[00:00:01]
AND WITH US TONIGHT IS VICE CHAIR, HANNAH CAWLEY, MEMBERS TRAVIS BREEDING, KEITH BILBROUGH, AND ROGER MCKNIGHT.STAFF TONIGHT IS LESLIE [INAUDIBLE].
OUR ATTORNEYS, STEWART BARROLL.
OLIVIA, I'M NOT EVEN GOING TO GO TO THE LAST NAME, AND OUR BOARD ADMINISTRATIVE ASSISTANT, GENEVA.
[MD Dept of Planning Clearinghouse Review MD20250415-0274 - MDOT SHA Sale of Excess Property, River Road, Denton]
FIRST THING ON THE AGENDA, LESLIE, IS YOU, MARYLAND CLEARINGHOUSE STATE HIGHWAY.>> THIS IS A CLEARINGHOUSE PROJECT REVIEW FROM THE MARYLAND DEPARTMENT OF PLANNING.
THE PROJECT THEY'RE ASKING US TO COMMENT ON IS STATE HIGHWAY ADMINISTRATION EXCESS PROPERTY.
IT'S LOCATED AT THE CORNER OF RIVER ROAD AND ROUTE 404.
IT'S ABOUT A LITTLE JUST UNDER 10 ACRES. IT'S VACANT.
IT WAS ORIGINALLY PURCHASED BECAUSE THEY WERE LOOKING AT IT AS A POTENTIAL SITE AS PART OF A BYPASS PROJECT BACK IN THE '80S.
THEY HAVE NO NEED OF IT ANYMORE, AND SO THEY ARE ACCEPTING BIDS FOR PURCHASE OF THE PROPERTY.
PART OF THE REASON THAT THEY SUBMITTED IT TO US WAS TO SEE IF THE COUNTY HAD ANY INTEREST IN THE PROPERTY BECAUSE OF THE LOCATION OF IT.
THE COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR AND DEPUTY ADMINISTRATOR REVIEWED IT AND SAID THAT WE DO NOT.
THEY HAVE GOTTEN SOME INTEREST FROM AN ADJOINING PROPERTY OWNER, AND THEY DON'T KNOW IF HE'S GOING TO SUBMIT A BID, BUT HE DID EXPRESS AN INTEREST IN IT.
I ASKED THEM TO LET US KNOW IF THEY DO GET A BID FROM THE ADJOINING PROPERTY OWNER. IT'S VACANT.
WE HAVE NO INTEREST IN PURCHASING IT.
THE SALE OF IT DOESN'T NECESSARILY CONFLICT WITH ANY OF OUR PLANS OR PROGRAMS OR OBJECTIVES.
THE STAFF RECOMMENDATION IS TO GIVE IT AN APPROVAL CODE OF C1, WHICH IS CONSISTENT WITH COUNTY PLANS PROGRAMS, AND OBJECTIVES.
>> THE STATE'S ADVERTISING AS LANDLOCKED.
>> THERE'S NO ACCESS FROM 404, AND THERE'S NO ACCESS CURRENTLY FROM RIVER ROAD, EITHER.
THE BIG TRANSMISSION LINES RUN CLOSE TO IT ALONG THE BORDER OF THE PROPERTY SO I'M NOT SURE HOW YOU WOULD ACCESS IT.
>> WELL, IT COMES OUT TO 404, BUT WHEN THEY'RE ADVERTISING IT AS LANDLOCKED, THAT'S THEIR SIGNAL THEY'RE NOT GOING TO GIVE YOU ACCESS ON 404.
>> I GUESS YOU COULD SAY REALISTICALLY, AN ADJOINING PROPERTY OWNER WOULD MAKE THE MOST SENSE.
>> IT'S ON THE WESTBOUND SIDE.
>> A DAY WHEN I WENT BY, I LOOKED.
IT'S NOT RIGHT AT THE INTERSECTION.
IT'S THE NEXT PROPERTY WEST OF THE INTERSECTION.
THEY'RE KEEPING THE INTERSECTION PROPERTY.
>> THEN ONE PROPERTY UP IS THIS NINE ACRES OR WHATEVER IT IS.
>> I CAN'T BELIEVE THAT THEY'RE GETTING RID OF IT BECAUSE IF THEY EVER DO PUT AN OVERPASS THERE, I'M SURE THEY WILL NEED IT FOR STORM WATER MANAGEMENT OR SOMETHING.
THE ONLY REAL CONCERN THAT I HAVE IS CREATING A LANDLOCKED PARCEL.
IF ONE OF THE NEIGHBORING PROPERTY OWNERS DOESN'T BUY IT, IS THAT SETTING US UP FOR A LEGAL DISPUTE OVER ACCESS AND SOMEHOW ACCESSING THE PROPERTY? YOU REALLY SHOULDN'T CREATE A PARCEL THAT IS UNACCESSIBLE, CORRECT?
>> POOR LESLIE'S ALREADY SUFFERED THROUGH THIS, I THINK ONCE.
>> SO IT DOESN'T REALLY MATTER?
>> THE WAY THE LAW WORKS, THE LAW DOES NOT ALLOW THE CREATION OF A LANDLOCKED PARCEL.
IT IMPLIES THAT THE GRANTOR AT THE TIME THAT HE CARVED IT OUT AND GRANTED IT MEANT TO HAVE INCLUDED ACCESS TO THE NEAREST PUBLIC ROAD OVER THE REMAINDER OF THE MOTHER PARCEL.
IT'S SOMETHING THAT LAWYERS LOVE TO LITIGATE BECAUSE IT GOES BACK 1,000 YEARS OF HISTORY OF LAND LAW, BUT THAT'S WHAT HAPPENS.
WHOEVER OWNS IT, THE STATE OF MARYLAND, I'VE SAID THIS BEFORE, RIGHT NOW THEY THINK THE VALUE IS MINIMAL BECAUSE IT'S LANDLOCKED.
[00:05:02]
WOULDN'T TAKE MUCH TO GET AN EASEMENT FOR ACCESS, BUT THAT'S NOT OUR PROBLEM. AT THE MOMENT, IT'S NOT.>> LESLIE, WHAT'S THE CURRENT ZONE.
>> I BELIEVE IT'S IN THE R AREA, AND IT'S NOT IN ANY OF DENTON'S PROPOSED GROWTH AREAS EITHER.
>> THEY SHOULD JUST PUT SOLAR PANELS ON IT.
>> [OVERLAPPING] IT'S TOTALLY WOODED.
>>THEY DON'T WANT TO CUT DOWN THE TREES. THEY'LL TAKE ACRE LANDS.
>> WE GOT TO HAVE A FARMER TO COME IN AND CLEAR IT, HILL IT, AND LEVEL IT OUT, AND THEN OWN IT.
>> PROBABLY GOT A SAND THING ROLLING UNDER IT.
>> OR WE CAN DIG A HOLE THERE.
>> GOES YOUR TAXES [INAUDIBLE]
[Motion to Approve MDOT SHA Sale of Property Clearinghouse to Code C1 ]
>> THE COUNTY IS NOT INTERESTED IN IT.
ANYBODY WANT TO MAKE A MOTION?
>> I'LL MAKE A MOTION THAT WE APPROVE THE CODE C1 CONSISTENT WITH COUNTY PLANS AND PROGRAMS AND OBJECTIVES TO THE STATE CLEARINGHOUSE.
>> WE HAVE A MOTION IN A SECOND.
ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? HEARING NONE, ALL IN FAVOR OF THE MOTION, AS STATED BY MR. BREEDING, SAY AYE OR RAISE YOUR RIGHT HAND.
>> ALL OPPOSED? HEARING NONE, THE MOTION PASSED. MS. LESLIE.
[Comprehensive Plan Update]
THIS IS THE FIRST NIGHT THAT WE'RE STARTING WITH THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN.IN THE PACKET, WERE TWO CHAPTERS FOR US TO REVIEW TONIGHT, AND THIS IS THE FIRST TIME WE'RE LOOKING BECAUSE WE'RE STARTING TO WORK ON THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN.
THE TWO CHAPTERS THAT WE HAVE ARE MINERAL RESOURCES AND RESOURCE CONSERVATION.
I KNOW IN THE PACKET THAT YOU GOT ONLINE, THERE'S LIKE 100 PAGES.
THERE'S TWO PACKETS. ONE HAD ALL THE RED WRITING, AND THE RED WRITING WAS WHAT STAFF HAS CHANGED.
>> THE OTHER ONE IS ALL ONE COLOR, AND THAT'S WITH THE CHANGES IN IT.
NOW, BEFORE WE GET STARTED, WE HAD A DISCUSSION AT THE WORKSHOP.
BECAUSE WE'RE GOING TO BE DOING THIS FOR THE NEXT YEAR OR SO, WE'RE GOING TO PROBABLY BE DOING IT EVERY MEETING OR AT LEAST AT EVERY MEETING.
THERE'S A LOT OF INFORMATION THAT THEY GIVE US, AND SOME OF THE INFORMATION WITH SOME OF US HAVE NO CLUE WHAT THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT.
EACH OF US, AS WE GO THROUGH DIFFERENT CHAPTERS, WILL HAVE MORE EXPERIENCE IN THE INFORMATION HERE.
WHAT WE TALKED ABOUT IN THE WORKSHOP WAS, REALLY, THE MEAT OF THESE THINGS, IF YOU LOOK, LIKE ON THE SECOND PAGE, MINERAL RESOURCES, IT'LL GIVE YOU A LIST OF GOALS.
THAT'S THE GOALS OF THIS CHAPTER.
THEN IF YOU GO TO THE BACK, IT GIVES YOU A LIST OF IMPLEMENTATION STRATEGIES.
THAT'S HOW YOU'RE GOING TO ACCOMPLISH YOUR GOALS.
IN BETWEEN THOSE IS ALL THE STATISTICS AND THE STATE REGULATIONS AND THE MAPS AND ALL THE NUMBERS THAT YOU CAN SCAN THROUGH, BUT THAT'S REALLY THE MEAT OF THESE.
THESE ARE THE GOALS. LIKE MINERAL RESOURCES, THESE ARE THE GOALS OF OUR MINERAL RESOURCE CHAPTER, AND THESE ARE HOW WE'RE PROPOSING TO ACCOMPLISH THOSE GOALS.
IF YOU READ THOSE, YOU MAY HAVE A DIFFERENT GOAL OR A GOAL THAT YOU SUGGEST THAT MAYBE WE SHOULD DO, AND YOU MAY HAVE A STRATEGY TO SUGGEST SOMETHING THAT WE COULD PUT IN OR TAKE OUT.
HOPEFULLY, THAT HELPS A LITTLE BIT OVER THE NEXT YEAR OR SO AS WE GO THROUGH ALL THIS AND GET ALL THIS INFORMATION.
IT MAY MAKE IT A LITTLE BIT EASIER WHEN YOU'RE REVIEWING IT.
THE FIRST ONE THAT WE HAVE, LET'S DO THE MINERAL RESOURCES.
>> CAN I GO OVER THIS JUST A LITTLE BIT BEFORE WE START?
>> BY THE WAY, LET ME SAY THAT I DON'T KNOW IF YOU-ALL ARE HERE TO COMMENT ON THESE,
[00:10:01]
WE'RE GOING TO DISCUSS THEM, AND WHEN WE GET DONE WITH EACH CHAPTER, WE'LL DISCUSS THEM SEPARATELY, WE'LL ASK IF YOU HAVE ANY COMMENTS.WE'LL ASK. LET US FUMBLE THROUGH THESE, BUT WE'LL GIVE YOU A CHANCE TO SAY SOMETHING.
>> THANKS. YOU SAID ALL OF THAT SO VERY WELL, THANK YOU, BECAUSE IT WAS PRETTY MUCH CLOSE TO WHAT I WAS GOING TO SAY.
I DO JUST WANT TO ADD THAT THE MINERAL RESOURCE CHAPTER WAS ADOPTED IN 2018.
I HAVE A TYPO RIGHT THERE, BUT REMEMBER, I'M A NEWBIE, SO THERE'S MY EXCUSE FOR THAT, BUT THAT CHAPTER DOES NOT HAVE A CHAPTER NUMBER YET, AND THAT'S WHY.
AS WE GO THROUGH ALL OF THESE, WE'RE GOING TO BE LOOKING AT THE ORDER OF THEM, SO THE CHAPTER NUMBERS MAY CHANGE WHEN WE GET TO THE FINAL DRAFT, BUT WE WILL ALSO BE UPDATING AND CLEANING UP ANY OF THE DIFFERENT FONT SIZES OR THE WAY THINGS ARE LAID OUT IF THEY DON'T MATCH BETWEEN ONE CHAPTER TO ANOTHER.
WHEN WE GET TO THE VERY FINAL DRAFT IN ABOUT A YEAR, HOPEFULLY, WE WILL PICK UP ALL THOSE THINGS AND CLEAN THEM UP.
>> YOU KNOW WHY THEY'RE KICKING YOU TOO TOO HARD ON GRAMMAR.
>> WE'LL GO THROUGH AND CLEAN EVERYTHING UP A LITTLE BETTER THAN MAYBE WHAT YOU SEE ON SOME OF THESE, TRYING TO DO IT BEFORE IT GETS TO YOU AS WELL.
WE WILL PROBABLY BE ADDING SOME ADDITIONAL MAPS.
SOME OF THEM ARE BEING WORKED ON, AND SOME ARE A LITTLE BIT HARDER COMING ACROSS THE INFORMATION.
YOU SAID THAT VERY WELL, THOUGH, AS FAR AS YOU DID GET TWO DIFFERENT COPIES OF EACH CHAPTER THAT YOU'RE REVIEWING TONIGHT.
THAT RED LINE ONE WAS JUST SO THAT YOU COULD SEE HOW WE GOT TO THE CLEAN COPY.
ANYTHING THAT'S IN RED THAT HAS A STRIKEOUT IS WHAT WAS IN THE 2010 APPROVED COMPREHENSIVE PLAN THAT WE'RE TAKING OUT.
ANYTHING THAT'S JUST RED WORDING IS WHAT'S BEING ADDED IN FOR THIS 2026 COMP PLAN, BUT AS STATED, THE BIGGEST THING IS LOOKING AT WHAT ARE THE GOALS, AND THEN LOOKING AT THE IMPLEMENTATION STRATEGIES, THERE SHOULD BE ONE FOR ONE TIT FOR TAT SO THAT YOU HAVE A GOAL AND YOU HAVE THAT IMPLEMENTATION AND IF YOU WANT TO ADD ANYTHING OR CHANGE ANYTHING.
YOU WANTED TO START WITH THE MINERAL ONE FIRST?
[Mineral Resources Elements & Resource Conservation]
>> WHICH ONE WOULD YOU LIKE TO START WITH?
>> WE'LL DO WHATEVER YOU WANT.
THAT'S FINE. WE'LL DO MINERAL FIRST.
>> IT WAS JUST NOT AS THICK AS THE OTHER ONE.
>> I THOUGHT YOU MIGHT WANT TO SAVE THE EASY ONE FOR LAST.
I KNOW YOU GUYS HAVE READ THIS FRONT TO BACK, AT LEAST THREE OR FOUR TIMES.
>> WE CAN GIVE YOU A LITTLE BACKGROUND ON THE MINERAL RESOURCES CHAPTER.
[Mineral Resources Background]
AS OLIVIA SAID, IT DID NOT EXIST AS ITS OWN CHAPTER IN THE 2010 PLAN.IT WAS ACTUALLY, A SECTION OF THE RESOURCE CONSERVATION CHAPTER.
THEN IN 2017, THE STATE ADDED IT AS A REQUIRED SEPARATE STANDALONE CHAPTER.
IN 2017, THE COUNTY DRAFTED WHAT YOU HAVE IN FRONT OF YOU, THE RED LINE VERSION, AND IT WAS ADOPTED IN 2018.
THE RED LINE EDITS ARE MADE IN THIS, BUT IT WAS NOT PART OF THE PLAN BACK WHEN THE PLAN WAS ADOPTED IN 2010.
WHILE WE WERE WORKING ON THIS MINERAL RESOURCES ELEMENT, THE COUNTY WAS ALSO IN THE MIDST OF A MORATORIUM ON SAND AND GRAVEL MINING OPERATIONS.
>> IS LIKE A YEAR TO ADOPT NEW MINERAL RESOURCE REGULATIONS.
YOU-ALL HAVE A COPY. THAT'S WHAT THESE ARE.
THOSE WERE BEING ADOPTED AT THE SAME TIME THAT THIS DRAFT CHAPTER WAS BEING ADOPTED.
THE ORIGINAL REGULATIONS FOR MINERAL RESOURCES, YOU'LL SEE ON PAGE 3 WERE NOT EVEN HALF A PAGE IN THE CODE.
ALL OF THE REST OF THIS DOCUMENT IS THE NEW REGS FOR SAND AND GRAVEL MINING OPERATIONS.
WHEN THE NEW MINERAL RESOURCES ELEMENT WAS BEING DRAFTED, THEY WERE DRAFTING IT WITH THESE NEW REGS IN MIND JUST TO GIVE YOU SOME CONTEXT ON THE MINERAL RESOURCES ELEMENT.
>> EVEN THOUGH I SAID IT SHOULD BE EVEN AS FAR AS YOUR GOALS AND YOUR STRATEGIES, YOU SHOULD AT LEAST HAVE THE SAME AMOUNT OF STRATEGY BULLETS AS YOU DO GOALS.
YOU MAY END UP HAVING SOME ADDITIONAL STRATEGY POINTS AT THE BACK.
FOR INSTANCE, IF YOU HAVE A GOAL, AND IN ORDER TO REACH THAT GOAL, YOU NEED TO DO MORE THAN ONE THING, IT MAY BE BROKEN OUT INTO SEPARATE LINE ITEMS,
[00:15:03]
BUT I DON'T KNOW IF YOU WANT TO REVIEW EVERY SINGLE PAGE OR IF YOU JUST WANT TO GO THROUGH THE GOALS AND THE STRATEGIES AND TALK ABOUT THOSE AND COMMENT/>> IF WE HAVE ANY COMMENTS, THEN YOU CAN POINT OUT SPECIFIC THINGS IN THE PLAN.
OR IS THERE ANYTHING NOTABLE IN HERE THAT YOU CHANGE THAT'S THE OH, MY GOD STUFF?
>> FOR THE MINERAL RESOURCES, NOT REALLY.
LIKE LESLIE SAID, IT WAS ORIGINALLY IN THE RESOURCE CONSERVATION, AND THEN IT HAD TO BE PULLED OUT AS A SEPARATE CHAPTER.
IT BLOSSOMED A LITTLE BIT MORE ALONG WITH THE REGULATION THAT WAS TAKING PLACE AT THE SAME TIME, LIKE SHE SAID.
FOR THE MOST PART, THERE'S NOTHING REALLY THAT HAS CHANGED OTHER THAN WHEN YOU LOOK AT SOME OF THE IMPLEMENTATION THAT HAS TAKEN PLACE SINCE THAT WENT INTO EFFECT IN 2018.
THERE MAY BE SOME ADDITIONAL WORDING THAT WE CAN PUT IN THERE TO SHOW WHAT HAS BEEN DONE OR WHAT'S BEING DONE, BUT FOR THE MOST PART, THIS REALLY ISN'T ONE THAT HAD VERY MANY CHANGES.
A LOT OF IT WAS STATISTICS AND NUMBERS.
>> THEN IF YOU LOOK AT THE RED LINE COPY, ONE OF THE STRATEGIES WHEN THIS CHAPTER WAS ADOPTED IN 2018 WAS TO HAVE SITE PLAN REVIEW AND A BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS PROCESS AND WHAT YOU NEEDED TO PUT IN PLACE AS FAR AS WITH THE CODE, AND THAT HAS BEEN DONE.
THERE IS A SITE PLAN REVIEW AND BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS PROCESS NOW.
THERE'S BONDING REQUIREMENTS FOR MINING OPERATIONS FOR REPAIR AND IMPROVEMENTS TO TRANSPORTATION ROUTES WHERE MINERAL RESOURCE TRAFFIC IS OCCURRING.
IT'S MORE UPDATING ON THIS ONE OF WHAT HAS BEEN DONE TO MEET THE STRATEGIES THAT WERE PUT IN PLACE BEFORE, BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN YOU CAN'T ADD ANY OR REVISE THAT WORDING. SAME WITH THE GOALS.
>> ALL RIGHT. WE WANT TO GO THROUGH THE GOALS FIRST.
[Goals & Strategies]
>> WE CAN GO THROUGH THE GOALS FIRST.
YES. THERE'S AN OVERARCHING GOAL OR GOAL STATEMENT AND THEN THE OBJECTIVES THEY'RE SYNONYMOUS, BUT WE SEGREGATE THEM BECAUSE OF THE STATE REQUIREMENT FOR GOALS AND OBJECTIVES.
OBJECTIVES SHOULD BE IN SUPPORT OF THE GOAL.
>> YES AND THAT'S A BIG THING.
YOU WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY MATCH, DO THE STRATEGIES PUT INTO PLACE TO MEET THE GOALS.
I CAN READ THROUGH THESE TO HELP OUR AUDIENCE MEMBERS AND ANYBODY THAT'S ONLINE. WE CAN DO THAT.
>> IF YOU'RE WORKING FROM YOUR WORKSHOP COPY, WE MOVE THE GOALS TO PAGE 1 IN THE MEETING PACKAGE.
BUT THEY'RE THE SAME GOALS [OVERLAPPING]
>> I'LL JUST READ THROUGH THE GOALS.
WILL THAT WORK? I'LL READ THROUGH THE GOALS FOR EVERYBODY.
>> WE HAVE EIGHT GOALS. FIRST ONE.
EMPHASIZE TO THE MARYLAND DEPARTMENT OF THE ENVIRONMENT, MDE, THE CRITICAL IMPORTANCE OF THE RECLAMATION AND BONDING REQUIREMENTS ATTACHED TO THE MINING PERMITS THAT ARE ISSUED BY MDE IN LIGHT OF THE GEOLOGIC CONDITIONS AND LIMITATIONS ON REUSE OF MINE LAND WITHIN THE COUNTY.
SECOND ONE, EMPHASIZE TO MDE THE IMPORTANCE OF PUBLIC DRAINAGE DITCHES THAT CRISS-CROSS MUCH OF THE RURAL LAND IN THE COUNTY WHERE MINING IS PERMITTED AND THE MAINTENANCE OF WHICH IS CRITICAL TO THE PRODUCTIVE USE OF THE VAST MAJORITY OF SUCH RURAL LAND SO THAT MDE IS CAREFUL TO HAVE ANY MINING OPERATION CLEARLY IDENTIFY SUCH DRAINAGE SYSTEMS ON THE LAND THAT IS TO BE MINED AND WILL INCLUDE CONDITIONS IN ANY MINING PERMIT ISSUED THAT ENSURES THE DRAINAGE SYSTEMS ARE MAINTAINED AND NOT ADVERSELY IMPACTED BY MINING OPERATIONS.
NUMBER 3, CONSERVE MAJOR ACCESSIBLE MINERAL RESOURCE DEPOSITS FOR FUTURE EXTRACTION.
NUMBER 4, PROTECT CURRENT RESIDENTIAL AREAS AND FUTURE RESIDENTIAL GROWTH AREAS FROM SURFACE MINING ACTIVITIES.
NUMBER 5, SAFEGUARD THE PUBLIC BY MINIMIZING IMPACTS RESULTING FROM EXTRACTION AND TRANSPORT OF RESOURCE DEPOSITS.
NUMBER 6, PROTECT TAXPAYERS BY ENSURING THAT MINING AND EXTRACTION OPERATIONS
[00:20:04]
PROVIDE FUNDING TO OFFSET THE COST OF ANY NECESSARY IMPROVEMENTS TO INFRASTRUCTURE.NUMBER 7, PRESERVE THE AGRICULTURAL AND SCENIC CHARACTER OF CAROLINE COUNTY AND NUMBER 8, PRESERVE PRODUCTIVE AGRICULTURAL LAND AS A RENEWABLE RESOURCE AND THE BACKBONE OF LOCAL ECONOMY.
I DON'T KNOW IF YOU WANT TO TALK ABOUT ANY OF THESE OR JUST GO RIGHT INTO, LET'S LOOK AT THE STRATEGIES.
>> I'M SURE YOU NOTICED THAT THE BULK OF THESE OBJECTIVES ARE MOSTLY TO PROTECT LAND USES AND ENVIRONMENTAL RESOURCES FROM THE IMPACTS OF MINING THAT WAS AN INTENT WHEN THIS CHAPTER WAS DEVELOPED.
>> WOULD YOU ALL LIKE TO DISCUSS THESE FIRST?
>> IS THERE ANY REASONING FOR THE ORDER? MAYBE I HAVE ORDER COPY.
THE PRESERVE THE AGRICULTURE AND SCENIC CHARACTER ARE THE FIRST ONES.
>> YOU MEAN LIKE FIRST PRIORITY, LAST PRIORITY?
>> IF THEY'RE IN HERE, THEY'RE ALL CONSIDERED PRIORITY.
>> I SEE IT'S IN THE PACKET AND RESOURCES IS THE FIRST ONE.
>> WELL, I GOT TO GET DOWN TO IT.
BECAUSE EVEN WHAT YOU READ IS DIFFERENT FROM WHAT I HAVE FROM THE WORKSITE.
WE STILL HAVE NO CONTROL OVER OUR MINING OPERATIONS, RIGHT?
>> WELL, THERE IS A STATEMENT.
THE SURFACE MINING ACT DOES NOT PREEMPT THE COUNTY ZONING AUTHORITY.
TO THE CONTRARY, THE ACT PROVIDES THAT MDE CANNOT ISSUE A SURFACE MINING PERMIT UNTIL THE COUNTY HAS COMPLETED ITS REVIEW OF THE PROPOSED LAND USE AND PROVIDED MDE WITH A WRITTEN STATEMENT THAT THE PROPOSED LAND USE CONFORMS WITH ALL APPLICABLE COUNTY ZONING AND LAND USE REQUIREMENTS.
>> THIS CHAPTER WAS ASSISTED BY THE NEW REGS, WHICH BEFORE THE NEW REGULATIONS WERE CREATED, IT REALLY FELL TO THE BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS IN THEIR REVIEW PROCESS TO ESTABLISH RULES LIKE WHAT BUFFER WOULD BE REQUIRED AND SETBACKS AND TRUCK TRAFFIC AND HOURS AND NOISE AND I THINK THOSE DETERMINATIONS WERE MADE BASED ON THE SITE OF THE OPERATION AND WHAT THE NEIGHBORING USES WERE SO THEY VARIED IN THEIR REQUIREMENTS AND SO THE GOAL OF THE REGULATIONS WAS TO MAKE UNIFORM REGULATIONS SO THAT IT'S ARBITRARY, IS NOT THE WORD, BUT THAT THEY WERE CONSISTENT FOR ALL SAND AND GRAVEL MINING OPERATIONS.
I THINK THAT HELPS DEFEND A REVIEW AND SPECIAL CONDITIONS OR CONDITIONS THAT ARE REQUIRED OF THE OPERATION.
THEY STILL REQUIRE A SPECIAL USE EXCEPTION AT THE BCA AND SITE FINAL SITE PLAN REVIEW HERE AT THE PLANNING COMMISSION, BUT YOU NOW HAVE A SOLID FRAMEWORK TO WORK FROM ON ALL OF THOSE TYPES OF CONDITIONS FROM BUFFERS TO TRAFFIC TO SURROUNDING LAND USES.
>> NOW, ONE THING TO CONSIDER THAT I HAVEN'T SEEN HERE IS BELIEVE IT OR NOT, THERE'S DIFFERENT TYPES OF MINING OPERATIONS AND DIFFERENT PERMITS THAT MDE ISSUES ON A CASE BY CASE BASIS.
FOR ONE EXAMPLE, SOME OF THESE SURFACE MINES DO NOT HAVE DISCHARGE PERMITS, SOME DO, WHICH IS AN MDE PERMIT THAT ALLOWS YOU TO DISCHARGE GROUNDWATER OR SURFACE WATER OFF SITE.
NOW WITH THOSE PERMITS, THERE'S SUBSTANTIAL REPORTING REQUIREMENTS TO BOTH MDE AND THE EPA AND TESTING THAT HAS TO BE DONE MONTHLY, WITH REPORTS TO SHOW THAT YOU'RE NOT DISCHARGING ANY MORE SEDIMENT OR ANY HAZARDOUS NATURAL SUBSTANCE THAT MAY BE THERE.
THERE'S ALSO WHAT'S CALLED A WATER APPROPRIATIONS PERMIT, WHICH IS A PERMIT THAT PROBABLY MOST OF THE LARGER PITS OR SURFACE MINING OPERATIONS WOULD HAVE, WHICH IS A PERMIT WHERE MDE BASICALLY ALLOWS YOU TO USE GROUNDWATER TO WASH THE SAND OR WASH THE GRAVEL CLEAN.
>> IT'S A WATER APPROPRIATION PERMIT.
[00:25:03]
IN MANY CASE, I DON'T KNOW THAT IT'S A WITHDRAWAL PERMIT BECAUSE THE WATER TABLE SO HIGH, YOU USE SHALLOW WATER SO YOU DON'T REALLY TAP INTO AN OR ANYTHING, YOU JUST USE THE PERCHED GROUNDWATER TABLE AND YOU USE IT TO WASH YOUR PRODUCT CLEAN, EITHER THE SAND OR THE GROUND.>> YEAH AND IN MANY CASES, THAT DOESN'T GET DISCHARGED.
THAT JUST STAYS IN THE SITE BECAUSE IT BECOMES SILTY, IT BECOMES REALLY DIRTY BECAUSE YOU'RE USING THE WATER TO REMOVE THE SILTS AND SEDIMENT.
>> YOU DIG A HOLE WITH FILLED UP WITH WATER RIGHT.
YOU RUN THE PUMP, PUMP IT OUT OF THE WATER PUMP IT THROUGH THE WATER.
>> RIGHT, AND IT JUST RUNS BACK INTO THE RIGHT LINE.
>> OUR LOCATIONS, THE TWO THAT WE OPERATE, THEY HAVE DISCHARGE PERMITS.
I KNOW ABOUT THE REPORTING AND THE TESTING.
WE HAVE LABCORP OUT OF HARRINGTON COMES OVER AND TESTS OURS MONTHLY AND WE'VE GOT TO ENTER ALL THAT IN AND REPORT IT.
I DON'T KNOW ABOUT THE WATER APPROPRIATION PERMITS BECAUSE WE DON'T DO ANY WASHING, BUT YOUR SAND MINING OPERATIONS, THE BIG SAND MINE OPERATIONS ALL SHOULD HAVE WATER APPROPRIATION PERMITS BECAUSE THEY'RE ACTUALLY USING GROUNDWATER TO PRODUCE A PRODUCT AND THEN TYPICALLY YOU'RE SMALLER LIKE A AG FARMERS THAT HAVE SURFACE MINING PERMITS PROBABLY DON'T HAVE EITHER.
THEY MAY HAVE A WATER APPROPRIATION FOR IRRIGATION.
>> THEY STILL HAVE TO REPORT OUT OF A POND.
>> WHICH SOME OF THESE ARE PROBABLY USING.
>> RIGHT OR DRAWING OUT FOR IRRIGATION.
I DON'T KNOW IF THEY REQUIRE A DISCHARGE PERMIT OR WATER APPROPRIATION PERMIT.
>> YOU HAVE TO TURN IN YOUR GALLONS TO THE WATER APPROPRIATION PERMIT.
>> WE GET OR WE USED TO GET, I HAVEN'T SINCE DON WILSON LEFT COPIES OF THE GAP APPLICATIONS AND NOTICES OF PEOPLE APPLYING FOR GROUNDWATER APPROPRIATION PERMITS, BUT WE DON'T GET THEM ANYMORE, BECAUSE THAT WAS A GOOD WAY TO TRACK ALL OF THOSE.
>> I WONDER IF IT'S PERTINENT INFORMATION TO SEGREGATE AND REPORT ON BECAUSE THEY'RE REALLY VERY DIFFERENT, EVEN THOUGH THEY'RE ALL SURFACE MINING OPERATIONS.
FOR EXAMPLE, AN AG POND OR THERE'S SAY, A DOZEN OPERATIONS LIKE OURS THAT IT'S MORE STRUCTURAL FILL, MOST OF THAT MATERIAL STAYS LOCAL.
PROBABLY STAYS IN CAROLINE, DORCHESTER, TALBOT, QUEEN ANNE, MAYBE SUSSEX COUNTY OVER IN DELAWARE.
THAT STUFF PRETTY MUCH STAYS LOCAL.
ANYBODY WITH A WATER APPROPRIATION PERMIT, THAT MATERIAL IS GOING ANYWHERE FROM YORK, PENNSYLVANIA TO BALTIMORE, DC.
IT MAY GET BARGED TO NORTHERN VIRGINIA.
WITH THOSE TYPES OF PERMITS, THAT'S WHERE YOU SEE THE LARGER TRUCK VOLUME AND THE LARGER TRAFFIC AND THE POTENTIAL FOR BACKHAULING.
FOR EXAMPLE, ONE OPERATION THAT IS PROBABLY GOING TO CLOSE UP AROUND BRIDGETOWN, THEY BACK HAUL STONE FROM QUARRIES ACROSS THE BRIDGE AND ACTUALLY HAVE A RESALE YARD THERE.
THAT'S ANOTHER THING TO CONSIDER, NOT ONLY ARE THEY SELLING A MINE PRODUCT.
THEY'RE SELLING A PRODUCT THAT IS BACKHAULED AND TRUCK BACK IN.
>> TO THE SITE IN CAROLINE COUNTY?
>> YEAH. IT'S A STONE PICKUP YARD AS WELL.
>> MATT AND CRYSTAL ARE THE EXPERTS ON THIS CHAPTER AND UNFORTUNATELY, YOU GOT US.
>> THAT WOULD BE MY FIRST QUESTION RIGHT THERE.
>> YEAH, WELL, JUST THINGS TO CONSIDER.
IT MIGHT BE MUCH MORE COMPLEX, NOT THAT THIS ISN'T ENOUGH PAGES FOR US.
>> THEY'RE SHIPPING SO FAR AWAY THAT THEY BACKLOADED THEM DRUGS.
>> STONE FROM COREY'S OUT AND FREDERICK, COME BACK.
>> MY QUESTION WOULD BE, TWO QUESTIONS, ACTUALLY.
THE PERMITS FOR ANY OF THEM, WHETHER THEY'RE SMALLER OR LARGER OPERATIONS, DIFFERENT TYPES, HAVE TO GO THROUGH MDE?
>> THERE ARE REQUIREMENTS THAT WOULD HAVE TO BE PUT IN PLACE AND YOU NOW HAVE SITE PLAN REQUIREMENTS AND RESTRICTIONS SO IT WOULD COME THROUGH PLANNING AND CODES AND THROUGH THE PLANNING COMMISSION, RIGHT?
>> THE LEGISLATION SEGREGATES THEM INTO MINOR AND MAJOR MINERAL EXTRACTION OPERATIONS.
[00:30:01]
THE MINORS ARE FIVE ACRES OR LESS AND IT'S DEVELOPING A POND FOR IRRIGATION OR RECREATIONAL USE AND THEN MAJOR IS EVERYTHING ABOVE THAT THAT ALSO REQUIRES A PERMIT FROM MDE FOR MINERAL EXTRACTION.>> NOW, IS THAT COUNTY OR IS THAT STATE?
>> YEAH. [OVERLAPPING] WHERE THEY MAKE THE DISTINCTION BETWEEN THE ICONS.
>> DOES MDE MAKE ANY STRUCTURE?
>> THAT IS A QUESTION MATT PROBABLY COULD HAVE ANSWERED. BUT I'M GOING TO ASK HIM.
>> DO YOU HAVE CONCERNS THAT WE'RE MISSING SOMETHING?
>> IN THE WATER APPROPRIATION PROCESS?
>> WELL, THIS IS THE GUIDELINE FOR BZA AND PLANNING COMMISSION TO FOLLOW, RIGHT? WHAT I'M THINKING IS THAT THE GUIDELINE SHOULD PROBABLY DIRECT THE PLANNING COMMISSION AND THE BZA TO LOOK AT DIFFERENT THINGS DEPENDING ON WHAT MDE PERMITS ARE GOING TO BE OBTAINED? FOR INSTANCE, IF YOU GET A WATER APPROPRIATION PERMIT, THEN YOU'RE GOING TO PUT UP A WASH PLANT, WHICH IS A PERMANENT STRUCTURE THAT RUNS THE RAW MATERIAL THROUGH AND EXPOSES IT TO WATER AND THE WATER REMOVES THE SILTS AND OTHER IMPURITIES AND PRODUCES EITHER A GRAVEL PRODUCT OR A SAND PRODUCT.
YOU'RE ADDING ANOTHER PROCESS AND THEN YOU'RE OPENING THE DOOR FOR CONSIDERATION.
ARE THEY GOING TO BACKHAUL? DO THEY WANT TO BE ABLE TO BACKHAUL MATERIAL BECAUSE IF YOU HAVE A WASH PLANT, YOU'RE PROBABLY HAULING FURTHER AWAY.
IF YOU'RE WASHING AND CREATING MATERIAL, YOU'RE PROBABLY TAKING IT TO A CONCRETE PLANT OR AN ASPHALT PLANT.
JUST LIKE WE DON'T HAVE ANY STONE HERE, FREDERICK AND BALTIMORE AND DC, I DON'T KNOW ABOUT RICHMOND THAT'S FAR AWAY, BUT LET'S SAY PENNSYLVANIA, PHILADELPHIA, YORK DOES NOT HAVE SAND.
WE GET THEIR STONE PRODUCTS BROUGHT HERE, WHICH WE USE TO PUT IN OUR ASPHALT CONCRETE, ON OUR DRIVEWAYS, ON OUR ROADS AND THEY TAKE OUR SAND AND PUT IT IN THEIR ASPHALT OR IN THEIR CONCRETE FOR WHATEVER THEY'RE DOING.
MAYBE THE PLANNING COMMISSION, ONE OF THE QUESTIONS THAT PLANNING COMMISSION AND BZA SHOULD BE ASKING IS, DO YOU INTEND TO BACK HOME MATERIAL FROM OTHER AREAS IN THE REGION AND RESELL? [OVERLAPPING].
>> IT'S PART OF THE REQUIREMENTS BECAUSE THEY ARE REQUIRED, IF YOU LOOK ON PAGE 5 OF THE REGS.
>> DOES EVERYBODY ALWAYS DO WHAT THEY'RE REQUIRED?
>> NO. [LAUGHTER] IT ACTUALLY DOESN'T CALL ANY OF THAT OUT.
UNDER THE OPERATIONS PLAN REQUIREMENTS.
WHAT YOU'RE SUGGESTING IT'S ADDING A STRATEGY THAT SAYS ADD THAT TO THE INFO REQUIRED DURING THE BZA AND PLANNING COMMISSION REVIEW.
IN YOUR OPERATIONS PLAN, WE WANT TO KNOW THESE THINGS.
IS THERE GOING TO BE WASHING? IS THERE GOING TO BE BACKHAULING?
>> NOW, THE BACKHAUL, WHAT'S THAT CHANGE? OTHER THAN IT BECOMES A RETAIL BUSINESS, IT DOES. THEY'RE NOT EXTRACTING.
ALL THEY'RE DOING IS [OVERLAPPING] IF IT'S COMING BACK FOR A SECOND LOAD OF THE DAY, IT CAN RUN EMPTY FROM FREDERICK OR IT CAN RUN LOADED AND THERE'S NO OWNER OPERATOR IS GOING TO RUN EMPTY SO HE CAN BRING STONE BAG DUMP IT IN A PILE, GET SOME SAND AND GO AGAIN.
>> OR THEY COULD TAKE IT TO A CONCRETE PLANT IN GEORGETOWN, DELAWARE AND COME BACK AND GET SAND OR HAUL IT DIRECTLY TO A JOB OR TO A DRIVE.
>> IT'S JUST BEING USED AS LIKE A TEMPORARY DEPOT?
>> YEAH. BUT ANYBODY CAN GO IN THERE, YOU COULD GO IN THERE WITH A LITTLE LANDSCAPE TRUCK AND GET A LOAD OF STONE.
>> I DON'T KNOW WHAT IT'S OWNED OUT THERE.
>> BUT IT'S NOT ONLY THAT, THEY'RE ALSO SELLING THEIR SAND THAT THEY'RE MAKING.
>> RIGHT. DIRECT RETAIL THERE.
>> BUT I JUST THINK IT'S THINGS TO CONSIDER AND WHAT IT WOULD CHANGE, IT COULD INCREASE THE AMOUNT OF TRUCK TRAFFIC BECAUSE THEN YOU HAVE A RESALE YARD, YOU HAVE SOMEBODY GOING OUT THERE AND IT DOES MAKE A DIFFERENCE AS FAR AS ROAD DEPENDING ON IF THE TRUCKS LOADED IN BOTH DIRECTIONS OR IF THE ONLY LOADED IN ONE DIRECTION.
>> IT DOES SAY IN THE OPERATIONS PLAN CONTENT, THE TOTAL ACREAGE OF EACH PARCEL ON WHICH EXTRACTION OR PROCESSING WILL OCCUR AND OR ON WHICH A WASH PLANT WILL BE OPERATED.
>> IN A WASH PLANT, SOMETHING ELSE TO CONSIDER WITH A WASH PLANT IS TYPICALLY YOU HAVE CONVEYORS.
YOUR STRUCTURES ARE A LOT TALLER.
I DON'T KNOW IF WE HAVE HEIGHT REQUIREMENTS,
[00:35:02]
WITH THE SCREENING YOU COULD HAVE A TOWER OR CONVEYORS THAT WOULD REALLY BE UP IN THE AIR HIGHER.>> THE EXTENT OF YOUR WASH OPERATION OR?
>> MAYBE MAXIMUM HEIGHT OF THE PROPOSED EQUIPMENT.
MAYBE SOMETHING THAT WOULD BE A GOOD QUESTION TO ASK.
>> THE SAID PANELS HAVE HEIGHT RESTRICTION?
>> WE'LL SIT DOWN WITH MATT TOMORROW.
>> ALL I'M GETTING AT IS IT SOUNDS LIKE ONE OF THOSE THINGS WHERE IT'S SIMPLE.
ALL SURFACE MINDS ARE CREATED THE SAME.
WHAT I'M GETTING AT IS THEY'RE VERY DIFFERENT.
>> [OVERLAPPING] BECAUSE YOU GOT SOME PEOPLE RUNNING A PIT.
THEY JUST TAKE SOME DIRT WHEN THEY NEED IT.
WITH THAT, THEY WANT TO ADD [INAUDIBLE].
THEN YOU HAVE A BRIDGE DOWN WITH YOUR 100 TRUCKS A DAY.
>> IT'S REALLY THE INTENSITY OF THE OPERATION YOU'RE TRYING TO GAUGE.
IS IT LOW INTENSITY OR IS IT HIGH?
>> WELL, THE INTENSITY, BUT ALSO WHAT THE DIFFERENT PROCESSES ARE, BECAUSE THAT COULD HAVE AN IMPACT OF WHAT YOU REVIEW AND WHAT YOU MIGHT REQUIRE AS FAR AS ADDITIONAL ROAD IMPROVEMENTS OR ADDITIONAL BUFFERS.
>> [OVERLAPPING] ADD LIMITATIONS.
>> MAYBE WE COULD ADD LANGUAGE UNDER THE STRATEGIES OF ADD ADDITIONAL REQUIREMENTS FOR MORE DETAIL FOR BZA AND PNC SITE PLAN REQUIREMENTS FOR PROCESSES, HEIGHT REQUIREMENTS, OR RESTRICTIONS, [OVERLAPPING] ADDITIONAL BUFFER OR LANDSCAPE BUFFER, OR SETBACKS.
>> WELL, WHAT I WAS GOING TO SAY IS IF YOU DID THAT AS A BLANKET STATEMENT, THEN WHEN YOU GET TO YOUR ZONING CODE UPDATE AFTER THIS IS ADOPTED, THAT'S WHERE YOU'RE GOING TO PUT THE MEET OF SPECIFIC FOR THIS OPERATION, IF YOU HAVE A, B AND C, YOU HAVE A HEIGHT RESTRICTION OF X.
FOR THIS TYPE OF PROCESS, THE HEIGHT RESTRICTION MIGHT BE DIFFERENT, DEPENDING ON WHAT IT IS OR WHERE IT IS.
THAT'S WHEN YOU REALLY GET DOWN INTO THE DETAILED-DETAILS.
>> I WOULDN'T PUT ANYTHING ON AS FAR AS THE HEIGHT RESTRICTION BECAUSE IT WOULD ALL DEPEND ON THE SIZE OF THE PARCEL, DISTANCE, AND YOUR ABILITY TO SCREEN IT.
>> ARE YOU IN THE MIDDLE OF A 400-ACRE FIELD OR UP AGAINST THE SUBDIVISION?
>> WELL, BUT IF YOU WERE UP AGAINST THE SUBDIVISION, MAYBE YOU WOULD, [OVERLAPPING].
>> LIKE YOU SAID, THEY DON'T HAVE TO BE HIGH.
IT COULD BE LONG. YOU JUST KEEP MOVING IT.
>> DOES THAT SOUND LIKE THAT WOULD MEET WHAT YOU'RE TRYING TO ACHIEVE? WE'LL DO, LIKE A BLANKET STATEMENT FOR THE STRATEGY, AND THEN REALLY DIG DEEP INTO IT WITH THE ZONING CODE ON THE DAY?
>> THAT WOULD BE IN THE OPERATIONS PLAN REQUIREMENTS LANGUAGE GENERALLY.
>> YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THE PERMITTING PROCESS, IS THERE ANY LANGUAGE ABOUT, ARE THEY IN GOOD FAITH WITH MDE ON THEIR PERMITTING PROCESS? YOU HAVE THESE ANNUAL REPORTS.
IF THEY'RE NOT KEEPING UP WITH THEIR ANNUAL REPORTS, IS THERE ANY?
>> I HAD ASKED MATT THAT QUESTION WHEN WE WERE GOING OVER THIS, AND I HAVE AN EMAIL TO A CONTACT AT MDE.
IF THEY ABANDON ANY OF THE MINES, YOU HAVE TO RENEW YOUR PERMIT, WHATEVER IT MIGHT BE, EVERY TWO YEARS, EVERY THREE YEARS, WHATEVER IT IS.
I ASKED THE QUESTION, WELL, IF THEY DON'T RENEW THEIR PERMIT, DO THEY NOTIFY THE COUNTY? MATT SAID, WELL, I'M NOT SURE BECAUSE I'VE NOT BEEN NOTIFIED MOST OF THEM.
I FEEL LIKE THIS IS A COUNTY IF SOMEBODY QUIT MINING, YOU WOULD KNOW IT.
BUT I JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT IF SOMEBODY DID NOT RENEW THEIR LICENSE, THAT THE COUNTY IS AWARE OF IT.
I DO HAVE AN EMAIL AND I'M TRYING TO GET THAT INFORMATION.
>> IF YOU MIGHT NOTED I'VE WANTED A BIG PITCH QUIT, BUT IF YOU JUST WANTED THE SMALL ONE [INAUDIBLE].
>> BUT YOU'RE ALSO ASKING ABOUT COMPLIANCE WITH THEIR PERMIT?
>> IT WOULDN'T JUST BE ABANDONMENT, BUT COMPLIANCE.
IS THERE ANYWAY TO REQUIRE LIKE, AN ANNUAL COMPLIANCE REPORT?
>> THEY'RE MDE PERMITS [OVERLAPPING].
>> YOU CAN CHECK TREATMENT PLANT COMPLIANCE ONLINE ANYWHERE.
I WONDER IF THERE'S SOMETHING LIKE THAT FOR MINING.
OR COULD THE OPERATOR BE REQUIRED TO SUBMIT HIS ANNUAL WHATEVER HE HAS TO SUBMIT TO MDE, TO SHOW COMPLIANCE OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
>> I WOULD HOPE THAT THE STATE NOTIFIES US WHEN THEY'RE GOING TO SELL A PIECE OF PROPERTY.
I THINK THEY WOULD NOTIFY US WHEN THEY FOUND A PERMIT HOLDER IN VIOLATION, BUT [OVERLAPPING].
>> I DON'T KNOW IF THERE'S REQUIREMENT FOR THEM TO NOTIFY THE LOCAL JURISDICTIONS.
[00:40:02]
>> WE'VE HAD A COUPLE OF EXPANSIONS COME TO OUR MEETING.
IF THEY HAVE NOT BEEN IN COMPLIANCE WITH MDE, WHY SHOULD WE GIVE THEM AN EXPANSION?
>> HONESTLY, MDE IS THE ONE, SO [OVERLAPPING].
>> WE DETERMINED THE PERMIT LIMITS WITH OUR SETBACKS, WITH OUR REGULATIONS AND OUR ORDINANCES DICTATE THE MINING LIMITS, ESSENTIALLY.
THEY'RE NOT GOING TO LET AN OPERATION MINE IN A WETLAND OR SOMETHING SENSITIVE LIKE THAT.
BUT IN MANY CASES, MOST OF THE MINING LIMITS ARE SET BY COUNTY ORDINANCE.
MDE INSPECTS RANDOM INSPECTS EVERY PERMIT HOLDER.
THEY HAVE A SURFACE MINING DIVISION THAT THAT'S ALL THEY DO, AND THEY GO AROUND AND DO RANDOM INSPECTIONS.
I'M ASSUMING PART OF THEIR INSPECTION PROCESS IS TO MAKE SURE THAT THE PERSON IS MINING WITHIN THE LIMIT OF DISTURBANCE OR THE MINING LIMITS.
REALLY, IF SOMEONE WAS IN VIOLATION, MORE THAN LIKELY THEY'D BE IN VIOLATION OF ONE OF OUR ORDINANCES, AND I DON'T KNOW THAT THERE'S A REQUIREMENT FOR MDE.
>> THAT WOULD BE A VIOLATION OF THEIR STATE PERMIT BECAUSE THEIR PERMIT REQUIRES THEM TO BE IN COMPLIANCE WITH OUR REGS.
THE QUESTION IS, IS ANYBODY CHECKING? THE STATE LEVEL [OVERLAPPING] THAT THEY'RE COMPLYING WITH OUR REGS.
>> WE WOULD HAVE TO CHECK. NOTICE, NOTHING SAY THAT MDE DOESN'T HAVE TO ENFORCE OUR REG.
>> WE DON'T HAVE ANYBODY RUNNING OUT CHECKING MINING?
>> IS THERE SOMETHING THAT YOU WANT TO PUT IN HERE?
>> NO. MAYBE WE SHOULD LOOK INTO DOES MDE HAVE A REQUIREMENT TO NOTIFY LOCAL JURISDICTION IF SOMEONE'S IN VIOLATION, AND MAYBE THAT'S A LEGISLATIVE REQUEST.
>> IT DOES SAY THAT THEY HAVE TO NOTIFY US FOR CESSATION OF OPERATIONS IN THE REGS.
IS THERE ANY WAY TO? I THINK YOU CAN HAVE MDE NOTIFY YOU OF ANY NON-COMPLIANCE, AT LEAST AND MAYBE WHEN YOU TALK TO THE GUY, ARE THEY CHECKING THAT HE'S COMPLYING WITH LOCAL AND STATE REGS?
>> BUT DO WE GET NOTIFIED IF A WASTEWATER TREATMENT PLAN IS NOT MEETING ITS DISCHARGE LIMITS?
>> I HEAR IT THROUGH THE GRAPEVINE.
BUT ONCE I CONTACT ABOUT THAT WASTEWATER TREATMENT PLAN, I GET PUT ON AN INTERESTED PARTY LIST AND I GET NOTIFIED AFTER THAT.
WE COULD PREEMPTIVELY SAY WE'RE INTERESTED PARTIES IN ALL OF THE PERMITS AND GET NOTIFIED.
I DON'T KNOW HOW MINING WORKS.
BUT THAT'S ANOTHER POTENTIAL DISCUSSION WITH MDE.
>> OR I WOULD SAY POTENTIALLY ANY DISCHARGE PERMIT OR [OVERLAPPING].
>> I THINK ENVIRONMENTAL HEALTH GETS NOTIFIED.
>> I HAVE THOSE AS QUESTIONS THAT WE CAN FIND OUT SOME ANSWERS AND SOME INFORMATION.
DO YOU WANT ANY SPECIFIC BULLET POINT AS AN IMPLEMENTATION RELATED TO THOSE?
>> I WOULD SAY, MAYBE REQUEST INFORMATION OR DETERMINE WHAT OTHER MDE PERMITS MAY BE OBTAINED IN CONJUNCTION WITH THE PROPOSED OPERATION.
YOU REALLY KNOW, ARE THEY ALSO OBTAINING A WATER APPROPRIATION PERMIT AND A DISCHARGE PERMIT? WE NEED TO KNOW IF THEY'RE GOING TO BE A RETAIL.
>> ASK IF THERE'S INTENTION TO BACK [OVERLAPPING].
IF THEY'RE IN THE C1 DISTRICT, THAT WOULDN'T BE A PROBLEM.
>> BUT IS THAT A USE WE WANT TO CONSIDER TO ALLOW IN R CONJUNCTION WITH A MINING PERMIT? I THINK WE PROBABLY SHOULD LOOK AT ALSO ALLOWING THE RETAIL.
[00:45:07]
I'M NOT SAYING AGAINST IT, BUT MAYBE WE SHOULD CONSIDER ALLOWING IT IN THE R1 AREA TO MAKE THOSE THAT ARE DOING IT, "LEGAL.">> LEGAL. PERHAPS DISCLOSE THE AMOUNT OF TRAFFIC.
THAT IS GOING TO ADD TO THE IN THE COUNTY ROADS.
>> BECAUSE THAT CHANGES WHEN YOU COME IN AND YOU WANT YOUR PERMIT FOR 100 TRUCKS A DAY.
YOU FORGOT TO TALK ABOUT ALL THE HOMEOWNERS THAT CAME IN THERE.
DOES YOUR 100 TRUCKS A DAY, THE LOCAL GUIDE IS RUNNING STONE BACK AND FORTH TO A CONCRETE PLANE? THAT'S NOT PART OF SAND. YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN?
>> ASK IF WASHING OF PRODUCTS IS GOING TO BE [OVERLAPPING].
>> NO. AS FAR AS WASHING, A WASH PLAN TO WASH SAND OR STONE, CONSIDER THAT IN THE REVIEW.
>> BECAUSE THEY WASH SAND AND THEY'RE WASHING STONE OUT AND THEY'RE SELLING STONE?
>> I KIND PICTURE LIKE A BLANKET STATEMENT IN HERE.
THEN THAT WOULD BE A SPECIFIC, LIKE, A CHECKLIST OF QUESTIONS WHEN THEY COME IN WITH THE SITE PLAN THAT THEY HAVE TO FILL OUT. ARE YOU DOING THIS? IF THE ANSWER TO THAT IS YES, THEN YOU HAVE TO ANSWER THE NEXT TWO QUESTIONS.
IF THE ANSWER IS NO, GO ON TO THE NEXT ONE TO CAPTURE ALL THAT, AND DEPENDING ON WHAT THOSE ANSWERS ARE, WE WOULD ALSO PUT INTO PLACE THE APPROPRIATE REQUIREMENTS AS FAR AS SETBACKS OR BUFFERS OR LANDSCAPING TAKEN INTO ACCOUNT WHERE IT IS, THE SIZE OF THE ACREAGE OR THE SIZE OF THE PARCEL, WHERE IT'S LOCATED.
I ALMOST THINK, SO FOR INSTANCE, DOES MDE NOTIFY FOR ANY NON-COMPLIANCE? WHAT DO THEY CHECK AT THE INSPECTIONS? DO THEY NOTIFY THE COUNTY OF ANY CHANGES? IF I CAN CONTACT SOMEBODY AT MDE AND GET THOSE ANSWERS, TO ME, YOU ALMOST NEED TO KNOW THE ANSWERS TO THOSE QUESTIONS TO KNOW IF YOU WANT TO PUT SOMETHING ELSE IN HERE.
>> THE ANSWERS TO THOSE QUESTIONS, YOU CAN PROBABLY COME UP WITH A RECOMMENDATION ABOUT WHAT BULLET POINT TO PUT IN THERE, CORRECT?
>> YEAH, ACTUALLY, THAT WILL HELP.
THEN WHAT WE WOULD DO WE [OVERLAPPING] NEED TO BACK WITH YOU.
HERE ARE THE EDITS YOU REQUESTED.
WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THESE AND HOW WE GOT AND WHAT THE INFO WE GOT IS?
>> THE ONLY OTHER THING WOULD BE THE EFFECTS OF THE OPERATION ON COUNTY INFRASTRUCTURE.
>> [OVERLAPPING] IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT?
>> ARE YOU LOOKING AT A SPECIFIC BULLET UNDER GOALS OR IMPLEMENTATION, OR YOU WANT TO ADD SOMETHING?
WHERE DID IT ADDRESS? DID IT ADDRESS IT IN THE IMPLEMENTATION STRATEGIES?
>> WELL, IT DOES SAY UTILIZE APPROPRIATE METHODS FOR PROTECTING EXISTING NEIGHBORHOODS FROM THE IMPACTS OF ADJACENT EXTRACTION OPERATIONS AND THE TRANSPORTATION OF EXTRACTED RESOURCES?
>> IF YOU LOOK AT THAT FIRST BULLET, ASSURE AVAILABLE MEASURES ARE TAKEN, CREATE AN ADDITIONAL ONE THAT SAYS THE SAME THING, BUT IT IS FOR THE TRANSPORTATION NETWORK AND NOT NATURAL.
>> I THINK IT DESERVES A STAND ALONE BULLET, PROBABLY IN BOLD BECAUSE IT'S PROBABLY THE MOST IMPORTANT THING FROM AN ACCOUNTING STANDPOINT, YOU NEED TO LOOK AT FIRST.
>> WHERE I WANT THE REST OF [OVERLAPPING].
I WOULD SAY IF TRANSPORTATION OR INFRASTRUCTURE.
>> BECAUSE IF WE USE INFRASTRUCTURE, THEN WE CHOOSE.
>> THE ONLY THING THAT [OVERLAPPING].
[LAUGHTER] SECOND BULLET UNDERNEATH THE FIRST ONE.
A SURE AVAILABLE MEASURES ARE TAKEN TO WHAT LANGUAGE WOULD YOU LIKE RELATED TO?
>> TO PROTECT THE TRANSPORTATION NETWORK FROM THE IMPACTS OF SURFACE MINING OPERATION.
[00:50:03]
THE TRUCK TRAFFIC FROM SURFACE MINING OPERATIONS, BUT WE'LL WRITE IT BETTER THAN THAT.>> WE WERE TALKING ABOUT MAKE IT GENERAL BUT NOT MAKE IT SOON.
>> INCREASED STRESS, SOMETHING TO THAT EFFECT.
INCREASED STRESS, PUT ON COUNTY INFRASTRUCTURE DUE TO THE HEAVIER LOAD OF THE PROPOSED VEHICULAR TRAFFIC.
AS I'M TELLING YOU, IN MANY CASES, WE'VE GOT ABOUT THAT MUCH HARDSHIP ON DIRT.
STATE HIGHWAYS HAVE ABOUT THAT MUCH ASPHALT ON ABOUT THAT MUCH STONE.
OUR INFRASTRUCTURE IN MANY CASES, JUST CANNOT SUSTAIN THE REPEATED TRAFFIC, AND I THINK THAT NEEDS TO BE FACTORED IN.
>> I DON'T KNOW THAT YOU [INAUDIBLE].
>> BUT THAT'S ONE OF THE MAIN THINGS.
>> WHAT WAS THE ONE YOU DIDN'T WANT TO FORGET?
>> SHOULD WE INCLUDE IN HERE THAT SOME STATEMENT THAT SAYS, IF A PROPERTY ADJOINS A STATE HIGHWAY, ALL AVENUES SHOULD BE EXHAUSTED TO GAIN ACCESS [OVERLAPPING] DIRECTLY TO THE STATE HIGHWAY.
>> THAT TAKES THE COUNTY OUT OF ANY, AND IT'S MUCH EASIER TO GET A PERMIT TO ENTER OFF A COUNTY ROAD THAN IT IS OFF A STATE ROAD.
IF AN OWNER OR DEVELOPER HAS A CHOICE, THEY'RE GOING TO GO COUNTY ROUTE.
>> OF COURSE, STATE HIGHWAY IS GOING TO BE LOOKING FOR THE LESSER ROAD FOR THAT TO BE ACCESSED.
IT'S NOT SO MUCH THE WEAR AND TEAR, IT'S THE ACCESS POINTS.
YOU WANT TO LIMIT THOSE AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE ON A STATE ROAD.
I JUST THINK ALL THE TRAFFIC YOU GET 404 OR 450 AND WHATEVER.
>> WELL, IT SLOWS DOWN YOUR TRAFFIC, BUT THEN YOU END UP HAVING TO PUT LIGHTS IN.
THAT'S WHAT HAPPENS ONCE YOU START GETTING A BUNCH OF ACCESS POINTS.
ACCESS ALL AVENUES TO ACCESS STATE HIGHWAY FIRST.
>> DO YOU HAVE ANYTHING ELSE ON THE MINERAL RESOURCE?
>> I DON'T HAVE ANYTHING ELSE.
>> WELL, IN YOUR DRAFT, WHERE THE RED STUFF IS, IS THERE ANYTHING IN THERE THAT GOT CHANGED THAT WE REALLY NEED TO LOOK AT?
>> WELL, YOU WOULD BE TELLING ME BECAUSE YOU READ THROUGH IT ALL.
>> JUST TO SUMMARIZE, WE'RE GOING TO RECOMMEND ADDING INFORMATION ABOUT WHAT PERMITS ARE BEING SOUGHT FOR THE OPERATION TO THE REQUIRED INFO AT THE APPLICATION STAGE.
WE'RE GOING TO ADD A RECOMMENDATION TO ASSURE THAT ALL WHERE APPLICABLE ON PROPERTIES THAT ARE ALIGNED WITH STATE ROADS.
ALL NECESSARY MEASURES ARE TAKEN TO LIMIT THE ACCESS TO AND FROM STATE ROADS ONLY NOT COUNTY ROADS.
ALTHOUGH IT WILL BE BETTER WRITTEN.
THE SAME LANGUAGE, ASSURE ALL AVAILABLE MEASURES ARE TAKEN TO PROTECT THE COUNTY TRANSPORTATION INFRASTRUCTURE FROM INCREASED STRESS THAT'S A RESULT OF THE ADDITIONAL VEHICULAR TRAFFIC FROM MINING OPERATIONS.
>> WE'RE GOING TO ADD A BULLET ONCE WE CONTACT MDE AND FIND OUT WHAT DID THEY NOTIFY THE COUNTY OF AS FAR AS NON COMPLIANCE? WHAT DO THEY LOOK FOR AT INSPECTIONS?
>> ANY [OVERLAPPING] REQUIRED STATUS OF ALL PERMITTED MINING OPERATIONS IN THE COUNTY.
BASICALLY, A COMPLIANCE STATUS REPORT.
>> WHAT OTHER PERMITS ARE OBTAINED WITH MDE MINING PERMITS? DOES THAT SOUND LIKE WE CAPTURED IT ALL? THEN HOPEFULLY, WE SHOULD BE ABLE TO COME BACK WITH THE ANSWER TO
[00:55:02]
THOSE QUESTIONS AND A REVISED BULLET IN JUNE.>> IS IT A CRAZY IDEA TO CHARGE AN APPLICATION FEE TO COVER THE COST OF OCCASIONAL INSPECTION FOR COMPLIANCE OF SURFACE MINES IN THE COUNTY, SINCE WE HAVE ONE CODE ENFORCEMENT OFFICER, AND TO MAKE IT EXPRESSLY UNDERSTOOD THAT FAILURE TO COMPLY WITH THE TERMS OF YOUR PERMIT WILL RESULT IN SUSPENSION? THE STATE DOES IT.
>> HOW OFTEN DO THEY GET A PERMIT? HOW OFTEN HAVE THEY RENEW THEIR PERMIT?
>> IT SAYS YEARLY IN HERE FOR MDE.
THEY HAVE TO PROVIDE THIS WITH THE CURRENT.
>> DO WE INDICATE HOW MANY TIMES WE CAN INSPECT THEM?
>> 1-2. WE COULD SAY AT LEAST ONE.
>> THEY HAVE TO AGREE IN THE APPLICATION PROCESS TO ALLOW THAT ACCESS FOR INSPECTION PURPOSES.
>> CHARGE IN ADVANCE AS PART OF THE APPLICATION FEE.
>> HONESTLY, WE SHOULD DO THAT FOR A COUPLE OF OTHER THINGS, TOO.
>> FOR THE LANDSCAPING, YOU REMEMBER THE LANDSCAPE ARCHITECT, WE JUST STUCK THAT IN A COUPLE OF YEARS AGO.
>> STEWART, NOT TO PUT YOU ON THE SPOT, BUT I BELIEVE IF WE CHANGE THE APPLICATIONS TO HAVE A BLUR WHERE THEY HAVE TO SIGN THAT SAYS THE COUNTY HAS THE RIGHT TO ENTER THIS PROPERTY AT ANY TIME DURING THE REVIEW OR AFTER THE APPROVAL WHILE ANY PERMITS ARE VALID, SOMETHING ALONG THOSE LINES.
>> YOU CAN STEAL THE LANGUAGE FROM THE DAF ORDINANCE, WHICH REQUIRE THE APPLICATION FOR A STORAGE PERMIT TO BE SIGNED NOT JUST BY THE OPERATOR, BUT BY THE LANDOWNER.
THERE'S A SEPARATE SHEET THAT KRYSTAL AND I CAME UP WITH TO BE SIGNED BY THE LANDOWNER WHO MAY NOT BE THE OPERATOR.
THERE'S PRECEDENT FOR US DOING THIS.
>> THAT'S WHY I WANTED. MY QUESTION WAS, HOW ARE WE GOING TO POLICE THIS? I SAID THAT EARLIER TO YOU, BUT I DIDN'T SAY THE REST BECAUSE I THOUGHT THAT THAT PROCESS HAS TO HAVE SOMETHING IN IT TO BE ABLE TO MAKE THEM BE COMPLIANT.
YOU CAN'T JUST PUT ALL THIS OUT.
>> I WILL SAY THAT MDE DOES A LOT OF THAT.
THEY DO RANDOM INSPECTIONS PLUS YEARLY INSPECTIONS, AND THEY CAN ENTER AT ANY TIME.
THEY'RE REALLY THE SUBJECT MATTER EXPERTS ON THE DISCHARGES AND ALL OF THOSE THINGS, I THINK BEFORE WE HAVE TO SET UP A WHOLE ANOTHER ENTITY AND WORRY ABOUT IT, I THINK WE NEED TO GET THE DATA ON WHAT MDE ACTUALLY DOES, MAYBE GET OUR HANDS ON THEIR CHECKLIST AND ASK MOLLY AT MDE.
>> YOU BELIEVE EVERY FIVE YEARS, EVERY ONE YEAR?
THEY DO AT LEAST ANNUAL INSPECTIONS.
>> WELL, I DON'T KNOW THE ANSWER AS I SIT HERE, BUT IT MIGHT BE THERE ONLY INSPECTING FOR PURPOSES OF THE STATE REQUIREMENTS FOR THE STATE PERMITS, BUT NOT LOCAL PERMISSION OR RESTRICTIONS THAT THIS BODY MIGHT PUT ON PZA.
>> WELL, TYPICALLY WHAT THIS BODY PUTS ON RESTRICTION WISE WOULD TRANSFER TO THE MDE PERMIT.
INSIDE OF THE PERMIT THAT THEY ISSUE, THEY BASICALLY COPY OUR SETBACK AND MINING LIMITS BECAUSE ESSENTIALLY.
WE ESTABLISHED THE MINING LIMITS, I GUESS MATT PROBABLY DOES THAT THROUGH THE WETLAND REVIEW AS WELL.
MAYBE WE INTERNALLY ACTUALLY DETERMINE ALL THE MINING LIMITS.
MAYBE MDE SAYS, THIS IS WHERE THE WETLANDS ARE, AND THEN IT'S OUR RESPONSIBILITY TO MAKE SURE THAT THE MINING LIMITS ARE OUTSIDE OF THOSE AREAS.
I THINK WHAT WE DO FROM THAT STANDPOINT, MDE DOES END UP ENFORCING FOR US.
WHAT THEY WOULDN'T ENFORCE WOULD BE THE SCREENING REQUIREMENTS, WHICH I BELIEVE WE REQUIRE A LANDSCAPE BOND TO BE POSTED, SO WE COULD CALL ON THAT.
>> WHAT ABOUT TRAFFIC? THAT'S WHERE WE'RE MAINLY GOING TO GET HURT IN THIS COUNTY BECAUSE ROADS BEING TORN UP.
[01:00:03]
AND THEY DOUBLE IT, TRIPLE IT.>> BRINGING HEAVY LOADS OF STUFF.
[OVERLAPPING] OF COURSE, I'M A PERSON WHO LIVES OUT THERE IN BRIDGETOWN.
THEN NEXT YEAR, IT LOOKS LIKE IT NEEDS IT AGAIN.
CRACKED ALL UP. THEY COME THROUGH AND PUT THE LITTLE TAR STRIPS OR WHATEVER THE HIGHWOOD COUNTY DOES.
THOSE RESURFACING ONLY LAST ABOUT A YEAR, THAT'S WHERE I'M AT BECAUSE OF THE TRUCKS.
I DIDN'T KNOW, I'M LEARNING A LOT, TOO, ABOUT THAT BACK LOAD BECAUSE THAT BRINGING BACK STONE IS HEAVIER THAN THE SAND THAT WENT OUT.
>> WELL, THEY'RE LOADING THEM TRUCK, THEY'RE 70,000.
WHEN THEY'RE GOING OUT THEY'RE MOVING THEIR OPERATORS, THEY'RE GOING OUT AT 70, AND THEY'RE COMING BACK IN AT 70.
>> THEY MAXIMIZE WHAT THEY CAN HOLD.
>> [OVERLAPPING] OUT THE GATE.
>> THEY WAKE ME RIGHT UP. I HEAR THEM AT 4:30. THEY START ROLLING.
>> I DO KNOW THAT WHEN MATT AND I WERE GOING OVER THIS, AND HE WAS TALKING ABOUT A RECENT PROJECT WHERE BETWEEN STATE HIGHWAY AND THE COUNTY, THEY HAD TO DO MASTER ROAD IMPROVEMENTS.
THEY HAD TO BOND IT. WE DO HAVE THAT IN PLACE MORE NOW THAN I FEEL LIKE YOU DID BEFORE.
>> BUT THAT'S WHY I LIKE WHAT TRAVIS SAID, IF THEY HAVE ACCESS TO A STATE ROAD, THEY NEED TO GO OUT THAT WAY BECAUSE THE STATE IS GOING TO MAKE THEM PUT IN BREAKDOWN LANES.
THEY'RE GOING TO MAKE THEM BUILD IT TO A CERTAIN STANDARD.
>> WHERE I'M GETTING AT IS, IF THE STATE, WE'RE GOING TO MAKE THEM DO THAT WITH DIRECT ACCESS, BUT IF THEY COME OUT ON OUR ROAD AND CIRCUMVENT HAVING TO DO THAT, THEY STILL GOT TO GET ON AND OFF THE STATE HIGHWAY.
IN MANY CASES, THEY'D BE DOING IT WITHOUT ALL THE STUFF THAT THE STATES GOING TO MAKE THEM DO.
>> THAT WAS SCHUSTER. LET ME PUT MY ENTRANCE DOWN HERE, THEN I DON'T HAVE [OVERLAPPING]
>> THEN I DON'T HAVE TO DO X-CELL, D-CELL LANES ON 404 AND ALL OF THAT.
THE OTHER THING TO CONSIDER IS CAN WE LIMIT THE AMOUNT OF PERMITS THAT ARE ISSUED EVERY YEAR, TOO? LIKE THE SOLAR, WHEN WE WERE PUSHING FORWARD SOLAR BECAUSE THE NORTH END OF THE COUNTY IS GETTING DUG UP.
>> THAT'S WHAT I WAS GETTING AT. CAN WE SAY NO? WE'RE MINING 1,600 ACRES RIGHT NOW WHERE THIS PAPER SAYS 21 SITES.
HAVE WE DONE OUR PART? MY GREAT GRAND KIDS ARE GOING TO HAVE A GOOD TIME SWIMMING IN THE SWIMMING HOLES.
>> THE QUESTION WOULD BE, WHAT WOULD BE THE PERIMETERS OF HOW YOU COULD LIMIT THEM AND THAT COULD BE DEFENDED IN COURT?
I HATE TO SAY IT. IT'S LIKE THEY DID WITH SOLAR.
SEVEN YEARS AGO, EIGHT YEARS AGO, THEY HELD PUBLIC HEARINGS, AND THEY BROUGHT IN THE PLAYERS AND HEARD FROM ALL DIFFERENT CORNERS OF THE ISSUE AND THEN CAME UP WITH A 2,000 ACRE CAP.
WE HAVE TO DO SOME OFFICIAL INQUIRY.
THAT'S HOW YOU DEFEND AN ORDINANCE IN COURT BECAUSE YOU HAVE A COMMISSIONED STUDY THAT ACTUALLY GAVE YOU HARD DATA FROM WHICH THIS BODY WOULD RECOMMEND AND THE COMMISSIONERS WOULD ENACT, PERHAPS SOME LIMITATION.
MAYBE IT'S BY DISTRICT, MAYBE IT'S BY PORTION OF THE COUNTY SO THAT IT'S NOT ALL CONCENTRATED UP NORTH AND AND BASICALLY TURNS THAT PLACE INTO A DESERT.
>> WELL, A LOT OF IT DEPENDS ON THE NATURAL DEPOSITS, TOO.
WHY EVERYBODY GOES NORTH IS BECAUSE OF THEIR NATURAL SAND DEPOSIT THERE.
WHAT I'M TOLD, I DON'T KNOW REALLY THAT MUCH ABOUT THE DETAILS OF SAND WASHING OPERATIONS, BUT THEY'RE IN SEARCH FOR JUST THE RIGHT TYPE OF SAND TO MEET THE RIGHT SAND.
A LOT OF PEOPLE THINK SAND IS SAND, BUT THERE'S VERY FINE SAND, LIKE A BEACH SAND, ALMOST, WHICH IS ONLY GOOD FOR MASONRY, FOR MIXING INTO MORTAR AND USED FOR MORTAR BETWEEN BRICKS.
THEN CONCRETE SAND OR SEPTIC SAND IS MUCH MORE COARSE, LARGER SAND, WITH FINER GRAVEL PIECES IN IT.
THAT'S REALLY WHAT THEY'RE SEARCHING FOR.
IN SOME CASES, WHAT HAPPENS IS, THEY WILL OPEN A SURFACE MINING OPERATION AND START TO DIG AND START TO MINE AND FIND THAT THE CONCRETE SAND, WHICH EVERYONE IS IN SEARCH OF MAY NOT BE THERE IN THE QUANTITY THAT THEY WOULD LIKE,
[01:05:02]
AND THEY END UP GENERATING A TON OF MASONRY SAND.WHAT ENDS UP HAPPENING IS, THEY HAVE MOUNTAINS AND MOUNTAINS OF MASONRY SAND THAT THEY CAN'T MOVE AND TO PRODUCE A LITTLE BIT OF GRAVEL OR A LITTLE BIT OF CONCRETE SAND.
I'M SURE THEY DO THEIR DUE DILIGENCE AND DO GEOTECHNICAL TESTING, GEOLOGICAL STUDIES, BUT THERE'S NO WAY TO KNOW PRECISELY WHAT YOU'RE ACTUALLY GETTING INTO.
IT'S A GAMBLE. THESE THINGS COULD DRAG ON, I'VE ACTUALLY BEEN IN SOME OF THEM AND HAULED OUT OF SOME OF THEM WHERE IT LOOKS LIKE BOMBS WENT OFF BECAUSE THEY FIND DEPOSITS HERE AND THERE OF THE CONCRETE SAND THAT THEY WANT AND DIG THERE AND LEAVE OUT THE AREAS WHERE IT'S THE FINER MASONRY SAND.
>> I'VE SEEN SOME WHERE THEY DUG GOT INTO THE MASONRY SAND, BUT THEY WANT THE CONCRETE SAND, WHICH IS UNDERNEATH OF IT.
THEY'LL JUST PUT A PILE TO GET TO WHAT THEY WANT.
>> BUT IT'S NECESSARY. WE'RE THE CLOSEST PROBABLY SAND DEPOSIT TO THE BALTIMORE, DC, PHILADELPHIA METRO AREAS.
>> I DON'T KNOW IF THAT, WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT NOW, IS PART OF THIS.
IT MAY BE PART OF REQUIREMENTS DOWN THE ROAD WHERE WE HAVE TO DO A STUDY BECAUSE LOOK AT THE ONE THAT WE GOT? HE SAYS IT, I'M GOING TO DIG UP THIS 200 ACRE FARM.
AGAIN, IT'S NOT JUST NOW WE'RE LOSING A 200 ACRE FARM. WHERE'S THE BALANCE?
>> WELL, I THINK NOW IS WHERE YOU WOULD WANT TO HAVE SOMETHING IN YOUR COMP PLAN TO THEN GENERATE SPECIFICALLY WHEN YOU GET TO THE THE ZONING CODE UPDATE OF HERE'S HOW WE WANT TO, SO IT COULD BE A GOAL.
WHAT IS YOUR GOAL? YOUR GOAL IS TO LIMIT THE NUMBER OF PERMITS.
THEN YOUR STRATEGY IS TO THEN DO THE STUDY?
>> MAYBE WE WOULD EXPAND ON NUMBER 1 WHERE IT SAYS, PRESERVE THE AGRICULTURAL AND SCENIC CHARACTER OF CAROLINE COUNTY.
I DON'T KNOW HOW YOU ADD TO THAT IN THERE.
>> WELL, AND ALSO THE ONE BELOW IT, PRESERVE PRODUCTIVE ARG LAND AS A RENEWABLE RESOURCE BECAUSE MINERAL RESOURCES ARE NON-RENEWABLE.
I DON'T KNOW IF WE BEEF THE LANGUAGE UP IN THAT TO MAKE IT CLEAR THAT WE DON'T ALLOW THE NON-RENEWABLE RESOURCE TO THREATEN OR ENDANGER THE ARG LAND OR SOMETHING ALONG THOSE LINES.
IN THE END, IS IT LIKE SOLAR? WE CAN'T DENY IT.
>> WE'LL SEE, AND THAT WAS JEFF'S QUESTION WAS, CAN WE SAY NO? CAN WE LIMIT THE NUMBER OF PERMITS? IS THAT YOUR GOAL?
>> DO WE HAVE A PERCENTAGE OF LAND USE? WE DON'T WANT TO GO A PERCENTAGE OF THE COUNTY.
WE DON'T WANT TO BE GREATER THAN 30%, 5%?
>> HOLD ON. HE'S GOT SOMETHING HE WANTS TO SAY. GO AHEAD.
>> I HAVE A QUESTION. LET'S SAY YOU TAKE R1 FOR 200 ACRE FARM THAT YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT.
THAT'S GENERATING A LOT, OF COURSE PRODUCING GRAIN, BUT IT TAKES FERTILIZER LINE AND ARG APPLICATIONS AND ALL THAT.
IT'S A RESOURCE. BEEN HERE BEFORE WHITE MAN CAME HERE.
IF WE TAKE CARE OF IT WILL LAST FOREVER.
I KNOW WE NEED SANDY GRAVEL OR PEOPLE NEED SANDY GRAVEL, BUT WHAT YOU'RE LEFT WITH IS A PIT.
NOW, I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY FISHING HOLES WE NEED IN THE COUNTY, EVEN IF IT WAS FOR FISHING, BUT THAT'S NOT GOING TO PRODUCE A WHOLE LOT OF MONEY IN THE FUTURE.
I QUESTION WHAT ALL THESE HOLES MIGHT DO TO OUR GROUNDWATER.
YOU GO UP TO BRIDGETOWN, YOU LOOK DOWN IN THERE 2050, YOU SEE THERE IS WATER.
BEFORE THAT, WATER LEVEL WAS MUCH HIGHER FOR BETTER OR WORSE, BUT I THINK IT COULD AFFECT THE AQUIFERS IN THE AREA.
>> WELL, WHEN THEY DO A GROUNDWATER APPROPRIATION PERMIT, THEY DO LOOK AT AND EVEN IF IT'S THE SURFICIAL AQUIFER OR I GUESS THE NEXT ONE DOWN IS THE COLUMBIA, THEY LOOK AT WHAT USES ARE ALREADY DRAWING FROM THAT WATER; FROM EITHER THE SURFICIAL AQUIFER OR WHATEVER THE AQUIFERS THEY'RE USING.
THE STATE DETERMINES WHAT THE LIMIT OF WITHDRAWALS IS FOR THAT AREA.
>> I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT TAKING WATER OUT OF THE PIT.
[01:10:03]
I'M TALKING ABOUT, ESPECIALLY HERE AT BRIDGETOWN, THAT'S GOT A HIGH WATER TANK WALL.THERE'S A BIG TANK STITCH NEXT TO THAT PIT, IF YOU'VE REMOVED ALL YOUR SOIL RAVEL DOWN 20 FEET, OBVIOUSLY, YOU'VE LOWERED THE [OVERLAPPING]
>> NOW, ANOTHER QUESTION I HAVE AS A PDA MANAGER.
>> IT MAY BE IN YOUR STUFF, I DON'T KNOW, BUT IF IT'S NOT, I WOULD REQUEST THAT YOU PUT IN THERE THAT AT THE BEGINNING OF PERMIT APPLICATION FOR A NEW PID, IF THERE ARE ANY PDAS THAT ARE CONTINUOUS WITH IT IN ANY WAY THAT ARE ACTIVE, THAT THEY BE NOTIFIED THROUGH SOLE CONSERVATION.
>> I BELIEVE THEY ARE, BUT WE CAN CHECK WITH MATT.
THE PDA DISCUSSION IS THE SECOND GOAL, AND THOSE NEED TO BE PROTECTED AND PAID ATTENTION TO, BUT WE'LL DOUBLE-CHECK WITH MATT ON THAT TOO.
>> ANOTHER QUESTION I HAVE IS, WE TALK ABOUT THE TRUCKS, AND THERE SEEMS TO BE SOME GUIDELINES OR REGULATIONS ON WHEN THEY START AND HOW MANY TRUCKS THERE ARE, ETC, AND WHAT ROADS THEY USE, BUT FRANKLY, WHO THE HELL ENFORCES IT THEN?
>> SEE, AND THAT'S THE OTHER STEP.
SOME OF THE STUFF THAT WE BROUGHT UP, I'M GLAD THAT THE COUNTY COMMISSIONER IS SITTING HERE ON THIS BOARD.
>> I KNOW YOU DON'T WANT TO HEAR THIS. AT SOME POINT, MAYBE PLANTED IN CODE MAY HAVE TO REQUEST A CODE ENFORCEMENT OFFICER OR TWO.
IT'S NICE THAT WE MAKE THESE RULES UP, BUT WE HAVE NOBODY TO ENFORCE THEM.
>> NOW, WHEN IT FIRST TALKED ABOUT THE REASON LANDFILL MANY YEARS AGO WHEN WE HAD THE HEARINGS UP AT THE COURTHOUSE, MDE SAID, WE CAN OVERSEE WHERE THE TRUCKS GO, WE CAN TRACK THEM THROUGH SATELLITES.
IF THEY DON'T DO RIGHT WE'LL PULL [INAUDIBLE] THEY CAN'T HAUL THROUGH THE LANDFILL ANYMORE.
I'VE BEEN TO LANDFILL TWO OR THREE TIMES AND THE MANAGER THERE SAID, I DON'T HAVE ANY CONTROL THAT.
I SAID, NO, YOU DO. YOU CAN BLOCK THEM FROM ACCESSING [INAUDIBLE], BUT IT NEVER HAPPENED.
I KNOW THEY DO BECAUSE I HAD A DRIVER THAT REFUSED TO TURN LEFT WHEN HE CAME OUT OF LANDFILL, AND THEY WORRIED US TO DEATH.
I PERSONALLY CAN TESTIFY THAT MDE DOES.
I DID EVERYTHING I COULD TO CORRECT THE DRIVER TOO, AND HE DOESN'T WORK FOR US ANYMORE.
>> I DON'T KNOW ABOUT MDE, BUT I KNOW [INAUDIBLE], IF YOU DO SOMETHING, THEY'LL BORROW A OWNER OPERATOR IN A MINUTE.
THEY'LL JUST BORROW FROM [INAUDIBLE]
>> YOU MIGHT HAVE BEEN THE ONE CALLING THEM IN.
>> BUT THEY ARE ALLOWED TO USE CENTRAL AVENUE.
THE ONLY RESTRICTION OUT OF LANDFILL IS THEY CAN'T TURN RIGHT ONTO HOLLY ROAD.
THEY CAN TURN LEFT, AND ONCE THEY TURN LEFT, THEY CAN GO ANYWHERE THEY WANT.
>> THAT'S NOT WHAT THE ORIGINAL FRAME WAS.
THE ORIGINAL FRAME WAS THEY DID NOT TRAVEL ON ANY COUNTY ROADS EXCEPT FROM 480 TO THE LANDFILL, AND THAT WAS THE ONLY EGRESS EXIT FROM THE LANDFILL.
>> NO, THEY'RE NOT. I DON'T THINK IT MADE IT INTO THE FINAL AGREEMENT.
>> BECAUSE IT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE AGREED TO THAT THE TRUCKS COMING OUT OF THE LANDFILL WEREN'T ALLOWED TO GO THROUGH GREENSBORO.
THEY HAD TO COME ALL THE WAY AROUND AND GO DOWN 404 AND COME IN THROUGH RIDGELY, AND THEY'RE NOT DOING THAT.
>> WAS THAT IN THE AGREEMENT TOO?
>> THAT WAS PART OF THE DISCUSSION. I DON'T KNOW.
>> IT MADE IT IN THE AGREEMENT.
>> THEY WERE SUPPOSED TO BUY THAT HOUSE AND PUT A DECEL LANE IN TO MAKE THE TURN OFF 480.
>> ONLY IF YOU HAVE [INAUDIBLE]
>> THE PERMITS THAT WE'VE GIVEN, I KNOW THAT THE BZA HAS DONE IT WITH US THAT WE REQUIRED.
THERE IS MINING OPERATION HOURS.
THERE'S TRUCK LIMITS, BUT LIKE YOU SAID, WHO'S SITTING OUT THERE WATCHING THEM COME OUT? WHO'S COUNTING TRUCKS?
>> CERTAINLY, I'M NOT EXPECTING SOMEBODY TO BE THERE 24/7, BUT I THINK A LITTLE BIT ENFORCEMENT MIGHT GO A LONG WAY.
>> PUT ONE OF THOSE BOX COUNTING.
[01:15:02]
>> YOU PUT A THING ACROSS THE ROAD AND THEY COUNT.
>> SOME OF YOUR BIG OPERATIONS, THEY KNOW.
>> THEY DON'T WANT YOU GETTING INTO THEIR POCKETS, BUT IT'S THESE LITTLE OPERATIONS YOU HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT.
THE BIG ONES ARE LOOKING AFTER THEMSELVES TO A POINT.
THEY'RE NOT OPENING THEM GATES BEFORE CERTAIN HOURS, AND AS AN OWNER OPERATOR, YOU'RE NOT GOING TO COME OUT AND PARK THERE IN FRONT THEIR GATES AND LET YOUR TRUCK RUN AT FOUR O'CLOCK IN THE MORNING.
>> THE OTHER THING, I THINK YOU-ALL MENTIONED THAT MAYBE [INAUDIBLE], QUOTE-UNQUOTE, OR SOMETHING FOR 100 TRUCKS.
>> BUT YOU KNOW IF THEY'RE MAKING MULTIPLE TRIPS, THAT'S NO LONGER 100 TRUCKS, THAT'S SOMETHING LIKE 400.
>> I ASKED THIS TOO WHEN WE WERE TALKING ABOUT IT, IS IT 100 TRUCKS A DAY? IS THAT YOUR TWO ROUNDS, ARE YOU FACTORING IN YOUR TWO ROUNDS? BECAUSE THAT'S 200 TRUCKS.
OR IS IT 100 ROUND? THAT'S 50 TRUCKS THAT'S MAKING THEIR TWO ROUNDS.
I DON'T KNOW HOW YOU ARTICULATE.
YOU JUST PUT IN 100 TRUCKS A DAY.
>> BUT IT COULD BE A LOT FOR ROAD USERS.
>> MY PROPERTY, WHICH I HAVE, I GOT 19 ACRES OUT THERE IN BRIDGETOWN.
>> I HAVE A NATURAL POND ON THAT PROPERTY.
ALSO, MY LOW WATER LEVELS HAVE GONE DOWN.
THAT POND USED TO BE UP ALMOST SIX FOOT, AND I'M DOWN ABOUT THREE, THREE-AND-A-HALF, AND I KNOW THAT THE WATER LEVELS ARE BEING AFFECTED IN THAT AREA.
WHATEVER THEY'RE DOING OVER THERE, IT SEEMS LIKE, TO ME, THEY'RE JUST CONSTANTLY DIGGING.
>> ON TAXATION, I REALIZE IT'S NOT YOUR FORTE, BUT IF OUT START OUT WITH 200-ACRE FARM, YOU GET TAXED AT [INAUDIBLE] AND OPERATIONS, YOU'RE TAXED AT AN INDUSTRIAL RATE OF SOME SORT.
>> I WOULD PRESUME COMMERCIAL OR INDUSTRIAL, BUT YOU'RE RIGHT, THAT'S NOT MY FORTE.
IT GOES UP TO ABOUT 10,000 AN ACRE.
>> BUT IT'S ONLY ON THE ACREAGE YOU'RE USING.
>> IT MUST BE, I WOULD THINK, A VERY LOW RATE OF TAXATION.
>> I DON'T KNOW IF IT DROPS BACK AT THE END OR NOT.
I DO NOT KNOW HOW THAT GETS ASSESSED, BUT I WOULD ASSUME YOU'RE PROBABLY RIGHT.
ONCE IT DROPS BACK, IT PROBABLY GOES BACK TO A PREFERRED ASSESSMENT.
>> IT'S NOT REALLY, I GUESS, EXACTLY YOUR PURVIEW OF YOU-ALL, BUT SOMEBODY MENTIONED IT EARLIER, WE'RE LOSING ACREAGE TO THE [INAUDIBLE] SOLAR FARMS, WE'RE LOSING ACREAGE TO PITS, WE'RE LOSING ACREAGE TO HOUSES [INAUDIBLE] GREEN GARDEN COUNTY.
I DON'T WANT TO END UP LIKE TALBOT COUNTY [INAUDIBLE], GOSH, BUT THEY'RE COMPETING INTEREST ON IT. SORRY.
>> THAT IS THE CHALLENGE IS AG, SOLAR, AND MINING ALL WANT THE SAME SPACE.
THE ONLY ONE THAT IS ACTUALLY THE LAND IS VALUABLE TO LITERALLY ITS EXISTENCE AND ITS SUCCESS IS AG REALLY.
MINING WHERE THE DEPOSITS ARE IS VALUABLE, BUT THEY'RE NOT ONLY GOING THERE IN PRECISION MINING.
THEY'RE TAKING LARGE CHUNKS, AND LIKE TRAVIS SAID, RANDOMLY HOPING FOR THE BEST.
YOU COULD PUT SOLAR ON A ROCK AND IT'D BE JUST FINE.
I THINK THAT THE POINT IS MADE IN THE GOALS AND THE STRATEGIES IN THIS CHAPTER THAT AG PRESERVATION OF THAT VALUABLE RENEWABLE RESOURCE IS THE PRIORITY, BUT ANYWHERE WE CAN BEEF IT UP, AND IF ADDING SOME LANGUAGE ABOUT PAYING ATTENTION TO HOW MUCH ACREAGE IS GOING TO MINING AND IS THAT OUT OF BALANCE EACH YEAR, IS SOMETHING WE COULD ADD, EVEN IN GENERAL LANGUAGE, TO SAY THAT WE'RE PAYING ATTENTION TO THIS BECAUSE WE DON'T WANT AN IMBALANCE.
AN IMBALANCE, WE'RE NOT TALKING 50/50.
WE'RE TALKING THE MAJORITY OF OUR LAND USE WE WANT TO KEEP IN AG, AND WE SAY IT, IT'S THE BACKBONE OF OUR ECONOMY.
>> I'M SORRY TO INTERRUPT YOU, LESLIE.
>> I'M JUST GOING TO BACK PEDAL A LITTLE BIT.
DO YOU WANT TO ADD A GOAL AS LIMIT THE NUMBER OF PERMITS, AND THEN UNDER STRATEGIES PUT DO A STUDY AND EVERYTHING
[01:20:04]
THAT STEWART WAS SAYING YOU WOULD HAVE TO DO IN ORDER TO DO THAT?>> I DON'T THINK YOU LIMIT THE PERMITS? YOU LIMIT THE ACREAGE.
YOU'VE GOT TO DO SOMETHING BECAUSE YOU COULD HAVE ONE PERMIT THAT COMES IN FOR 5,000 ACRES.
>> LIMIT THE ACREAGE FOR MINING.
>> BRING IN THE FEDERAL DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE, WHO HAS CLASSIFIED MOST OF OUR FARM LAND AS THE HIGHEST QUALITY AND OF NATIONAL SECURITY PURPOSES FOR FOOD PRODUCTION.
THAT'S HOW YOU BACK IT UP FOR A COURT CASE.
>> THERE'S A BALANCE. LIKE WE SAID, IT'S A FINITE RESOURCE, AND YOU GOT TO GO WHERE IT'S AT IF IT'S NEEDED, BUT YOU'VE GOT A BALANCE ALL THE OTHER PRESSURES ON AGRICULTURE AND ON THE COUNTY.
I THINK THE CORRECT WAY TO DO IT IS SOME TYPE OF THROTTLING MECHANISM, LIKE, WE'RE ONLY GOING TO ISSUE PERMITS FOR SO MANY ACRES.
YOU GOT TO FINISH UP YOUR MINE SOMEWHERE ELSE BEFORE YOU START ANOTHER ONE.
>> THAT WAS WHAT WAS SAID IN YOUR MEETING.
HE'S GOT ENOUGH FOR 80 MORE YEARS.
WHY IS HE COMING HERE DIGGING US UP? YOU'VE GOT 80 YEARS WORTH OF DIGGING.
YOU'RE GOING TO OUT LIVE THE CURRENT PIT.
>> MAYBE ANOTHER THING THE STUDY COULD UNDERTAKE IS TO LOOK AT THE POINT ABOUT MASONRY SAND, AND IT'S ALMOST JUNK BECAUSE SO MANY PEOPLE HAVE IT.
LOOK AT, HOW RARE IS THE RESOURCE WE HAVE HERE, OR IS IT LITERALLY FOUND EVERYWHERE ELSE? THEN YOU LOOK AT THE COMPARISON OF HOW MUCH PRIME FARMLAND IS THERE IN THIS REGION BECAUSE IT AIN'T EVERYWHERE ELSE, BUT IT IS HERE.
IF THERE'S AN ALTERNATIVE SOURCE FOR THE SAND AND GRAVEL RESOURCE NEARBY OR EVEN IN THE DELMARVA BUT NOT IN PRIME FARMLAND, THERE'S AN ARGUMENT TO BE MADE TO PRESERVE THE RESOURCE THAT'S VALUABLE FOR WHAT IT PRODUCES AND THE SAND AND GRAVEL RESOURCE IS SECOND TO THAT IN TERMS OF PROTECTING ACREAGE.
THEN YOU BEGIN TO BUILD AN ARGUMENT FOR WHAT DO WE CONSIDER TO BE A LIMIT AND HOW MANY ACRES OF EACH DO WE HAVE?
>> THAT'S YOUR STRATEGY TO OFFSET THAT GOAL IS TO DO THE STUDY.
>> THE STUDY COULD INCLUDE LOOKING AT THE ECONOMIC FACTOR OF ONCE, LIKE THIS GENTLEMAN WAS SAYING, YOU START GRABBING 2,000 ACRES OF FARMLAND OUT OF PRODUCTION, IT'S NOT JUST AFFECTING LITERALLY THE CROPS THAT COME AT THE END OF OF THE GROWING CYCLE, IT'S AFFECTING THE SUPPORT FOLKS THAT DO THE FERTILIZER, REPAIR THE FARM EQUIPMENT, SELL THE FARM EQUIPMENT, LEASE IT, WHATEVER, IT SHRINKS THAT.
IT HURTS IT. SOMEBODY MUCH SMARTER THAN ME COULD FIGURE OUT WHAT GENERALLY THE ECONOMIC EFFECTS ARE FOR EVERY 500 ACRES OF PRIME FARMLAND.
>> THERE'S AN ECONOMIC BOOM WHILE THE MINING IS TAKING PLACE BECAUSE IT CREATES A LOT OF JOBS WHILE IT'S ACTIVE, BUT TO CHIP'S POINT, ONCE YOU RECLAIM IT, AND IT GOES BACK OR IT GOES TO JUST A VACANT WATERHOLE, THEN WHAT DOES IT BECOME?
>> HOW MUCH DOES IT BENEFIT OUR COUNTY.
>> IN THE OUT YEARS, IT DOESN'T DO ANYTHING.
IN THE IN-TERM IN LET'S SAY 30-40 YEARS WHERE IT'S ACTIVELY BEING MINED, IT'S AN ECONOMIC ENGINE, I WOULD ARGUE, PROBABLY MORE THAN AGRICULTURE BECAUSE IF THERE'S 100 TRUCK LOADS A DAY GOING OUT THERE, YOU'VE PROBABLY GOT 50 TRUCK DRIVING JOBS.
YOU'VE GOT A SCALE HOUSE OPERATOR, YOU'VE PROBABLY GOT A MECHANIC, AND YOU'VE PROBABLY GOT A LOADER.
WHERE IF IT'S A 200-ACRE FARM, YOU REALLY DON'T HAVE THAT MUCH ECONOMIC IMPACT, BUT ONCE THE MINE IS DONE, IT'S NOTHING.
>> THEN WHAT IS IT, WATERFRONT HOMES?
>> NOT ONLY THAT, BUT NOW I'M WORRIED ABOUT THE GROUNDWATER.
>> MDE WOULDN'T LET IT HAPPEN.
I DON'T THINK THERE'S THAT MUCH OF AN EFFECT ON THE GROUNDWATER.
I KNOW, BUT I THINK SOME OF THAT'S NATURAL RAIN, LESS RAIN, MORE RAIN, DROUGHT.
A GOOD ONE TO ASK WOULD BE ROBIN.
SHE TESTIFIED IN OUR COMMISSIONER MEETING TUESDAY THAT THEY HAVE 30 YEARS OF GROUNDWATER TABLE DATA.
[01:25:01]
THEY'VE GOT THE DATA.>> IT'D BE GOOD TO KNOW BECAUSE GROUNDWATER FEEDS STREAMS, AG RELIES ON GROUNDWATER.
THERE'S A LOT THAT RELIES ON GROUNDWATER AND THAT'S ANOTHER COST.
YOU HAVE TO LOOK AT THE COST EFFECTIVENESS OF WHAT IT IS YOU'RE GETTING OUT OF THE GROUND AND WHAT'S IT REALLY COSTING?
>> I'M CERTAINLY NO EXPERT, BUT I'M A LITTLE SKEPTICAL ON THE EFFECTS TO THE GROUNDWATER, BUT I WOULD SAY ROBIN AND JOSH WOULD KNOW BECAUSE THEY HAVE 30 YEARS OF MONITORING.
>> ADMITTEDLY, IT'S GENERATED A LOT OF ECONOMIC ACTIVITY FOR A WHILE, BUT WHEN THEY'RE DONE, THAT LAND IS DONE.
>> UNLESS WE CAN FIND SOME OTHER WAY TO UTILIZE IT.
>> YOU MIGHT HAVE A NICE FISHING FARM.
>> OR COVER THEM WITH FLOATING SOLAR PANELS.
>> SOME SOLAR PANELS WOULD PROBABLY TAKE UP THAT AREA.
YOU HAVE TO FIGURE OUT A WAY TO GET IT UP.
>> BY THE WAY, HAVE -ALL HEARD ABOUT FLOATING SOLAR?
>> I HEARD ABOUT THE RIVER INQUIRY, YES.
>> WHEN THE QUESTION CAME, HOW MANY FISHING HOLES, WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO WITH THAT? I WROTE DOWN, FLOATING SOLAR.
THE HORROR OF JUST THINKING ABOUT THAT.
WE HAVE THAT AS A GOAL AND THEN WE HAVE THE STRATEGY TO MEET THAT GOAL.
DO YOU WANT A GOAL OF, AND YOU CAN SAY NO, BUT YOU TALKED ABOUT IT TWICE, WHO'S ENFORCING THE HOURS THEN THE NUMBER OF TRUCKS AND WHATEVER THE RESTRICTIONS THAT ARE BEING PUT ON THIS? DO YOU WANT ANYTHING TO BE PUT AS A GOAL AND THEN WHAT WOULD THE STRATEGY BE?
>> I KNOW THE STRATEGY WOULD BE HIRE ANOTHER.
>> I KNOW, BUT YOU GOT TO FIGURE OUT A WAY TO THEN OFFSET PAYING THAT PERSON.
>> MY IDEA WAS HAVE A PART TIME INSPECTOR WHO'S RETIRED FROM THE INDUSTRY, IF YOU WILL, LIKE A PART-TIME LIQUOR INSPECTOR.
THE FACT THAT HE EXISTS PUTS THE TERROR INTO YOUR LICENSEES, THEY NEVER KNOW WHEN THEY'RE GOING TO GET TESTED.
>> BUT ARE WE FIRST GOING TO FIND OUT WHAT MDE'S INSPECTION SCHEDULE IS AND SEE? ARE WE JUST ASSUMING THAT IT'S INSUFFICIENT?
>> THEY WOULD ENFORCE THE HOURS AND THE NUMBER OF TRUCKS.
>> I UNDERSTAND, BUT HERE'S THE CONSERVATIVE SIDE OF ME TOO.
WE'RE BUILDING BUREAUCRACY HERE, WHICH IS YOU GOT THREE, I THINK, PRETTY CONSERVATIVE THINKERS AS COMMISSIONERS.
DO WE REALLY WANT TO ADD, THOUGH, WE DO NEED AN ENFORCEMENT MECHANISM? THE OTHER THING IS, DO YOU WANT TO DRIVE UP THE COST FOR LOCALS WHO'S PUTTING UP A POLE BUILDING AND NEEDS STRUCTURAL DIRT BECAUSE THEY'RE GOING TO PASS THAT COST.
>> EVERYTHING'S CONNECTED BY NOW.
>> DO WE WANT TO LOOK AT THIS INDEPENDENTLY? THIS IS WHERE I WAS TALKING ABOUT THE DIFFERENT TYPES OF MINING.
I CAN SEE RIGHT NOW WE'RE GOING TO GO TO 25 DIFFERENT FARMERS AND SAY, BY THE WAY, NOW YOU GOT TO PAY FOR THIS.
THE THREE OF US, OUR PHONES WOULD BE BLOWN UP.
>> THERE'S A BALANCE HERE. YES, WE NEED AN ENFORCEMENT, A WAY TO DO THIS, BUT WE ALSO HAVE TO RECOGNIZE THE POLITICAL CLIMATE IN WHICH WE EXIST.
>> IS THE NUMBER OF TRUCKS THE BAROMETER?
>> THAT'S WHAT I WAS GOING TO SAY. IS IT THE SIZE?
>> YEAH. MAYBE ONCE YOU GET OVER A CERTAIN LOAD COUNT, I DON'T KNOW.
>> THAT TRIGGERS A POTENTIAL INSPECTION?
>> THAT MAY BE SOMETHING, I THINK.
>> I THINK YOUR IDEA ON THE RETIRED PARKS ON GUYS SPOT I THINK IS PROBABLY IS GREAT.
I'LL SAY SOMETHING, I DON'T EVEN KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THIS TECHNOLOGY, BUT MAYBE IN THE CURRENT PROCESS, YOU SAY YOU GOT TO AGREE TO HAVE A REMOTE CONTROL.
>> ON SOME OF THESE OPERATIONS, WE DO IT.
I CAN TELL YOU ONE PIT OUT ON 404, AN AG POND, A FIVE-ACRE PERMIT THAT, LET'S SAY, MAYBE HAD 100 LOADS HAULED OUT OF IT IN A YEAR ON AVERAGE.
WHEN THEY BUILT THE DENT IN WALMART, THEY HAULED ALL THE FILL FROM THE DENT IN WALMART THERE, SO THEY PROBABLY HAD 100 LOADS IN A MONTH.
THERE, AGAIN, IT'S DIFFERENT DEPENDING ON THE DIFFERENT USES.
>> IT'S BASICALLY UNENFORCEABLE.
>> BUT THE THING IS YOU TAKE SOMETHING LIKE THAT, AND THEY WERE ONLY PERMITTED FOR X AMOUNT OF TRUCKS.
>> I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THAT PERMIT SAID.
[01:30:02]
I KNOW I WAS TICKED OFF I DIDN'T GET THE DIRT SALE.SOMETHING'S GOING TO CHANGE. NOW WE'RE GOING TO RUN 100 TRUCKS A MONTH.
THE OWNER OF THAT PIT CAN AND COME IN HERE AND SAY, I JUST WANT TO LET YOU KNOW, WE'RE GOING TO RUN 100 TRUCKS AND I WANT PERMISSION TO RUN 100 TRUCKS IN.
>> FOR THE NEXT MONTH. WHY NOT?
>> BUT IT WOULD HAVE TO REALLY GO BEFORE BZA PROBABLY.
>> BECAUSE YOU'RE BETTER OFF TO ASK FOR FORGIVENESS THAN ASK PERMISSION.
>> THERE IS PROBABLY WHERE YOU WOULD NEED TO HAVE SOME LANGUAGE IN THE APPLICATION THAT STATES IF YOU CHANGE, AND SOME SPECIFIC WORDING, FROM WHAT YOU'RE BEING APPROVED, THAT YOU MUST COME BACK.
>> I BET THE AUDIENCE GETS SOME WORDS IN.
>> [OVERLAPPING] YOU APPROVED A LOT OF THEM.
>> I KNOW THE LAST TWO MINING OPERATIONS THAT WERE APPROVED, NOT ONLY WAS IT LOAD COUNT, HOURS OF OPERATION, NOISE ORDINANCES, THERE WAS ALSO ROAD RESTRICTIONS THAT THEY COULD NOT USE.
THE ONLY POLICING THAT YOU HAVE IS FROM THE COMMUNITY AROUND IT, AND MOST PEOPLE ARE GOING TO COMPLAIN ABOUT IT.
THEY'RE NEVER GOING TO CALL US IN, AND I'M JUST AS GUILTY BECAUSE LAST WEEK, AND THIS IS ON [INAUDIBLE], I'M COMING UP AND DOWN 313 FROM GREENSBORO TO GOLDSBORO SIX TIMES.
NOT ONCE DID THEY RUN A WATER TRUCK.
THE DUST COMING ACROSS LOOKED LIKE A STORM AND I'M LIKE, I SHOULD CALL INTO PLANNING CODES BECAUSE THAT'S A VIOLATION OF THEIR PERMIT.
>> I KNEW IT. I WAS JUST TOO LAZY TO TAKE THE TIME TO DO IT.
THAT'S THE SAME THING YOU'RE GOING TO GET WITH OTHER PEOPLE TRYING TO HOPE THAT THE COMMUNITIES ARE POLICING.
BECAUSE THEY'RE LIKE, I WAS GOING TO, BUT I JUST DIDN'T FEEL LIKE TAKING THE TIME TO MAKE THAT PHONE CALL.
>> WHICH ONE WAS THIS, AND WHAT DAY WERE YOU DRIVING BY THERE?
BECAUSE UNFORTUNATELY, I HAD TO GO BACK AND FORTH.
INSTEAD OF JUST BEING ABLE TO STAY AT ONE LOCATION, MOST OF THE DAY, I WAS BACK AND FORTH.
THE WATER TRUCKS WERE PARKED ALL DAY BECAUSE ON A BIG LOT RIGHT BY THE SCHOOL, THEY HAVE AT LEAST TWO WATER TRUCKS PARKED THERE.
THEY USUALLY HAVE ONE UP A LITTLE BIT FURTHER, BUT THAT WHOLE BASE HAS GOT TO ME.
I WANT TO BUY AN OLD DUMP TRUCK WITH SNOW PLOW AND POP ALL THE ARCHED CODES OFF THE [INAUDIBLE] SPEED LIMIT THING BECAUSE THAT'S RIDICULOUS.
IN AND OUT OF THAT LOCATION IS NO DIFFERENT THAN THEM COMING OUT OF UNION ROAD FOR THE VEHICLE.
I'VE COME UP ON PEOPLE, I'M RUNNING 52, 54 MILE AN HOUR AND THEY SLAM THEIR BRAKES ON THE 40 TO GO BY THAT CONSTRUCTION ZONE.
I'M LIKE, PLEASE, PEOPLE, JUST DRIVE THE SPEED LIMIT, BUT THAT'S A WHOLE DIFFERENT THING, BUT AS FAR AS THE POLICING AND THE COUNT TRUCKS, SOMEBODY'S ALMOST GOT TO SIT THERE ALL DAY.
TO PAY SOMEBODY TO SIT THERE AND DO ROAD COUNT OF THE AMOUNT OF TRUCKS GOING IN AND OUT, THE ONLY THAT THING YOU CAN DO IS IF THEY'RE VIOLATING, IS THE NEIGHBORS TO COMPLAIN.
>> THERE'S ALWAYS WAYS AROUND, LIKE YOU SAID.
IF THERE'S A PROBLEM, BECAUSE YOU CAN FIX IT, THEN YOU GET ROAD COUNTERS, THEN YOU DECIDE.
YOU PAY SOMEBODY TO SIT OUT THERE JUST LIKE THEY SIT IN THEIR LAWN CHAIR AT THE INTERSECTION AND COUNT CARS FOR A RED LIGHT.
THEY JUST SIT THERE. IF YOU EVER SEEN THEM, THEY JUST SIT THERE IN THEIR LAWN CHAIR.
>> BECAUSE I'VE BEEN IN [INAUDIBLE] OUT OF BRIDGETOWN, AND I'M GOING TO TAKE THE SHORTEST QUICKEST ROUTE, SO THAT'S WHAT I KNEW TO PUT IN.
LIKE THE LAST STAY OFF THE HOLLAND PARK CIRCLE.
IF I RESTRICT YOU FROM HOLLAND PARK CIRCLE, THAT KEEPS YOU OFF BRIDGETOWN ROAD, THAT KEEPS YOU OFF OF UNION ROAD FROM MAKING THAT SHORTCUT AND SAVING YOURSELF 10 OR 15 MINUTES, WHICH MIGHT GO FROM THREE LOADS A DAY THAT I COULD HAUL OUT OR FOUR LOADS A DAY THAT I COULD HAUL OUT TO ONLY GIVE YOU THREE LOADS A DAY, WHICH THE BOTTOM LINE, IT AFFECTS OUR [INAUDIBLE], SO I'M GOING SHORTEST ROUTE.
THE SAME THING, WHAT WE DID WITH WOOD FARM.
THEY GOT ACCESS TO THE ROAD, BUT THEY WERE ONLY ALLOWED TO TURN RIGHT AND THAT THEY WERE NOT ALLOWED TO TURN LEFT TO GO DOWN TO TUCKAHOE.
YOU TALK ABOUT ROAD STRUCTURE.
I'M GOING TO GO OFF ON ANOTHER SUBJECT, FROM 480 [INAUDIBLE] LANDFILL, THAT ROUTE IS FALLING TO PIECES WHEN YOU FIRST TURN ON IT, AND WHEN YOU GO AROUND THAT FIRST LANE, YOU HIT A DEAD BECAUSE OF THE WAY THE TRUCKS.
>> [OVERLAPPING] THAT ONE WAS REBUILT AND BROUGHT UP TO A SPEC THAT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE ABLE TO HANDLE IT.
>> BUT ANYWAY, WE BEAT THIS ONCE.
[01:35:02]
>> I HAVE NOTHING ON THE OTHER SECTION.
>> DO YOU WANT A GOAL TO BE THAT WE LOOK AT WHO OR HOW CAN ENFORCE THE HOURS, THE NUMBER OF TRUCKS, WHATEVER THE LIMITATIONS ARE? WHICH, BY THE WAY, TRAFFIC STUDIES NOW, PEOPLE USED TO SIT IN THE CAR AND COUNT WHEN YOU DID A TRAFFIC STUDY, IT'S ALL DONE SATELLITE.
THEY PUT UP THE COUNTERS, SO YOU COULD HAVE THOSE TRUCKS COUNTED VERY EASILY.
YOU JUST HAVE TO HAVE THE EQUIPMENT.
THEN IF YOU HAVE THAT AS A GOAL, THEN YOUR IMPLEMENTATION, ARE YOU GOING TO LOOK AT POSSIBLY GETTING A PART -TIME CONTRACT INSPECTOR, RAISE THE FEES WHEN YOU GET TO THAT PART OF THE ZONING CODE?
>> WOULD A PROPER PRIVATE PROPERTY OWNER BE ABLE TO PUT A CAMERA ON HIS PROPERTY? BECAUSE MY PROPERTY IS A FORK.
CHERRY LANE AND OAKLAND ROAD COME RIGHT TO A POINT, AND IT'S DIRECTLY TO THAT ENTRANCE OF THAT.
IF I PUT THE CAMERA RIGHT THERE, I CAN ZOOM RIGHT INTO THE FRONT ENTRANCE OF THAT.
>> IS THAT ADMISSIBLE IN COURT?
>> BECAUSE I'M THE PROPERTY OWNER.
IF I WANTED TO DO THAT, I COULD DO THAT.
RIGHT AT THE CORNER, I'M AT THE FORK RIGHT THERE, AND I CAN AIM IT STRAIGHT THERE.
I'M ONLY ABOUT A QUARTER OF A MILE.
I'M JUST LETTING YOU KNOW THAT WHEN YOU'RE SAYING THE PUBLIC, YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY CORRECT.
>> YOU CAN PUT CAMERAS ON YOUR OWN PRIVATE PROPERTY, YES.
>> I COULD DO THAT ON MY OWN IF I WANTED TO.
>> STEWART, IS IT LEGAL TO SET UP ALMOST AN ESCROW ACCOUNT AT THE APPLICATION POINT WHERE A PORTION OF YOUR FEE GOES INTO THAT FUND THAT EVENTUALLY IS GOING TO POLICE YOU, APPLICANT, ON YOUR OPERATION.
>> WE'VE ALREADY DONE IT IN THE DAF ORDINANCE.
>> BUILD THAT AND THEN TARGET IT TOWARDS, NOT EVERY OPERATION, BUT THE ONES THAT ARE 100 TRUCKS OR MORE A DAY OR 50 OR MORE A DAY OR YOU KNOW.
SOMEBODY HAS TO SET A THRESHOLD THAT'S REASONABLE.
>> I THINK THE LAST TIME IT WAS 70 LOADS A DAY.
>> WAS IT 100? BUT YOU GOT PEOPLE LIKE JOHN HAMMER THAT'S JUST ON OFF HIS FARM, TALKING ABOUT HIS OWN TRUCK IS NOT THE ONE.
>> ALL I'M SAYING IS THAT'S A GUY, YOU IMPOSE IT ON HIM, I F YOU'RE GOING TO PUT A POLE BILL ON NOTHING, YOU'RE INCREASING THE COST OF YOUR DIRT BECAUSE HE'S GOT TO PASS IT ON TO YOU OR ANYBODY SEEING THIS.
>> IT'S NO DIFFERENT THAN YOUR BID. THE OTHER DAY YOU SAID, NO, A TRUCK GOES BY THERE, AND ON SOME DAYS, IT MIGHT BE 20 TRUCKS.
>> IT ALL DEPENDS. WE JUST DID A WAREHOUSE PROJECT OUT HERE IN DENTON INDUSTRIAL PARK.
WE MIGHT HAVE HAULED 25 A DAY OUT THERE, AND THEN THE REST OF THE WEEK, WE MAY NOT HAUL ANYTHING OUT OF THERE.
>> IT'S THE LARGE MINING OPERATIONS.
>> I'M THINKING LIKE YOU DIFFERENTIATE WHEN YOU GET TO A WASH PLANT.
IF YOU HAVE A WASH PLANT, IF THERE'S A WASH PLANT GOAL, THEN THAT'S WHERE IT KICKS IN THE FEE, AND YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE SOMEBODY.
>> YOU WANT TO TALK ABOUT ECONOMIC HARDSHIP ON THE COUNTY.
WHAT ABOUT, AND I'M GOING TO REFER TO [INAUDIBLE] BECAUSE IT TOOK SO MUCH ACREAGE, BUT ONE FARMER TILLED A LARGE TOTAL OF THAT.
NOT ONLY DOES IT AFFECT HIM, HIS WHOLE HOUSEHOLD, BUT IT IS [INAUDIBLE] THEIR HOUSEHOLD.
THERE AIN'T BUT SO MUCH LAND IN THIS COUNTY TO TILL AND THERE'S ALWAYS THAT SAME AMOUNT OF FARMERS, AND HOPEFULLY, INCREASE A LITTLE BIT BECAUSE NEXT GENERATION OF FARMING.
YOU WANT YOUR CHILDREN TO SUCCEED AND GROW THE OPERATION.
>> IT'LL BE THERE, IT'LL BE THE GENERATIONS OF THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE FARM LAND, BUT I THINK SOLAR, THE UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCE OR ONE OF THE EFFECTS OF THIS HAS BEEN THAT IT HAS DRIVEN THE LAND VALUE SO HIGH THAT SOMEBODY WHO WANTED TO START FARMING COULD NOT DO IT.
THEY COULD NOT FARM AND CASH FLOW AT ALL.
THE NEXT GENERATION OF FARMERS, THEY HAVE TO INHERIT, AND IT'S GOING TO HAVE TO BE A FAMILY OR AN ESTABLISHED FARM BECAUSE THERE'S NO WAY YOU'RE GOING TO PAY 10 TO $12,000 AN ACRE FOR FARMLAND AND TILL IT AND CASH FLOW IT.
>> PART OF THE APPEAL TO TAKE AWAY, AS A LANDOWNER, IS THE AMOUNT OF INCOME.
YOU EITHER HAVE NO GENERATION NEXT TO TAKE OVER FOR YOU OR YOU PASSED AWAY AND THAT GENERATION DOESN'T WAN TO FARM AND THEY SEE THIS?
[01:40:05]
THAT'S WHERE IT MADE IT SO EASY.I HAD ONE MAN THAT WAS, I'M READY TO RETIRE AND I'VE GOT NO FAMILY.
I'VE GOT CHILDREN. THERE'S NO NEXT GENERATION HERE.
PLUS I THINK HE'S THE ONE THAT'S BEEN THE BIGGEST COMPLAINER OF THEY'RE DOING THIS AND THEY'RE DOING THAT, AND [INAUDIBLE] SAID THEY'RE DOING THIS.
>> I THINK WE'RE READY, BUT AS IN MY NOTES, SO I CAPTURED WASH PLANT, PUBLIC INPUT, 100 TRUCKS. IS IT 100? WHATEVER THAT NUMBER IS, I NEED ONE OF YOU, ALL OF YOU TO DEFINE, IS THAT 100 TOTAL TRIPS OR LITERALLY 50 TRUCKS TIMES TWO?
>> MAYBE WE JUST SAY WE SET IT BASED ON A CERTAIN LIMIT OF TRUCKS.
>> MY ASSUMPTION ON THAT WAS YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE 100 VEHICLES TURN INTO YOUR DRIVEWAY.
>> I DON'T CARE HOW MANY TRUCKS. YOU GOT ONE TRUCK.
>> IT'S THE NUMBER OF TRIPS. THAT'S WHAT HE'S SAYING.
>> BUT AT THIS POINT IN THE IMPLEMENTATION STRATEGIES, WE DON'T HAVE TO BE THAT SPECIFIC SPECIFIC.
WE SAY, AT THE ZONING CODE LEVEL, WE CONSIDER THINGS LIKE NUMBER OF TRUCKS OR TRIPS, IS THERE A WASH PLANT? SOMETHING TO TRIGGER AN INSPECTION NEED AT LEAST ANNUALLY, POTENTIALLY.
DON'T WORRY ABOUT THE TRUCK COUNT, WORRY ABOUT THE LOAD HAULED OUT PER DAY.
>> BECAUSE IF THEY'RE ALSO BRINGING BACKHOES IN AND THERE'S 20 LOADS OF STONE GOING OUT THERE A DAY, THAT'S LOADS PER DAY.
>> IS IT WHAT YOU'RE HAULING OUT, PERIOD?
>> THE GUY GOES OUT WITH A LOAD, COMES BACK IN WITH A LOAD.
>> HE'S COMING IN AND HE'S GOING OUT WITH A LOAD.
>> I'M SAYING IF THEY'RE BACK-HAULING, THEY'RE BRINGING THAT IN,.
>> THAT'S WHERE YOU CAPTURE TWO.
>> TRUST ME. BECAUSE I'VE BEEN THERE, I'VE BEEN IN THAT SEAT.
WHEN I LEFT OUT OF THAT YARD WITH A LOAD OF SAND GOING ACROSS THE BRIDGE, I BROUGHT BACK STONE AND DUMPED ON THAT YARD.
I LOADED MY NEXT LOAD OF SAND TO GO BACK OUT AND GET ANOTHER LOAD OF STONE TO BRING BACK IN.
YES, I'M COMING IN AND OUT, BUT I'M HAULING EQUAL LOADS PER DAY.
DOESN'T ALWAYS EQUAL A LOAD OUT BECAUSE I HAVE LEFT ANOTHER QUARRY OR A MINERAL WITH THE LOAD OF BANK RUN TO GO TO THIS FARMER THAT'S BUILDING A LANE ACROSS THIS FIELD.
NOW I'M GOING TO GO IN THERE BECAUSE IT'S CLOSED AND PICK THE LOAD OF STONE UP.
I WENT IN TOTALLY EMPTY, AND I'M COMING OUT WITH A 70,000 POUND LOAD NOW TO HAUL BACK AND PUT IT ON TOP OF THAT BANK RUN THAT WE JUST SPREAD.
LOADS OUT IS GOING TO GET GREATER THAN LOADS IN.
>> BUT IF YOU SAY TRIPS VERSUS LOADS, AND IT'S TERMINOLOGY, BUT IF YOU GO OUT LOADED AND YOU COME BACK LOADED, THAT SHOULD COUNT AS TWO BECAUSE THAT'S WEAR AND TEAR ON THAT ROAD.
>> IS IT COUNTED AS TWO OR ONE?
>> YOU COME BACK UP THE HILL, SO IT'S STILL A TRIP.
>> I'M STILL SEEING TWO BECAUSE IF YOU COME BACK EMPTY THE IMPACT IS NOT AS GREAT.
>> I KNOW WHAT YOU'RE SEEING, BUT WHEN THEY'RE PRESENTING TO THE BZA AND WHEN THEY'RE PRESENT TO US, THEY'RE PRESENTING IT AS 100 OUTBOUND LOADS.
>> BUT THAT'S WHERE WE WANT TO QUALIFY IT NOW.
NOW IS THE TIME TO CLARIFY THAT.
>> I THINK YOU'RE BETTER OFF WITH LOADS, ESPECIALLY IF THEY'VE GOT A WASH PLANT.
I'LL GO BACK TO MOST OF THE TIME WITH GREENS PIT, IF THEY'RE HAULING SOMETHING IN, IT'S MAYBE SOME OLD TREE OR SOME SOME CONCRETE.
NOWADAYS, WITH EVERYBODY ELSE, AND YOU GUYS HAVE A GRINDER FOR THE CONCRETE.
>> FOR RECYCLING, BUT I STILL BELIEVE 100% BECAUSE I'VE BEEN THERE, IF YOU COUNT LOADS.
>> THEY'RE NOT AS HEAVY. ARE THE INBOUND NOT AS HEAVY AS HEAVY?
>> THE INBOUND IS GOING TO BE JUST AS HEAVY.
>> THEN YOU HAVE TO COUNT THAT BECAUSE THAT'S AN IMPACT.
>> YOU'RE GETTING PAID PER TON.
>> I TOTALLY UNDERSTAND THAT, AND NOBODY SHOULD EVER COME BACK EMPTY IF YOU'RE IN THE TRUCKING BUSINESS.
[01:45:03]
YOU SHOULD NEVER COME BACK EMPTY.>> BUT IT'S NOT HAPPENING IF YOU'RE JUST RUNNING LOCAL.
>> I GET THAT, BUT FOR EVERY LOAD, YOU ARE LOADED.
I DON'T CARE IF YOU'RE COMING IN OR OUT, IT IMPACTS THAT ROAD.
THE CONTEXT OF THIS IS A STRATEGY TO ADDRESS THE GOAL THAT WILL BE IN BOLD TO PROTECT THE TRANSPORTATION NETWORK OF THE COUNTY.
THAT IS EVERY LOAD IN AND OUT.
>> IF YOU WANT TO DEFINE IT THAT WAY, STAND BY BECAUSE IT'S GOING TO BE 200.
>> [OVERLAPPING] THE MINUTIA WILL BE WITH THE CODE.
>> WHEN WE GET TO PUTTING THIS IN THE SPECIFIC LANGUAGE IS AT THE ZONING CODE UPDATE.
FOR NOW, THE LANGUAGE WILL BE GENERAL.
>> WHAT ABOUT OUT THERE AT A HYPOTHETICAL? BOTH OF OURS ARE ON STATE HIGHWAYS.
THE TRUCK'S GOING IN OR GOING OUT, THE NEIGHBOR AND PROPERTY OWNER DOESN'T CARE IF IT'S LOADED OR NOT, IT DOESN'T HAVE ANY EFFECT ON THEM.
>> BECAUSE THEY'RE ON THE STATE ROAD?
>> DUMP TRUCK TAGS ARE $2,000 A YEAR TO GET A DUMP TRUCK TAG.
BUT THE STATE KEEPS ALL OF THAT.
THAT'S WHERE I DRAW THE LINE TOO.
THAT'S ANOTHER REASON WHY IT SHOULD BE DIRECTED ONTO [OVERLAPPING] THE STATE ROAD.
>> ANOTHER POTENTIAL TRIGGER IN ADDITION TO THE AMOUNT OF TRUCKS THAT ARE PERMITTED TO COME IN AND OUT DURING THE DAY, WHETHER OR NOT THERE'S A WASH PLANT AND ARE THEY USING COUNTY ROADS TO ACCESS THE PROPERTY?
>> [OVERLAPPING] THAT SHOULD HAVE A BIG EFFECT ON YOUR LOAD COUNT.
THAT SHOULD BE A BIGGER CONSIDERATION ON YOUR LOAD COUNT, MAX, BUT I THINK THE LOAD COUNT OR THE TRIPS, IT SHOULD BE THE TRUCKS GOING IN OR COMING OUT.
YOU GOT TO GO IN TO GET LOADED.
THAT SHOULD BE LOADED OR UNLOADED.
WHAT JEFF'S SAYING, THAT SHOULD BE COUNTED AS ONE TRIP, IN MY OPINION.
>> [OVERLAPPING] TO BE FAIR, YOU'RE RIGHT.
BUT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT IMPACT TO ROAD.
I GUESS WE SHOULD ASSUME IF IT GOES IN, IT'S COMING OUT.
>> [OVERLAPPING] THEY'RE GOING TO GO OUT OF BUSINESS, SO WE'RE NOT GOING TO WORRY ABOUT THAT.
[OVERLAPPING] WHEN WE'RE AT THE CODE LEVEL DETERMINING WHAT ARE WE TALKING ABOUT DOLLAR WISE AT APPLICATION TIME AND WHAT ARE WE TALKING ABOUT HOW MANY IS THIS GOING TO IMPACT BASED ON TRUCK LOADS, WE DON'T WANT TO PING THEM UNFAIRLY, BUT WE NEED TO BE REALISTIC THAT 100 IS REALLY 200.
I WOULD JUST SAY THAT. [OVERLAPPING] WHEN GET TO THE DISCUSSION AT CODE, WHICH YOU GUYS WILL BE DOING, THAT THIS DISCUSSION HAPPENS AT THAT LEVEL.
>> WELL, AND HERE'S THE HYPOTHETICAL TOO.
YOU COME IN EMPTY FIRST THING IN THE MORNING BECAUSE YOU'RE COMING THERE TO PICK UP A LOAD.
>> NO. THEY PRELOAD THE NIGHT BEFORE.
>> THEY PRELOAD THE NIGHT BEFORE.
>> [OVERLAPPING] NOBODY'S COMING IN EMPTY.
>> WELL, THEN IT'S COUNTED THE NIGHT BEFORE AS A LOAD COMING OUT.
>> [OVERLAPPING] JUST SOME OF YOU, YOU SAY WHAT GOES IN MUST COME OUT.
SOME OF THEM THEY GO IN, PRELOAD, PARK, GET IN THEIR PICK UP AND GO HOME AND COME BACK.
THAT'S WHAT I USED TO DO. WE PARKED AT THE PIT.
>> [OVERLAPPING] THERE'S SOME WHO MAY GO OUT TO HOBBS AND DOUBLE LOAD AT THE BACK HOLE STONE MAY GO TO HOBBS OR IT MAY GO TO ATLANTA CONCRETE OVER IN HARRINGTON OR IT MAY GO TO CHANEY'S PLANT IN QUEENSTOWN, AND ON THEIR WAY BY, THEY DROP IT AT THE CONCRETE PLANT [OVERLAPPING] AND THEN THEY DRIVE EMPTY.
>> IF YOU'RE DROPPING IN BETWEEN AND PICKING UP AND DROPPING, I DON'T THINK THOSE COUNT.
IT'S JUST, YOU'RE COMING DOWN THIS ROAD TO GO TO THIS PROPERTY.
YOU COME IN WITH A LOAD, THAT'S ONE LOAD.
YOU GO BACK OUT WITH A LOAD, [OVERLAPPING] THAT'S ANOTHER LOAD.
THAT'S TWO. MINUTIA WE CAN GET TO AT THE CODE.
>> BUT THAT LOAD DIDN'T AFFECT WHAT CAME OUT OF THE GROUND.
>> DIDN'T AFFECT WHAT CAME OUT OF THE GROUND.
IT AFFECTED THE ROAD THAT YOU DROVE ON TO GET THERE WITH THAT HEAVY LOAD.
>> UNLESS IT'S A [OVERLAPPING] STATE ROAD THAT WE DON'T CARE ABOUT.
>> WE'RE GOING TO MOVE ON TO RESOURCE.
[Resource Conservation]
[OVERLAPPING] THOUGHT THIS WAS THE EASY ONE.>> IN JUNE, WE'LL COME BACK WITH THE ADDITIONAL STRATEGIES AND GOALS YOU GUYS WANT US TO CHANGE.
WE'LL ALSO HAVE ANSWERS TO THE QUESTIONS ABOUT [OVERLAPPING] MDE.
>> WELL, I THINK WHEN WE DRILL DOWN INTO THE IMPORTANT THING IS TO DIFFERENTIATE BETWEEN THE DIFFERENT TYPES OF OPERATIONS, AND THE IMPACTS THAT THEY HAVE.
>> YES. BEFORE WE GO ON TO THE NEXT ONE, CAN I JUST GET A THING OF WATER, PLEASE?
[01:50:15]
>> TRAVIS, I THINK, TO ADDRESS THAT THAT WE CALL OUT THAT ALL MINING OPERATIONS ARE NOT THE SAME, THAT WILL PROBABLY BE A PARAGRAPH ADDED TO THE TEXT PART?
>> YEAH. I THINK THAT WAS MISSED WHEN ALL OF THIS WAS IMPLEMENTED.
THEY DID THE MAJOR AND THE MINOR THING, BUT I DON'T THINK THAT ADDRESSED IT ALL.
>> I THOUGHT YOU SAID THAT WAS THE EASY ONE.
>> BUT RESOURCE CONSERVATION WON'T BE THAT DIFFICULT.
>> ARE YOU JUST GOING TO JINX ME NOW?
>> [LAUGHTER] YES. SORRY. A LOT OF WHAT WAS IN THE ORIGINAL CHAPTER [OVERLAPPING] IS BEING MADE INTO DIFFERENT MORE RELEVANT CHAPTERS?
>> YES. IF YOU LOOKED THROUGH THE RED LINE, THERE'S QUITE A BIT THAT'S GETTING MOVED TO OTHER CHAPTERS.
THAT'S WHY IT LOOKS SO MUCH THINNER FROM THIS BIG BULKY ONE.
YOU WON'T HAVE TO LOOK AT IT AND ADDRESS IT TONIGHT.
YOU'LL JUST HAVE TO LOOK AT IT WHEN WE GET TO THE CHAPTERS THAT WE'RE THROWING IT INTO.
YOU WANT TO GIVE A COUPLE MINUTES FOR THEM TO COME BACK?
>> WE'RE NOT GOING TO ADJOURN OR ANYTHING, BUT WE WOULD JUST TAKE [OVERLAPPING] A MINUTE HERE AND LET EVERYBODY SHOW BACK UP.
>> BACK. WE'LL COME OUT IN THIS BRIEF RECESS.
[01:55:01]
THE NEXT ONE WAS RESOURCE CONSERVATION, IS THE CHAPTER 3, RESOURCE CONSERVATION.MS. OLIVIA, IS THERE ANYTHING THAT YOU WOULD LIKE TO?
>> I'M GOING TO SOUND LIKE A BERGEN PARROT AND JUST SAY THAT WE WANT TO LOOK AT THE GOALS, WHICH IS ON THE FIRST PAGE, THE FOUR BULLETS.
THEN YOU WANT TO GO AND LOOK AT PAGE 12, START YOUR IMPLEMENTATION.
CONTINUES OVER TO THE LAST PAGE.
YOUR GOALS FOR THE RESOURCE CONSERVATION CHAPTER IS TO CONTINUE TO RESTRICT NEW DEVELOPMENT IN SENSITIVE AREAS, PROTECT HABITATS OF RARE, THREATENED OR ENDANGERED SPECIES, CONSERVE AND REPLACE FOREST AND WOODLAND RESOURCES THROUGH TREE CONSERVATION, REFORESTATION, AND COMPLIANCE WITH THE MARYLAND FOREST CONSERVATION ACT.
PROTECT SOILS CLASSIFIED AS PRIME FARMLAND AND FARMLAND OF STATEWIDE IMPORTANCE.
THEN YOUR IMPLEMENTATION AGAIN, STARTS ON PAGE 12 AT THE VERY BOTTOM.
DRAFT AND ADOPT CAROLINE COUNTY, CHESAPEAKE BAY CRITICAL AREA PROGRAM REGULATIONS, WHICH I'LL JUST SIDEBAR ON THAT AND SAY, MATT IS WORKING ON THAT CURRENTLY.
THE CRITICAL AREA REGULATIONS ARE IN PLACE, AND HE'S WORKING ON WHAT WILL BE PART OF THE ZONING CODE, AND THAT WILL ALL BE ADOPTED.
SECOND ONE IS MINIMIZE LARGE SCALE NON AGRICULTURAL USES ON DESIGNATED PRIME FARMLAND AND FARMLAND OF STATEWIDE IMPORTANCE TO PROTECT VALUABLE SOILS.
THIRD ONE IS CONTINUE TO ENHANCE GIS TECHNOLOGY RESOURCES TO IMPROVE ACCURACY OF NATURAL AND HERITAGE RESOURCES DATA, ALLOWING FOR IMPROVED PLANNING TO CONSERVE VALUABLE RESOURCES.
THE LAST ONE IS ENSURE THAT COUNTY REGULATIONS SUPPORT THE PRESERVATION AND PROTECTION OF HISTORIC AND HERITAGE RESOURCES TO THE EXTENT POSSIBLE.
IF YOU WANT TO GO BACK AND LOOK AT THE GOALS.
>> WELL, FIRST THING THAT JUMPED OUT OF ME WHEN I LOOKED AT THIS.
PROTECT SOILS CLASSIFIED AS PRIME FARM LAND AND FARM LAND OF STATEWIDE.
THEN WE HAVE OUR IMPLEMENTATION.
MINIMIZE LARGE SCALE NON AGRICULTURAL USE OF DESIGNATED PRIME FARMLAND AND FARMLAND OF STATEWIDE IMPORTANCE.
YET WE CANNOT PROTECT OUR FARMLAND.
IT SAYS THAT IN OUR CHAPTER, WE'RE GOING TO PROTECT OUR FARMLAND, BUT WE CAN'T PROTECT OUR PRIME FARM.
WE'RE NOT ALLOWED TO FROM SOLAR.
WE CAN PROTECT IT FROM OTHER STUFF.
WALMART CAN'T PUT THEIR SUPER WAREHOUSE ON THAT 200 ACRE FARM, BUT THEY CAN DIG IT UP OR THEY CAN PUT SOLAR PANELS.
>> BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN WE DON'T DECLARE THAT WE WANT TO.
>> [OVERLAPPING] I AGREE WITH YOU.
>> WE ARE LITERALLY GOING ON THE RECORD SAYING, THIS IS A PRIORITY.
>> YES, AND I AGREE WITH THIS.
IT WAS JUST WHEN I WAS READING IT, I WAS LIKE.
BUT THAT COULD CHANGE IN TWO YEARS, THREE YEARS, RIGHT?
>> IT COULD. STEWART CAN TOUCH A LITTLE BIT ON HOW LANGUAGE LIKE THIS IN A COMPREHENSIVE PLAN CAN PAUSE A JUDGE IN A DETERMINATION OVER WHETHER A PROJECT IS GOING AGAINST THE COUNTY'S LAND USE POLICY AND GOALS.
>> IT IS OFTEN USED TO TRY TO OVERTURN A DECISION BY THE PLANNING COMMISSION OR BY THE BZA APPROVING A PROJECT THAT WHEN YOU COMPARE THE PROJECT TO THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, THE PLANNING COMMISSION OR THE BZA VIOLATED WHAT THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO DO BECAUSE ONE OF THE CRITERIA, IN FACT, SOME PEOPLE WOULD SAY THE MOST IMPORTANT CRITERIA IS WHETHER OR NOT THE PROJECT IS [OVERLAPPING] CONSISTENT WITH THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN.
IN FACT, IT SHOULD BE A FINDING OF FACT THAT THE PLANNING COMMISSION OR THE BZA MAKES ON THE RECORD AS PART OF ITS DECISION.
>> WE'RE THINKING OF SOLAR AND THE FACT THAT WE WANT TO HAVE IN ALL OF OUR CORE PLANNING DOCUMENTS, AT LEAST THE DECLARATION OF INTENT TO PRESERVE VALUABLE SOILS AND FARMLAND AND PROTECT IT FROM NON AGRICULTURAL USES.
>> CORRECT. I'M JUST TOSSING THIS OUT AS A POSSIBILITY.
I'M NOT SAYING YOU SHOULD DO IT.
BUT A STATEMENT IN YOUR COMPREHENSIVE PLAN ABOUT WHAT THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY HAS DONE DELAYED USE PLANNING.
[02:00:02]
>> WE ARE DOING THAT. THAT'S IN THE PRIORITY PRESERVATION AREA CHAPTER.
>> I'VE WORDED IT VERY HARSHLY.
THOSE ARE THE TWO AREAS WHERE WE'LL TALK SPECIFICALLY ABOUT THE LEGISLATION AND THE IMPACTS TO THE COUNTY AND AG IN GENERAL.
>> [OVERLAPPING] I KNOW NOT TO GIVE TRAVIS A HEART ATTACK DOWN HERE.
THE WAY THIS IS WRITTEN, WE VOTE NO.
>> THEN MAKE THEM TAKE US TO COURT.
>> YOU'RE UPHOLDING YOUR COMP PLAN.
>> THE COURT IS GOING TO GRANT IT TO HIM BECAUSE THEY SAY WE HAVE TO.
>> BUT IS IT TOO GENERAL TO HOLD UP IN COURT?
>> IT'S PRETTY STRAIGHT FORWARD.
>> WE WANT TO PROTECT OUR PRIME FARM LAND.
>> IN THIS DOCUMENT, THAT IS A STRONGLY WORDED GOAL.
THE STRONGEST ARGUMENTS ABOUT THAT WILL BE IN THE PRIORITY PRESERVATION AREA AND IN LAND USE.
BUT WE WANTED TO SPRINKLE THIS THROUGH AS MANY ELEMENTS AS WE COULD TO SHOW A UNIFYING THEME THAT IT IMPACTS ALL OF THE PARTS OF OUR COMPREHENSIVE PLAN AND ALL OF THE PARTS OF THE COUNTY.
THAT'S WHY YOU'RE SEEING IT IN THIS CHAPTER ALSO.
I DON'T KNOW IF YOU'VE NOTICED IT, BUT IT WAS ALSO IN THE MINERAL RESOURCES CHAPTER.
WE'RE PUTTING IT EVERYWHERE, BUT IT'S BEING COMPREHENSIVELY ADDRESSED IN THE PRIORITY PRESERVATION AREA CHAPTER.
>> OTHER THAN THAT, I HAD NO PROBLEM WITH ANY OF IT, OTHER THAN JUST THAT STATEMENT THERE, IT WAS JUST LIKE A SLAP IN THE FACE.
>> OTHER THAN THAT, FROM THE STUFF THAT I READ, IT WAS GOOD.
>> IT'S USED IN COURT JUST LIKE STEWART SAID, BUT IT'S ALSO USED, CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG.
LET'S SAY A COUNTY DECIDES TO GO TO COURT AND TRY TO OVERTURN LEGISLATION.
IT BECOMES A BASIS OF WHY THEY'RE TRYING TO ASK FOR THAT AS WELL. IS THAT RIGHT, STEWART?
>> WELL, IF IT'S YOUR OWN LEGISLATION.
>> NO. I THINK YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT STATE.
>> [OVERLAPPING] YOU HOLD UP YOUR COMP PLAN.
>> RIGHT, AND SAY, WE WANT TO GO TO COURT.
THEY'RE GOING TO LOOK AT YOUR COMP PLAN AND THE WORDING IN THAT AS WELL.
>> [OVERLAPPING] YOU BETTER HAVE MENTIONED IT IN YOUR COMP PLAN.
>> YOU BETTER HAD. LET'S PUT IT THIS WAY.
YES. IF YOU'RE GOING TO FIGHT THE STATE ON A PIECE OF THEIR LEGISLATION.
REMEMBER, IT'S NOT FIGHTING THE LEGISLATION SO MUCH AS IT IS BECAUSE YOUR LEGISLATION STANDS.
THE PREEMPTION ONLY TAKES PLACE WHEN THE PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION GRANTS AN APPLICATION AND IGNORES THE COUNTY ORDINANCE.
[OVERLAPPING] IT'S SIMPLY IGNORED.
>> OUR 2,00 ACRE CAP IS STILL IN EFFECT.
UNLESS THE PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION APPROVES THE PROJECT OVER 2,000 ACRES AND PREEMPTS OUR 2,000 ACRE CAP.
THEN IT GOES BACK INTO EFFECT UNTIL THE NEXT HEARING FOR THE NEXT APPLICATION IN FRONT OF THE PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION, WHERE THEY COULD SAY, MAYBE WE HAVE A DIFFERENT JUDGE WHO SAYS, YOU KNOW WHAT? CAROLINE COUNTY HAS A LEGITIMATE ARGUMENT.
THEY SHOULD PRESERVE AGRICULTURE.
>> ALSO, DON'T FORGET, NOT EVERY SOLAR PROJECT IS THE SAME.
IT'S LIKE THE SERVICE MINES. THEY ARE DIFFERENT.
THE ONE WE'RE FIGHTING AT THE MOMENT, CHAVERTON, IS IN A GROWTH AREA FOR A MUNICIPALITY.
>> THAT IS GOING TO BE A LITTLE BIT OF A KINK IN THAT ONE.
>> THAT YOU JUST NEVER KNOW, YOU GET THE RIGHT JUDGE THAT HANGS UP ON THAT, LEGALLY, THEY'RE NOT REQUIRED TO APPROVE EVERY APPLICATION.
THEY HAVE A TENDENCY TO APPROVE OVERWHELMINGLY MOST OF THEM, BUT EVERY ONCE IN A WHILE, YOU MIGHT FIND ONE OF THEM GOING, I WOULD DO MY JOB AS A COURT JUDGE, INSTEAD OF AS A JUDGE WHO'S RUBBER STAMPING, ANYTHING THAT COMES IN FRONT OF ME.
WE KNOW THERE'S AT LEAST ONE OF THEM UP THERE THAT IS HALF DECENT.
>> I'M SORRY, GO AHEAD, ROGER.
>> I JUST SAID WE WON'T GO AND ADD NAMES ON THAT ONE.
>> THEY MIGHT NOT BE THERE ANYMORE.
>> THERE'S ONE THAT CHEWED ON CHAVERTON OUT IN QUEEN ANNE'S COUNTY, AND THAT ONE. JESSE'S ALL OVER IT.
[02:05:02]
>> I DID HEAR THAT ONE COUNTY THEY'RE GETTING THEIR ATTORNEY TO TRY TO CHALLENGE THE SOLAR LAW. I'M NOT SURE WHICH COUNTY.
IT'S EASTERN SHORE, OBVIOUSLY.
DO YOU WANT TO ADD ANY GOALS, OR DO YOU WANT TO ADD ANY ADDITIONAL WORDING TO THOSE GOALS THAT ARE SHOWN?
>> I DON'T HAVE NO NEED. I DON'T KNOW ABOUT THE REST, IF THEY DISSECTED THIS APART SITTING IN THEIR LIVING ROOMS.
SOME OF THE STUFF THAT WAS MARKED OUT LIKE LAND PRESERVATION AND THAT TYPE, IS THAT GOING TO BE IN LAND USE LATER? WHERE IS THAT GOING TO FALL?
>> IT'S GOING TO FALL ON LAND USE AND THEN PRIORITY PRESERVATION.
>> PRIORITY PRESERVATION AREA.
>> PRIORITY PRESERVATION IS WHERE I'VE ALREADY GOT CAPITAL LETTERS IN THIS SIZE FONT.
>> IT'S SOLAR MINING AND HOUSING DEVELOPMENT.
>> IF YOU DON'T HAVE ANYTHING ON YOUR GOALS THAT YOU WOULD LIKE TO ADD TO OR CHANGE, IS THERE ANYTHING UNDER THE IMPLEMENTATION THAT YOU WANT TO ADD TO, CHANGE? IT STARTS ON PAGE 12 AT THE BOTTOM.
>> WELL, HE'S GOING BY THE PACKET PAGE.
>> WE'RE CONSERVING PAPER HERE.
>> I KNOW. I ALMOST PRINTED IT, AND IT'S TOO MUCH.
>> THEY LISTED ALL THESE HISTORIC BUILDINGS HERE.
THIS LIST, IS THIS EVERYTHING IN CAROLINE COUNTY THAT'S HISTORIC?
>> ALL THESE PROPERTIES THAT ARE NATIONAL REGISTER.
>> WHAT PAGE ARE YOU ON? YOU STARTING ON PAGE 8 WITH THE PROPERTIES LISTED ON THE NATIONAL REGISTER OF HISTORIC PLACES, YES.
IF YOU GO AND LOOK AT THE RED COPY, THERE WERE A LOT ADDED BETWEEN 2010 AND 2025, AND I ADDED ALL OF THEM.
IT WAS REALLY INTERESTING TO READ UP ON SOME OF THESE.
I THINK IT'S PRETTY WELL-COVERED.
>> DRAFTED DOWN TO COUNTY ASSESSMENT.
THIS IS A BIG PICTURE OVERALL CHAPTER? IT'S A BIG PICTURE, IT'S NOT A LOT OF FINITE DETAIL.
>> IT'S GOT TO BE A LAND USE WHERE SOME OF THIS IS GOING.
>> IT'S AN INVENTORY OF WHAT OUR PROTECTED NATURAL RESOURCES ARE, AND THEY ARE PROTECTED BY REGULATIONS.
OUR REGULATIONS DO THE LIFTING IN TERMS OF OUR GOALS TO PRESERVE AND PROTECT.
THEY DON'T CHANGE APART FROM THE HISTORIC REGISTER.
SOME CHANGES TO ENDANGERED OR THREATENED SPECIES YEAR TO YEAR, BUT STEEP SLOPES STAY WHERE THEY ARE, CRITICAL AREA, A LITTLE BIT OF CHANGE.
>> FLOOD PLANE PROBABLY HAD A LITTLE BIT OF CHANGE.
>> FLOOD PLANE HAD A LITTLE, BUT VERY LITTLE.
WE'RE NOT TALKING A HUGE TURNOVER WITH THESE.
>> CRITICAL AREA LINE CHANGED LAST YEAR OR THE YEAR BEFORE JUST A LITTLE, BUT IT'S JUST REALLY BETTER TECHNOLOGY AND INFORMATION THAT'S OUT THERE, GIS.
>> WETLANDS ARE STILL WETLANDS, FORESTS ARE STILL FORESTS.
>> I JUST HAD A THOUGHT, MAYBE WE SHOULD RESTRICT THE AMOUNT OF SURFACE MINING THAT GOES ON NOW UNTIL THE SOLAR PANELS ARE REMOVED, BECAUSE THEN WE CAN DIG IT ALL UP AFTER 20 YEARS, WHEN THE SOLAR PANELS ARE OBSOLETE, AND THE GROUND'S NOT ANY GOOD FOR ANYTHING ELSE.
[02:10:01]
>> THAT'S GOOD. RESTRICT IT TO RETIRED SOLAR FARMS?
>> I'M GETTING READY TO WRITE THAT DOWN.
>> THERE'S ONE THING I SAW UP ON PAGE 1, AND I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S JUST A WORDING ISSUE.
>> WHERE YOU GUYS TALK ABOUT CHOPTANK RIVER AND LISTED THE TUCKAHOE RIVER, BUT A FEW YEARS AGO, AND I DON'T KNOW IF THIS WOULD MAKE A DIFFERENCE IF IT EVER CAME UP AS A LAWSUIT, THE STATE CHANGED THE TUCKAHOE RIVER TO TUCKAHOE CREEK.
>> THAT WAS UNDER THE RESOURCE PRESERVATION?
>> THIS IS ONE THAT WE'RE WORKING ON RIGHT NOW? I NOTICED IT, AND I SAW A COUPLE OF DIFFERENT TIMES MENTIONED AS THE TUCKAHOE RIVER.
I KNOW SOMETIMES WORDING IN A COURT CASE COULD BE THE DIFFERENCE IN A YES OR NO DECISION.
>> THANK YOU. I CAN DO A WORD SEARCH ON THAT.
>> WHEN DID THEY CHANGE AT THE CREEK?
>> IT'S BEEN 2, 3, MAYBE FOUR YEARS AGO.
IT'S PROBABLY LONGER THAN YOU THINK, TRAVIS.
BECAUSE EVERYBODY THAT I KNOW THAT HAS HOUSES ON THERE THEY HAD TO CHANGE SOME OF THE WORDING.
>> WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE IN DETERMINING CREEK OR RIVER?
>> APPARENTLY, IT CHANGED FOUR YEARS AGO.
>> THAT WAS A RIDICULOUS CHANGE.
>> [OVERLAPPING] DEFINITION OF WHAT A CREEK IS VERSUS A RIVER? LET'S SEE.
>> SILTING IT PROBABLY DID IT.
>> IS IT LIKE WITH MARSHY HOOP RIVER, I THINK, YEARS AGO?
>> I DON'T KNOW IF IT HAS TO DO WITH NAVIGABLE WATER DEPTH, IF THAT AS A TRIGGER?
>> IT ALSO COULD BE THE NARROWING OF THE DECK, THE MOUTH OF IT.
>> THEY DID THE RULE CHANGE FOR WATERS OF THE US IN THE LAST FEW YEARS, SO I WONDER IF THAT MIGHT HAVE HAD AN IMPACT.
>> I DON'T KNOW. THAT WAS JUST ONE THING I SAW WHILE I WAS READING, THAT'S ALL.
MAYBE HELP GET THE BZA TO MAKE A LITTLE MORE DECISION WOULD BE TO KNOW THAT THERE'S WORDING IN A COMPREHENSIVE PLAN THAT SAYS, DO WHAT YOU HAVE TO DO TO PRESERVE THE PRIME FARMLAND.
>> I DON'T EVER REMEMBER KNOWING THAT FACTOR.
I KNOW I'M BEING RECORDED, I DON'T CARE.
I SAT THERE HOPING FOR A REASON TO BE ABLE TO SAY NO, BUT WHEN YOU GO BY YOUR RULES AND REGULATIONS, THERE WAS NOTHING IN THERE, BUT TO SAY THAT, WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO TO PRESERVE THIS PRIME FARMLAND? BUT I THINK A DEFINITION OF PRIME FARMLAND, TO ME, ALL FARMLAND IS PRIME.
>> I'M READING IN HERE. 41%, 82,000 ACRES OF CAROLINE COUNTY IS CLASSIFIED PRIME FARMLAND.
PRIME FARMLAND IS OF MAJOR IMPORTANCE.
>> IT'S MAPPED THE ACTUAL LOCATIONS, AND IT'S DETERMINED BY USDA.
>> IS THIS ON PRIME FARMLAND? IS A GOOD QUESTION.
>> IT IS ON FEDERAL GRANT APPLICATIONS.
NUMBER 1, FIRST QUESTION IS, IS THIS PROJECT LOCATED ON PRIME FARMLAND? NUMBER 1.
>> WITH THAT ONE, CAN YOU SAY NO?
>> THE QUESTION NOW, CAN WE BRING UP A MAP THAT SHOWS WHETHER THIS IS PRIME FARMLAND, AND IT BEING IS PRIME FARMLAND?
>> THAT CAN BE A QUESTION ON THE APPLICATION.
>> IS THIS PROJECT LOCATED ON PRIME FARMLAND?
>> LET ME TO MAKE A NOTE OF THAT.
>> I'M ADDING THAT. THAT COULD BE A POLICY CHANGE RIGHT NOW.
>> IT SAYS, LARGE-SCALE NON-AGRICULTURAL PROJECT.
OUR COMP PLAN IS SAYING THAT, AND YET WE'RE APPROVING IT BECAUSE SOMEBODY TELLING US WE CAN DENY IT.
I SAY, DENY IT, AND MAKE THEM TAKE US TO COURT.
MAKE THE GOVERNOR COME DOWN HERE AND SAY.
[NOISE] [LAUGHTER] TRAVIS DON'T WANT TO HEAR THAT, BUT AT WHAT POINT DO YOU STOP? NOW, I CAN SEE IF WE HAD NO SAND PITS, BUT WE'RE DIGGING 21 PITS, 1,600 ACRES.
>> THE BEST OF MY KNOWLEDGE, THE ONE AT BRIDGETOWN, PROBABLY SOMETIME IN THE NEXT 4-5 YEARS, WILL RUN OUT OF THE PROPERTY THAT THEY CAN DIG.
[02:15:02]
>> THEY'RE GETTING READY TO CLOSE THAT ONE.
>> WHY I SAT ON BZA, THEY CAN COME BEFORE US TO GET THE LAST LITTLE BIT OF THEIR EXPANSION, BUT AS I SIT HERE, [INAUDIBLE] TESTIFIED THAT HE WOULD NOT START DIGGING ON THAT PIECE OF PROPERTY UNTIL HE WAS ABOUT TO FINISH THERE, AND I CALLED BS.
>> HE'S ALREADY STARTED PUTTING 10%.
HE'S GOING TO START DIGGING WITHIN THE NEXT FIVE YEARS.
>> HE SAID IN YOUR MEETING THAT THERE IS SOME SAND THERE THAT YOU CAN'T FIND ANYWHERE ELSE, AND IT'S RIGHT THERE.
HE'S GOING TO DIG IT UP. I FORGET WHAT IT WAS.
THAT'S WHAT EVERYBODY'S IN SEARCH OF.
>> BECAUSE HE SAID YOU CAN'T FIND IT ANYWHERE, AND HERE IT IS.
>> I LOVED WAS YOU AIN'T GOING TO WORRY ABOUT NO TRAFFIC.
IT'S GOING TO PENNSYLVANIA, NEW JERSEY, ACROSS THE BRIDGE OR DELAWARE, AND I'M LIKE, WHAT'S THE BENEFIT TO CAROLINE COUNTY?
>> LIKE YOU SAID, YOU SAID THERE'S A BOOM HERE.
WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO EMPLOY, FIVE PEOPLE? [INAUDIBLE].
>> BECAUSE THOSE TRUCKS THAT ARE HOME FOR HIM ARE HOME FOR HIM ALREADY.
>> AS A COMMISSIONER, I'VE HAD A CALL FROM A PERSON WHO LEASED THEIR LAND, AND THEY'RE DIGGING IT, AND THEY SAID, WHY DID MY TAXES GO UP? I SAID, BECAUSE YOU'VE ENTERED INTO A LEASE AGREEMENT WITH A COMPANY TO MINE YOUR PROPERTY, AND IF YOU NO LONGER HAVE A $500 ASSESSMENT, YOU'RE PAYING 98 CENTS ON ABOUT $9,000 AN ACRE AS OPPOSED TO 98 CENTS ON $500 AN ACRE, THAT'S WHY.
>> SURE, THE LEASE E DIDN'T TELL THEM THAT THEIR TAXES WERE GOING TO GO UP.
>> IT WAS PROBABLY IN THE FINE PRINT OF 74 PAGES.
YOUR QUESTION ABOUT RIVERS AND CREEKS, A RIVER IS A LARGE NATURAL STREAM OF WATER FLOWING IN A CHANNEL, TYPICALLY FLOWING INTO A SEA, LAKE, OR ANOTHER RIVER.
A CREEK, ON THE OTHER HAND, IS A SMALLER STREAM THAT OFTEN FLOWS INTO A RIVER.
THERE'S NO STRICT SIZE DISTINCTION, BUT GENERALLY, RIVERS ARE SIGNIFICANTLY LARGER THAN CREEKS.
THE RIVERS ARE TYPICALLY LARGER AND WIDER, AND RIVERS OFTEN FLOW INTO LARGER BODIES, WHILE CREEKS MAY FLOW INTO THE RIVER.
>> I THINK JUST A CLASSIFICATION PROBABLY CHANGED BECAUSE TUCKAHOE HAS ALWAYS BEEN MUCH SMALLER THAN THE CHOPTANK.
>> OR MAYBE SOMEBODY IN THEIR SPARE TIME WENT, THIS REALLY SHOULD HAVE NEVER BEEN A RIVER.
>> SOMEONE WITH NOTHING ELSE TO GO
>> EXACTLY. I WANT TO MEET A PERSON LIKE THAT.
>> IT'S REALLY A CREEK. EVERYBODY KNOWS IT.
>> DO WE HAVE ANYTHING ELSE FOR THIS ONE, MS. ELIZABETH? I DON'T THINK SO. IF THERE'S NOTHING ELSE THAT YOU WANT TO ADD AS FAR AS A GOAL OR IMPLEMENTATION, I THINK A LOT OF WHAT IS IN THIS CHAPTER THAT'S BEEN PUT IN OTHER CHAPTERS BECAUSE IT FIT BETTER THERE THAN HERE, THAT'S WHEN YOU'RE REALLY GOING TO BE DIGGING YOUR TEETH IN, I THINK.
>> A LOT OF THOSE MAPS AND EVERYTHING ARE [INAUDIBLE].
>> THEY'RE NOT SO SIGNIFICANT IN THIS ONE.
>> YES. THAT'S ALL I HAVE FOR THIS, IF YOU WANT TO, I GUESS, TAKE ACTION ON.
WE'LL DO OUR PART AND COME BACK TO YOU AND ALL THAT GOOD STUFF.
I'LL GET TO THE SECOND PART OF MY MEMO, AND I'LL BE QUICK ABOUT IT, I PROMISE.
>> DO YOU HAVE TO TAKE ACTION ON THIS OR ANYTHING?
>> DO WE HAVE TO DO ANYTHING, LIKE TAKE A VOTE?
>> I DON'T THINK IT REQUIRES A VOTE.
YOU'VE TOLD US WHAT YOU'D WANT US TO MAKE THE EDITS TO THE MINERAL RESOURCE.
WE'LL COME BACK TO YOU WITH THOSE INCORPORATED AND SOME ANSWERS FROM MDE IN JUNE, AND THEN APPROVE IT AS A FINAL DRAFT.
>> SOMETIMES THAT EVEN HAPPENS WITH THE COMMISSIONERS.
YOU JUST GET A SENSE OF THE DIRECTION THEY WANT TO PROCEED IN.
YOU DON'T GO THROUGH A FORMAL MOTION IN EVERY SINGLE CASE.
>> WE'RE SENSING YOUR DIRECTION.
>> WE SENSE IT AND WE WROTE IT DOWN.
REAL QUICK, WE HAD THE PUBLIC OUTREACH MEETING ON APRIL 30TH, AND JEFF ATTENDED.
APPROXIMATELY 17 AND 19 INDIVIDUALS CAME TO THAT.
[02:20:02]
SOME PEOPLE LEFT EARLY.I THOUGHT IT WAS A GOOD TURNOUT.
WE INCLUDED A DISCUSSION ABOUT THE STATE REQUIREMENTS, WHICH REALLY BEAR INTO PLACE WHEN YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT HOUSING, THE HEALTH DEPARTMENT, AND THE SEPTIC REQUIREMENTS.
IF YOU DON'T HAVE PUBLIC WATER AND PUBLIC SEWER, THEN YOU'RE ON INDIVIDUAL WELL AND INDIVIDUAL SEPTIC, AND THAT REALLY HAMPERS THE HOUSING THAT CAN HAPPEN.
EVEN WITH ALL OF THIS, THE LEGISLATION THAT'S COME OUT AND THE NEED FOR IT, THERE ARE A LOT OF OTHER THINGS THAT COME INTO PLAY.
WE HAD A REALLY GOOD QUESTION AND ANSWER SESSION, AND EVEN WHEN IT ENDED, THERE WERE A FEW PEOPLE THAT STAYED PROBABLY FOR ANOTHER HOUR, I BELIEVE, AND TALK.
IT WAS ENCOURAGING TO GET THAT PUBLIC INPUT.
PEOPLE TOOK THE FLYERS, THEY TOOK THE CARDS.
I'VE HAD FOUR OR FIVE EMAILS SINCE THEN WITH QUESTIONS.
>> BOTH OF THE PEOPLE WHO ARE HERE TONIGHT WERE AT THAT PUBLIC MEETING.
MY NEXT QUESTION IS, SHOULD WE HAVE ANOTHER CITIZEN OUTREACH MEETING? IF THE CONSENSUS IS YES, THEN DISCUSS THE TIME FRAME AND LOCATION.
DO YOU ALL FEEL WE SHOULD DO ANOTHER ONE?
>> I DON'T THINK IT WOULD HURT, BUT I DON'T THINK YOU'D DO IT HERE.
>> I WOULD SAY WE DO IT IN SEPTEMBER OR OCTOBER.
>> I WAS GOING TO SAY, AFTER THESE, WE HAVE SOME EVENTS.
YOU'RE GOING TO BE AT SUMMER FEST.
>> YES, I'M GOING TO BE IN A LOT OF DIFFERENT EVENTS, HANDING OUT INFORMATION AS WELL.
SUMMER TIME, THE KIDS ARE FALLING OUT OF SCHOOL, PEOPLE HAVE VACATIONS, THEY HAVE OTHER THINGS THEY WANT TO DO.
THEN THEY'RE GETTING KIDS OFF TO COLLEGE, GETTING READY FOR SCHOOL.
I WAS THINKING THE END OF SEPTEMBER, OCTOBER, SOMETHING IN THAT AREA.
WHEN Y'ALL SAY NORTH, I HAVE A GREAT SENSE OF DIRECTION IF I'M ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE BRIDGE.
>> DO YOU THINK GREENSBORO, OR DO YOU THINK PRESTON FOR A DIFFERENT LOCATION?
WE'VE GOT A LOT OF COUNTY DOWN THERE, A LOT OF BIG FARMS DOWN THERE, LAND, AND SOME PEOPLE.
THERE'S A LOT OF PEOPLE THAT DON'T WANDER THIS FAR NORTH.
>> PRESTON, OR FEDERALSBURG? I CAN GET THE PRESTON TOWN HALL IN A HEARTBEAT.
>> PRESTON IS USUALLY WHERE INVESTORS GO.
THEY HAVE A GOOD TURNOUT THERE.
>> WE WERE USED BUDGET HEARINGS DOWN THERE UNTIL WE GOT THE NEW CAMERA SYSTEM, AND WE JUST DO IT HERE BECAUSE IT CAN BE RECORDED.
>> I WILL LOOK AT WHEN YOUR MEETINGS ARE AND OTHER MEETINGS, AND DIFFERENT THINGS LIKE THAT, AND THROW OUT A COUPLE OF DATES AT THE NEXT MEETING.
>> WE DO HAVE TO CHECK IF THEY CAN BE LIVE.
>> WHAT ARE THE LIMITATIONS ON WHAT THEY'RE GOING TO DISCUSS? THE REASON WHY I ASK THAT QUESTION IS, I THINK A WEEK AGO, THEY HAD SOME DISCUSSION ON THIS RENOVATION OF LOCKERMAN HIGH SCHOOL AND LOCKERMAN MIDDLE SCHOOL.
I'VE GOT A LOT OF CALLS FROM DIFFERENT ORGANIZATIONS, ESPECIALLY WITH AFRICAN AMERICANS.
I'LL EXPLAIN WHY THEY'RE SO CONCERNED, A LOT IS BECAUSE WHEN SEGREGATION WAS HERE, I WAS PART OF SEGREGATION.
WHEN LOCKERMAN HIGH SCHOOL WAS DISMANTLED UNDER THAT SEGREGATION, AND THERE WAS INTEGRATION, THE SCHOOL'S NAME WAS TAKEN AWAY AND ERASED.
AT THAT PARTICULAR TIME, MY FATHER AND A LOT OF WHO WERE EDUCATORS IN THIS COUNTY, AND A LOT OF RELATIVES WHO TAUGHT HERE, LOBBIED IN ANNAPOLIS TO THE BOARD OF EDUCATION, TO THE STATE BOARD, TO REINSTATE THAT NAME, AND THEY WON THROUGH A LOT OF THE BACKING OF CAROLINE COUNTY ALSO, WHO WAS ALSO STANDING BEHIND THAT, TO REINSTATE THAT.
>> IT WAS RIVERVIEW, [OVERLAPPING] AND THEY GOT IT CHANGED BACK.
A YEAR BEFORE I WENT THERE, IT GOT CHANGED BACK TO LOCKERMAN.
DOES IT SOUND ABOUT '92 MAYBE?
>> IT WAS A GOOD LITTLE TIME BEFORE THAT.
>> [OVERLAPPING] I GRADUATED IN 2000, SO I WOULD HAVE WENT TO THE LOCKERMAN.
[02:25:02]
I'VE GOT TO DO IT BACKWARDS.>> THE REASON WHY, IT TOOK THE NAME OF THE MAN WHO DONATED THE LAND, HE WAS AFRICAN AMERICAN, TO BUILD THAT HIGH SCHOOL.
>> ABOUT '93 IS WHEN IT WAS CHANGED.
>> BUT IT HAD BEEN TAKEN AWAY FOR ALMOST 20 YEARS, SO YOU'RE RIGHT, AND I WAS THE LAST CLASS OF LOCKERMAN.
THEN WHEN THE FOLLOWING YEAR IT WAS CHANGED TO RIVERVIEW, WHICH AT THAT PARTICULAR TIME, THE MIDDLE SCHOOL WAS THREE GRADES, IT WAS SEVENTH, EIGHTH, AND NINTH, AND THEN YOU WENT TO HIGH SCHOOL. [OVERLAPPING]
>> HIGH SCHOOL. IT WAS THE SAME WHEN I WENT THERE.
>> WHAT I'M JUST SAYING IS, I THINK THERE'S ANOTHER MEETING THAT'S COMING UP IN JUNE.
SOME OF THE PEOPLE, ESPECIALLY THE OLDER ONES, I'M TALKING ABOUT THE ONES IN THE '70S AND '80S ARE SAYING THEY'RE GOING TO CHANGE THE SCHOOL AGAIN, AND THESE ARE CONCERNS.
I JUST WANTED TO THROW IT OUT.
>> WE'VE HEARD ABOUT IT FROM VERY EARLY ON BECAUSE WE MENTIONED THE SCHOOL PROJECT PROBABLY TWO YEARS AGO, AND THE LOCKERMAN ASSOCIATION REACHED OUT TO US IMMEDIATELY, AND WE ASSURED THEM.
NOW, I UNDERSTAND THE CONCERN, BUT WE ASSURED THEM, WHAT WE ARE THINKING, WHAT I'M HOPING IS, WE CAN GET A YMCA OR WE CAN GET SOMEBODY IN THERE TO RENOVATE AND TAKE THE BUILDING OVER AND USE IT, TOO.
ANOTHER OPTION IS FOR IT TO BE COUNTY OFFICES BECAUSE OUR PUBLIC WORKS DEPARTMENT IS RIGHT THERE, SO WE CAN DO SOMETHING IF THE COUNTY NEEDS SPACE.
WE DEFINITELY DON'T NEED THAT MUCH SPACE.
BUT OUR GOAL, OR OUR INTENT, IS TO PRESERVE THE BUILDING, AND I THINK THAT'S WHAT THE LOCKERMAN ASSOCIATION, AT LEAST THE HISTORICAL PART OF IT.
WE HAVEN'T DRILLED INTO HOW MUCH OF IT IS ACTUALLY OF HISTORICAL IMPORTANCE, IF IT'S THE ENTIRE THING, I KNOW THERE WAS ADDITIONS AND THINGS.
>> THEY'VE HAD MANY ADDITIONS.
RIGHT NOW, TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION, ROGER, THEY'RE INVESTIGATING THREE DIFFERENT SCENARIOS.
ONE IS RENOVATION OR ADDITION TO THE EXISTING SCHOOL, ONE IS THE DOUBLE HILL SITE, WHICH I THINK WE'RE JUST GOING THROUGH THE MOTIONS WITH THAT ONE, I THINK IT'S OFF THE TABLE, AND THE OTHER IS THE BUILDING NEXT TO NORTH CAROLINE HIGH OUT THERE.
THOSE ARE THE THREE OPTIONS THAT ARE BEING INVESTIGATED RIGHT NOW.
>> NOW, ONE THING THEY SAID, ROGER, I WAS AT THAT MEETING, WHEN THEY BUILD THE NEW SCHOOL, TAKE THE NAME LOCKERMAN, AND I SAID THAT THE REASON THAT NAME IS THERE IS THAT BUILDING.
>> NO, IT'S ACTUALLY THE LOCATION TO TAKE THE NAME SOMEWHERE ELSE.
[OVERLAPPING] THEY JUST DIDN'T WANT IT TO DISAPPEAR LIKE THE LAST TIME, THAT THERE WAS NO RECOGNITION.
BECAUSE EVEN ME, I HAVE A LITTLE PROBLEM WITH ONE OF THE SCHOOLS, THE SYSTEM OF CAROLINE COUNTY, BECAUSE THERE WAS AN ELEMENTARY SCHOOL IN RIDGLEY THAT WAS CALLED THE COLORED SCHOOL.
THE ONLY THING THAT'S IN THE GROUND IS A TOMBSTONE THAT LOOKED LIKE IT WAS A TOMBSTONE FROM ON THE SITE, THAT'S IT.
THERE'S A TOMBSTONE THERE THAT LOOKED LIKE ANY OTHER CEMETERY OF A BUILDING THAT I WAS EDUCATED.
I STILL HAVE A BAD TASTE IN MY MOUTH ABOUT THAT NOT BEING SOMETHING OF A MARKER.
THE LAND IS THERE, AND ALL I SEE IS A TOMBSTONE, LIKE YOU WOULD JUST SAY THIS USED TO BE THE SITE.
>> YEAH. IT EDUCATED SO MANY AFRICAN AMERICANS FOR WELL OVER PROBABLY 60 YEARS, AND IT WAS REDUCED.
IT WAS WOODEN. WE HAD FIVE GRADES IN THERE, AND THE FIRST GRADE TEACHER IS THE REASON WHY THEY HAVE THAT MS. HENRY DAY.
>> SHE WAS THE ONE WHO TAUGHT FOR 25-30 YEARS IN THAT ONE WOODEN BUILDING, AND IT WAS REDUCED TO A TOMBSTONE.
>> RIGHT BEHIND TRINITY CHURCH.
HENRY ROAD IS A LITTLE CUT OFF, AND AS SOON AS YOU COME TO THE STOP SIGN, YOU'LL SEE IT.
IT'S SET RIGHT OUT IN THE LITTLE GRASS, AND ALL YOU SEE IS A STONE.
>> THAT SHOULD BE ON THE HISTORICAL LIST.
A LOT OF AFRICAN AMERICAN PEOPLE ARE VERY SAD ABOUT THAT, ESPECIALLY OLD ONES WHO WENT THERE.
>> THE MORNING GREENSBORO STILL STANDS.
THAT SCHOOL IN GREENSBORO STILL STANDS; IT'S A HOUSE.
BUT THE BATHROOM IS THERE, THE MALE-FEMALE HOUSING, THEY'RE STILL THERE.
THEY WERE MOVED TO MR. ROY'S PROPERTY, RIGHT BEHIND HIS HOUSE.
THEY WERE HIS BECAUSE THAT'S WHERE I GOT MY LESSONS FROM, MR. ROY.
[02:30:02]
THEY'RE FROM THE AFRICAN AMERICAN SCHOOL THAT IS RIGHT THERE.WE JUST MOVED THEM BACK TO [INAUDIBLE]. THERE'S HISTORY RIGHT THERE.
>> WE'LL TOUCH BASE WITH YOU GUYS.
>> WELL, I JUST WANTED TO SEE WHETHER THOSE TOPICS ARE, WHEN WE OPEN IT UP LIKE THAT TO DIFFERENT FORUMS. [OVERLAPPING]
>> THERE'S ANOTHER ONE IN JUNE FOR THE SCHOOL. DID YOU KNOW ABOUT IT?
I'M IN CONTACT WITH MS. WAYMAN.
[OVERLAPPING] I DON'T KNOW IF COMMUNITY FACILITIES HOUSE THE SCHOOL.
>> I'M REALLY GLAD THAT MICHELLE IS THERE AS PRESIDENT OF THE BOARD RIGHT NOW TO WORK THROUGH THIS.
I THINK EVERYBODY TRUSTS HER, AND SHE KNOWS THE SENSITIVE NATURE OF THIS, AND SHE ALSO KNOWS WHAT THE SCHOOL SYSTEM NEEDS.
>> SHE WAS MY CLASSMATE, SO WE GRADUATED TOGETHER.
[LAUGHTER] WE TALK, AND WE'RE A SMALL AFRICAN AMERICAN COMMUNITY, BUT WE'RE ALMOST LIKE WE'RE FAMILY BECAUSE WE KNOW EVERYBODY.
SOMETIMES WE HAVE OTHER PERSONAL DISCUSSIONS WHICH SHOULD START OUT LIKE THAT.
>> BUT THAT'S COOL, I THINK WE'VE OUTGROWN THE SIGNS.
>> ROGER, IN THE COMMUNITY FACILITIES CHAPTER, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE SCHOOLS, AND YOU CAN PUT SOMETHING IN THERE THAT CAN [INAUDIBLE].
>> WELL, THAT'S IT FOR THIS PART ON YOUR AGENDA. [OVERLAPPING]
>> HAVE YOU TAKEN UP ENOUGH OF OUR TIME?
>> NO. BUT YOUR AGENDA, YOU HAVE SOMETHING ELSE. IT'S NOT ME.
[BZA Update]
>> WHO'S DOING THE BZA UPDATE?
THE BOARDS OF ZONING APPEALS LAST MONTH HEARD THREE CASES.
WE HAD A CASE OF THE GREER REQUESTED VARIANCE NUMBER 25007 FOR AN EXISTING BARN TO BE USED AS A COMMERCIAL STABLE, THAT DID NOT MEET THE 200-FOOT COMMERCIAL STABLE SETBACK, AND THE BOARD UNANIMOUSLY APPROVED THE VARIANCE.
THEN WE HAD ANOTHER CASE FOR THOMAS JUNIOR REQUESTED A SPECIAL USE EXCEPTION FOR A FARM MOBILE HOME TO BE OCCUPIED BY A PERSON EMPLOYED ON THE FARM WHO DID NOT MEET THE MINIMUM INCOME REQUIREMENTS FROM THE FARM EMPLOYMENT, AND THAT SPECIAL USE EXCEPTION AND VARIANCE WAS APPROVED AS WELL.
THE LAST CASE WAS THE PRESTON COMMUNITY ENERGY INITIATIVE, REQUESTED SPECIAL USE EXCEPTION NUMBER 2400434, A NEW 2.0 MEGAWATT COMMERCIAL COMMUNITY SOLAR ENERGY FACILITY.
ONE NEIGHBOR OPPOSED THE LOCATIONS OF THE PANEL, AND THE BOARD APPROVED THE SPECIAL USE EXCEPTION WITH A VOTE OF 2:1.
>> IS THERE ANY ARGUMENT ABOUT THAT SOLAR PANEL?
>> ARE WE SEEING THE PRESTON ONE?
I ASKED MATT ABOUT IT THIS AFTERNOON.
YOU KNOW WHERE THE OLD CROWN CORK & SEAL PROPERTY IS? IT'S RIGHT IN BETWEEN THE TOWN BOUNDARY AND CROWN CORK & SEAL.
IT'S AN 83-ACRE PARCEL, AND THEY'RE GOING TO USE ABOUT 11 ACRES FOR SOLAR.
>> IS IT A COMMUNITY PROPERTY? BECAUSE IT'S TWO MEGAWATTS.
>> YES. IN THEIR APPLICATION, IT ACTUALLY SAYS THAT IT COULD BE AVAILABLE TO LOCAL RESIDENTS AND LOW-INCOME RESIDENTS.
>> BUT THAT STILL FALLS UNDER OUR 2,000 ACRES, RIGHT?
>> YEAH, WE'RE STILL UNDER IT.
>> YES, IT WILL. YOU ALL WILL SEE IT.
HE'S DOUBTFUL IT'S GOING TO MAKE IT UNDER JUNE BECAUSE HE'S SNOWED UNDER IT, BUT ABSOLUTELY, IF NOT JUNE, THEN JULY.
>> ANYTHING YOU CAN TELL US? ANYTHING SPECIAL ON THEM OR ANYTHING?
>> I'M NOT SURE WHAT I'M ALLOWED TO SAY AND WHAT I'M NOT ALLOWED TO SAY.
>> WELL, WHATEVER WAS SAID IN A PUBLIC MEETING.
>> THE ONE NEIGHBOR THAT WAS IN DISPUTE OF IT WAS BASICALLY ASKING THEM TO PUT IT GOING BACK TO PRIME FARMLANDS.
WHERE THEY'RE PUTTING IT IS GOOD TILLABLE FARMLAND, BUT THERE'S OTHER ACREAGE ON THAT PROPERTY THAT'S NOT AS GOOD TILLABLE ACREAGE, AND HE WAS ASKING THEM TO CONSIDER MAKING THE MOVE TO GO TO THAT POINT.
HE REALLY WASN'T OPPOSED TO THE SOLAR PROPERTY, HE WAS JUST OPPOSED TO THE LOCATION OF THE PROJECT ON THAT PIECE OF PROPERTY.
I HAD A NEW PIECE OF LIGHT ON ONE OF MY OTHER BZA MEMBERS TODAY.
[02:35:05]
HE TALKED TO SOMEBODY THAT WAS ON ONE OF THESE PROJECTS THAT'S AVAILABLE TO THE PUBLIC.THIS PARTICULAR LADY WAS LOW-INCOME, SINGLE MOTHER.
SINCE SHE SIGNED UP FOR IT, SHE'S NOT HAVING AN ELECTRIC BILL.
IT'S ALL BEEN TAKEN CARE OF BY THE SOLAR.
>> I WAS LIKE, WELL, HEY, IT'S NICE TO HEAR SOMETHING POSITIVE ABOUT SOME OF THIS BECAUSE A LOT OF PEOPLE WERE UNDER THE IMPRESSION THAT YEAH, IT'S OUT THERE, BUT IT'S NOT FOR PUBLIC USE.
THEY MADE AN ACKNOWLEDGMENT THAT THERE'S SOLAR HERE, YOU CAN YOU CAN APPLY FOR HELP THAT WILL COME OFF OF THAT SOLAR.
[Department Update]
>> THE BIG THING RIGHT NOW IS WE'RE IN THE PROCESS OF INTERVIEWING FOR THE GIS PLANNER POSITION, MEGAN ZOE POSITION.
SHE'S ACTUALLY HELPING US LOOK THROUGH.
WE HAVE ABOUT 40, ALMOST 50 APPLICATIONS.
>> HALF OF THEM THOUGHT IT WAS A REMOTE POSITION, SO THEY DROPPED OUT.
>> COMMISSIONERS HERE DON'T REALLY GO FOR THAT REMOTE TELEWORKING STUFF.
>> WE DO HAVE REALLY IMPRESSIVE, WAY OVERQUALIFIED PEOPLE; PEOPLE BEING LET GO BY THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, SO WE HAVE SOME UNBELIEVABLE AND THEN NORMAL APPLICANTS, BUT A PRETTY GOOD POOL.
OUR LAST DAY OF INTERVIEWS, WE'VE GOT THREE OR FOUR TOMORROW, AND THEN WE HAVE SOME NEXT THURSDAY, I BELIEVE.
WE'LL MAKE OUR DECISION BY THE END OF NEXT WEEK.
HOPEFULLY, GET THEM IN HERE WITHIN THE MONTH.
>> DID MATT GET SOME HELP ON REVIEWER?
>> WELL, DIDN'T WE HAVE A POSITION OPEN TO DO THE MINOR REVIEWS?
>> YEAH, WE DID. OUR DEVELOPMENT REVIEW, YES, THAT'S TARA.
HE'S STILL SUPER BUSY, BUT BETTER THAN HE WAS?
>> THE SOLAR AND SURFACE MINING STUFF, I'M SURE, IT TAKES A LOT OF TIME.
>> I MAKE A MOTION TO ADJOURN.
[Meeting Adjourned]
[LAUGHTER]>> WE'VE GOT A MOTION TO ADJOURN. SECOND?
>> THAT'S A MOTION AND A SECOND. ALL IN FAVOR?
>> YOU'RE CATCHING ON, TWO YEARS IN.
* This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.