[00:04:02]
[Call to Order: Invocation, Pastor Dan Gedman, Global Methodist Church of Denton; Pledge of Allegiance; Agenda Review]
WELCOME TO THIS JULY 22ND, 2025, CAROLINE COUNTY COMMISSIONER MEETING, WHICH IS NOW IN ORDER.UNFORTUNATELY, I DO NOT SEE PASTOR GEDMAN HERE THIS MORNING, SO WE WILL JUST RISE AND DO THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE.
>> DURING THE JULY 15TH MEETING,
[President’s Closed Session Report Out]
THE COMMISSIONERS CONVENED IN CLOSED SESSION UNDER GENERAL PROVISION, ARTICLE 3-305(B) 7, 8, AND 9 TO DISCUSS MATTERS RELATED TO THE POTENTIAL SALE OF DAY SPRING TOWN HOMES.PRESENT AT THE MEETING WAS MYSELF,
[00:05:03]
VICE PRESIDENT PORTER, COMMISSIONER BARTZ, COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR KATHLEEN FREEMAN, DANIEL FOX, DEPUTY ADMINISTRATOR STEWART BARROLL, COUNTY ATTORNEY, AND PAB ADMINISTRATOR KIM RAEDER.THEN MOVING ON TO OUR FIRST AGENDA ITEM,
[MES Bond Resolution and Expansion Project Discussion - Timothy Ford, Managing Director, Environmental Operations, Maryland Environmental Service and Staff]
WHICH IS MES REGARDING THE BOND RESOLUTION AND AN EXPANSION PROJECT DISCUSSION.I BELIEVE MR. FORD, MANAGING DIRECTOR, IS HERE.
IF YOU GUYS WANT TO COME FORWARD? CHUCK AND GARY, GOOD TO SEE YOU GUYS.
THANK YOU GUYS FOR COMING OVER.
>> GOT TO HAVE MY BRAIN CHAPS WITH ME. [LAUGHTER] [INAUDIBLE].
>> I JUST HAD A FEW QUESTIONS REGARDING THE DOLLAR FIGURE FOR THE BOND, IF YOU GUYS COULD JUST EXPLAIN WHERE YOU'RE COMING UP WITH THE 28 MILLION, AND MAYBE TALK ABOUT HOW THAT TIMES OUT, THE PLAN TO MAKE SURE THAT THE DEBT IS PAID BY THE TIME WE CLOSE THE LANDFILL HERE. IF YOU DON'T MIND.
>> THANK YOU, COMMISSIONER BREEDING, FOR ASKING US HERE.
WE APPRECIATE THE OPPORTUNITY BECAUSE, QUITE FRANKLY, YOU'RE UNDERWRITING THIS BOND.
IT'S AN OBLIGATION YOU HAVE TO ASK THESE QUESTIONS, AND WE APPRECIATE YOU ASKING THEM.
[INAUDIBLE] DON'T ALWAYS GET THAT OPPORTUNITY. THANK YOU FOR THAT.
THE TOTAL DOLLAR AMOUNT WE'VE ASKED ON THIS BOND RESOLUTION IS UP TO $28 MILLION.
THAT NUMBER WAS ARRIVED AT THROUGH ENGINEERS [INAUDIBLE] COST OF CONSTRUCTION.
IT'S A MULTIPLE NUMBER OF PROJECTS THROUGH THE REMAINING LIFE OF THE LANDFILL TO CONSTRUCT OUT THE REMAINING INFRASTRUCTURE THAT'S NEEDED TO FINISH OUT [INAUDIBLE].
THAT INCLUDES TWO CELL CONSTRUCTION PROJECTS, CELLS 1 AND 5.
IT INCLUDES A TANK, ANOTHER [INAUDIBLE] TANK, WHICH IS ABOUT $1.8 MILLION.
IT INCLUDES A LANDFILL GAS PROJECT.
WE'RE STILL VERY MUCH NEGOTIATING THAT PROJECT WITH CHESAPEAKE UTILITIES, BUT WE STILL HAVE TO ACCOUNT FOR A COST IF WE CAN'T NEGOTIATE SOMETHING WITH THEM.
IT INCLUDE THE ROAD RESURFACING FOR HOLLY AND RIVER ROAD, IT INCLUDES ENGINEERING COSTS, CONSTRUCTION, PROJECT MANAGEMENT COSTS, ALL THE THINGS [INAUDIBLE] [NOISE] CAPITALIZE.
IT ALSO INCLUDES ABOUT $3 MILLION IN CAPITALIZED INTEREST.
WE STILL HAVE TO WORK THROUGH GASB TO SEE IF WE'RE EVEN ALLOWED TO USE THAT MONEY.
THE IDEA WAS THAT WE USE SOME OF THAT CAPITALIZED INTEREST IN THAT INTERIM PERIOD BETWEEN NOW, WHILE WE STILL HAVE EXISTING BOND OBLIGATION, AND WHEN WE RETIRE THOSE BONDS IN 2031, SO THERE'S AN OVERLAP THERE.
SOME OF THE THINKING IS WE COULD USE CAPITALIZED INTEREST TO MAKE THOSE PAYMENTS.
I CAN GO THROUGH INDIVIDUAL COST ESTIMATES IF YOU NEED HOW WE CAME UP WITH A 25 MILLION PLUS THE THREE MILLION IN CAPITALIZED INTEREST.
>> I DON'T NEED A SPECIFIC BREAKDOWN.
IS THERE A EXISTING DEBT THAT IS BEING ROLLED INTO THIS AS WELL, A REFINANCED?
>> NO, WE REFINANCED THAT ALREADY TWO YEARS AGO. IS IT TWO YEARS?
>> I THINK IT WAS AROUND 2020 OR 2021.
>> THIS IS ALL NEW DEBT. AGAIN, IT ENCOMPASSES CELL 1, WHICH IS WHAT, 05, 7 YEARS OUT? WE'RE DOING CELL 5 NOW.
SOME OF THESE ESTIMATES HAVE BEEN BORNE OUT.
THIS WORK IS ALL COMPETITIVELY BID WITH STATE AGENCY, SO WE'RE BOUND BY PROCUREMENT RULES THAT REQUIRE COMPETITIVE BIDDING FOR THIS WOULD BE AN IFB FOR CONSTRUCTION WORK.
THE ENGINEERING WORK IS A COMPETITIVE BID, BUT IT'S A, WHAT'S THE WORD I'M LOOKING FOR?
>> SHORT LIST OF ENGINEERING CONTRACTS.
[OVERLAPPING] QUALIFICATIONS-BASED SELECTION THAT'S REQUIRED BY LAW TO PICK ENGINEERING FIRMS BASED ON QUALIFICATION AND NOT NECESSARILY PRICE. [OVERLAPPING]
>> THE ENTIRE FACILITY IS DESIGNED, IT'S JUST BROKEN UP INTO CELLS.
WHEN YOU'RE SAYING ENGINEERING, ARE THEY ACTUALLY DOING ANY REDESIGN OR NEW ENGINEERING, OR IS IT JUST?
>> EACH CELL IS DESIGNED SEPARATELY.
>> RIGHT, THEY'RE NOT ALL EQUAL.
THEY EACH HAVE THEIR OWN CHALLENGES.
CELL 5, WHICH IS THE LAST CELL, ALSO THE LARGEST CELL HAS CONSIDERABLE AMOUNT OF [INAUDIBLE],
[00:10:01]
SO IT IS MORE EXPENSIVE ON A [INAUDIBLE] BASIS THAN THIS CURRENT CELL THAT WE'RE WORKING ON, SO CELL 5.THE BID JUST CAME IN FOR CELL 5, AND IT WITHIN REASON WITH THE ENGINEER'S ESTIMATE.
WE ESTIMATED ALMOST $2 MILLION IN TANK COST, WHAT WERE THE TOTALS [INAUDIBLE]?
>> THE ENGINEER'S ESTIMATE FOR CELL 5 WAS NEARLY SEVEN MILLION WITH THE TANK, AND THE LOW BIDDER CAME IN AT ABOUT 6 AND 1/2 MILLION?
>> IT'S WITHIN REASON [INAUDIBLE] THE ESTIMATES? THE ROAD CONSTRUCTION CAME IN ABOUT ON PAR WITH WHAT WE ESTIMATED, IT WAS A HALF A MILLION OR SO.
THAT'S ALREADY BEEN DONE. THAT WORK'S BEEN DONE.
>> THAT LOOKS GOOD. I THINK WE'VE ALL BEEN OUT THERE AND SEEN IT, SO DID A GOOD JOB ON THAT.
IN THIS BOND, IS THERE MONEY TO DO ANOTHER RESURFACE DOWN THE ROAD OR NO? HAS THAT OBLIGATION BEEN FULFILLED NOW?
>> WE WOULD TAKE THAT OUT OF OPERATING COSTS DOWN THE ROAD.
I DON'T THINK WE HAVE TO NECESSARILY CATALYZE THAT.
WE DID BECAUSE IT MADE SENSE TO FIT WITH THIS PROJECT.
NOW, IF THERE'S EXCESS FUNDS, LET'S SAY WE GET TO THE POINT WHERE WE MAKE BECAUSE WE'RE GOING FOR SALE ON THESE BONDS IN SEPTEMBER, IT'S BASED ON EXISTING KNOWN COST AND ANY [NOISE] ESTIMATED COSTS.
IF THERE ARE EXCESS FUNDS, WE CAN'T USE THAT MONEY, IT'S RESTRICTED.
THOSE BOND PROCEEDS WOULD EITHER BE PLACED IN RESERVE AND USED FOR DEBT, OR IT COULD BE USED FOR OTHER PROJECTS RELATED TO THE LANDFILL.
>> [INAUDIBLE] ADDITIONAL MONIES. WE ALSO ARE REQUIRED BY AN INDENTURE TO MAINTAIN A RESERVE.
IF YOU'RE LOOKING AT RISK TO THE COUNTIES, WE'RE REQUIRED TO HAVE ONE-SIXTH OF OUR ANNUAL BUDGET HELD AN OPERATING RESERVE BASED ON THE TERMS OF OUR INDENTURE.
THE NES ACCOUNT IS A RESTRICTED ACCOUNT, [INAUDIBLE] ACCOUNT, WE DON'T HAVE ACCESS TO IT FROM NES, IT'S HELD IN RESERVE.
THAT CURRENTLY SITS AT ABOUT $18 MILLION.
THAT INCLUDES, OF COURSE, A CLOSURE ESTIMATE, A CLOSURE RESERVE.
BUT THOSE AREN'T RESTRICTED FUNDS, SO IN AN EMERGENCY, YOU HAVE ACCESS TO THOSE AS WELL.
>> HOW MUCH DEBT DO WE HAVE RIGHT NOW? THIS IS ADDING POTENTIALLY 28 MILLION.
WHERE ARE WE SITTING RIGHT NOW? DO YOU KNOW THAT NUMBER?
>> TOTAL DEBT FOR THE LANDFILL TO DATE IS ABOUT THE SAME AMOUNT OF MONEY.
IT'S ABOUT 25 MILLION ROUGHLY SPEAKING.
WHAT DO WE HAVE LEFT REMAINING?
>> THE EXISTING DEBT SERVICE IS ABOUT 15 MILLION.
>> THAT IS PAID OFF IN 2031, THIS WILL BE PAID OFF 2042, '43, SOMEWHERE IN THAT NEIGHBORHOOD, WHICH IS ABOUT WHEN WE ANTICIPATE THE LANDFILL BEING FULL, RIGHT? ALL THE DEBT SHOULD BE COVERED BY THE TIME THIS FACILITY CLOSES AND IT MOVES TO QUEEN ANNE'S AND KENT?
>> YES. UNLESS THERE'S SOME DISASTER AND WE FILL LANDFILL UP FASTER.
HURRICANE RUNS THROUGH OR SOMETHING.
>> THE CLOSURE AND CAP WILL HAVE SUFFICIENT FUNDING SET ASIDE TO COVER THAT AS WELL BY THAT PERIOD?
ONE OF THE THINGS TO YOU REMEMBER FROM OUR PRIOR DISCUSSIONS, WHEN WE WERE CONTRACTUALLY OBLIGATED TO CLOSE THE LANDFILL ON A DATE CERTAIN.
WE STILL HAVE REMAINING AIRSPACE.
GASB REQUIRE THAT YOU UNAMORTIZE THOSE COSTS OVER A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF AIRSPACE.
WE WERE TIME-RESTRICTED, SO WE HAD INCLUDED AN ADDITIONAL RESERVE TO COVER THE DIFFERENCE, AND WHAT WE WERE SHORT FOR [INAUDIBLE] IF WE HAD CLOSED THE REMAINING AIRSPACE.
VERY CAREFUL NOT TO SAY CLOSED EARLY BECAUSE [LAUGHTER] NEVER CLOSING IT EARLY, JUST SIMPLY MANAGING THE EXISTING LOAN RESERVE.
GASB REQUIRES THAT YOU TIME OUT YOUR CLOSURE COSTS BASED ON THE AIRSPACE YOU HAVE REMAINING.
YOU ADJUST THAT ANNUALLY BASED ON HOW MUCH AIRSPACE YOU CALCULATE, SO THAT YOU'RE ALWAYS GOING TO BE IN THAT TIME FRAME, [INAUDIBLE] CLOSING IT WITH ENOUGH MONEY TO BE ABLE TO CAP AND MONITOR IT.
[00:15:03]
>> THE GAS COLLECTION, SO I'M ASSUMING YOU'RE TRYING TO WORK A DEAL WHERE IT'S COLLECTED AND USED TO GENERATE POWER.
>> CHUCK IT AWAY, SO REFINE IT ON SITE AND THEN SELL IT.
>> CLOSE ENOUGH, SO THERE WAS A WHAT THEY CALL AS A VIRTUAL PIPELINE. [OVERLAPPING]
>> [INAUDIBLE] [LAUGHTER] SO NOT AN ACTUAL GENERATOR THERE THAT WOULD USE IT TO GENERATE POWER AND PUT IT BACK ON THE GRID.
>> WE PUT THAT OUT FOR COMPETITIVE BID, THAT WAS AN OPTION SOMEBODY COULD HAVE MADE.
BUT THIS IS WHERE WE ENDED UP IN TERMS OF THE BIDDING PROCESS.
>> [OVERLAPPING] EVALUATING THAT NOW. THERE IS ALL KIND OF COMPLICATIONS ASSOCIATED WITH THAT IN TERMS OF WHO WE ARE ON FEDERAL LEVEL.
>> IS IT A REQUIREMENT TO COLLECT IT NOW, OR CAN YOU STILL FLARE IT?
>> YOU EITHER GOT TO FLARE IT OFF OR YOU CAN COLLECT IT AND SELL IT.
>> GENERATE SOME REVENUE FROM IT.
THE PRUDENT THING TO DO WOULD BE TO GENERATE REVENUE AND REDUCE OUR DEBT.
>> THIS IS NOT A FINANCIAL QUESTION, BUT I KNOW IN THE LEGISLATURE, THERE HAS BEEN SOME DISCUSSION ABOUT PFAS TESTING.
WHERE ARE WE ON THAT? IS THAT INCLUDED IN THIS PLAN OR DO YOU KNOW WHAT YOU'RE GOING TO DO?
>> [INAUDIBLE] OPERATING BUDGET.
GARY CAN SPEAK MORE SUCCINCTLY ABOUT THAT THAN I CAN.
>> WE'RE REQUIRED RIGHT NOW TO SAMPLE THE LEACHATE THAT GENERATED FROM MIDSHORE II FOR PFAS COMPOUNDS AS WELL AS THE GROUNDWATER MONITORING WELLS THAT WE HAVE PLACED AT THE LANDFILL.
RIGHT NOW, WE'RE NOT REQUIRED TO TREAT PFAS, ALTHOUGH WE EXPECT THAT AT SOME POINT, THAT WILL BE THE REALITY FOR MIDSHORE II AS WELL AS ANY OTHER MIDSHORE SOLID WASTE LANDFILL IN THE STATE.
THERE'S NO BUDGET IN THE BOND PROPOSAL FOR PFAS TREATMENT RIGHT NOW.
>> WHAT WOULD BE THE PLAN IF LEGISLATION WAS PASSED?
>> WE WOULD TREAT [INAUDIBLE] CARBON MOST LIKELY AT THIS POINT UNTIL [INAUDIBLE] TECHNOLOGIES.
>> BUT TO COVER THAT POTENTIAL COST, YOU WOULD JUST HAVE TO RAISE THE TIPPING FEE.
>> WE HAVE TO INCLUDE IT, BUT EVERYBODY'S IN THAT SAME BOAT AT THAT POINT.
FROM A MARKET PERSPECTIVE, WE'RE ALL IN THE SAME BOAT.
>> BECAUSE I THINK IT'S COMING.
>> COMING. WE ANTICIPATED THAT, IF YOU RECALL FROM OUR DISCUSSION IN THE PAST, WE WERE CONCERNED ABOUT THE COST OF THAT.
>> HOW OFTEN ARE YOU REQUIRED TO TEST THE LEACHING?
>> THE GROUNDWATER IS SEMI-ANNUALLY, I BELIEVE, AND THE [INAUDIBLE] I REMEMBER CERTAINLY, MONTHLY.
>> YOU'RE GETTING READY TO CONSTRUCT CELL 5.
>> PROBABLY JUST ABOUT TWO YEARS.
>> TWO IS ALL. WHAT'S THE ADVANTAGE OF BONDING FOR CELL 1 NOW AS OPPOSED TO WAITING AND GOING TO BOND FOR IT?
>> IT'S THE CRAFT. BASICALLY, IT'S DECIDED TO COMBINE THE TWO, AND HOPEFULLY, GET GOOD RATES TO COME THROUGH.
THERE'S A COST ASSOCIATED WITH GOING OUT WITH BOND COUNCIL, WITH OUR FINANCIAL ADVISORS.
IT'S ABOUT HALF A MILLION DOLLARS RIGHT NOW, AND CLIMBING EVERY TIME WE'VE GOTTEN A PHONE CALL.
IF WE CAN DO IT ALL AT ONE TIME AND SAVE THE COST OF HAVING TO GO BACK TO BOND COUNCIL AND ISSUE AND THEN TAKE A CHANCE ON WHATEVER THE MARKET IS GOING TO BE AT THAT TIME, IT MAKES SENSE TO DO IT NOW.
>> BUT YOU WOULDN'T ACTUALLY START PAYING INTEREST ON THE MONEY FOR CELL 1 UNTIL YOU ACTUALLY USE IT TO CONSTRUCT THE CELL, OR ARE YOU PAYING INTEREST ON MONEY THAT YOU'RE NOT USING?
>> THAT'S A QUESTION WE CAN GO BACK TO OUR FINANCE FOLKS.
MY SHORT ANSWER IS I BELIEVE WE WOULD EARN INTEREST ON THAT.
WE COULD EARN INTEREST ON THOSE PROCEEDS.
WOULD IT BE THE SAME? IDEALLY, IT WOULD BE EQUAL TO OR SLIGHTLY MORE THAN WHAT WE ARE PAYING.
WE DON'T KNOW WHAT WE'RE GOING TO BE PAYING YET.
WE'D MAYBE LIKE A BID ON IN SEPTEMBER, BUT WE CAN EARN SOMEWHERE BETWEEN 3.5%- 4%.
WE THINK THE BOND COST CAN BE ABOUT 4%, SO WE CAN STILL EARN INTEREST ON IT.
>> IDEALLY, EVEN ON THE SUM OF IT FOR THE 17-YEAR LIFE, BUT AS TIM MENTIONED, YOU CAN ALSO EARN INTEREST UP TO A CERTAIN POINT
[00:20:02]
WITHOUT FLIPPING OFF ARBITRAGE OF MAKING MONEY ON TOP OF IT.>> THEY'LL HAVE TO TRACK THAT BEHIND THE SCENES TO MAKE SURE, BUT THE IDEA IS, HOPEFULLY, BREAK EVEN ON IT AND MAKE INTEREST AS MUCH AS YOU'RE PAYING THROUGH THE MARKET.
AGAIN, BEARING INTEREST RATES STAY THE SAME COMPETITIVE TO THE LOWER RATES.
>> IT MAKES SENSE TO YOU TO GO AHEAD AND BOND FOR EVERYTHING NOW?
>> IT JUST SEEMS ODD YOU BORROW MONEY JUST TO PUT IT IN THE BANK.
>> TO PUT IT IN THE BANK. IT'S GOING TO BE FIVE OR SIX YEARS, YOU PROBABLY MAKE THE ARGUMENT THAT IT WOULD NOT BE IDEAL TWO YEARS, KNOWING THAT YOU'RE PROBABLY GOING TO START SPENDING IN THAT TIME, AND JUST THE COST AND ALL OF THE HOURS AND WORK THAT COSTS TO DO AN ISSUANCE AND THE STATEMENT AND HAVING THE ALL FOUR COUNTIES GET THROUGH THIS.
I THINK IT MAKES SENSE IF YOU MEET WITH THE INTEREST RATES AND ESSENTIALLY WASH.
>> DANNY DID A MUCH BETTER JOB EXPLAINING IT THAN I COULD EVER DO.
>> UNLESS THE PRESIDENT GETS HIS WISH AND THE INTEREST RATES GET CUT.
>> [OVERLAPPING] WE HAD THAT CONVERSATION WITH PFM AND WITH BOND COUNCIL WHITEFORD.
>> I HAVEN'T THAT WORD ARBITRAGE FOR A LONG TIME, INTERESTING WORD.
>> IT WAS A MOVIE ONCE? I REMEMBER.
>> I USED TO DEAL WITH IT A LOT.
YOU'RE GOOD? GUYS, I APPRECIATE YOU COMING OVER AND GIVING US A BREAKDOWN OF EVERYTHING.
>> WE'LL PROBABLY SEE YOU AT MACO.
>> YEAH. DID YOU HAVE ANYTHING, DANNY, YOU WANTED TO ADD?
>> WE TAKE A LIMITED NUMBER OF FOLKS [INAUDIBLE] FORMER EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR.
>> [OVERLAPPING] THANK YOU, GENTLEMEN.
>> THIS IS ON OUR CONSENT AGENDA TO APPROVE, I THINK.
OUR NEXT ITEM IS NEWSPAPER OF RECORD REQUEST AND DISCUSSION WITH DEBBIE BOWDEN,
[Newspaper of Record Request and Discussion – Debbie Bowden, Owner, Caroline Review]
OWNER OF CAROLINE REVIEW. MORNING, DEBIE.>> GOOD MORNING. MORNING COMMISSIONERS.
THANK YOU FOR LETTING ME COME BEFORE YOU.
I DID SEND IN A BRIEFING MEMO, WELCOMING ME BACK TO MY GAZE WHEN I WAS BEFORE YOU IN ANOTHER CAPACITY.
ESSENTIALLY, I'M REQUESTING TODAY THAT THE COMMISSION CONSIDER ASKING THE EASTERN SHORE DELEGATION TO ADD LANGUAGE IN ANNOTATED CODE SECTION 1.113 THAT WOULD ALLOW CAROLINE COUNTY COMMISSIONERS TO GO THROUGH A PROCESS TO DETERMINE WHAT A NEWSPAPER OF RECORD WOULD ENTAIL FOR CAROLINE COUNTY.
THIS WOULD ALLOW FOR BROADER COMPETITION FOR PUBLIC NOTICES TO BE PLACED IN MULTIPLE PUBLICATIONS.
IT WOULD ALSO GIVE THAT CONTROL OVER WHAT THAT LOOKS LIKE TO THE COMMISSIONERS, MUCH LIKE SOME OF THE OTHER THINGS THAT YOU ALREADY DO FOR HAVING A HEALTH OFFICER THAT YOU DETERMINE OR HAVING THE HUMAN SERVICES COUNCIL.
NOT TO SAY THAT THIS IS ALONG THOSE LINES OF PROVIDING A SERVICE, BUT THE STATE OF MARYLAND HAS NOTED THAT PUBLIC NOTICES FROM LEGALS AND THE COUNTY AND THE TOWNS PROVIDES THE PUBLIC WITH VALUABLE INFORMATION.
I AM NOT SUGGESTING AT ALL THAT IN THE STATE LEGISLATIVE CHANGE, THAT ONE OR MORE PUBLICATIONS BE DETERMINED TO BE THE NEWSPAPER RECORD.
MY SUGGESTION IS JUST THAT THE COUNTY ASKS THE STATE THROUGH LEGISLATIVE CHANGE TO BE ABLE TO MAKE THAT DETERMINATION ITSELF.
PART OF THIS CAME ABOUT AS A RESULT OF LEGISLATION IN THE 2025 GENERAL ASSEMBLY HB74, WHICH WAS INTRODUCED TO ALLOW FOR PUBLIC NOTICES TO BE PUBLISHED IN PRINT, AND ORIGINALLY, THE LANGUAGE WAS OR DIGITAL.
IT GOT CHANGED TO AND DIGITAL.
THAT DID NOT PASS, BUT IN TESTIMONY FROM DELEGATE FOLEY WHO INTRODUCED THE LEGISLATION, SHE NOTED THROUGH A UNIVERSITY OF MARYLAND MERRILL SCHOOL OF JOURNALISM STUDY, THAT CAROLINE COUNTY WAS THE ONLY COUNTY THAT, AND I WANT TO MAKE SURE I GET THIS LANGUAGE CORRECT, DIDN'T HAVE ITS OWN NEWSPAPER.
[00:25:01]
THERE WAS NO PHYSICAL LOCATION OF A NEWSPAPER OFFICE.IT NOTED THAT THE TIMES RECORD HAD, SEVERAL YEARS AGO, BEEN WRAPPED IN TO THE STAR DEMOCRAT AS AN INSERT.
NOW, I BELIEVE MY COLLEAGUE HERE FROM THE STAR DEMOCRAT HAS SOME INFORMATION TO SHARE ABOUT THAT LATER IN PUBLIC COMMENT, BUT GOING OFF OF THAT STUDY THAT WAS SUBMITTED AS TESTIMONY HB74, AND RECOGNIZING HOW CAROLINE COUNTY SOMETIMES IS THAT OUTLIER FOR A LOT OF THINGS, AND MY EXPERIENCE IN BEING WITH THE COUNTY, I THOUGHT MAYBE THIS IS A WAY FOR THE COMMISSIONERS TO REALLY CONTROL THAT PART OF THEIR PUBLIC DUTY, AND THAT IS PUTTING OUT PUBLIC NOTICES TO THE COMMUNITY.
ONE STEP AT A TIME, THIS IS MY SUGGESTION, WOULD BE TO GO BEFORE THE DELEGATION TO PUT IN LANGUAGE THAT ADDS CAROLINE COUNTY TO BE ABLE TO SELECT HOW A NEWSPAPER OF RECORD LOOKS FOR THE COUNTY.
THEN I WOULD SUGGEST AND ENCOURAGE THAT I STEP AWAY AND THAT HOWEVER THE PROCESS WOULD BE FOR THE COMMISSION AND STAFF TO DETERMINE THAT, I WOULD NATURALLY COMPETE WITH THAT, BUT I WOULD REMOVE MYSELF THEN SO THAT THERE'S NO MORE QUESTION.
THERE WOULD NOT BE A QUESTION OF IMPROPRIETY OR FAVORITISM.
>> I'M STILL A LITTLE FUZZY ON THIS.
THIS WOULD BE, ULTIMATELY, TO DETERMINE WHERE PUBLIC NOTICES WOULD BE PRINTED OR WOULD APPEAR?
>> IF THE COMMISSIONERS DESIGNATE ONE SOURCE, THEN NO ONE ELSE WOULD BE ABLE TO DO IT?
>> THERE DOESN'T HAVE TO BE JUST ONE NEWSPAPER OF RECORD.
THERE CAN BE MULTIPLE NEWSPAPERS OF RECORD.
>> IT WOULD DETERMINE WHERE WE WOULD BE OBLIGATED TO ADVERTISE?
>> ONCE WE DESIGNATE ONE OR MORE NEWSPAPERS OR RECORDS, OUR PUBLIC NOTICES WOULD HAVE TO GO IN WHICHEVER WE DESIGNATE.
>> RIGHT NOW WHEN WE HAVE A PUBLIC NOTICE, IT'S GOING INTO WHERE?
>> BECAUSE THE CAROLINE SECTION IN THE STAR DEMOCRAT IS WITHIN THE STAR DEMOCRAT,?
>> IT'S ONLY PUBLISHED ON WEDNESDAYS, SOMETHING LIKE THAT?
>> IF WE WERE TO HAVE A FLEDGLING NEWSPAPER CROP UP IN THIS COUNTY AND SAY, WE'RE NOW GOING TO BE THE CAROLINE COUNTY, WHATEVER, THEN IN ORDER TO DO THIS, WE WOULD GO BACK TO THIS LEGISLATION.
IT WOULD HAVE TO BE AMENDED TO INCLUDE THAT PUBLICATION IF WE WANTED TO INCLUDE IT.
THE FIRST STEP WOULD BE TO SAY TO THE STATE IN SECTION 1.113, MUCH LIKE PRINCE GEORGE'S COUNTY HAS A CARVE OUT TO SAY THAT COUNCIL CAN DETERMINE NEWSPAPER OF RECORD, THERE'S SOME LANGUAGE THAT WAS ADDED FOR DORCHESTER COUNTY IN DORCHESTER COUNTY, NOT GIVING THAT COUNCIL ANY AUTHORITY, BUT THE STATE WOULD BE GIVING AUTHORITY TO CAROLINE COUNTY COMMISSIONERS TO DO SO.
>> THE STATE WOULD BE AUTHORIZING THE COUNTY TO DETERMINE THE PUBLICATIONS OF RECORD?
THERE'S STILL GUIDELINES THAT THE COUNTY WOULD HAVE TO FOLLOW.
IT COULDN'T GO ROGUE AND SAY THAT IT COULD BE EVERY SOCIAL MEDIA POST ON TIKTOK, FOR EXAMPLE, BUT IT GIVES THAT.
>> THOSE REQUIREMENTS ARE ON THE LAST PAGE HERE, I THINK.
>> I THINK IT'S ON THE SECOND PAGE.
>> THEY'RE WITHIN THE MEMO. HAS AT LEAST FOUR PAGES, HABITUALLY CONTAINS NEWS ITEMS, CURRENT EVENTS.
PUBLISH AND DISTRIBUTED BY SALE FOR AT LEAST SIX MONTHS BEFORE THE PUBLICATION, GENERAL CIRCULATION THROUGHOUT THE COMMUNITY, AND THEN QUALIFIES FOR PERIODIC RATES THROUGH THE USPS, THE UNITED STATES POSTAL SERVICE.
I JUST PUT A FOOTNOTE THERE BECAUSE AS LONG AS THAT SECTION 1.113 IS,
[00:30:03]
THE PERIODICALS IS MANY PAGES.ESSENTIALLY TO QUALIFY FOR PERIODIC RATES THROUGH THE POST OFFICE, YOU HAVE TO HAVE CIRCULATION, YOU HAVE TO HAVE SUBSCRIPTIONS, THERE'S A PERMITTING REQUIREMENT, ETC.
NONE OF IT'S ONEROUS, BUT IT'S JUST WHAT REALLY HELPS TO FURTHER DEFINE WHAT A NEWSPAPER OF RECORD IS.
>> WHEN WE DO PUBLIC NOTICES, IT GOES IN THE START DEMOCRAT, IT GOES IN THEIR WEEKLY PAPER, JUST SAY IT GOES IN THE TIMES RECORD, STAR DEMOCRAT, IT GOES ON WEDNESDAY, SO WE DO IT ONCE A WEEK.
IF THIS WAS CHANGED AND SAY, NOW CAROLINE COUNTY RECOGNIZES STAR DEMOCRAT AND CAROLINE REVIEW AS A PUBLIC PAPER OF RECOGNITION, HOW WOULD CAROLINE REVIEW DO IT WHERE THE DISTRIBUTION WOULD GO STRICTLY DIGITAL ON A WEEKLY BASIS, OR HOW WOULD YOU IMPLEMENT THAT INTO YOUR SYSTEM?
>> I APPRECIATE THAT QUESTION.
CAROLINE REVIEW REALLY HAS TWO TITLES NOW.
WE HAVE THE CAROLINE REVIEW MAGAZINE, WHICH IS THE MONTHLY PRINTED MAGAZINE THAT'S PUT OUT.
I'M NOT SUGGESTING PUBLIC NOTICES GO IN THAT.
WE DON'T FIT THE REQUIREMENT BECAUSE IT'S JUST ONCE A MONTH, BUT WE'VE STARTED CAROLINEREVIEW.NEWS, WHICH RIGHT NOW IS AN ONLINE NEWS SERVICE.
WE'RE PUBLISHING NEWS THIS MEETING, FEDERALSBURG MEETING LAST NIGHT, ETC, ON A MORE REGULAR BASIS.
THEN IN THAT, I JUST STARTED A ONLINE NEWSPAPER, WHICH IS BASICALLY AN E EDITION.
I AM NOT SUGGESTING THAT THE COMMISSIONERS CONSIDER WHAT CAROLINE REVIEW IS DOING RIGHT NOW FOR PUBLISHING A NEWSPAPER OR WEEKLY NEWS.
I HAVE TO LOOK AT IT THE OTHER WAY.
DEPENDING ON, LET'S SAY, THIS TIME NEXT YEAR, THE STATE LEGISLATION PASSES.
IN JUNE, YOU PUT FORTH LEGISLATION THAT SAYS, THIS IS WHAT LOOKS LIKE FOR A NEWSPAPER OF RECORD FOR CAROLINE COUNTY, I WOULD EITHER HAVE TO SWITCH WHAT I DO IN ORDER TO GET THAT BUSINESS, OR I WOULD JUST SAY, AT LEAST CAROLINE COUNTY NOW HAS THE OPTION.
I'M NOT READY TO MAKE THOSE BUSINESS DECISIONS, OR IT'S DETERMINED THAT YOU DO IT PURELY DIGITAL.
YOU DO HAVE TO FOLLOW SOME GUIDELINES FROM THE STATE.
THAT'S A LITTLE BIT OF A HURDLE TO OVERCOME, BUT I WANT TO BE CLEAR THAT I WANT TO BE ABLE TO COMPETE FOR IT, NOT NECESSARILY SAY THIS IS WHAT SHOULD BE DONE TO ACCOMMODATE CAROLINE REVIEW, BUT WE DO HAVE THE MORE DAILY NEWS THAT'S ONLINE RIGHT NOW.
>> BASICALLY, SO WHAT YOU'RE ASKING IS JUST FOR US TO PUT IT WHERE YOU'RE LETTING CAROLINE COUNTY DICTATE THAT WE GET TO RECOGNIZE THE PAPERS ON RECORD AND NOT SO MUCH GO BY WHAT THE STATE SAY.
YOU'RE SAYING IT'S PUT IN AN ERROR CODE TO THE OPTIONS THERE.
>> EXACTLY. FOLLOWING THE GUIDELINES THAT ARE STILL IN THE STATE, YEAH, BUT IT DOES MAKE THAT OPPORTUNITY.
YOU COULD PUT ADDITIONAL REQUIREMENTS.
>> HAVE YOU SPOKE TO ANY OF THE DELEGATIONS?
>> I HAVE NOT, NO. I WANTED TO COME TO YOU FIRST.
>> THIS WOULD PROBABLY FALL UNDER A LOCAL BILL.
IT WOULD BE A LOCAL BILL THAT WOULD BE INTRODUCED BY OUR LEGISLATOR.
I'M SITTING HERE, I'M ALWAYS TRYING TO THINK ABOUT WHY SOMEONE WOULD OPPOSE THIS.
I'M SURE THERE WILL BE, BUT I CAN'T FIGURE OUT WHY.
IT'S SIMPLY GIVING US THE OPPORTUNITY TO HAVE MORE OF A CHOICE OF WHERE WE PUBLISH.
>> THEN IF THEY DID PASS, SAY, YOU'RE FINE, YOU CAN RECOGNIZE MULTIPLE PAPERS, THEN YOU WOULD ADJUST ACCORDINGLY, IS WHAT YOU'RE SAYING?
>> IF THE COMMISSIONERS, A YEAR FROM NOW, SAID THIS IS WHAT WE SAY IS A NEWSPAPER OF RECORD, AND MY BUSINESS MODEL DOESN'T MEET THAT YET, YES, I WOULD HAVE TO RUN THE NUMBERS, JUST LIKE ANY BUSINESS AND SAY, YEAH, THAT MAKES SENSE OR NO.
I APPRECIATE THAT, AND I'LL JUST KEEP DOING WHAT I'M DOING.
>> GOT YOU. IT'S JUST LIKE IN QUEEN ANNE'S COUNTY WHERE THEY HAD THE TIDEWATER TRADING, I'M JUST USING, FOR EXAMPLE.
THEY COULD COME IN OVER THERE.
THEY CHANGED FOR QUEEN ANNE COUNTY.
THEIR WEEKLY OVER THERE, SO THEY COULD SAY, WE'RE ON A PAPER OF RECORD.
I'M JUST TRYING TO USE A COMPARISON.
[00:35:10]
>> STEWART, DO YOU HAVE ANY THOUGHTS ON IT?
>> SOUNDS GOOD. I THINK CERTAINLY GIVES US A LOT OF INFORMATION HERE TO THINK ABOUT.
APPRECIATE YOU PUTTING ALL THIS TOGETHER AND POINTING IT OUT.
AS YOU'VE INDICATED, THERE IS AT LEAST ONE OTHER COUNTY IN THE STATE THAT HAS THIS ABILITY.
IT'S NOT LIKE IT'S BLAZING NEW TERRITORY HERE.
IT'S JUST REQUESTING THAT SAME AUTHORITY BE EXTENDED TO US.
>> WE'LL JUST HAVE TO WORK ON WORDING OF THE REQUEST SO THAT WILL BE [INAUDIBLE].
>> I'M HAPPY TO PROVIDE ANY OTHER INFORMATION, BUT I DO WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT KEEP THESE GUARD RAILS IN PLACE SO THAT IT WOULDN'T HAVE ANY IMPROPRIETY OR PUT ME IN A DISADVANTAGE IF THIS WERE TO MOVE FORWARD.
I'M WILLING TO HELP IN ANY WAY I CAN.
>> JIM JOHNSON, MR. JOHNSON, DO YOU WANT TO COME UP? YOU'RE EXECUTIVE EDITOR AT APG.
>> THAT IS CORRECT. I HAVE A HANDOUT FOR YOU?
>> THANK YOU FOR THE OPPORTUNITY TO SPEAK HERE TODAY.
AS TRAVIS SAID, I'M THE EXECUTIVE EDITOR FOR APG CHESAPEAKE, WHICH INCLUDES THE TIMES RECORD IN CAROLINE COUNTY AND THE STAR DEMOCRAT.
BOTH OUR NEWSPAPERS SERVE CAROLINE COUNTY.
NEED TO SET THE RECORD STRAIGHT.
I HANDED OUT A DOCUMENT THERE.
DEBBIE BOWDEN GAVE AN EXCELLENT PRESENTATION.
THERE'S JUST ONE SMALL PROBLEM THAT'S BASED ON A FALSE PREMISE.
SHE SAID THERE'S NO LONGER PRINTED INDEPENDENT TITLE THAT "CONTAINS NEWS ITEMS, REPORTS OF CURRENT EVENTS, EDITORIAL COMMENTS, ADVERTISING MATTER, AND OTHER MISCELLANEOUS INFORMATION THAT IS OF INTEREST IN CAROLINE COUNTY." SHE BASED THAT COMMENT ON A REPORT BY THE SCHOOL OF JOURNALISM, UNIVERSITY OF MARYLAND.
I HAVE A COPY OF THE REPORT HERE.
PROBLEM IS THAT THE REPORT INCORRECTLY STATED THAT CAROLINE COUNTY DID NOT HAVE A NEWS OUTLET.
I PASSED OUT THE LETTER THERE, AND THE LETTER SIMPLY SAYS, I'M WRITING TO ALERT YOU AN ERROR THAT WAS IN THE ORIGINAL MARYLAND LOCAL NEWS ECOSYSTEM STUDY.
THE ORIGINAL VERSION INCORRECTLY STATED THAT CAROLINE COUNTY WAS ONLY COUNTY IN THE STATE WITHOUT A NEWS OUTLET.
THEY'VE AMENDED THE REPORT, AND THE NEW VERSION SAYS, APG CHESAPEAKE HAS REPORTERS SIGNED TO COVER THE COUNTY HALFTIME AND A WEEKLY INSERT OF THE TIMES RECORD IS NOW INCLUDED IN THE STAR DEMOCRAT FOR CAROLINE RESIDENTS.
IN OTHER WORDS, APG CHESAPEAKE CONTINUES TO COVER CAROLINE COUNTY, PROVIDING LOCAL NEWS TO THE COUNTY'S RESIDENTS.
A COUPLE OF SMALL NEWSPAPER GROUPS, APG CHESAPEAKE AND BAY TO BAY TIMES SEEM FOR THE MOMENT TO HAVE FOUND A MIDDLE GROUND OFFERING SHARED TECHNOLOGY PLATFORMS TO THEIR SMALLER BUT WELL ESTABLISHED COMMUNITY NEWSPAPERS, WHOSE NEWSROOM LEADERS OFFER SOME OF THE RICHEST HYPER LOCAL CONTENT WE FOUND.
IN OTHER WORDS, THEY'RE SAYING, APG CHESAPEAKE DOES A GREAT JOB OF COVERING LOCAL NEWS IN THE MARKETS THAT WE HAVE SERVICE.
I WANT TO ADD THAT WE HAVE A REPORTER ASSIGNED TO COVER CAROLINE COUNTY.
APG CHESAPEAKE ALSO HAS ADDITIONAL RESOURCES.
IN THE AUDIENCE TODAY, WE HAVE CONNOR METZ.
AHMAD GARNETT, WHO USUALLY COVERS CAROLINE COUNTY FOR US, WAS IN FEDERALSBURG LAST NIGHT.
HE'S UPDATING THE STORY THAT HE WROTE AND WAS ONLINE THIS MORNING.
[00:40:04]
WE HAVE RESOURCES SO IT'S NOT JUST A HALF A REPORTER THAT WE HAVE COVERING CAROLINE COUNTY.IN ADDITION, BIFF HOFE REGULARLY COVERS SPORTS AT NORTH CAROLINE AND COLONEL RICHARDSON HIGH SCHOOLS.
I ALSO WANT TO POINT OUT THAT THE TIMES RECORD CURRENTLY RUNS PUBLIC NOTICES.
OBJECTING A LITTLE BIT TO YOUR COMMENT THAT THEY'RE IN THE STAR DEMOCRAT, THEY'RE IN THE TIMES RECORDS SECTION OF THE STAR DEMOCRAT.
WHEN YOU LOOK ONLINE FOR THAT PUBLIC NOTICE, YOU LOOK IT UP, IT WILL SAY THAT IT WAS PUBLISHED IN THE TIMES RECORD.
I WENT ONLINE YESTERDAY AND FOUND NEARLY 90 TIMES PUBLIC NOTICES PUBLISHED IN THE LAST 60 DAYS.
IT'S NOTICE ON THE TOWN OF HENDERSON PUBLIC HEARING ON STREET IMPROVEMENTS, STORM WATER UPGRADES.
IT WAS A NOTICE OF PUBLIC HEARING BY THE CAROLINE COUNTY BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS CONSIDERING AN EXEMPTION FOR A WASTEWATER TREATMENT FACILITY IN RIDGELY, NOTICES FOR SELF STORAGE UNITS WHOSE CONTENTS WERE BEING SOLD, MECHANICS LIENS, NOTICES OF PERSONAL REPRESENTATIVES FOR ESTATES, TRANSFERS OF BEER AND WINE LICENSES GOES ON AND ON.
CAROLINE COUNTY HAS A NEWSPAPER TODAY AS DEFINED BY THE STATE OF MARYLAND.
WHILE YOU HAVE A WELL INTENTIONED PROPOSAL BEFORE YOU, THERE REALLY IS NO NEED FOR ADDITIONAL LEGISLATION ON THIS.
ONE LAST POINT, THE STUDY DONE BY THE UNIVERSITY OF MARYLAND DID NOT RECOGNIZE THE CAROLINE REVIEW AS A NEW SOURCE FOR CAROLINE COUNTY WHEN THEY SAID THAT THERE'S NO NEWS SOURCES HERE.
ANYWAY, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR TIME, AND I'D BE HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS YOU MIGHT HAVE.
>> JIM, WHAT OTHER PAPERS DOES APG CHESAPEAKE OWN.
DO THEY OWN THE KENT COUNTY PAPER.
>> WE HAVE A DOZEN NEWSPAPERS IN MARYLAND.
ONE IN DELAWARE, THE NEW YORK POST.
I CAN RUN THROUGH A NAME, SOUTHERN MARYLAND NEWS.
>> JUST THE EASTERN SHORE OR SURROUNDING.
>> DO YOU OPERATE ONE IN DORCHESTER?
>> DORCHESTER STAR, THE STAR DEMOCRAT, TIMES RECORD, THE KENT COUNTY NEWS, THE QUEEN ANNE'S.
>> BUT WE ARE THE ONLY COVERAGE THAT IS AN INSERT IN THE STAR DEMOCRAT.
THOSE OTHER COUNTIES STILL HAVE THEIR OWN STAND ALONE PAPER.
>> KENT COUNTY IS 20,000 PEOPLE, WE'RE 34,000 PEOPLE.
WHY WAS THAT DECISION MADE TO MAKE OUR COVERAGE?
>> FOR THE AMOUNT OF ADVERTISING THAT WE GET INTO THE PUBLICATIONS, NUMBER OF SUBSCRIBERS WE HAVE.
IT'S REALLY, THEY'RE BREAK EVEN POINTS FOR US.
>> YOU DON'T HAVE A LOCATION IN THIS COUNTY.
I GUESS MY QUESTION IS, YOU'RE IN OPPOSITION TO THIS?
>> THE OPPOSITION IS THAT THIS WOULD BE A INSTANCE WHERE THEY ARE TAKING THE PUBLIC NOTICES AND SAYING THEY DON'T HAVE TO APPEAR IN A NEWSPAPER AS DEFINED BY THE STATE LEGISLATURE THAT IT COULD OPEN IT UP.
I AM SURE THE BALTIMORE BANNER WOULD LOVE TO HAVE THIS CARVE OUT FOR THEM, ALSO.
>> WELL, THAT'S UP TO BALTIMORE.
I DON'T CARE WHAT BALTIMORE BANNER DOES.
>> BUT IT'S THE ONLINE NEWSPAPER THAT HAS A WIDE READERSHIP, BECAUSE THEY DO NOT MEET THE DEFINITION OF A NEWSPAPER, THEY DO NOT QUALIFY FOR PUBLIC NOTICES.
>> THE TIMES RECORD IS PUBLISHED ON WEDNESDAYS.
>> THAT' CORRECT. >> THE WEDNESDAY'S EDITION INSIDE THE STAR.
HOW MUCH IS A STAR DEMOCRAT PAPER? IS IT THE SAME FOR THAT PAPER AS IT IS FOR THE DORCHESTER PAPER OR KENT THE COST? DO YOU KNOW?
>> WELL, DORCHESTER STAR IS A FREE PUBLICATION.
WE HAVE, I THINK, 30 DIFFERENT PLACES WHERE WE DISTRIBUTE IT.
KENT COUNTY, OUR SUBSCRIPTION RATES ARE BASICALLY THE SAME ACROSS MOST OF OUR NEWSPAPERS DISCOUNT DIFFERENCES.
>> THE REPORTS AND THE COVERAGE THAT YOU HAVE IS NOT IN QUESTION.
I THINK IN TODAY'S DIGITAL WORLD, WE JUST HAVE TO HAVE OTHER OPTIONS.
I THINK THIS LAW IS PROBABLY A LITTLE BIT ANTIQUATED TO SAY, I THINK IN TODAY'S WORLD, PEOPLE NEED MORE. DO YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN?
>> THE PUBLIC NOTICES ARE PUBLISHED DIGITALLY ALSO.
[00:45:06]
>> IF TO GO ONLINE, DO YOU HAVE TO PAY TO HAVE SUBSCRIPTION?
>> ON THE STAR RECORD. IT'S FREE?
>> YES, FOR THE PUBLIC NOTICE.
>> I'M JUST SAYING PAY FOR THE ANNUAL.
>> I DON'T KNOW. FOR ALL OF APG CHESAPEAKE NEWSPAPERS, YES, THE PUBLIC NOTICES ARE FREE, JUST AS CLASSIFIED ADVERTISINGS NOT BEHIND THE PAYWALL.
WHAT'S BEHIND THE PAYWALL OR ACTUAL ARTICLES THAT WE'RE PRODUCING.
>> BUT YOU HAVE TO PAY FOR THAT. DO YOU HAVE TO? >> THAT IS CORRECT. WELL, THERE'S LIKE YOU CAN GET FIVE FREE READS A MONTH OUT THERE.
IT'S NOT ENTIRELY [INAUDIBLE].
>> NORMALLY, YOU WOULD HAVE FIVE FREE ACCESSES.
>> THEN AFTER THAT, YOU WOULD NEED A SUBSCRIPTION.
DANNY, DO YOU HAVE A FIGURE ON HOW MUCH WE SPEND ON PUBLIC NOTICES A YEAR?
>> NO. OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD, I DO NOT SO WE CAN PULL, THEN COME UP WITH [INAUDIBLE].
I'LL MAKE A NOTE OF IT. WE'LL REPORT THAT TOMORROW.
>> DID YOU HAVE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? NO? ALL RIGHT JIM, WELL, WE APPRECIATE YOU COMING OVER.
>> I APPRECIATE TAKING THE TIME TO HEAR ME.
>> I JUST WANT TO GO. WE APPRECIATE YOUR RELATIONSHIP WITH APG AND ALL YOU'VE DONE.
I'M ONE THAT FEELS THAT IN TODAY'S WORLD, YOU NEED OTHER AVENUES AND OTHER ACCESS TO DIFFERENT RESOURCES, BEING IN THE DIGITAL AGE. THAT'S ALL.
>> BUT WE APPRECIATE ALL THAT YOU'VE DONE, ALL YOUR REPORT AND EVERYTHING. THAT'S NOT THE ISSUE.
>> BUT THESE NOTICES ARE ALSO POSTED ON OUR WEBSITE.
>> NOT ALL THE PUBLIC NOTICES.
>> WELL, AND IN ADDITION, THERE'S TOWN OF FEDERALSBURG AND QUEEN'S BOROUGH.
THE TIMES RECORD IS ONE PLACE WHERE ALL OF THEM COME TOGETHER?
>> DO YOU KNOW HOW THAT WOULD AFFECT THE MUNICIPALITIES? ARE THE MUNICIPALITIES REQUIRED TO ADVERTISE IN OUR DESIGNATED PAPER OF RECORD?
I DO NOT KNOW THAT FOR A FACT.
>> THAT'S SOMETHING WE MIGHT WANT TO INVESTIGATE, TOO.
>> ONE OF MY QUESTIONS IS, WHEN WE GET CERTIFICATES OF PUBLICATION, IT DOESN'T SAY WE'RE CERTIFYING THAT IT WAS PUBLISHED IN TIMES RECORD.
IT'S THE STAR DEMOCRAT, AT LEAST AS FAR AS I KNOW.
>> IT SHOULD SAY TIMES RECORD AND STAR DEMOCRAT ON THERE.
>> THE CHABERTON SOLAR, FOR EXAMPLE, WAS STRICTLY STAR DEMOCRAT.
PUBLIC NOTICES FOR THAT, PUBLIC HEARING?
>> I UNDERSTAND WHAT JIM'S SAYING, AND I THINK IT'S JUST A NUANCED DETAIL.
IT DOES HAVE ITS OWN HEADING, BUT TO A STUDENT AT THE UNIVERSITY OF MARYLAND PUTTING THIS STUDY TOGETHER, IT LOOKS LIKE IT'S THE STAR DEMOCRAT.
BECAUSE YOU GOT TO DIG INTO IT AND IT JUST HAS A SECTION INSIDE.
I UNDERSTAND YOUR ARGUMENT THAT IT IS A SEPARATE PUBLICATION, BUT IT IS AN INSERT.
THAT'S WHY I ASKED THE QUESTION ABOUT COST.
DOES IT COST MORE FOR US TO GET ALL THE TALBOT COUNTY NEWS, TOO THAT COMMISSIONER PORTER LOVES TO READ? [LAUGHTER]
>> WE'RE AN INSERT IN NEWSPAPER WITH NO LOCATION.
>> DO YOU HAVE A WAY TO, I'M SURE THERE'S A WAY SOMEHOW, BUT I'M NOT COMPUTER SMART, BUT TO KNOW HOW MANY PEOPLE COME TO THE PUBLIC NOTICES ON A DAILY BASIS?
>> YOUR IT PEOPLE PROBABLY DO?
>> WE COULD PROBABLY FIGURE THAT OUT.
WE TRACK OUR ARTICLES IS WHAT WE DO.
>> DO YOU KNOW HOW MANY TIMES, LIKE IF I GO AND TRY TO GET FREE READS, I HAD FIVE TIMES AND I CAN'T GO BACK FOR THE SIX TIMES?
>> YOU HAVE TO KNOW SOMETHING ELSE? [OVERLAPPING]
>> I HAVE THE PUBLIC ADVERTISEMENT COST.
[00:50:01]
LAST FISCAL YEAR, IN TOTAL, WE SPENT $37,207 ON PUBLIC ADVERTISEMENT.I WILL CAVEAT THAT WITH ABOUT 22,000, 23,000 OF THAT IS FOR THE TAX SALE ALONE.
WE HAVE MULTIPLE REQUIRED LISTINGS THAT HAVE TO GO IN CIRCULATION FOUR OR FIVE WEEKS IN A ROW.
OUTSIDE OF THAT, YOU'RE PROBABLY LOOKING 14,000, 15,000 THAT ARE SPENT ON PUBLIC HEARINGS, ANY ADS THAT GO FOR OTHER REASONS.
>> IT'S ABOUT 37,000 ON PUBLIC NOTICES?
>> WHAT THE TAX SALE TAKES UP, HOW MANY [INAUDIBLE], PROBABLY THREE OR FOUR?
>> MORE THAN THAT AT TIMES, ESPECIALLY WHEN THE FIRST COUPLE OF LISTINGS GO OUT AND THERE'S 200 PROPERTIES THAT ARE LISTED.
>> I WOULD LIKE TO JUST MAKE SOMETHING CLEAR FOR THE RECORD.
THIS IS DEBBIE BOWDEN, PUBLISHER OF CAROLINE REVIEW.
I WANT TO CLARIFY THAT THE REQUEST FOR THE LEGISLATIVE CHANGE IS JUST THAT THE COUNTY BE ABLE TO MAKE THE DETERMINATION, WHAT IS THE NEWSPAPER OF RECORD? I AM NOT SUGGESTING AT THIS POINT WHAT THAT LOOKS LIKE.
NOT DIGITAL, NOT PRINTED, NOT PUT ON A BILLBOARD.
I JUST WANTED TO CLARIFY THAT ON THE RECORD. THANK YOU.
>> THANKS. WELL, APPRECIATE BOTH OF YOU BECAUSE IT'S SOMETHING, IT'S GIVEN US A LOT TO THINK ABOUT.
THANK YOU. MOVING ON OUR NEXT ITEM IS CAROLINE COUNTY YMCA DISCUSSION WITH MR. ROBERT GILL, CEO. ROBBIE.
[Caroline County YMCA Discussion – Robbie Gill, CEO YMCA of the Chesapeake]
>> MORNING. HOW ARE YOU? GOOD. MY BACK'S KILLING ME RIGHT NOW SITTING HERE.
>> BEFORE, MR. GILLS STARTS. I JUST WANT TO SAY.
ROBBIE AND I MET TO TALK ABOUT JUST REINVIGORATING THE CONVERSATION ABOUT THE YMCA COMING TO CAROLINE COUNTY.
I THINK THE CONVERSATION, MAYBE COMMISSIONER PORTER AND I HAD.
I ASKED HIM TO COME TODAY JUST TO TALK ABOUT, I GUESS, TO RESTART THAT CONVERSATION AND TALK ABOUT HOW WE MIGHT MOVE FORWARD.
>> SURE. WELL, THANK YOU FOR THE OPPORTUNITY.
I HAD A CHANCE TO SPEAK TO THIS GROUP BRIEFLY, MAYBE SIX MONTHS AGO AND THEN SPENT SOME TIME WITH COMMISSIONER PORTER A YEAR AGO.
THE YMCA ESTABLISHED A STOREFRONT FACILITY WHERE THE OLD ROSES USED TO BE, IT WAS US AND THE ROSES BACK IN 2011.
WE HAD ABOUT A 1,000 PEOPLE THAT WERE DRIVING TO TALBOT COUNTY REGULARLY, AND OUR BOARD REALLY FELT LIKE WE NEEDED TO BE IN COMMUNITIES WHERE WE WERE SERVING FOLKS.
THAT GOAL WAS TO ULTIMATELY THEN LEAD TO A FACILITY BEING BUILT.
WHEN THE THREE BOYS DROWNED IN THE MARSHY HOPE CREEK IN FARELESBURG, IN 2012.
WE PARTNERED WITH THE COUNTY AND PARKS AND REC TO PROVIDE AT THE TIME, LEARNED TO SWIM PROGRAMMING AT THE COUNTRY CLUB POOL, AND THEN BUS KIDS FROM FARELESBURG ELEMENTARY [INAUDIBLE] FOR MANY YEARS, PROVIDING THOSE PROGRAMMING.
THE Y IN THIS COMMUNITY IS AT LEAST THE MENTORING PROGRAM, MIDDLE SCHOOL SPORTS, TONS OF HEALTH INTERVENTION PROGRAMMING AROUND PARKINSON'S CANCER SURVIVOR AND VERY INVOLVED, WE'VE ALWAYS WANTED TO BUILD A FULL FACILITY IN THIS COMMUNITY.
>> BACK IN THE DAY, WE HAD CONVERSATIONS WITH JOE SHEEHAN WHEN HE WAS THE PRESIDENT CHOPTANK COMMUNITY HEALTH ABOUT MAYBE PARTNERING WITH THEM AT THE SITE THEY WERE GOING TO BUILD, AND THAT DIDN'T WORK OUT.
WE TALKED TO THE GIRL SCOUTS ABOUT CAMP TODD.
THEN ULTIMATELY, PRE-PANDEMIC, THE 404 SITE BECAME A TOPIC AND THE Y ENTERED INTO AN AGREEMENT WITH THE COUNTY TO POTENTIALLY BUILD A SITE THERE.
AT THE TIME, THERE WAS SOME CHALLENGES IN THAT THE SITE WASN'T PART OF THE TOWN.
YOU GUYS HAD BUILT THAT EMS BUILDING AND HAD TO PUT YOUR OWN SEPTIC IN.
THERE WAS SOME FIGHTING OVER PARKING METERS IN TOWN AND A LOT OF OTHER STUFF AND THEN THE PANDEMIC HIT.
AT THE SAME TIME IN 2019, IN JULY OF '19, WE RECEIVED A $2 MILLION GIFT AS A GIFT OF MOMENTUM TO BUILD A Y IN QUEEN ANNE'S COUNTY THAT WAS ON A SIMILAR TRACK WHERE WE HAD A STOREFRONT THERE, AS WELL AS A $2.5 MILLION GIFT FOR CAROLINE COUNTY AS A MOMENTUM GIFT TO BUILD A Y IN THIS COMMUNITY.
BOTH COUNTIES HAD AN INTEREST IN A SENIOR CENTER BEING EMBEDDED WITHIN THE YMCA.
WE BEGAN PROCESSES IN BOTH COMMUNITIES WORKING THROUGH THAT.
[00:55:01]
QUEEN ANNE'S COUNTY, ALL THOSE THINGS FELL INTO PLACE.THE COUNTY WORKED WITH US ON A $850,000 GRANT THROUGH THE DEPARTMENT OF AGING.
WE WERE ABLE TO SECURE FUNDING IN A VARIETY OF WAYS.
THE COUNTY HELPED IN THAT, AND THEN, OF COURSE, IN OCTOBER 23, THAT FACILITY OPENED.
IN CAROLINE COUNTY, YOU HAD A TRANSITION WITH KEN DECKER LEAVING AND A NEW COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR COMING IN.
THERE WASN'T SUPPORT FROM AN ADMINISTRATIVE STANDPOINT ON THE $850,000 GRANT THROUGH THE DEPARTMENT OF AGING, WHICH SECRETARY ROG, WHO'S IN OFFICE NOW, DEEPLY BELIEVES THAT'S A GREAT PARTNERSHIP.
WE JUST RAN INTO ROADBLOCKS, INCLUDING HOW YOU HAD EVEN DEVELOPED THAT SITE FROM AN INFRASTRUCTURE STANDPOINT, AND THE COUNTY HAD ALSO WAS TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHAT TO DO WITH THAT SITE.
I THINK SOMETHING WE STILL TRYING TO NAVIGATE.
ULTIMATELY, IN 2022, WE GAVE THAT $2.5 MILLION BACK TO THE DONOR THAT GAVE IT TO US FROM CAROLINE COUNTY BECAUSE WE REALLY DIDN'T SEE A PATHWAY FORWARD.
I'M EXCITED TO BE HERE TODAY AND TRY TO WORK THROUGH A PROCESS OF FIGURING OUT HOW TO BRING A Y TO THIS COMMUNITY.
I THINK IT CAN BE TREMENDOUSLY TRANSFORMATIONAL.
SINCE '19, WE'VE BUILT A Y IN ST. MICHAEL'S, IN QUEEN ANNE'S COUNTY, AND CHESTERTOWN, AND BUILDING A Y IN ST. MARY'S COUNTY NOW.
MOST OF THOSE ARE THROUGH PARTNERSHIPS WITH MUNICIPALITIES TO REALLY MAKE A POSITIVE IMPACT.
MOST OF THOSE FACILITIES ARE VERY CLOSE TO A SCHOOL, IF NOT ADJACENT TO A SCHOOL.
THE Y IN QUEEN ANNES IS ACROSS FROM QUEEN ANNES HIGH SCHOOL.
THE Y IN ST. MARY'S COUNTY IS ACROSS FROM GREAT MILLS HIGH SCHOOL.
THE ST. MICHAEL'S YMCA SITS ON SCHOOL PROPERTY.
THERE'S AN ELEMENTARY SCHOOL VERY CLOSE TO THE FACILITY IN CHESTERTOWN.
I KNOW YOU'RE HAVING CONVERSATIONS AROUND A NEW LOCKERMAN MIDDLE.
SOLVING THE LAND CHALLENGE IS THE FIRST PIECE TO THE PUZZLE.
IF WE CAN FIGURE OUT WHERE THE RIGHT LOCATION FOR A YMCA WOULD GO, THEN I THINK YOU CAN WORK TOWARDS THE FUND RAISING COMPONENT AND THE BUILDING OF FUNDING MODEL THAT COULD ULTIMATELY BRING A Y TO THE COMMUNITY.
>> DID THE TOWN EVER OFFER THE OLD SOUTHERN STATES PROPERTY? I DON'T KNOW IF YOU'RE FAMILIAR WITH WHERE SOUTHERN STATES IS LOCATED.
>> YES. TO THAT SITE, AT THE TIME, MR. MOREN WAS IN POSITION AUTHORITY AT THAT TIME.
THERE WAS SOME CHALLENGES TO THAT SITE, AND THERE WAS AN OLD BUILDING THERE THAT WAS GOING TO HAVE TO STAY, AND WE HAD SOME CONCERNS AROUND ACCESSIBILITY BECAUSE THERE'S NO SHOULDER ON THE ROAD THERE.
BUT THERE WAS A DISCUSSION AROUND THAT SITE AS WELL.
FROM A SITE SIZE STANDPOINT, THEY VARY FROM SEVEN ACRES TO 16 IN QUEEN ANNE'S COUNTY.
MICHAEL'S IS A 20,000 SQUARE FOOT FOOTPRINT BECAUSE IT'S ON SCHOOL PROPERTY.
IT REALLY JUST DEPENDS ON WHAT THE COMMUNITY NEED LOOKS LIKE AND HOW YOU TACKLE THAT.
I'VE READ ARTICLES IN THE DEMOCRAT AROUND HOW YOU'RE TRYING TO NAVIGATE THIS NEW SCHOOL, AND CAN YOU SHARE USAGE OF SPACE.
THE Y IN QUEEN ANNE'S COUNTY IS A DOUBLE GYMNASIUM WITH A TRACK, AND SO WE HOST QUEEN ANNES HIGH SCHOOLS, MIDDLE SCHOOL TEAMS THERE, AS WELL AS PRIVATE SCHOOLS AND SWIM TEAMS AND EVERYTHING ELSE.
THAT'S THE OTHER PIECE TOO, IS WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT BUILDING A Y, YOU'RE CREATING AN AMENITY THAT ALSO CAN BE A BENEFIT TO ALL THESE GAPS THAT WE HAVE IN CAROLINE COUNTY TO TACKLE OUTSIDE OF THE POOL IS A GLARING ONE.
BUT YOU TEND TO RUN INTO CHALLENGES WHEN IT COMES TO RECREATION SPACES TO SERVE ALL THE KIDS THAT YOU'VE GOTTEN.
COHABITATING OR BEING STRATEGIC ABOUT LOCATION WOULD BE KEY TO WHERE IT WAS.
A GOOD EXAMPLE OF WHERE THAT DOESN'T WORK WELL IS WE HAVE A YMCA IN POKEMON CITY.
THE COUNTY GAVE US PROPERTY THERE EONS AGO, RIGHT ADJACENT TO AN OLD ABANDONED LANDFILL, AND IT'S A BEAUTIFUL SITE WITH 100 ACRE POND AND A BUNCH OF OTHER 10-ACRE POND AND 100 ACRE SITE, BUT THERE IS NO POPULATION THERE.
IT'S A CHALLENGING SITE FOR US TO OPERATE AND FOR US TO USE.
NOW, WE DO LEARN TO SWIM PROGRAMMING FOR ACOMA COUNTY, SOMERSET COUNTY, AND WORCESTER COUNTY THERE.
BUT AS FAR AS A CRITICAL POPULATION BASE TO MAKE THE Y SUSTAINABLE, IT'S CHALLENGING.
NO DIFFERENT THAN KENT COUNTY BUILT A RECREATION CENTER IN THE NORTHERN PART OF THEIR COUNTY CLOSE TO THE HIGH SCHOOL AND NO ONE CAN ACCESS IT.
I THINK, YOU WANT TO STRATEGICALLY THINK ABOUT A SITE THAT YOU MAXIMIZE.
>> YOUR Y IN KENT COUNTY IS NOT NEAR A SCHOOL.
I THINK THEY HAVE A SIMILAR SITUATION THERE WHERE
[01:00:03]
THEIR SCHOOL WAS OUT IN THE MIDDLE OF NOWHERE SECLUDED.>> THE HIGH SCHOOL IS WAY UP NORTH, RIGHT?
>> HIGH SCHOOL AND A MIDDLE SCHOOL.
>> BUT YOU'VE GOT AN ELEMENTARY SCHOOL THERE AND THEN PARTNERING WITH THE SCHOOL SYSTEM, WE'RE BUSING KIDS THERE.
THAT AS AN EXAMPLE, THAT YOU MENTIONED THAT THAT COUNTY IS 19,000 PEOPLE, THE Y HAS 6,200 MEMBERS SERVING A THIRD OF THE POPULATION ON A REGULAR BASIS.
IT'S IN THAT CORE COMMUNITY SPACE.
THEN YOU HAVE PROGRAMS LIKE ROCK STUDY BOXING FOR PEOPLE AT PARKINSON'S AND CORE PROGRAMS THAT PEOPLE REALLY NEED THAT ARE ALL COMPLETELY FREE.
PEOPLE TRAVEL FROM ROCK HALL AND OUTLYING COMMUNITIES TO PARTICIPATE IN THOSE.
NO DIFFERENT THAN WE HAVE PEOPLE THAT TRAVEL FROM CAROLINE COUNTY TO PARTICIPATE IN OUR SPECIAL NEEDS CAMP THAT'S TAKING PLACE RIGHT NOW, AS WELL AS THOSE HEALTH INTERVENTION-BASED PROGRAMS, BECAUSE PEOPLE NEED THOSE.
THE GOAL FOR US, HAVING BEEN HERE PERSONALLY 20 YEARS, SERVING THIS COMMUNITY PHYSICALLY IN ITS LOCATION FOR 14 YEARS, THE GOAL IS STILL TO BUILD A YMCA THAT CAN BE A HUB FOR COMMUNITY HERE.
WE JUST HAVEN'T SOLVED THE FIRST PIECE OF THE PUZZLE, WHICH IS THE RIGHT SITE AND HOW EVERYBODY ON BOARD.
>> HOW DID THE SENIOR CENTERS WORK? THERE'S GRANT FUNDING TO CONSTRUCT THE FACILITIES.
IS UPPER SHORE AGING USING THE SPACE OR YOU WHO PROVIDES THE PROGRAMMING IN THAT SITUATION?
>> YES, SIR. EVERYONE DOES THAT A LITTLE DIFFERENTLY.
IN TALBOT COUNTY, UPPER SHORE AGING RUNS THE SENIOR CENTER THAT'S EMBEDDED WITHIN THE YMCA.
WE'RE SHARING AND USING SPACES.
IN QUEEN ANNE'S COUNTY, THE COUNTY RUNS THAT PROGRAM.
WHEN WE BUILT THAT Y, WE BUILT A KITCHEN FOR CONGREGATE MEALS AND SPACES FOR THOSE PROGRAMS. THEN WE ARE REALLY THE PREDOMINANT PROVIDER OF HEALTH AND WELLNESS BASED PROGRAMMING FOR THEIR SENIOR CENTER SERVICES.
THEN, WHETHER IT'S PINOCHLE OR TAXES ADVICE OR CONGREGATE MEALS, THERE ARE SPECIFIC PROGRAMS THAT THE COUNTY IS PROVIDING FOR OLDER ADULTS.
WHERE WE SEE REAL POWER IN THAT IS YOU'RE BRINGING IN SMALL COMMUNITIES, YOU'RE BRINGING EVERYONE INTO ONE SPACE.
FOR OLDER ADULTS, THEY'RE IN A SPACE WITH TONS OF KIDS, SO YOU HAVE THIS INTERGENERATIONAL CONNECTION PIECE.
BUT THEN ALSO SOMEONE MAY BE INVOLVED IN THE CONGREGATE MEAL PROGRAM AND THEN THEY'RE LEARNING ABOUT ANOTHER PROGRAM THAT THEY COULD BE INVOLVED IN AS WELL AS A Y MEMBER WHO'S OLDER COMING IN AND SAY, CONGREGATE MEAL PROGRAM, I'M GOING TO BE A PART OF THAT.
IN THESE RURAL COMMUNITIES, BRINGING EVERYONE TOGETHER MAKES A LOT OF SENSE.
AS FAR AS FROM A COST STANDPOINT, WE DON'T CHARGE THE COUNTIES FOR ANY OCCUPIED SPACE WITHIN THE BUILDING. IT'S A PARTNERSHIP.
THE KEY FOR US WAS ASSISTANCE AND HELP FOR BUILDING THE BUILDING.
IN THAT $850,000 GRANT PARTNERING WITH THE COUNTY TO GET THOSE FUNDS IN PLACE.
QUEEN ANNE'S COUNTY PUT MONEY INTO THAT PROJECT TO HELP.
IT WAS, SAID AND DONE, 25 MILLION.
THEY WERE A LITTLE LESS THAN ABOUT 10% OF THAT.
THE STATE PUT IN ABOUT THREE, AND THE REST CAME THROUGH PRIVATE CONTRIBUTIONS.
>> THERE'S A LOCAL REQUIREMENT ON THE GRANT, THE $850,000 GRANT.
PROBABLY AS WELL, A LOCAL MATCH OF A CERTAIN PERCENTAGE.
>> THAT'S RIGHT. IT'S NOT A DOLLAR FOR DOLLAR, BUT THERE'S A REQUIREMENT THAT THERE'S COUNTING PARTICIPATION.
THEN YOU ALSO HAVE TO SIGN AN AGREEMENT THAT SAYS, YOU'RE GOING TO RUN THE SENIOR CENTER PROGRAMMING FOR THE NEXT 15 YEARS.
IF YOU DON'T, YOU'VE GOT TO GIVE THAT MONEY BACK.
WHAT WE HAVE IN PLACE WITH TALBOT COUNTY AND QUEEN ANNE'S COUNTY IS, FOR SOME REASON, THEY DECIDED TO NO LONGER RUN THOSE SENIOR CENTER FACILITIES, WE WOULD PICK THAT UP AND DO THAT ON THEIR BEHALF.
THAT WAY, THOSE PROGRAMS DON'T. BUT THAT WON'T REALLY BE A THING.
>> IT'S NOT A CALLBACK. THEY DON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT THE CALLBACK ON THE GRANTS.
>> BUILDING SOMETHING OF THAT SIZE TAKES PARTNERING, ENCOURAGE, AND A WHOLE BUNCH OF STUFF.
QUEEN ANNE'S COUNTY HAS OVER 7,200 PEOPLE THAT ARE USING THAT FACILITY ON A REGULAR BASIS.
WE'VE DONE MARKET RESEARCH HERE IN THIS COMMUNITY TO UNDERSTAND WHAT THAT LOOKS LIKE.
WE WOULD SERVE BUILDING A YMCA IN THE DENTON CORRIDOR.
WE WOULD SERVE ABOUT 7,000 PEOPLE AS WELL.
IT DOESN'T SOLVE CHALLENGES IN THE LOWER PART OF THE COUNTY IN FEDERALSBURG, AND THIS OR THAT, BUT YOU CAN TACKLE THOSE PIECES TOO.
>> WE'RE A LITTLE UNIQUE THERE AS WELL THAT OUR POPULATION HAS SPREAD MORE.
DORCHESTER HAS CAMBRIDGE, TALBOT HAS EASTON.
[01:05:01]
>> PEOPLE FROM PRESTON TEND TO DRIVE TO EASTON AND FEDERALSBURG IS STUCK OUT THERE, BUT I THINK THE OTHER THING TOO IS WHAT WE TEND TO FIND IS WHEN YOU WHEN YOU HAVE THAT TYPE OF FACILITY AND IF YOU KNOW THERE'S PEOPLE THAT NEED ACCESS, THEN YOU SOLVE THAT THROUGH TRANSPORTATION RESOURCES OR EVEN SATELLITE-BASED PROGRAMMING TO FIGURE THAT OUT.
BUT THAT FIRST KEY PIECE IS FIGURING OUT THE SITE.
>> THAT'S WHAT WE GOT TO GET. THAT'S WHAT WE'VE GOT TO GET FIGURED OUT.
>> I APPRECIATE YOU GUYS PUTTING THIS ON YOUR LIST TO CONSIDER IT.
I THINK IT WOULD BE AN AMAZING THING FOR THE COUNTY.
I'LL TELL YOU ONE LAST JUST QUICK STORY.
WE'RE TRYING TO BUILD A NEW YMCA IN DORCHESTER COUNTY, AND IT HAS NOT BEEN AS EASY AS ONE WOULD THINK.
WE TOOK A GROUP UP TO KENT COUNTY TO SEE THAT FACILITY, AND ONE OF THE TOWN COMMISSIONERS THERE, MEGAN, WAS KIND ENOUGH TO SPEND SOME TIME WITH US, AND SHE SHARED A STORY.
SHE SAID, WE'VE STRUGGLED IN KENT COUNTY WITH POPULATION DECLINE AND GROWTH AND DEVELOPMENT.
WE HAD THREE SITES NEAR THE YMCA THAT WERE ZONED FOR RESIDENTIAL, AND WE'VE HAD ZERO INTEREST IN THAT.
THEN WHEN THE YMCA WAS BUILT, NOW, ALL THREE OF THOSE UNDER CONTRACT, AND NOW WE'RE WORKING WITH THEM FOR THREE NEW HOUSING DEVELOPMENTS BECAUSE OF THE YMCA.
I THINK PART OF IT TOO IS THERE'S AN ECONOMIC ENGINE BEHIND THE Y AS WELL BECAUSE IT GIVES YOU THAT THIRD PLACE IN YOUR COMMUNITY TO CONNECT TO OTHER PEOPLE.
NO ONE COMES INTO THE Y AND IS LIKE, I MISSED YOU TREADMILL NUMBER 7. THAT'S NOT A THING.
THEY'RE CONNECTING TO KIDS AND FAMILIES AND ADULTS, AND EVERYONE'S BUILDING RELATIONSHIPS.
I THINK IT ALSO HELPS PROVIDE ANOTHER STABILIZING RESOURCE IN A COMMUNITY THAT PEOPLE CALL HOME.
>> WELL, I THINK IT'S GOING TO BE CHALLENGING TO FIND A SITE THAT'S CLOSE TO A SCHOOL.
REALLY THE ONLY ONE THAT COULD EVEN BE ENTERTAINED WOULD BE DENTON ELEMENTARY, IF YOU WANTED TO STAY IN THE DENTON AREA, AND IT REALLY MAKES SENSE FOR IT TO BE IN DENTON, CORRECT? NOT ONE OF THE OTHER MUNICIPALITIES.
>> YEAH. I THINK WHERE THE POPULATION BASE WOULD BE KEY.
I THINK THAT AT THE TIME IT WAS A THOUGHT.
IF YOU BUILT THAT MIDDLE SCHOOL AT 404 AND YOU COHABITATED THE Y RIGHT BESIDE IT, MOST MIDDLE SCHOOL KIDS NEED A PLACE TO BE.
WE PROVIDE FREE MEMBERSHIPS TO EVERY SIXTH GRADER.
THERE'S A COUPLE HUNDRED KIDS THAT WALK ACROSS THE STREET IN EASTERN EVERY DAY.
BUT IT SOUNDS LIKE MAYBE THE PREFERRED SITE'S GOING TO BE BY THE HIGH SCHOOL.
YOU WOULD WANT TO JUST FIGURE OUT IF YOU'RE GOING TO STILL CONSIDER THE Y AT 404, HOW DO WE MAKE SURE WOULD IT BE ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE ROAD? HOW DO WE MAKE SURE WE CAN NAVIGATE PEOPLE GETTING ACCESS TO IT AND SO FORTH, AND SO ON? THEN HOW DO YOU DEVELOP THAT SITE? WHAT ELSE GOES THERE? BECAUSE THE INFRASTRUCTURE WORK THERE IS PRETTY SUBSTANTIAL AS WELL.
>> I DON'T KNOW. POTENTIAL SITES WOULD BE NEAR DENTON ELEMENTARY, ON THE PROPERTY OWNED BY THE SCHOOL SYSTEM AT DENTON, THE OLD SOUTHERN STATES PROPERTY OR DOUBLE HILLS ARE REALLY THE ONLY THREE OPTIONS?
>> YEAH. WE HAD HAVE HAD CONVERSATIONS WITH THEM.
>> OR LOCKERMAN, BUT YOU DON'T THINK THERE'S ENOUGH VISIBILITY CURVE APPEAL VISIBILITY IN THERE?
>> WELL, I THINK THE CHALLENGE WITH LOCKERMAN, WITH THE SCHOOL GOING AWAY THERE AND IF YOU DEMOED THAT AND HAVE BUILT IT THERE, IT'S KIND OF TUCKED AWAY.
HOW IS ACCESSIBILITY THERE? YOU GOT TO KNOW THE WAY TO GET THERE JUST IN GENERAL RIGHT NOW.
HOW DO YOU NAVIGATE THAT IN A WAY THAT PEOPLE CAN GET TO IT? I'M NOT SAYING THAT THAT SITE ISN'T PLAUSIBLE.
WE'VE TESTED THE 404 SITE, AND WE TESTED A SITE IN RIDGELY WITH A CHURCH THAT WE'VE HAD CONVERSATIONS WITH.
THE 404 SITE OBVIOUSLY SCORED BETTER THAN RIDGELY JUST BECAUSE OF LOCATION.
IF LOCKERMAN WAS A SPOT, THEN YOU COULD TEST THAT SITE TOO AND SEE HOW IT DOES.
THAT'S REALLY ASKING FOLKS, IF IT WAS HERE AND THESE AMENITIES AND PROGRAMS AND SERVICES WERE AVAILABLE, HOW WOULD YOU- IT'S ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF THE ROAD, IN MY OPINION, BUT IT'S KIND OF TUCKED AWAY BACK THERE.
>> ALL OF YOUR FACILITIES ARE CONNECTED TO MUNICIPAL WATER AND SEWER?
>> THE ONLY ONE THAT'S NOT A IS POKEMON BECAUSE IT'S DOWN IN THE [INAUDIBLE] THAT'S IDEAL, YES, SIR, ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU HAVE AN AQUATIC FACILITY.
>> WELL, ROBBIE, THANK YOU FOR COMING IN.
I THINK THE THING IS FRUSTRATING FOR ME IS IT SEEMS LIKE WE'VE HAD THIS CONVERSATION SEVERAL TIMES, AND WE ARE STILL IN THE SAME SPOT WE WERE.
I HAVE ALWAYS BEEN A VERY STRONG PROPONENT THAT EVERYTHING DOESN'T HAVE TO BE BUILT IN DENTON.
I THINK THAT THERE ARE OTHER LOCATIONS WE CAN LOOK AT.
>> BE HAPPY TO TEST THOSE SITES IF YOU HAVE THOUGHTS ON THEM.
[01:10:03]
>> I ACTUALLY REACHED BACK TO THE PRIOR COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR THIS MORNING FOR HIS RECOLLECTION ON THE CONVERSATION THAT WE HAD, WHEN WE CAME TO THE CONCLUSION THAT WE DIDN'T THINK THERE WAS INTEREST BY THE COUNTY COMMISSIONERS, AND HE REMINDED ME THAT I THINK IN THE BEGINNING, I THINK THERE WAS A SOURCE OF FUNDS THAT WAS GOING TO BE REQUESTED FROM THE COMMUNITY CAROLINE FOUNDATION.
I RECALL THAT THERE WAS ALSO A REQUEST OF FUNDS THROUGH ARPA.
I DON'T THINK ARPA WAS THE PROPER SOURCE OF FUNDING TO USE.
I KNOW THAT MONEY WAS USED FOR WAYS THAT I DISAGREE WITH THROUGHOUT EVERYWHERE.
BUT I DIDN'T, AT THAT POINT, AND I DON'T NOW, THINK THAT THAT WAS A LOGICAL USE FOR THAT MONEY.
>> NONE OF THE EXISTING FACILITIES THAT HAD BEEN BUILT WERE FUNDED THROUGH ANY ARPA RESOURCES.
>> BUT HERE, THERE WAS TALK ABOUT IT.
>> THE REQUEST WITH JEREMY WAS SUPPORTING THE $850,000 GRANT, AND THEN THAT THE COUNTY WOULD PROVIDE A HALF A MILLION DOLLARS TO HELP MAKE THAT GRANT VIABLE.
THERE WAS NO REQUEST ON WHERE THAT MONEY CAME FROM. IT WAS A SETTLEMENT.
>> WHEN WE TALK ABOUT THE CONTRIBUTION FROM THE COUNTY, DOES THAT CONTRIBUTION HAVE TO BE MONEY OR COULD THE LAND BE THE CONTRIBUTION?
>> WELL, I THINK THE LAND WOULD BE KEY BECAUSE IF WE'RE SPENDING MONEY ON LAND, THEN YOU'VE STILL GOT TO BUILD THE BUILDING TOO.
LIKE THE BUILDING IN QUEEN ANNE'S COUNTY WAS BUILT ON COUNTY PROPERTY.
THE BUILDING IN ST. MARY'S COUNTY IS BEING BUILT ON COUNTY PROPERTY.
THE BUILDING IN ST. MICHAEL'S IS ON SCHOOL PROPERTY.
THAT'S SMART FROM A COST STANDPOINT.
THERE'S BEEN VARYING LEVELS OF COMMITMENT FROM COUNTIES FROM A FUNDING STANDPOINT BASED ON WHAT THAT MODEL LOOKS LIKE.
IN ST. MARY'S COUNTY, IT'S A LARGER AMOUNT OF MONEY THAN SAY QUEEN ANNE'S WAS OR WHEN WE BUILT THE Y IN ST. MICHAEL'S JUST BASED UPON FUND RAISING RESEARCH THAT WAS DONE AND WHAT OUR CAPACITY TO RAISE MONEY IS.
WE KNOW THAT CAROLINE COUNTY HAS MORE LIMITED CAPACITY AS A MUNICIPALITY THAN SAY ST. MARY'S COUNTY.
>> HOW ABOUT THE KENT COUNTY MODEL? HOW DID THAT ONE? LARGE PRIVATE DONORS? FROM CORPORATIONS UP THERE.
THE COUNTY DIDN'T HAVE PUT ANYTHING IN?
>> SAME AS WHEN THE EASTON Y WAS BUILT BACK IN THE DAY, THE Y AND SALISBURY.
WHAT WE FOUND WE BUILT ST. MICHAEL'S IN 2019.
IT'S 20,000 SQUARE FEET, IT WAS EIGHT MILLION.
WE BUILT CHESTERTOWN, WHICH IS 60,000 SQUARE FEET, AND IT OPENED THOSE CONTRACTS WERE SIGNED PRE PANDEMIC, AND THAT BUILDING WAS 15 MILLION.
QUEEN ANNE'S IS GOING TO BE 25 AT 70,000 SQUARE FEET WITH AN OUTDOOR POOL.
ST. MARY'S WILL BE 22 WITH A 70,000 SQUARE FOOT BUILDING THAT IS BASICALLY A REPLICA OF KENT, BUT A LITTLE BIT BIGGER WITH NO OUTDOOR POOL.
COST ESCALATION IS PART OF IT.
TO SERVE THIS COMMUNITY APPROPRIATELY, THAT FACILITY WILL NEED TO BE IN THE 60 PLUS THOUSAND SQUARE FOOT SIZE.
THERE'S CAPACITY WITHIN THE COUNTY TO SUPPORT THAT AND THEN THERE'S FOLKS THAT HAVE, AS I SAID, THIS 2.5 MILLION DOLLAR CAME FROM NEW JERSEY OUTSIDE OF THE EASTERN SHORES AS AN ORGANIZATION THAT DEEPLY BELIEVE IN THE WORK OF THE W. THERE'S RESOURCES THERE.
I THINK THE FIRST KEY STEP IS US WORKING TOGETHER COHESIVELY AND FINDING A PIECE OF PROPERTY THAT WE CAN BEGIN TO TELL A STORY, HOW IT'S GOING TO MAKE AN IMPACT AND THEN FINDING A DONOR BASE CAN HELP US DO IT.
THEN FUNDS THAT WE CAN MOBILIZE AND RESOURCES THAT WE WORK AT THAT TOGETHER.
WE GOT $850,000 THROUGH STENY HOYER CONGRESSIONALLY DIRECTED SPENDING.
IF THAT EVER COMES BACK, YOU WOULD WANT TO DO THAT.
WEST MOORE GAVE 2.5 TO QUEEN ANNE'S.
GOVERNOR HOGAN GAVE 500 THERE, GOVERNOR HOGAN GAVE 565,000 TO CHESTERTOWN AS WELL AS SUPPORTING THE Y IN ST. MICHAEL.
THE STATE, OF COURSE, THEY'VE GOT THEIR BUDGET CHALLENGES NOW, TOO, BUT THE STATE HAS HISTORICALLY BEEN VERY SUPPORTIVE.
BECAUSE YOU'RE ON THE BACK END OF A PROJECT, SO WE'RE NOT ASKING THE STATE OR THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT TO FUND IT.
WE'RE ASKING THEM TO BE A PARTNER,
[01:15:02]
AND THAT TENDS TO WORK WELL.THEY'RE GETTING A LARGE RETURN ON INVESTMENT.
YOU'RE LEVERAGING PRIVATE DONATIONS FOR SOMETHING THAT BETTERS THE COMMUNITY? BUT I AGREE WITH YOU, MISS, COMMISSIONER PORTER.
I APPRECIATE YOUR PATIENCE AND STAYING IN OFFICE ALL THESE YEARS.
>> I DON'T KNOW HOW PATIENT I'VE BEEN, BUT I THINK IT'S PROBABLY TIME FOR US TO, AS YOU SAID, PICK A SITE AND START TELLING.
>> IF THERE ARE SITES THAT WE HAVEN'T MENTIONED TODAY THAT YOU THINK SHOULD BE REVIEWED, THEN WE SHOULD TALK ABOUT THAT AND WE CAN DO SOME MARKET RESEARCH THAT HELPS US.
WE USE A THIRD PARTY GROUP THAT CAN HELP US BETTER UNDERSTAND.
WE'RE ALL ACCUSTOMED TO DRIVING ON THE SHORE. THAT'S WHAT WE DO.
HOW DO PEOPLE FEEL ABOUT DRIVING 10 MINUTES OUT OF TOWN TO GO TO A SITE THAT MAY HAVE LAND AND ALL THE THINGS YOU NEED? WE SHOULD TEST THOSE THINGS.
WHEN WE LOOKED AT BUILDING THAT YMCA AND CENTERVILLE.
THERE WAS EVERYONE ON THE ISLAND WAS PISSED.
THEY WERE LIKE, WE'RE NOT DRIVING THERE.
THE DATA SHOWED IF YOU LIVE REALLY CLOSE TO THE BRIDGE, YOU WEREN'T COMING, 25% OF THE PEOPLE.
EVERYONE ELSE SAID, I'LL PROBABLY MAKE THE TRIP WELL, WE'RE SERVING 7,200 PEOPLE THERE.
THEY'RE COMING FROM CRUMPTON, CLOSE TO THE BRIDGE AND EVERYWHERE IN BETWEEN.
THEY HAVE YOU STUCK IT WAY DOWN IN HER LOCK, IT MIGHT BE A CHALLENGE, BUT FIGURING OUT IF THERE'S OTHER SITES TO TEST, WE SHOULD DO THAT IN THAT WAY WE WHAT THAT LOOKS LIKE.
>> I DON'T WANT YOU TO THINK THAT THIS CONVERSATION HAS I MEAN, I'M VERY PLEASED WITH THE FACILITY YOU HAVE HERE.
I KNOW IT SERVES A NUMBER OF PEOPLE. THANK YOU FOR.
>> WE SERVE ABOUT 3,000 FOLKS IN THE COUNTY ON A REGULAR BASIS A GREAT PARTNERSHIP WITH THE SCHOOL SYSTEM.
DERRICK SIMMONS SERVES ON OUR BOARD.
RICK BARTON'S JUST ROTATED OFF.
DAVID NAGEL WAS INSTRUMENTAL AND KEITH MCMAHAN IN BRINGING THE WIDE OF THIS COMMUNITY.
IT'S A COMMUNITY WE FEEL DEEPLY ABOUT AND SERVE REGULARLY, AND IT HURTS MY HEART THAT WE STILL HAVEN'T SOLVED THIS ONE, AND I'D LIKE TO DO IT BEFORE I RETIRE FOR SHARE.
I'D BE GOOD JUST SO WE HAVE IT HERE.
>> WHAT'S THE IDEAL ACREAGE, YOU'RE THINKING?
>> A LOT OF IT DEPENDS ON WHAT YOU'RE TRYING TO ACCOMPLISH, BUT IF YOU WANT TO HAVE.
>> I DON'T THINK WE COULD DO MUCH MORE THAN WHAT KENT COUNTY HAS.
I KNOW THEY'RE SMALLER, BUT MORE FINANCIAL CAPABILITIES HERE.
>> I THINK FROM A LAND STANDPOINT, IF YOU HAVE LAND THAT THE COUNTY ALREADY OWNS, IT'S NOT BEEN ALLOCATED FOR PURPOSE, I THINK THAT WOULD BE YOUR FIRST START INSTEAD OF NECESSARILY PURCHASING PROPERTY.
BUT YOU'RE GOING TO NEED THE EASTERN SITE IS SEVEN ACRES.
WE'RE ABOUT SIX ACRES IN KENT COUNTY, AND THERE'S NO FIELDS THERE.
IF YOU WANT ANY OUTDOOR SPACE, YOU NEED A LITTLE MORE THAN THAT, ESPECIALLY IF YOU'RE TRYING TO HAVE SOME COMPLIMENTARY SPACES FOR PROGRAMMING, WHETHER IT'S PICKLEBALL COURTS OR FIELDS FOR KIDS FOR PROGRAMMING, THEN YOU WANT TO TRY TO HAVE A LITTLE MORE.
>> THE 16 THAT WE HAVE IN QUEEN ANNE'S, THEY'VE BEEN ABLE TO LEVERAGE RESOURCES THAT ARE SET ASIDE FOR WHEN PEOPLE CAN'T PLANT TREES, AND SO THEY PAY THE FEE IN LIEU OF IT.
THEY'RE PLANNING THE BACK BUFFER, AND THEY'RE USING RESOURCES TO CREATE A TRAIL THERE.
>> THAT'S WHERE YOU CAN GET CREATED, SAY, HOW CAN WE REALLY.
>> YES SIR. THAT'S RIGHT. BUT JUST BECAUSE WE HAVE THE LAND THERE TO BE ABLE TO TO DO THAT.
>> WALKING TRAILS. YES, MA'AM.
THEN THOSE NEW WIVES HAVE AN INDOOR TRACK THAT GOES ABOVE THOSE GYMS. I NEVER REALLY PERSONALLY THOUGHT THEY WOULD BE THAT BIG OF A DEAL, BUT WITH THE HEAT AND COLD, THEY'RE PACKED JUST BECAUSE PEOPLE LOVE TO WALK.
WALK AND TALK, AND PROBABLY LIKE MOST OF YOU, IF I TRIED TO WALK AND TALK AND WE WERE ON A TREADMILL, I WOULD EAT IT PRETTY QUICK.
TO DO THAT ON A TRACK HAS BEEN BENEFICIAL.
THOSE OUTDOOR TRAILS, ESPECIALLY ON A DAY LIKE TODAY, PEOPLE CAN BENEFIT FROM IT?
>> THANK YOU FOR ALL YOU DOING.
I APPRECIATE YOUR PATIENCE, SIR, AND LOOK FORWARD TO WORKING WITH YOU IN WHATEVER CAPACITY YOU SEE FIT.
>> THANK YOU ALL HAVE A GOOD DAY.
>> I GUESS OUR NEXT STEP WOULD BE TO START LOOKING AT SOME POTENTIAL SITES, MAYBE CREATE A LIST, INCLUDING THE ONES THEY'VE ALREADY LOOKED AT. I'LL WORK WITH ROBBIE.
>> I'LL E MAIL YOU THE MOST RECENT MARKET STUDY THAT WAS DONE THAT SO YOU CAN SEE WHAT THAT LOOKS LIKE FOR THE 4, 4 SITE IN THE SITE ORIGINALLY.
THEN IF THERE'S OTHER SITES YOU WANT TO TEST, THEN WE CAN DO THAT TOO.
>> YOU'LL HAVE A WONDERFUL DAY.
>> YOU TOO. THANK YOU. WE'LL TAKE A FIVE MINUTE RECESS HERE.
[01:29:26]
>> I'LL CALL THE MEETING BACK TO ORDER AND WE CAN MOVE ON TO LEGISLATIVE SESSION.
[Legislative Session:]
[01:29:33]
DO I HEAR A MOTION TO GO INTO LEGISLATIVE SESSION?>> MOTION AND SECOND. ALL THOSE IN FAVOR SAY AYE.
>> AYES HAVE IT. WE'LL TURN IT OVER TO COUNTY ATTORNEY BERYL.
>> THANK YOU, COMMISSIONER. WE ARE HERE FOR THE THIRD READING WITH THE POTENTIAL TO ENACT OR AMEND LEGISLATIVE BILL 2025-007, WHICH DEALS WITH CHAPTER 175 ZONING, SPECIFICALLY, ARTICLE 5.
[01:30:04]
THIS IS AN ACT TO AMEND SECTION 175-29 WASTEWATER TREATMENT FACILITIES OF ARTICLE 5 SUPPLEMENTARY REGULATIONS OF CHAPTER 175 ZONING OF THE CODE OF PUBLIC LOCAL LAWS OF CAROLINE COUNTY BY ADDING A NEW SUBSECTION C, PROVIDING THAT A NON ACCESSORY WASTEWATER TREATMENT FACILITY MAY BE PERMITTED IN THE R RURAL ZONING DISTRICT BY SPECIAL USE EXCEPTION, PROVIDED THAT THE FACILITY MEETS CERTAIN CONDITIONS, THOSE CONDITIONS BEING THAT THE FACILITY HELD AN ACTIVE MARYLAND DEPARTMENT OF THE ENVIRONMENT STATE DISCHARGE PERMIT WITHIN THE FIVE YEARS IMMEDIATELY PRECEDING THE EFFECTIVE DATE OF ENACTMENT OF THIS SUBSECTION C, THAT THE OPERATION PROPOSED IS SUBSTANTIALLY SIMILAR IN USE AND FUNCTION TO THE FACILITY'S PRIOR OPERATION UNDER THE PREVIOUSLY ISSUED STATE DISCHARGE PERMIT.THREE, THE WASTEWATER TREATMENT FACILITY AND THE GENERATING FACILITY IT SERVES MUST BE OPERATED AND OWNED BY THE SAME PERSON OR ENTITY.
THE FACILITY IS NOT A SHARED FACILITY AS DEFINED IN THE ENVIRONMENT ARTICLE OF THE ANNOTATED CODE OR THE CORE MORE SECTION, AND FIVE ALL OTHER LOCAL STATE AND FEDERAL REGULATIONS APPLICABLE TO THE PROPOSED FACILITY ARE MET.
THIS BILL ALSO ADDS AN AMENDMENT TO THE TABLE OF USE REGULATIONS, 175 ATTACHMENT 3-4, TO ADD A NEW NOTE 4, WHICH STATES THAT CERTAIN NON-ACCESSORY WASTEWATER TREATMENT FACILITIES MAY BE PERMITTED IN THE R RURAL DISTRICT BY SPECIAL USE EXCEPTION UNDER SUBSECTION 175-29C.
THIS BILL WAS INTRODUCED ON JUNE 24TH.
THE PUBLIC HEARING WAS JULY THE 8TH, AND WE ARE HERE FOR THE THIRD READING AND YOUR CONSIDERATION OF ENACTING IT.
IF IT IS ENACTED TODAY, THIS IS AN EMERGENCY BILL, WOULD BECOME EFFECTIVE TODAY.
>> DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS? AMENDMENTS? STAFF HAVE ANY PROPOSED AMENDMENTS? THERE'S EVERYBODY GOOD WITH IT.
ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? I WOULD ENTERTAIN A MOTION TO ENACT LEGISLATIVE BILL 2025-007.
>> WELL, I'LL MAKE THE MOTION THEN.
MOTION SECOND. ALL THOSE IN FAVOR SAY AYE.
NOW WE HAVE AN INTRODUCTION AND FIRST READING OF LEGISLATIVE BILL 2025-008?
>> YES. THIS IS A LEGISLATIVE BILL THAT DEALS WITH ARTICLE 5 SUPPLEMENTARY REGULATIONS, SECTION 175-34 AGRICULTURAL AND FISHERY PRODUCTS PROCESSING PLANTS, REPEAL AND REENACTMENT.
THIS IS A BILL TO REPEAL THE EXISTING 175-34 AND TO REENACT IT WITH AMENDMENTS, CHANGING THE TEXT OF SECTION 175-34 IN THE FOLLOWING RESPECTS.
ONE, IN SUBSECTION A, CHANGING THE SECOND CONJUNCTIVE TO THE DISJUNCTIVE, AND REDUCING THE REQUIRED MINIMUM SETBACK FOR FLOUR, FEED, AND GRAIN PACKAGING, BLENDING, STORAGE, OR MILLING, FROM 500 FEET TO 200 FEET FROM ALL LOT LINES WHEN SUCH ACTIVITIES ARE PERMITTED IN THE R RURAL ZONING DISTRICT.
TWO IN SUBSECTION B, CHANGING THE FIRST DISJUNCTIVE TO THE CONJUNCTIVE SO THAT THE TEXT READS, ''ANY COMMERCIAL SLAUGHTERING AND PROCESSING OF FARM ANIMALS, FISH OR SEAFOOD SHALL BE LOCATED AT LEAST 500 FEET FROM ALL LOT LINES.'' WE'RE HAVING THE INTRODUCTION TODAY.
THE NOTICE OF PUBLIC HEARING WILL BE PUBLISHED IN THE STAR DEMOCRAT ON SATURDAY, AUGUST THE 2ND.
THE SECOND READING IN THE PUBLIC HEARING IS SCHEDULED FOR TUESDAY, AUGUST THE 5TH, THE POTENTIAL FOR ENACTMENT, AND THE THIRD READING ON THE 19 OF AUGUST.
[01:35:12]
CRYSTALS RIGHT HERE. I'LL LET HER SPEAK TO THAT.>> YES, STAFF HAS REVIEWED THIS TEXT AMENDMENT ALONG WITH THE PLANNING COMMISSION, AND WE ARE RECOMMENDING A REDUCTION IN THE SETBACK TO OUR AGRICULTURAL AND FISHERY PRODUCTS PROCESSING PLANTS, BUT ONLY TO FLOWER FEED AND GRAIN PACKAGING BLENDING, STORING, OR MILLING, NOT TO THE OTHER AGRICULTURAL PROCESSING FACILITIES.
IT HAS HISTORICALLY, SINCE WE ADOPTED ZONING, BEEN 500 FEET.
THIS IS NOT SOMETHING THAT WE GET A LOT OF REQUESTS FOR IN COMMERCIAL GRAIN FACILITIES.
A LOT OF THEM THAT WE HAVE ARE FOR THE OWNER'S OWN PERSONAL USE.
WE DO HAVE A FEW IN THE COUNTY.
OVER THE YEARS, SOME OF THOSE HAVE WANTED TO EXPAND ON THEIR EXISTING OPERATIONS AND HAVE ALWAYS NEEDED A VARIANCE BECAUSE IT'S WITHIN 500 FEET OF THE PROPERTY LINES.
WE LOOKED AT OUR OTHER AG USES IN THE COUNTY, PARTICULARLY COMMERCIAL POULTRY OPERATIONS, AND WANTED TO ALIGN THIS WITH OTHER AG FACILITIES IN THE COUNTY.
WE DID EVALUATE WHAT ZONING REGULATIONS WERE ON THE EASTERN SHORE AND OTHER COUNTIES IN TERMS OF GRAIN FACILITIES, AND THAT VARIED ANYWHERE FROM A 100-FOOT SETBACK FROM THE PROPERTY LINES TO A 300-FOOT SETBACK.
A 200-FOOT WOULD BE CONSISTENT WITH OUR POULTRY OPERATIONS.
IN ADDITION, FOR FURTHER PROTECTIONS, IT GIVES THE ABILITY FOR THESE USES TO BE EVALUATED ON A CASE BY CASE BASIS BECAUSE IT DOES REQUIRE A SPECIAL USE EXCEPTION, AND WE WOULD STILL CONTINUE TO REQUIRE THAT SPECIAL USE EXCEPTION WHERE THE BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS WOULD HEAR THOSE CASES, AND IF THERE WAS ANY REASON THAT THAT 200 FOOT SETBACK WOULD BE PROBLEMATIC TO AN ADJACENT PROPERTY OWNER IN TERMS OF DUST OR A VISUAL IMPACT, THEY COULD NEGATE THAT WITH CONDITIONS IN TERMS OF SCREENING OR DUST CONTROL, ANYTHING OF THE SORT THAT WOULD BE A PROBLEM TO AN ADJACENT PROPERTY OWNER.
>> A LOT OF OUR EXISTING GREEN FACILITIES ARE BUILT RIGHT ON THE PROPERTY LINE?
>> CORRECT. THAT'S THE ONE IN RIDGELY, HAS COME BACK AT LEAST THREE TIMES.
>> THEY WOULD STILL NEED A VARIANCE.
>> WELL, THEY WOULD ONLY BE REQUIRED IF THIS IS ADOPTED TO MEET 200 FEET VERSUS A 500-FOOT SETBACK.
IT IS POSSIBLE, DEPENDING ON WHAT THEY WOULD WANT TO EXPAND ON, THEY MAY BE ABLE TO MEET THAT.
>> ONE CONCERN THAT I HAD, AND I THINK I BROUGHT THIS UP AT PLANNING COMMISSION, WAS THE FISH OR SEAFOOD PROCESSING 500 FEET FROM LOT LINES.
THE DEFINITION OR OUR INTERPRETATION OF PROCESSING.
IF I HAVE A COMMERCIAL FISHING LICENSE, THE STATE ALLOWS ME TO PAY AN ADDITIONAL $50 FEE, AND I THINK I CAN RESELL DIRECTLY TO THE PUBLIC.
IF I WANTED TO DO THAT FROM MY HOME, AND I WAS GOING TO SHUCK OYSTERS OR STEAM CRABS TO SELL, ARE WE GOING TO CONSIDER THAT PROCESSING? WOULD I THEN HAVE TO BE 500 FEET FROM A PROPERTY LINE?
>> WE DO HAVE SOME ADDITIONAL CARVE-OUTS FOR THE FISHERY FACILITIES IF YOU HAVE YOUR OWN COMMERCIAL LICENSE.
KATHLEEN, DO YOU RECALL, I THINK WE DID THAT IN 2018.
>> IT'S BEEN A WHILE SINCE WE DID THAT, BUT WE DO HAVE A CARVE-OUT, AND WE CAN DEFINITELY EVALUATE THAT FURTHER TO SEE IF THERE'S A NEED TO LOOK AT THAT AS WELL.
>> I WOULDN'T WANT TO IMPOSE THIS ON SOMEONE IN THE CIRCUMSTANCE THAT I LAID OUT.
>> IN THIS CASE, WE'RE NOT ASKING TO CHANGE ANYTHING EXCEPT FOR GRAIN FACILITIES, BUT IF THERE IS SOME INTEREST IN EVALUATING WHAT'S REQUIRED FOR THE FISHERY, WE CAN CERTAINLY LOOK INTO THAT AND SEE WHAT THAT LOOKS LIKE.
>> THE SLAUGHTERING. IF WE HAD A START-UP LIKE HOSES OR SVERSVILLE,
[01:40:02]
OR HASTINGS OVER IN LAUREL, ALL PLACES WHERE I'VE GONE AND PURCHASED BAFER HAD PROCESSING DONE.I DON'T THINK ANY OF THOSE FACILITIES ARE 500 FEET FROM A ROAD. YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN?
>> I DON'T KNOW IF YOU'RE FAMILIAR WITH ANY OF THOSE PLACES, THAT WOULD DEFINITELY BE CONSIDERED A SLAUGHTERING.
>> TO TRACK TO COMMISSIONER REID'S POINT.
THEY HAVE A COMBINATION OF COMMERCIAL AND RETAIL.
THAT HINDERS THEM AT 500 FEET, THAT THAT REALLY HINDERS THEIR ABILITY TO DO WHAT THEY NEED TO DO?
>> YES. I THINK THE REASON FOR THE PROCESSING WITH THE GREATER SETBACKS IS WHEN YOU GET INTO THINGS LIKE SMELL, PARTICULARLY WITH FISHERY.
AGAIN, STEAMING CRABS VERSUS A SEA WATCH TYPE OPERATION IS DIFFERENT.
IT'S CERTAINLY SOMETHING WE WANT TO LOOK AT AND MAKE SURE WE CAN DISTINGUISH THEM SEPARATELY WHICH MEANS STEAMING CRABS AND SELLING STEAM CRABS VERSUS A HUGE.
>> WELL, THERE'S BEEN A PROCESS BE A LOT OF CONTROVERSY IN EASTON RECENTLY ABOUT THE ONE, AND A PICKING HOUSE.
>> YOU DON'T WANT TO HINDER THE RETAIL SIDE OF IT, BUT THE COMMERCIAL SIDE OF IT TIES TOGETHER.
WE HAVE TO BE VERY CAREFUL ABOUT THIS. YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN?
>> I DON'T THINK I WOULD IMPOSE A 500-FOOT SETBACK IF THEY HAD INTENTIONS OF OPENING A RETAIL.
>> A BUTCHER SHOP THAT YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE A RETAIL MARKET. CORRECT.
>> A COMBINATION OF RETAIL. YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN.
WHERE IF YOU'RE JUST STRICTLY COMMERCIAL, THEN I CAN UNDERSTAND THAT ASPECT OF IT, BUT NOT THE RETAIL.
>> THE INTERPRETATION OF THIS RIGHT NOW WOULD BE IF YOU WANTED TO OPEN THAT, YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO BE 500 FEET.
WE'VE GOT TO FIGURE OUT A WAY TO ADDRESS THAT.
WE'RE NOT CHANGING. THIS IS ALREADY THERE.
>> YES. THE ONLY THING WE'RE REQUESTING A CHANGE IS THE SETBACK FOR THE GREEN FACILITIES.
THAT'S IT. EVERYTHING ELSE IS ALREADY THERE.
>> DO WE DO THAT IN A SEPARATE LEGISLATIVE BILL THEN, WE JUST PASS THIS AND MAKE THIS REDUCTION FOR THE GREEN TANKS AND COME BACK BECAUSE IT'S GOING TO TAKE SOME THOUGHT.
>> ONE OF OUR THOUGHTS WERE IS WE WANTED TO WORK ON THIS WHEN WE DO OUR ZONING CODE REWRITE AFTER WE FINISH WITH THE COMP PLAN, AND THEN GOING THROUGH THAT FROM BEGINNING TO END, WHICH WE HAVE NOT DONE.
>> THAT'S GOING TO TAKE A LONG TIME.
>> IT IS GOING TO TAKE SOME TIME.
>> THERE'S GOING TO BE A LOT OF LEGISLATIVE BILLS CHANGING STUFF.
>> THE LAST TIME WE DID IT, WE JUST DID A COMPLETE OVERHAUL OF THE ZONING CHAPTER.
IT WAS A LOT OF WORK, BUT IT WASN'T MULTIPLE BILLS COMING AT YOU.
>> IT WAS A LOT FOR ME TO PROCESS FOR US TO PROCESS, TOO, ALL AT ONE TIME.
>> BUT YES, THE TIME IT TAKES TO DO THESE INDIVIDUALLY, I THINK WE'D BE MORE PRODUCTIVE IN DOING IT.
>> WELL, I THINK I PUT MORE THOUGHTS INTO IT, BUT WORKSHOPPING, YOU.
>> BACK TO YOUR OTHER ONE ISSUE THOUGH, THE FISH THERE IS I LOOKED AT THAT BALL CRYSTAL WAS TALKING.
IT'S CALLED FISHERY ACTIVITY FACILITIES.
IT HAS A DIFFERENT SET OF SETBACKS, AND WE HAD A FEW COMMERCIAL WATERMEN IN THE COUNTY WHO WANTED TO SELL ON THEIR PROPERTY ON-SITE.
>> FOR THAT, SO THAT'S GOVERNED UNDER A DIFFERENT SECTION.
>> YES. IF YOU WERE A COMMERCIAL WATERMAN, AND YOU WANTED TO STEAM YOUR CRABS AND RESELL THEM, YOU COULD ON YOUR PROPERTY, WHICH WOULD BE DIFFERENT THAN THE FULL-ON SEAFOOD PROCESSING.
>> CORRECT, WHICH IS DIFFERENT THAN LIKE AN INDUSTRIAL SEAFOOD PROCESSING FACILITY.
>> IF WE TAKE THIS OUT ABOUT THEM.
>> NO. IT'S ALREADY IN OUR CODE, SO WE'VE GOT TO HAVE SOMETHING THERE.
>> DO WE NEED TO DO A FULL REPEAL AND REENACTMENT OR JUST AN AMENDMENT TO THE SECTION A AND B?
>> AN AMENDMENT BY INTERLINEATION.
[01:45:02]
>> WHAT I THINK WE DO IS WE ADD THIS TO OUR LIST OF LEGISLATIVE ITEMS THAT WE NEED TO ADDRESS.
>> WE'RE JUST CHANGING THE GREEN?
>> THE GREEN THINGS, AND WE'LL COME BACK BECAUSE THIS IS GOING TO BE AN EXTENSIVE.
>> SOME OF THESE THINGS I THINK NEED TO BE CHANGED PRIOR TO WADING THROUGH ALL.
>> THERE'S A LOT THAT STILL NEEDS TO BE CHANGED.
>> YES. GOING THROUGH THE COMPREHENSIVE.
>> THERE'S SO MANY PEOPLE GROWING THEIR OWN BEEF NOW AND PUT ON LIVESTOCK THAT IT'S ONLY A MATTER OF TIME BEFORE SOMEBODY COMES IN AND SAYS, "HEY, MAN, I WANT TO DO THIS."
>> IT'D BE GREAT TO HAVE ONE HERE.
HONESTLY, THE PLACES ARE JUST ALL RATTLED OFF ARE EITHER IN DELAWARE.
>> THERE'S DEFINITELY A NEED HERE FOR IT.
>> DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS OR ANYTHING? NO. I'LL MAKE A MOTION TO ACCEPT THE PROPOSED LEGISLATIVE CALENDAR AND THE FIRST READING OF THE BILL AND MOVE FORWARD PER THE CALENDAR.
>> MOTION AND SECOND. ALL THOSE IN FAVOR, SAY AYE.
>> AYE. [OVERLAPPING] THE AYES HAVE IT.
>> THANK YOU. I HEAR A MOTION TO CLOSE LEGISLATIVE SESSION.
>> ALL THOSE IN FAVOR SAY AYE.
>> AYE [OVERLAPPING]. ON TO THE ACTION ITEM.
[Action Item]
WE'LL GO THROUGH THEM I GUESS ONE BY ONE.WE HAVE RESOLUTION 2025-018, WHICH IS RESCINDING RESOLUTION NUMBER 2022-010, ESTABLISHING THE PAB AND ACC.
2022-015, FIRST AMENDMENT TO THE PAB AND ACC AND 2024-020, SECOND AMENDMENT TO THE PAB ACC.
BASICALLY, WE'RE RESCINDING ALL OF THE PREVIOUS RESOLUTIONS AS IT PERTAINED TO THE PAB AND ACC BECAUSE WE JUST PASSED LEGISLATION THAT REPLACED THOSE RESOLUTIONS.
IS THERE ANY QUESTION ON THAT?
>> ALL THOSE IN FAVOR OF PASSING RESOLUTION 2025-018.
WELL, I GUESS WE GOT TO HAVE A MOTION.
I'LL MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE RESOLUTION 2025-018.
>> MOTION AND SECOND. ALL THOSE IN FAVOR SAY AYE.
>> AYE [OVERLAPPING]. NEXT UP, WE HAVE RESOLUTION 2025-020, WHICH IS THE ISSUANCE OF THE MARYLAND ENVIRONMENTAL SERVICE OF ITS REVENUE BOND TO FUND COSTS OF CELL NUMBER 5 AND CELL NUMBER 1, ALONG WITH ALL OF THE OTHER ITEMS THAT MES DISCLOSED US EARLIER WHEN THEY WERE HERE RELATING TO THE COSTS FOR MID-SHORE II REGIONAL LANDFILL.
>> I MAKE A MOTION WE APPROVE RESOLUTION 2025-020.
>> A MOTION AND SECOND. ALL THOSE IN FAVOR SAY AYE.
>> AYE [OVERLAPPING]. AYES HAVE IT.
MOVING ON TO RESOLUTION 2025-021, WHICH IS THE AMENDMENT OF THE FISCAL YEAR 2026 OPERATING BUDGET.
DANNY, YOU WANT TO GIVE US AN OVERVIEW ON THIS ONE?
>> CERTAINLY. LAST MEETING, WE HAD DR. SIMMONS AS WELL AS MS. HIGNUTT FROM THE BOARD OF ED BEFORE YOU EXPLAINING SOME OF THE UPDATED FUNDING STRUCTURE WITH BLUEPRINT, THAT MSD RELAYED TO THEM AND US ON JUNE 30TH.
WE DID NOT HAVE THAT INFORMATION BEFORE WE FINALIZED OUR BUDGET FOR OUR COUNTY BY THE SECOND TUESDAY IN JUNE.
THIS IS REALLY AMENDING THEIR TOTAL ALLOCATION TO ALIGN WITH MSD'S FINAL FIGURE.
IT IS A SMALL CHANGE OF ABOUT $41,000 THAT IS BEING REMOVED FROM CONTINGENCY AND ADDED INTO THEIR ALLOCATION LINE ITEM UNDER OUR 01330 DEPARTMENT THAT YOU'LL SEE UNDER THE BOE.
REALLY, THE TOTAL BUDGET AND DOLLAR AMOUNT STAYS THE SAME.
IT'S JUST A REALIGNING OF WHICH DEPARTMENT THAT MONEY NEEDS TO BE ASSIGNED TO.
[01:50:02]
>> I MOVE WE APPROVE RESOLUTION 2025-021.
>> MOTION AND SECOND. ALL THOSE IN FAVOR SAY AYE.
>> AYE [OVERLAPPING]. ALL THOSE OPPOSED? THE AYES HAVE IT. MY UNDERSTANDING IS WE NEED TO MAKE AN AMENDMENT TO 2025-022.
I APOLOGIZE FOR NOT TAKING A LOOK BEFORE THE MEETING.
>> THE TAX ACCOUNT NUMBER THAT IS LISTED ON THE FIRST PAGE.
IF WE WANT TO USE THE FULL TAX ACCOUNT NUMBER, LOOKS LIKE YOU'LL NEED 03- FOR THE DISTRICT IN FRONT OF IT.
>> TOP LINE WHERE IT SAYS BEARING TAX ACCOUNT NUMBER.
>> 03-024733, AND THEN DOWN HERE, WE NEED TO ADD 03-. JUST HOUSEKEEPING.
>> I MOVE WE APPROVE THE RESOLUTION WITH THAT AMENDMENT.
>> MOTION AND SECOND. ALL THOSE IN FAVOR SAY AYE.
>> AYE. [OVERLAPPING]. ALL THOSE OPPOSED? THE AYES HAVE IT.
NOW WE'RE ON TO RESOLUTION LETTER SUPPORTING
[• Resolution Letter Supporting Rural Maryland Prosperity Investment Fund Grant for BSA Seafood submitted by Bob Zimberoff, Director, Caroline County Economic Development and Tourism]
THE RURAL MARYLAND PROSPERITY INVESTMENT FUND GRANT FOR BSA SEAFOOD.THIS IS SUBMITTED BY BOB ZIMMEROFF, DIRECTOR OF ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT AND TOURISM.
BOB, DO YOU WANT TO GIVE US A RUNDOWN ON THIS ONE?
>> YOU MADE THIS YOUNG LADY SIT THROUGH ALL THIS STUFF.
>> HELLO, COMMISSIONERS. THANK YOU FOR CONSIDERING THIS LETTER.
I'M BOB ZIMMEROFF, CAROLINE COUNTY ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT AND TOURISM DIRECTOR.
WITH ME TODAY IS AMANDA WILLIAMS WITH BSA SEAFOOD, WHO I'VE BEEN WORKING WITH ON THIS GRANT APPLICATION.
THE GRANT APPLICATION IS IN TO THE RURAL MARYLAND COUNCIL.
THIS IS THE LAST PIECE THAT THEY REQUIRE FOR A FULL APPLICATION.
THEY HAVE A SCORING SYSTEM, SO IT WOULD BOLSTER THE SCORE.
WHAT IT COMES DOWN TO IS, I CALLED AND ASKED IF THEY WANTED A RESOLUTION OR A LETTER.
REALLY, THEY JUST HAVE HAD ISSUES IN THE PAST WHERE PERHAPS THE ELECTED BODY DIDN'T EVEN KNOW AN APPLICATION WAS PUT IN.
THIS IS JUST AS MUCH AN ACKNOWLEDGMENT THAT YOU KNOW ABOUT THE APPLICATION AND YOU SUPPORT IT THAN ANYTHING ELSE.
WE REQUESTED $500,000 FROM THE RURAL MARYLAND COUNCIL AS PART OF THEIR AGRICULTURAL ENTREPRENEURSHIP FUND.
IT WAS NEW AS OF THE LAST GRANTS CYCLE LAST YEAR.
THEY HAVE NEVER FUNDED THIS BEFORE, SO THEY'RE BUILDING THIS PLANE AS THEY FLY IT TOO.
I DO KNOW THERE IS INTEREST ON THE RURAL MARYLAND COUNCIL SIDE.
NO GUARANTEE THAT THE BOARD WILL SUPPORT IT.
THIS IS ALSO ONE OF THOSE GRANTS WHERE SOME GRANTS YOU REQUEST A CERTAIN DOLLAR AMOUNT, AND YOU EITHER GET IT OR YOU GET NOTHING AT ALL.
THIS ONE'S FLEXIBLE. THEY MIGHT COME BACK WITH A DIFFERENT AMOUNT.
I KNOW THAT WHEN WE DISCUSSED THIS BEFORE, YOU WERE CONCERNED ABOUT A PERFORMANCE BOND.
AMANDA IS ABSOLUTELY ON TOP OF IT.
SHE'S BEEN ABSOLUTELY ON TOP OF EVERYTHING.
VERY EASY TO WORK WITH TO THE POINT WHERE SHE'S ALREADY GOT THE PACKET AND PAPERWORK READY SHOULD THIS BE FULLY APPROVED BY THE COMMISSIONERS AND THEN THE RURAL MARYLAND COUNCIL.
AUGUST 18TH, THE WEEK OF AUGUST 18TH IS WHEN THE RURAL MARYLAND COUNCIL SHOULD LET US KNOW ASSUMING YOU GO FORWARD.
BSA SEAFOOD FOOD WILL BE READY COME MID AUGUST TO PUT IN FOR THAT PERFORMANCE BOND IF NEEDED.
>> I BELIEVE WE ONLY REQUIRE THE PERFORMANCE BOND IF THERE IS A CALLBACK PROVISION IN THE GRANT FOR NOT FOLLOWING THROUGH.
>> THAT'S THE MOST RECENT DISCUSSION.
>> YES. I HAVE YET TO SEE THE FULL TERMS IF THEY APPROVE THE GRANT, JUST HAVEN'T GOTTEN THERE YET.
BUT THAT'S MY UNDERSTANDING, TOO. THANK YOU FOR BRINGING THAT UP.
>> IT'S NOT NECESSARY UNLESS THE COUNTY'S ON THE HOOK TO PAY IT BACK SHOULD SOMETHING NOT BE FULFILLED.
>> THIS IS ONE WHERE WE WOULD BE SERVING AS A PASS THROUGH OF FUNDS.
>> SORRY, LET'S HAVE THAT CONVERSATION UPFRONT.
>> YES, I IMAGINE WE WILL BE THE AWARDING SUB GRANTING IT OUT TO BSA.
AGAIN, DEVIL IN THE DETAILS WITH THE AGREEMENT WITH THE STATE, BUT I'M SURE THAT'S SOMETHING THAT LEGAL AND I CAN WORK THROUGH WITH BOB AND MAKE SURE WE'RE PROTECTED ONE WAY OR ANOTHER.
>> THIS IS FOR THE OLD METAPHAS PROPERTY?
>> IN ALL LIKELIHOOD, YES. IT'S NOT 100%.
OF COURSE, IT HAS TO BE SCREENED THROUGH THE TOWN ORIGINALLY.
THERE'S SOME MDE CONCERNS, A NEW USE THAT IT WASN'T FORMERLY USED AS.
THAT IS THE INTENT MOVING FORWARD ON IT,
[01:55:02]
BUT LIKE SO MANY THINGS, THERE COULD BE SOME HANGUPS.>> ARE YOU LEASING THIS BUILDING OR WOULD IT BE TO PURCHASE THE BUILDING?
>> PROBABLY A QUESTION YOU HAVEN'T THOUGHT OF YET, BUT HAS THERE BEEN ANY THOUGHT ABOUT WHAT THE USE OF THE FIELD BEHIND IT WOULD BE, BECAUSE I KNOW THAT THE AREA BEHIND IT IS USED AS A FOOTBALL FIELD.
>> CURRENTLY, WE PLAN TO LEAVE IT.
IF WE WERE TO PURCHASE IT, WE WOULD LEAVE IT AS A FOOTBALL FIELD.
THE SPACE CURRENTLY, IT'S SOMETHING THAT WE CAN GROW INTO, BUT IT WAS A LITTLE BIT LARGER THAN WE WERE ANTICIPATING, AND SO IN THE NEAR FUTURE, I DON'T SEE A NEED TO GO AND USE THE FOOTBALL FIELD FOR FURTHER DEVELOPMENT.
>> WOULD CONTROVERSIAL SMELLS OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT? THIS IS TO ADD COLD STORAGE TO PURCHASE A PROPERTY AND THEN ADD REFRIGERATION.
>> THE MAJORITY OF WHAT WE DO IS COLD STORAGE.
WE DO A LITTLE BIT OF FISH CUTTING ON SITE.
BUT IN REGARD TO THE SMELL, WHAT I CAN SAY IS THAT WE'VE BEEN IN A RESIDENTIAL COMMUNITY IN GRASONVILLE FOR 20 YEARS, AND WE'VE NEVER HAD A COMPLAINT.
WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE LAYOUT OF THE BUILDING AND WHAT WE'RE PROPOSING AS FAR AS A CUTTING ROOM, I THINK IT'S LESS THAN 10% OF THE OVERALL SIZE, AND IT'S IN THE CENTER OF THE BUILDING.
THEN THE LAST THING THAT I WILL SAY IS THAT THE FISH THAT WE DO CUT, WE ACTUALLY SELL.
THERE'S NO REASON FOR US TO KEEP IT ON SITE.
I KNOW THAT THAT IS THE TOPIC OF CONVERSATION.
>> WHEN YOU DO CUT, YOU HAVE THE REMNANTS.
>> EVERYTHING GOES INTO A LARGE VAT THAT IS HELD IN REFRIGERATION BECAUSE IT'S ACTUALLY USED FOR PET FOOD.
>> DO YOU HAVE TO GO FROM THERE INTO A REFRIGERATED TRUCK TO A PET OUT THERE?
>> TO THE FACILITY WHERE IT GETS PROCESSED.
>> I VISITED THEIR CURRENT FACILITY JUST TO GET THIS GRANT DONE AND SINCERELY, VERY, VERY SUBTLE SMELL IN THE PARKING LOT.
THEY DO ALL THEIR PROCESSING AND COLD STORAGE, WHICH REALLY GOES A LONG WAY TO PREVENTING OUTDOOR SMELLS.
LIKE SHE SAID, THE WASTE IS TRANSPORTED.
IT'S NOT STORED OUTSIDE IN TRASH CANS.
>> HAVE YOU MET WITH THE TOWN YET?
>> WE DID A COUPLE OF MONTHS AGO.
WE WANT TO BRING EVERYONE IN ON THIS PROJECT.
WE DON'T WANT TO JUST GO FORWARD WITHOUT WORKING WITH EVERYONE AND GETTING EVERYONE'S PERSPECTIVE BECAUSE WE HAVEN'T BUILT A FACILITY OF THIS SIZE BEFORE.
SO WE INTEND ON, AS WE MOVE FORWARD, WORKING CLOSELY WITH THE TOWN.
>> I TAKE IT, BOB, YOU MET SCOTT WARNER IN ALL OF THIS TOO.
>> YES. SCOTT ACTUALLY IS THE CHAIRMAN OF THE BOARD THAT'S GOING TO BE MAKING THE DECISION ON THIS.
I HESITATE TO SPEAK FOR HIM WITH HIM BEING IN THAT ROLE.
BUT I DO KNOW HE SAID HE UNDERSTANDS WHAT THIS MEANS TO THE COMMUNITY AND HE'S EXCITED ABOUT THE APPLICATION.
>> I'M ON YOUR BOARD, THAT'S WHY I WAS ASKING.
>> WE HAVE COMMISSIONER SEARS IN THE BACK FROM RIDGELY.
BRAD, ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH THIS AND ANY CONCERNS?
>> I'M HEARING SOME NEW THINGS ABOUT THE DISPOSAL OF FISH WASTE, BUT OTHERWISE, I'M ON BOARD WITH IT.
>> BE GOOD TO SEE THE BUILDING USED FOR SOMETHING BACK CREATING JOBS AGAIN.
ALL OF THAT WOULD FALL UNDER SPECIAL EXCEPTIONS OR PERMITS ISSUED BY THE TOWN, I'M SURE, ANY REQUIREMENTS.
>> I'LL MAKE A MOTION WE APPROVE RESOLUTION LETTER SUPPORTING RURAL MARYLAND PROSPERITY INVESTMENT FUND GRANT FOR BSA SEAFOOD.
>> MOTION AND SECOND TO ALLOW ME TO SIGN THE LETTER OF SUPPORT FOR THIS GRANT.
>> AYE [OVERLAPPING]. ALL THOSE OPPOSED? THE AYES HAVE IT.
[02:00:05]
>> ON TO OUR QUITE LENGTHY CONSENT AGENDA TODAY.
[Consent Agenda]
ANY QUESTIONS, CONCERNS, COMMENTS ABOUT ANYTHING ON THE CONSENT AGENDA? COMMISSIONER BARTZ? COMMISSIONER PORTER DO YOU HAVE ANY?>> I DON'T HAVE ANY QUESTIONS. NO.
>> COMMISSIONER SEARS, DID YOU WANT TO SPEAK ABOUT THE AMENDMENT AGREEMENT FOR THE LAW ENFORCEMENT SERVICE? YOU AS WELL HAVE SAT AND LISTENED TO THIS LIVELY MEETING.
>> WELL, IT'S BEEN EDUCATIONAL, I CAN ASSURE YOU.
BUT NO, I JUST WANTED TO SAY THAT, WELL, THE AMOUNT OF WORK THAT WENT INTO THIS AMENDMENT BOGGLES THE MIND FOR A THREE-PAGE DOCUMENT.
BUT I DO WANT TO COMMEND THE SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT, SPECIFICALLY SHERIFF BAKER, FOR WORKING WITH US AND BEING AN INVALUABLE RESOURCE THERE.
WE'VE BUILT, OVER THE LAST YEAR, A VERY SOLID RELATIONSHIP WITH THE CAROLINE COUNTY SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT.
DURING THE RECENT ELECTION CYCLE, I VISITED VIRTUALLY EVERY REGISTERED VOTER IN TOWN, AND IN THE INSTANCES WHERE THE MATTER CAME UP, THE TOWN WAS VERY MUCH IN FAVOR OF THE WORK THAT THE SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT IS DOING FOR US.
AGAIN, I JUST APPRECIATE THE COLLABORATION THAT THE TOWN HAS HAD WITH CAROLINE COUNTY, JUST THE ABILITY TO PICK UP THE PHONE AND TALK TO ANYBODY AND GET GOOD ANSWERS IS INVALUABLE IN MY EXPERIENCE.
UNLESS THERE ARE ANY QUESTIONS, I WILL TO BE EXCUSED.
>> I HAVE NO QUESTIONS. THANK YOU, BRAD.
>> SHERIFF, YOU'RE GOOD? YOU WANT TO ADD ANYTHING?
I DIDN'T SAY ALL THAT BECAUSE HE [OVERLAPPING].
>> HE SNUCK IN. YOU DIDN'T KNOW HE WAS THERE.
I'LL MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE THE CONSENT AGENDA.
>> ALL THOSE OPPOSED? THE AYES HAVE IT.
[County Administrator’s Report]
>> YES, I HAVE SEVERAL I GUESS A LONGER LIST THAN USUAL JUST TO PROVIDE YOU SOME BRIEF UPDATES, ALTHOUGH THEY ARE BRIEF.
DANNY AND I ARE IN THE PROCESS OF SCHEDULING A MEETING WITH EAST COAST PROPERTY MANAGEMENT TO TALK ABOUT THE STATUS OF DAYSPRINGS APARTMENTS IN TERMS OF THE CURRENT MANAGEMENT AND HOW THINGS ARE GOING OUT THERE WHILE WE'RE WORKING ON THE OTHER ISSUE OF TRANSFERRING THE PROPERTY.
WE'RE SHOOTING FOR MONDAY OR TUESDAY OF NEXT WEEK.
>> SOUNDS LIKE EARLY NEXT WEEK, YES.
>> WEDNESDAY. THAT'S GOING ON.
I WON'T SAY TOO MUCH ABOUT THIS BECAUSE COMMISSIONER BARTZ WAS THERE WITH ME LAST NIGHT, BUT COMMISSIONER BARTZ AND I ATTENDED THE FEDERALSBURG TOWN HALL MEETING LAST NIGHT TO TALK ABOUT THE CURRENT STATE OF AFFAIRS IN FEDERALSBURG.
IT WAS ENCOURAGING IN THAT I THINK THAT THEY ARE IDENTIFYING THE PROBLEMS AND LAYING OUT PLANS TO FIX THE PROBLEMS. BUT I THINK THEY HAVE AN UPHILL BATTLE, MAYBE A LONG WAY TO GO, BUT THEY'RE DEFINITELY, AT LEAST FROM WHAT I CAN SEE, GOING IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION.
THIS WEEK, OUR OPEB BOARD, POST-EMPLOYEE BENEFITS BOARD, IS MEETING AGAIN TO DISCUSS THE POST RETIREMENT HEALTH INSURANCE OPTIONS.
WE HAD REQUESTED AN ACTUARIAL STUDY BASED ON A DRAFT PROPOSAL WE CAME UP WITH ON HOW OUR EMPLOYEES, I DON'T KNOW IF HOW IS THE RIGHT WORD, BUT WHAT KIND OF HEALTHCARE BENEFITS OUR EMPLOYEES WOULD GET IN RETIREMENT IN TERMS OF WHAT SHARE THE EMPLOYEE WOULD PAY VERSUS CAROLINE COUNTY, THE EMPLOYER, HOW MANY YEARS OF SERVICE WOULD BE REQUIRED IN THAT.
ONCE WE RECONVENE AS A GROUP, I THINK WE'LL PROBABLY COME UP WITH A GAME PLAN AND BRING THAT FORTH FOR SOME DISCUSSION.
[02:05:05]
I KNOW COMMISSIONER BARTZ WILL ASK ME, SO I'M GOING TO BRING THIS UP.COUNTY ADMINISTRATORS MEETING FOR EASTERN SHORE COUNTY ADMINISTRATORS IS THIS FRIDAY AT LUNCH, AND I'LL TALK TO ADMINISTRATORS HELLER AND MOHN ABOUT THE REGIONAL DETENTION CENTER, AND HOPEFULLY, BE ABLE TO PROVIDE YOU WITH AN UPDATE AT THE NEXT COMMISSIONERS MEETING.
COMMISSIONER BARTZ WILL ALSO TALK A LITTLE BIT MORE ABOUT THIS, OR HE MIGHT, BUT I WANTED TO BRING IT UP.
ON THE EIGHTH, WE WENT TO CHOPTANK MARINA, AND PARTICIPATED IN FILMING A COMMERCIAL OR SOME THING THE MIDSHORE REGIONAL DEVELOPMENT COUNCIL.
IT WAS SUPER HOT. I THINK IT WAS AT LEAST 100 DEGREES WHEN WE WERE WALKING AROUND OUT THERE, BUT WE GOT IT DONE, SO WE'LL BE LOOKING FORWARD TO SEE HOW THAT PLAYS OUT.
I THINK THEY SAID THEY HAD 80 MINUTES OR SOMETHING OF FOOTAGE.
>> EIGHT MINUTES, BUT I FORGET HOW MANY.
>> BEFORE EVERYBODY, AND THEN THEY GOT TO BOIL IT DOWN OR SOMETHING.
WE'LL JUST BE LIKE A LITTLE BLIP ON THE RADAR IF WE'RE LUCKY.
>> THEN THE LAST THING I WANTED TO MENTION IS, I DID GO TO THE NACO CONFERENCE, THE NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF COUNTIES IN PHILADELPHIA.
I GUESS IT WAS A WEEK AND A HALF AGO.
I HAVE NOT ATTENDED THAT CONFERENCE BEFORE.
I PROBABLY WON'T ATTEND IT AGAIN.
IT'S NOT REALLY IN MY PLANS. IT WAS A GOOD CONFERENCE.
I GOT A LOT OUT OF IT IN TERMS OF PARTICULAR HUMAN RESOURCES AND SOME IDEAS FOR EMPLOYEE DEVELOPMENT AND EMPLOYEE MORALE AND THOSE KINDS OF THINGS.
BUT IT SEEMED MORE OF A HIGHER LEVEL POLICY CONFERENCE.
FOR ME, I'M LOOKING FOR MORE OF A PRAGMATIC NUTS AND BOLTS CONFERENCE, IF I'M GOING TO A CONFERENCE AT ALL. BUT IT WAS GOOD.
THE DOWNSIDE WAS IN PHILADELPHIA, THAT WEEKEND, IT WAS BASICALLY OVER A WEEKEND, THERE WAS NO TRASH COLLECTION OR PICKUP, SO THERE WERE PILES OF TRASH EVERYWHERE ON THE STREET, WHICH WAS LOVELY TO NAVIGATE.
BUT NEVERTHELESS, I BROUGHT BACK SOME GOOD INFORMATION.
THANK YOU FOR THAT OPPORTUNITY. THAT'S ALL I HAVE.
>> COUNTY COMMISSIONER OPEN DISCUSSION PERIOD. COMMISSIONER BARTZ.
[County Commissioners’ Open Discussion Period]
>> YES. TO REITERATE ADMINISTRATOR FREEMAN, WE DID ATTEND TOWN OF FEDERALSBURG.
THEY DO SEEM COMMITTED INTO FIXING THE SITUATION DOWN THERE.
WE'LL SEE WHAT HAPPENS WHEN THE AUDIT TAKES PLACE.
ME AND KATHLEEN DID GO DOWN TO THE CHOPTANK MARINA, AND IT WAS FOR THE NATIONAL ROYAL COUNCILS, AND I THINK THE MARYLAND ROYAL COUNCILS, AND THEY WANTED TO DO AN EIGHT-MINUTE VIDEO PROMOTING MIDSHORE REGIONAL COUNCIL.
THEY WERE ALL OVER THE DORCHESTER, TALBOT, AND THEN THEY COME TO CAROLINE.
WE WENT DOWN TO THE CHOPTANK MARINA.
WE JUST DID A Q&A AND JUST RANDOMLY TALKED, AND THEY DID A BUNCH OF, THEY CALL THEM B SHOTS, I DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT MEANS. JUST RANDOM VIDEO.
I DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT MEANS IN VIDEO TERMS.
>> ANYWAY, THEY WERE JUST DOING EXTRA VIDEO AROUND.
THEY STAYED THERE FOR ANOTHER HOUR TAKING VIDEO OF THE CHOPTANK MARINA.
WE TOLD THEM WHAT, THE ROYAL MARYLAND MONEY, THE DIFFERENT THINGS WE SPENT IT ON AND WHAT MIDSHORE REGIONAL COUNCIL DOES FOR CAROLINE COUNTY.
JUST HOW THEY START A PROJECT FROM START TO FINISH, WENT INTO THAT, FEW DETAILS.
A COUPLE OF THINGS I WANT TO MENTION IS, I GOT TO COMMEND THE TOWN OF DENTON FOR FOY ROAD.
>> IT LOOKS VERY WELL. THEY DID A GOOD JOB ON THAT.
IF THE TOWN'S LISTENING, KUDOS TO YOU.
I WANT TO THANK ROBIN, RIVER ROAD LOOKS PHENOMENAL. IT LOOKS GOOD OUT THERE.
FROM WHAT I'VE SEEN AROUND THE COUNTY, I KNOW THE RAIN HAS BEEN VERY BAD, AND IT'S HARD TO KEEP UP WITH THE GRASS.
IT'S NOT LIKE USUAL YEARS, BUT JUST IT SEEMS LIKE WE'RE FIXING PIPES.
MY WIFE SAID THE OTHER DAY, SHE SAYS, WELL, HOW MANY PEOPLE DOES THE COUNTY ROADS OUT WORKING FROM EVERY ROADS SHUT DOWN? I THOUGHT THAT WAS A GOOD THING THAT AT LEAST PEOPLE ARE PAYING ATTENTION THAT WE ARE TRYING TO MAKE PROGRESS.
I KNOW WE CAN'T GET TO EVERYTHING, BUT I THINK WE'RE EATING AN ELEPHANT ONE BITE AT A TIME. THAT'S ALL I GOT.
[02:10:06]
>> I'M VERY HAPPY WITH THE RESURFACING OUT THERE WITH THE TURN SIGNAL FINALLY THERE, AND I THINK IF NOTHING ELSE, WE'VE MADE THAT ROAD SAFER FOR KIDS GOING TO SCHOOL, AND I THINK THAT'S THE KEY.
I TOOK A RIDE OUT THERE THE OTHER DAY, AND IT'S VERY WELL DONE.
THANK YOU FOR YOUR DIRECTION ON THAT.
I ATTENDED THE OPENING LAST WEEK FOR THE CHOPTANK HEALTH FACILITY IN FEDERALSBURG.
THEY'VE GOT THINGS IN THAT BUILDING THAT I WAS NOT EVEN AWARE THAT THEY WERE GOING TO BE ABLE TO DO FROM BOTH A MEDICAL AND A DENTAL STANDPOINT.
I DID A TOUR WITH CONNIE, WE HUNG OUT THERE, AND I WAS VERY IMPRESSED WITH THE TOUR WITH THE FACILITIES, AND AGAIN, THE SERVICES THAT THEY OFFER.
I THINK IT'S A TREMENDOUS FACILITY AND BENEFIT TO THE COUNTY.
>> REAL QUICK, IF I COULD JUMP IN THERE.
I REALLY APPRECIATE WHAT CHOPTANK COMMUNITY HEALTH DOES AS WELL.
THEY ARE PROBABLY ONE OF THE BEST ALLIED PARTNERS THAT WE HAVE AND THEY'RE HEADQUARTERED HERE, WHICH IS GOOD, AND I THINK THEY DO A LOT OF GOOD IN CAROLINE COUNTY, AND I THINK CAROLINE COUNTY IS ACTUALLY A PRIORITY TO THEM, HIGH UP ON THE RANK.
>> I WAS AMAZED BY THE DENTAL FACILITIES.
THE PERSON WHO GAVE US THE TOUR, I THINK, WAS THE DENTIST THERE WHO WAS EXCITED, AND SHE EVEN TOLD US THAT THEY'RE BRINGING PATIENTS IN FROM OTHER PLACES BECAUSE THEY HAVE FACILITIES THERE THAT THAT THEY CAN WORK WITH.
CONGRATULATIONS TO THAT BOARD, SARAH RICH AND HER BOARD, AND THE JOB THEY DID THERE.
FINALLY, THE LAST WEDNESDAY I THINK IT WAS, WE HAD THE FIRST MACO INITIATIVES LEGISLATIVE INITIATIVES COMMITTEE MEETING.
LONG DAY. WE STARTED OUT WITH ABOUT 50 INITIATIVES THAT WE'VE GOT TO NARROW DOWN TO FOUR.
WE'LL SEE, BUT THE NEXT ONE WILL BE DONE AT MACO, BUT WE DID GET A LITTLE BIT OF A HEAD START ON THAT.
>> SHARP ROAD PARK IS THROUGH THE PERMIT AND APPROVAL PHASE.
WE HAD A PRE CONSTRUCTION MEETING WITH MARYLAND DEPARTMENT OF ENVIRONMENT YESTERDAY.
I WAS THERE WITH MARK FROM RECREATION & PARKS AND MYSELF.
THAT PROJECT IS READY TO GET KICKED OFF.
I PLAN TO DO IT MOSTLY THROUGH DONATION.
I PLAN ON DONATING MY TIME AND EQUIPMENT TO DO AS MUCH OF THE WORK AS I CAN TO BUILD THIS AND STRETCH THE $800,000 THAT WE HAVE AVAILABLE AS FAR AS WE CAN, WHICH I BELIEVE IT WILL MOSTLY GO TOWARDS THE LIGHTS, FENCING, AND OTHER MATERIALS WORKING WITH ROBIN.
I'LL BE IN CONTACT WITH ROBIN AS FAR AS GETTING THE STONE THAT WE'RE GOING TO USE FOR THE PARKING LOT AND THE PIPE.
THERE'S SOME PIPE THAT HAS TO GO IN DIFFERENT AREAS, SO WE'RE GOING TO PIGGYBACK AND WORK THROUGH ROBIN ON CONTRACTS THAT HE HAS FOR MATERIAL SUPPLY TO TRY TO BUILD THIS THING AS CHEAP AS WE CAN AND STRETCH IT OUT.
I BELIEVE WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO CLOSE THE WALKING PATH BACK THERE BEHIND CHOPTANK COMMUNITY HEALTH WHILE THE CONSTRUCTION IS GOING ON TO BE SAFE.
SOME OF THAT PATH NEEDS TO BE RELOCATED, AND THERE'S GOING TO BE DIRT MOVING AND CONSTRUCTION ACTIVITY GOING ON IN THAT AREA.
WE MAY HEAR A LITTLE BIT OF BLOWBACK FROM THAT PATH BEING CLOSED.
I BELIEVE THREE QUARTERS OF THE PATH THAT IS THERE WILL STILL BE ABLE TO BE USED.
IT'LL JUST BE THE AREA ON THE PROPERTY THAT WAS RETURNED TO US BY THE TOWN.
[02:15:06]
ANYWAY, DENTON LITTLE LEAGUE IS HAPPY.PRESIDENT OF DENTON LITTLE LEAGUE, KYLE BRINGMAN, KNOWS ABOUT IT, AND HE'S HAPPY TO HAVE THE ADDITIONAL FACILITIES, HOPEFULLY, BY NEXT SEASON. WE'LL SEE.
>> WELL, I THINK YOU ALL JUST MENTIONED, YOU SHOULD BE COMMENDED FOR YOUR DONATION FOR YOUR TIME.
I THINK PEOPLE PROBABLY NEED TO REALIZE THE AMOUNT OF WORK YOU AND YOUR FAMILY HAS DONE AT DENTON LITTLE LEAGUE PARK.
A LOT OF THAT DIRT OUT THERE WAS DONE BY THEM.
>> I KNOW YOU'RE NOT GOING TO SAY IT, BUT I WILL.
I APPRECIATE YOU. THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
>> [OVERLAPPING] BUT I'LL TELL YOU.
>> WELL, WE'RE GOING TO TRY TO STRETCH IT AND BUILD A LONG OVERDUE UPDATED FACILITY HERE IN THE COUNTY FOR EVERYBODY TO USE.
WE WILL NOW HAVE OUR PUBLIC COMMENT PERIOD.
[Public Comment]
IS THERE ANYONE IN THE AUDIENCE WHO WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK? NONE SEEN. I WOULD ENTERTAIN A MOTION TO GO INTO CLOSED SESSION UNDER SECTION,[Meeting Adjourns]
WELL, I'LL SAY GENERAL PROVISION OF ARTICLE 3-305B7 TO CONSULT WITH COUNSEL TO OBTAIN LEGAL ADVICE.ROLL CALL VOTE. COMMISSIONER PORTER?
>> COMMISSIONER BREEDING? AYE.
>> AYE.
* This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.