHT NOW THAT STARTED WIRING HIS OWN WHOLE BUILDING.

FAIR SIZED POLE BUILDING.

HE COULDN'T HANDLE THE SERVICE.

HE CALLED, YOU KNOW, NEED YOU TO HANDLE THE SERVICE.

I GO IN THERE AND I'M LIKE, YOU CAN'T DO THAT ANYMORE.

BECAUSE HIS OLD BUILDING. HE COULD AND HE DID.

BUT BECAUSE WHAT HE DOES IS CONSIDERED AGRICULTURE, I GUESS. RIGHT? BUT HE DIDN'T KNOW.

HE JUST DIDN'T KNOW THINGS HAD CHANGED.

AND HE STOPPED. HE SAID, OH, OKAY, YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO FINISH IT THEN. BUT NOW I GOT TO GO OVER WHAT HE DID.

BUT BUT REGARDLESS, IN THAT CASE, IF IT WAS A SITUATION SIMILAR TO THAT AND HE WOULD COME IN HERE AND HE WOULD I DIDN'T KNOW THE LAW CHANGED.

YOU KNOW, I WAS JUST DOING MY OWN.

RIGHT. AND OKAY. YOU'VE STOPPED.

SO WE'RE DONE. AND THAT WOULD BE THAT ON THAT CASE.

BUT THEN IN THE CASE LIKE THAT, YOU DON'T HAVE AS MUCH PROBLEM WITH THAT.

THAT GUY WAS DOING FOR HIS OWN. YOU'RE DOING IT FOR SOMEBODY ELSE. YOU'RE GETTING PAID FOR IT. YEAH. THAT'S THAT'S A BIG PROBLEM.

YEAH. I MEAN, WE'VE ALL DONE STUFF OUT OF OUR TRADE FOR OURSELVES.

OH, YEAH. AT HOME THAT WE WOULDN'T GO OUT AND HAVE SOMEBODY PAY US TO DO.

I THINK THAT'S THE THAT'S THE BIGGER PROBLEM IS THE GUYS THAT ARE DOING IT FOR PEOPLE THAT DON'T KNOW. BUT GETTING OLD.

I'M LEARNING. I JUST HAD AN RV AIR CONDITIONER GO OUT AND I DIDN'T EVEN CHANGE IT MYSELF. I HIRED AN RV GUY TO DO IT.

I UNDERSTAND THAT FULLY.

SO, I MEAN, I GUESS AT THIS POINT WITH THESE INCIDENTS WE KNOW OF JUST WHO SAYS THAT? THAT'D BE I WOULD I WOULD SAY IT WOULD BE SOMETHING GENEVA WOULD HAVE TO SEND OUT.

BUT WE ALSO WOULD HAVE TO HERE'S ANOTHER THING WITHOUT A REGISTRATION.

DO WE KNOW THAT WE HAVE A ADDRESS THAT WE COULD SEND TO.

THAT'S LEGIT? RIGHT, RIGHT.

YOU KNOW, WITHOUT A REGISTRATION AND A VALID ADDRESS.

RIGHT. IF YOU JUST SAID, YOU KNOW, I HEARD THAT JOHN MCGILLICUDDY OVER THERE IS DOING THIS AND SAYS, WELL, THERE'S 15 OF THEM.

YEAH. WE DON'T KNOW WHERE WE'RE GOING TO SEND THAT, YOU KNOW.

[00:55:02]

AND I DRAW UP THOSE DOCUMENTS AND PRESENTED TO THE BOARD.

THEY'LL SIGN IT AND WE SEND IT OUT.

I ALSO SUBMIT THE SUMMONS AS WELL.

SO WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT IS SOUNDS SIMILAR, LIKE THE PROCESS. SO I THINK THAT'S SOMETHING THAT'S DOABLE.

AND IT'S SOMETHING THAT I WOULD BE ABLE TO HANDLE, BUT LIKE YOU SAY, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO HAVE THE REGISTRATION PROCESS IN ORDER FIRST, BECAUSE I KNOW ALSO WITH LIQUOR BOARD, ONCE YOU DO ALL THAT, IT IS TASKED TO THE SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT CORRECT TO DELIVER THAT.

YES. RIGHT. SO THAT WE HAVE PROOF THAT THAT WAS.

YES, SIR. RECEIVED IT.

YEAH. NOW ALSO WITHOUT INVOLVING THE SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT, IT COULD BE SENT CERTIFIED SO THAT THEY HAD TO SIGN FOR IT.

AND THEN WE KNOW THAT THEY RECEIVED IT. YEP.

THERE'S A THERE'S A FEE THAT'S ATTACHED.

I'M SURE THERE'S A FEE ATTACHED BY THE SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT TO SERVE THAT SUMMONS.

SO TO ELIMINATE THAT ONCE AGAIN, BECAUSE OF THE COST OF THE REGISTRATION AND STUFF WITHOUT MAKING US GO IN THE HOLE TOO DEEP, THERE'S I KNOW THERE'S A DIFFERENT WAY AROUND IT.

AND THAT WOULD BE, I WOULD ASSUME, TO SEND IT AS A REGISTERED LETTER AND THEY WOULD HAVE TO SIGN FOR IT NOW KNOWS HOW THAT.

DOOR. THAT'S WHEN THE REGISTRATIONS.

WE HAVE A REGISTRATION, BUT THAT'S ALSO FOR SOMEBODY THAT'S REGISTERED. A COUPLE OF THESE CASES HERE.

THEY'RE NOT GOING TO BE REGISTERED AND NOTHING ELSE.

I KNOW WHAT YOU DO ABOUT THAT.

THEY HAVE PERMITS. WELL, ONE THE ONE JOB IN FREDERICKSBURG DOES HAVE PERMITS. ACTUALLY, BOTH OF THEM HAVE PERMITS.

ANYWAY, THE COUNTY DOES NOT HAVE JURISDICTION.

BUT THE STATE TOLD ME BECAUSE I ASKED HIM THIS QUESTION.

AND THEY SAID THAT WHEN WE, AS THE COUNTY KNOW OF IT HAPPENING IN OUR COUNTY, WHETHER IT'S IN A MUNICIPALITY OR NOT, WE ARE RESPONSIBLE TO REPORT IT TO THE STATE.

SO IF IT'S HAPPENING IN AN INCORPORATED TOWN, WE HAVE TO LOOK AT WHETHER WE HAVE ANY ABILITY TO CALL THAT PERSON IN OR JUST GET ALL THE EVIDENCE THAT WE HAVE AND JUST REFER THAT TO THE STATE.

BECAUSE IF IT'S IN AN INCORPORATED TOWN, WE'RE NOT ISSUING PERMITS.

WE'RE NOT CHECKING ANY OF THAT STUFF? NO. SO BASICALLY, IF WE I MEAN, I GUESS I HAVE A COURTESY.

WE WOULD TELL THE TOWN.

TELL THAT TOWN. HEY, WE'RE AWARE OF THIS SITUATION.

RIGHT. DO YOU WANT TO HAND OVER OR YOU WANT US? IS IT A BRAND NEW HOME? NO ONE'S A REMODEL, BUT.

WELL, ACTUALLY, IT'S IT'S A BRAND NEW TOWNHOMES.

I MEAN, YOU COULD SEND THE ADDRESS OF THE BUILDER TO SHOW THAT, YOU KNOW, HEARING WHAT? ELECTRICIAN. YEAH. YEAH.

YEAH. BUT IF THAT'S THAT MAN THAT'S LIVING IN GEORGIA, HE AIN'T GOING TO COME UP HERE TO LISTEN TO US. NO. YOU KNOW HE'S A RETIRED MAN IN GEORGIA THAT'S FORMING THAT LICENSE OUT.

YEAH. AND ONE IN CAMBRIDGE HAS DEMENTIA.

BUT THAT'S WHERE. BUT THAT'S WHERE TO ME YOU SEND IT TO THE STATE.

THE STATE LOOKS AT THIS AND GO WHOA, WAIT A MINUTE.

WE KNOW THAT THIS MAN'S NOT SUPERVISING THIS JOB BECAUSE HIS RESIDENCY IS IN GEORGIA, SO WE'RE GOING TO REVOKE HIS LICENSE.

I WOULD THINK THAT THAT'S WHAT THE WHERE THEY WOULD GO WITH THAT NOW WHETHER THEY WOULD OR NOT, I DON'T KNOW. BUT I GUESS THAT POINT IS NOT REALLY OUR CONCERN.

THAT ONE WENT TO WHAT THEY CALL PRETRIAL, WHERE THEY SEND UP TO DETERMINE IF WE HAVE ENOUGH. DID THEY HAVE ENOUGH EVIDENCE TO PROSECUTE? WAS TAKEN OUT OF OUR HANDS AT THAT POINT? WE AGREED TO LET IT GO.

WHAT THEY CALLED PRETRIAL. OKAY.

IN A SITUATION LIKE THAT, STATE'S ATTORNEY TAKES CARE OF IT FROM THERE.

WELL, HAVE WE COVERED ALL OUR BASES ON THE UNINSURED AND THE BASICALLY ON DOING A REGISTRATION AND SETTING A FEE BASE? ARE WE? I THINK WE YEAH, I THINK WE'VE COVERED ALL OF THAT.

THAT PART OF IT I THINK WE'RE GOOD ON.

I GUESS IT'S AT THE POINT WITH THESE, THESE UNLICENSED AND UNINSURED GUYS, IF ANYBODY KNOWS IT, WE'LL JUST HAVE TO SCHEDULE A MEETING AND HAVE A HEARING ABOUT IT, NOTHING ELSE. AND I DON'T KNOW IF IT WOULD BE LEGAL, BUT I DON'T KNOW IF WE COULD ACTUALLY TO DECIDE WHETHER WE WANTED TO HAVE A HEARING, IF WE WERE ALL SENT AN EMAIL AND THEN IN, IN AN EMAIL DECIDED YES OR NO ON A MEETING OR, YOU KNOW WHAT I'M SAYING, INSTEAD OF HAVING A MEETING JUST TO DISCUSS

[01:00:02]

RIGHT. I KNOW THAT I KNOW THAT YOU HAVE A MEETING ABOUT A MEETING? IN OTHER WORDS, I KNOW THAT OUR OTHER BOARDS, WE DON'T TALK ON PERSONAL EMAILS, BUT I KNOW ON THIS BOARD IT'S A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT. AND WE DON'T HAVE BASICALLY COUNTY EMAILS TO GO BY.

SO I DON'T KNOW. I MEAN, WOULD THAT BE STEWART? WHERE DOES THAT CROSS A BOUNDARY? IT DOES. OKAY. IF YOU HAVE A QUORUM DISCUSSING, FOR EXAMPLE, IF YOU SEND OUT A MASS EMAIL TO ALL OF YOU AND SAY, WELL, WHAT DO YOU THINK WE OUGHT TO DO ABOUT THIS FEE? AND EVERYBODY CHIMES IN WITH A DIFFERENT AMOUNT AND SAY, OKAY, WELL, HALF OF US AGREE WITH OR TWO THIRDS OF US AGREE WITH $50, SO IT'LL BE $50. OPEN MEETINGS ACT VIOLATION.

YOU GUYS ARE SUBJECT TO IT JUST LIKE THE COUNTY COMMISSIONERS. BUT IF IF WE IF GENEVA SENT US ALL EMAILS SAYING, HEY, WE HAVE A PERSON THAT WE NEED TO DISCUSS, DO YOU WANT TO HAVE A MEETING ABOUT THIS PERSON BEFORE WE WOULD CALL THEM IN? IS A YES OR NO ANSWER? VIOLATING THAT OPEN MEETINGS ACT AS LONG AS WE'RE NOT ACTUALLY DISCUSSING THE CASE JUST WHETHER TO TO. ACTUALLY, THAT'S WHY I LEAN TO YOU BECAUSE YOU'VE ALWAYS BEEN GREAT FOR THE ADVICE.

IT'S PROBABLY WHAT'S CALLED AN ADMINISTRATIVE FUNCTION.

BUT THE SMART THING TO DO IS TO HAVE GENEVA SEND OUT A, OH, I DON'T KNOW, SHE COULD SEND IT TO CRYSTAL OPENLY BLIND CC ALL OF YOU.

OKAY, SO YOU CANNOT DO A MASS RESPONSE.

YOU CAN ONLY RESPOND BACK TO HER AND CRYSTAL.

OKAY. AND THAT'S HOW SHE'S ABLE TO DO THE TALLYING.

OKAY. YOU GUYS NEVER GOT TOGETHER AND HAD A CONVERSATION.

SO, IN OTHER WORDS, IT MIGHT BE OUTSIDE OF THE OPEN MEETINGS ACT BECAUSE OF ITS.

IT'S SUCH AN ADMINISTRATIVE KIND OF QUESTION.

BUT WHY TAKE THE CHANCE, PARTICULARLY IF IT ENDS UP WITH SOME GUY LAWYERING UP WHO'S FIGHTING WHATEVER IT IS YOU'RE TRYING TO DO TO HIM? THEY'RE ALWAYS GOING TO WANT TO KNOW, WELL, HOW DID YOU EVEN CALL THE MEETING? WHERE'S WHERE'S THE OPEN? I WANT TO HAVE A PIA REQUEST.

I WANT TO SEE EVERYTHING. SO BASICALLY IT'S A ROUNDABOUT THAT THAT'S KIND OF IN A GRAY AREA, SO TO SPEAK. I WOULDN'T TAKE THE CHANCE.

I WOULD JUST DO THE BLIND CC'S TO EVERYBODY, YOU KNOW, OPENLY COPY SOMEBODY IF YOU WANT TO LIKE CRYSTAL.

OKAY. OR EVEN ME. THAT WAY YOU GUYS CAN'T GET IN TROUBLE WITH THE OPEN MEETINGS ACT.

BECAUSE, REMEMBER, IT'S ONLY A QUORUM IF THERE'S IF YOUR QUORUM.

WHAT'S A QUORUM HERE? FIVE, FOUR.

THERE'S. AND THERE'S SEVEN OF US. SEVEN.

IT'S I THINK IT'S EIGHT.

I THINK IT'S EIGHT OF YOU GUYS. THERE'S NINE OF US BECAUSE THREE IS NOT HERE. RIGHT? YES.

SO FIVE. OKAY. OKAY. AS LONG AS IT'S NOT A QUORUM OF YOU SITTING AROUND TALKING ABOUT THIS EXACT SUBJECT, THEN YOU'RE NOT IN TROUBLE.

BUT WHEN YOU HAVE A QUORUM PRESENT, WHETHER IT'S IN A BAR OR IT'S HERE OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, YOU KNOW, THAT NEEDS TO BE AN OPEN MEETING, THEORETICALLY FOR THE PUBLIC TO TO BE ABLE TO LOOK BACK ON THIS MEETING'S NOT ADVERTISED.

SO YES, IT IS. IS IT. YES.

SO IT'S NO REALLY DIFFERENT THAN BZA OR NOT ADVERTISED IN THE PAPER.

BUT IT IS. YES. OKAY. NO.

SO THERE'S EVEN THOUGH WE'RE LIVE AND SOMEONE COULD STREAM US, IT'S NOT KIND OF THE SAME AS LIQUOR BOARD OR BZA OR THAT'S ACTUALLY DULY ADVERTISED WITHIN THE PAPER AND DIFFERENT THINGS LIKE THAT.

I MEAN, IT'S STILL OPEN MEETING. IT'S SUBJECT TO.

IT'S A PUBLIC BODY APPOINTED BY A LEGISLATIVE BODY.

AND AT ANY TIME SOMEBODY COULD GO BACK AND LOOK AT THIS.

ABSOLUTELY. YEAH. I GUESS AT THAT POINT, THE BEST THING TO DO, WE REALLY NEED TO TALK TO CRYSTAL, TO MAYBE EVERYTHING JUST GET REPORTED TO CRYSTAL. AND CRYSTAL CAN SAY AT THAT POINT, CRYSTAL WILL BE THE DETERMINING FACTOR WHETHER WE HAVE A MEETING OR NOT. SO ULTIMATELY, THAT'S WHERE I COME BACK TO ANYHOW. THERE HAS TO BE SOMETHING BECAUSE AS WITH MOST OF THE BOARDS IN THIS COUNTY, EVERYBODY'S VOLUNTEER.

THIS IS A DAYTIME MEETING.

ALL OF US ARE TAKING TIME AWAY FROM OUR JOBS.

I DON'T SAY IT, BOB. ALL RIGHT.

BUT BUT JUST TO CALL A MEETING EVERY TIME SOMETHING HAPPENED WITHOUT.

THERE HAS TO BE. THERE HAS TO BE A DETERMINATION WHETHER IT'S SOMETHING WORTH HAVING A MEETING FOR. LIKE I SAID, MAYBE THAT'S A THING WE NEED TO TALK TO CRYSTAL ABOUT. AND MAYBE AS THE CHAIR.

CRYSTAL JUST ONLY NEEDS TO EMAIL ERIC AS THE CHAIR.

I DON'T KNOW. I DON'T HAVE YOUR BYLAWS IN FRONT OF ME, BUT THE BYLAWS NORMALLY ADDRESS WHO CAN CALL A MEETING OF THE BOARD.

SOMETIMES IT'S DESIGNATED THAT THE CHAIR OR THE VICE CHAIR CAN CALL A MEETING OF THE BOARD OR NON CHAIRS. TWO OR MORE CAN REQUEST.

[01:05:08]

IT'S GOT IT'S GOT TO BE THE CHAIR, VICE CHAIR OR TWO OTHER MEMBERS AT LARGE TO TRIGGER GENEVA. SCHEDULING A MEETING.

RIGHT. LIKE I TRIGGER THIS ONE.

YEAH, I TRIGGER THIS ONE BECAUSE I WANTED TO TALK ABOUT ALL THESE THINGS.

BUT. SO MAYBE THAT'S JUST THE THING.

WELL, JUST REPORT THAT BACK TO CRYSTAL AND LET CRYSTAL.

THAT'S THE ONE THAT'S ISSUING THE PERMITS THAT ULTIMATELY LET HER BE THE ONE THAT DECIDES. AND THEN SHE COULD LET ME KNOW WHOEVER AND WE GO FROM THERE.

OKAY. IF THEY DETERMINE THAT THERE'S ENOUGH THAT WE NEED TO DISCUSS IT.

AND THEN AT THAT POINT WE COULD ALSO NOTIFY THE SAID PARTY AND DO IT ALL AT ONE TIME.

THAT WAY WE GIVE ENOUGH TIME TO DO THAT.

I THINK THAT'S PROBABLY THE BEST COURSE OF ACTION. BUT WE GOT TO HAVE THE MEETING SO THAT IT GETS REPORTED TO THE STATE AT SOME POINT.

SO I'LL TALK TO CRYSTAL ABOUT THAT AFTER.

ONCE SHE GETS BACK FROM ALL SHE'S GOT GOING ON RIGHT NOW, I'LL TALK TO HER ABOUT THAT.

OKAY. WE'LL SEE WHERE WE GO FROM THERE.

DID YOU HAVE DISCUSSION ON THIS ELECTRIC VEHICLE, CAR CHARGE AND STUFF THAT YOU WANTED TO TALK ABOUT? NO, WE PRETTY MUCH TALKED ABOUT IT. IT'S GOING TO BE ADDRESSED. IT'S GOING TO BE ADDRESSED AT THE AT THE PLAN REVIEW.

SO THAT WAY IF IT'S NOT ON THEIR PLANS, FIRST DATES GOING TO NOTE WE NEED THE CAR CHARGING OUTLET. AND THAT WAY THAT'LL.

THAT'LL AT LEAST SHOW IT.

IT'LL BE ON THERE FOR THE BUILDER.

SO IF HE DOESN'T PAY ATTENTION TO IT THEN THAT'S HIS BABY ON THE FINAL WHEN HE DOESN'T HAVE IT. AND IF HE DOESN'T KNOW ABOUT IT, THEN HE'LL SAY WHAT'S WHAT.

HIS CAR CHARGER THING YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT.

ANYTHING THAT IS ON ANY, ANY RESIDENTIAL HOME OR BUILDING WITH A DRIVEWAY, WITH A DRIVEWAY, WITH DRIVEWAY, WITHOUT A DRIVEWAY.

IT DOESN'T MATTER IF YOU DON'T HAVE A DRIVEWAY, YOU DON'T NEED ONE.

OKAY, THAT FIXES WHAT I'M WORKING ON, RIGHT? YEAH. LIKE IF IT'S IN THE TOWN AND YOU AND YOU ONLY HAVE STREET PARKING.

YEAH, YOU DON'T NEED IT. OR IF IT'S LIKE YOU PUT A BUILDING UP RIGHT THERE IN THE BACK 40 THAT THAT DOESN'T ACTUALLY HAVE A DRIVE TO IT.

WELL, IT'S IN A IT'S IN A HOUSE. IT'S IN A RESIDENCE.

YEAH. BUT IN MY CASE WITH MY BUILDING, WITH HAVING A RESIDENCE WITHIN THE BUILDING, I'M STILL PRONE TO HAVE TO DO THAT CHARGER.

CORRECT. SO WHEN CRYSTAL MADE A SOUND WAS BASICALLY ANY STRUCTURE BEING BUILT THAT HAD A DRIVEWAY. DRIVEWAY. YEP.

SO I DON'T THINK THERE'S ANY STRUCTURE I'D HAVE TO READ THAT DOESN'T HAVE A DRIVE WHERE YOU CAN'T GET A CAR TO IT.

CORRECT. I'M TAKING MY DRIVE OUT.

JUST GETTING MY PLACE A HELICOPTER BY BOAT.

ALL RIGHT. I DON'T HAVE ANYTHING ELSE.

DOES ANYBODY ELSE HAVE ANYTHING?

[Meeting Adjourned]

MOTION TO ADJOURN. SECOND.

I SECOND. ALL IN FAVOR? AYE. MOTION CARRIES. MEETING ADJOURNED.

THANK YOU ALL. THANK YOU ALL.

* This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.