[00:01:33]
>> GOOD MORNING, EVERYONE, AND WELCOME TO THE DECEMBER 2ND, 2025, CAROLINE COUNTY COMMISSIONER MEETING, WHICH IS NOW IN ORDER.
FORTUNATELY, I DO NOT SEE REVEREND TARA BUTTON HERE THIS MORNING.
IF WE COULD ALL JUST RISE FROM PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE.
>> I PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE TO THE FLAG OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA AND TO THE REPUBLIC FOR WHICH STANDS ONE NATION UNDER GOD, INDIVISIBLE WITH LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL.
[Call to Order: Invocation— Rev William Tarbutton, The Blind Evangelist; Pledge of Allegiance; Agenda Review]
>> THE BOARD MET IN CLOSED SESSION ON NOVEMBER 25TH UNDER GENERAL PROVISIONS,
[President’s Closed Session Report Out]
ARTICLE 3-305B1, TO DISCUSS A PERSONNEL MATTER RELATED TO A CONTRACTUAL EMPLOYEE AND RECEIVE A DEPARTMENT UPDATE.THE BOARD RECEIVED UPDATES FROM STAFF AND DISCUSSED A CONTRACTUAL AGREEMENT.
THE ATTENDEES WERE THE COMMISSIONERS, KATHLEEN FREEMAN, DANIEL FOX, JENNIFER RIBY, STEWART BARREL, AND CHARLES SCOTT.
MOVING ON, I SEE DR. SIMMONS AND MISS HIGNETT, ARE HERE FROM THE BOARD OF ED, SO I WILL HAVE THEM GO FIRST WITH THE PRESENTATION OF THE BOARD OF ED FISCAL YEAR 2026 BUDGET ADJUSTMENTS. GOOD MORNING.
>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING THIS MORNING.
>> GOOD MORNING, PRESIDENT BREEDING, COMMISSIONERS BARTS AND PORTER.
WE ARE HERE REGARDING THE FY 25 BUDGET TO CLOSE OUT.
MISS HIGNETT HAS INFORMATION TO WALK THROUGH WITH YOU REGARDING THE BUDGETARY CHANGES WE NEEDED TO MAKE AS WE WERE FINALIZING OUR BUDGET, GOING INTO OUR AUDIT, CATEGORICAL CHANGES THAT WE GO THROUGH AT THE END OF THE YEAR EVERY YEAR WITH THE COMMISSIONER.
SO WITH THAT, I WILL PASS TO MISS HIGNETT.
WALK THROUGH THAT AND ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS THAT YOU MAY HAVE.
>> GOOD MORNING. STARTING WITH THE REVENUES,
[Dr. Simmons, Superintendent & Ms. Hignutt, CPA, Caroline County Public Schools]
WE HAD A FEW ADJUSTMENTS THAT WE HAD TO MAKE DUE TO REVENUES IN DIFFERENT CATEGORIES, EITHER COMING IN LESS THAN WE HAD BUDGETED OR BEING HIGHER THAN BUDGETED.THE FIRST ONE IS THE REVENUES FROM THE STATE OF MARYLAND WERE $580,000 LESS THAN WE EXPECTED.
THIS IS DUE TO CHANGES IN HOW THEY WERE FUNDING PRIVATE PRE-K. WE WERE EXPECTING TO RECEIVE THE STATE SHARE OF THAT BASED ON THE FIGURES WE WERE SENT IN THE BEGINNING OF FY 25, BUT THEN THE STATE ENDED UP PAYING THAT DIRECTLY TO PRIVATE PROVIDERS RATHER THAN SENDING IT THROUGH US.
OTHER SOURCES ENDED UP COMING IN ABOUT $684,000 HIGHER THAN EXPECTED.
THIS IS JUST DUE TO HIGH INTEREST RATES.
WE RECEIVED MORE INTEREST INCOME THAN WE HAD ANTICIPATED.
THEN, RESTRICTED REVENUE WAS ABOUT $1.6 MILLION LESS THAN BUDGETED.
THIS IS JUST DUE TO REVENUES NEEDING TO EQUAL THE EXPENSES IN OUR RESTRICTED GRANTS.
THERE ARE FOUR CATEGORIES THAT HAD OVERAGES.
THIS IS OPERATION OF PLANT WAS ABOUT $415,000 OVER BUDGET.
THIS IS DUE TO UTILITY COSTS BEING HIGH THAN BUDGETED.
MAINTENANCE OF PLANT WAS ABOUT $74,000 HIGHER THAN BUDGETED DUE TO REPAIRS THAT WERE HIGHER THAN BUDGETED.
FIXED CHARGES WERE ABOUT $183,000 OVER.
[00:05:03]
WE MADE A CONTRIBUTION TO OUR OPEB ACCOUNT AT THE END OF THE YEAR, SO THAT PUT US A LITTLE BIT OVER AND FIXED CHARGES.THEN CAPITAL OUTLAY WAS ABOUT $1.8 MILLION OVER.
THAT WAS DUE TO COSTS THAT WERE NOT BUDGETED, RELATED TO CONSULTANTS FOR THE LOCKER AND PROJECT, YEAR-END PURCHASES WE MADE, AND PAYING OFF THE LEASE FOR THE SPORT SERVICES CENTER.
BUT OVERALL, OUR REVENUES WERE STILL OVER EXPENDITURE OF ABOUT $1.2 MILLION.
>> I HAVE ANY QUESTIONS? THE $580,000 THAT WENT TO THE PRIVATE DAYCARES.
THAT IS A DIRECT SUBSIDY TO THEM, OR HOW IS THAT WORKING?
>> I BELIEVE SO. MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT THE STATE OF MARYLAND PAYS THE PRIVATE PREC PROVIDERS OF CAROLINE COUNTY A PORTION OF MONEY.
THAT MONEY WAS SUPPOSED TO BE SENT TO US AS A PORTION OF OUR STATE REVENUE, AND THEN WE WOULD PAY IT BACK TO THE STATE OR TO THE PRIVATE PROVIDERS.
>> THIS WAS FOR THE PRIVATE PROVIDERS WHO PARTICIPATE IN THE BLUEPRINT PRE-K EXPANSION PROGRAMS. NOT ALL PROVIDERS, BUT THOSE WHO PARTICIPATE IN THE PROGRAMS THAT ARE BLUEPRINT-RELATED.
>> THE STATE ENDED UP JUST PAYING THEM.
>> WHAT WOULD A PRIVATE PROVIDER HAVE TO DO TO BE ABLE TO QUALIFY FOR THESE PAYMENTS?
>> THERE'S A LIST OF QUALIFICATIONS.
USUALLY STARTS, THEY HAVE TO BE A CERTAIN EXCELS RATING.
THEY HAVE TO MEET A CERTAIN RATING WITH THEIR STAFFING AND OTHER PIECES.
I'M NOT AN EXPERT IN THAT AREA, COMMISSIONER PORTER, BUT I KNOW THEY HAVE TO HAVE A CERTAIN EXCELS RATING AND THEY HAVE TO BE WILLING TO PARTICIPATE IN THE STATE PROGRAM.
THERE ARE CERTAIN REQUIREMENTS THAT IF YOU DO THAT LEVEL OF EDUCATION OF STAFF MEMBERS WHO PARTICIPATE IN THE PROGRAM, THERE ARE CERTAIN PAY REQUIREMENTS FOR THOSE PROVIDERS.
THERE ARE CERTAIN REQUIREMENTS FOR TAKING KIDS THAT THEY MAY NOT HAVE THEM HAVE TO DO IF THEY'RE A PRIVATE PROVIDER ON THEIR OWN.
THERE ARE MORE REQUIREMENTS OF THEM TO DO IT, BUT THE MONEY IS THERE IF THEY WANT TO.
A LOT OF PRIVATE PROVIDERS HAVE NOT JUMPED ON THE OPPORTUNITY, AND I DON'T WANT TO PRETEND TO KNOW THEIR WORLD FOR WHY THEY HAPPEN, BUT I KNOW IT'S A LOT OF HOOPS FOR THEM, AND A LOT OF PRIVATE PROVIDERS ACROSS THE STATE HAVE NOT JUMPED THAT.
>> WELL, AS YOU KNOW, WE'RE FACING A SITUATION HERE WHERE, WITH A PRIVATE PROVIDER THAT IF YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO JUMP THROUGH HOOPS TO STAY IN BUSINESS.
I'D BE CURIOUS TO TALK TO YOU A BIT MORE ABOUT THAT OFF.
>> IN PRIVATE. I DON'T HAVE MANY QUESTION.
>> THE ONLY QUESTION I HAVE IS, AND IT'S A GOOD QUESTION.
JUST ON THE THE SALARIES FOR INSTRUCTIONAL COSTS.
IT'S ABOUT OVERALL BETWEEN THE TWO, IT'S ABOUT $3.1 MILLION BETWEEN THE TWO INSTRUCTIONAL SALARIES AND OPERATIONAL OTHER INSTRUCTIONAL COSTS.
WHAT'S IT'S A BIG DIFFERENCE FROM WHAT YOU BUDGET FOR? I JUST IT'S GOOD FOR YOU.
I'M JUST ASKING, WHAT WAS THE BIG DIFFERENCE THERE FOR THE INSTRUCTIONAL SALARIES?
>> THE AMOUNT THAT'S STILL THERE IN THE BUDGET AFTERWARDS, YOU MEAN, OR THE TOTAL?
>> USUALLY COMES INTO IF WE HAVE POSITIONS THAT DON'T GET FILLED.
THEN WITH EVERY BUDGET, I DON'T SAY PAD, BUT YOU GIVE YOURSELF A CUSHION.
IF YOU NEED EXTRA POSITIONS DURING THE YEAR IN CERTAIN AREAS, INSTRUCTIONAL SALARIES HAS OUR MOST NUMBER OF EMPLOYEES THAT FIT UNDER IT.
THAT'S USUALLY OUR E LARGEST DAY.
IT WAS A BIG BIG DISCREPANCY THAT'S ALL.
>> NO ONE HAS ANY OTHER QUESTIONS.
WE CAN MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE THE REVISED OPERATING BUDGET FOR FY 25.
>> MOTION AND SECOND. ALL THOSE IN FAVOR SAY AYE.
>> ALL THOSE OPPOSED. THE AYES HAVE IT.
>> ABSOLUTELY. I'LL BE HAPPY TO TRY TO GET SOME ANTHERS.
>> NEXT UP, WE HAVE OUR CONSTRUCTION TRADES BOARD WITH
[Construction Trades Board]
A DISCUSSION OF A HVAC CODE REQUIREMENT.[00:10:01]
>> MR. HAYMAN, HOW ARE YOU DOING?
THANKS FOR HAVING US BEFORE YOU GUYS.
THIS IS AN ONGOING THING WE'VE HAD FOR QUITE SOME TIME.
AND WE COME BEFORE YOU THIS MORNING.
CURRENTLY, THE STATE ISSUES LICENSE FOR ELECTRICIANS, PLUMBERS, AND HVAC MECHANICS.
THE COUNTY IS TASKED WITH THE RESPONSIBILITY OF MAKING SURE EVERYBODY'S DOING WHAT THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO DO AS FAR AS THE CODE AND WHATNOT.
BUT CURRENTLY, THE COUNTY DOES NOT HAVE ANY REQUIREMENTS FOR HVAC, LICENSE REGISTRATION, WHAT HAVE YOU, OR INSPECTIONS.
THE FIRST THING THAT WE WOULD LIKE IS TO START BEING ABLE TO REQUIRE PERMITS AND INSPECTIONS FOR HVAC WORK.
AFTER SOME DISCUSSION, WE'VE COME UP WITH SOME CRITERIA WE THINK SHOULD BE INSPECTED AND SOME THINGS THAT WE THINK SHOULDN'T BE PERMITTED AND OR INSPECTED.
NUMBER 1 ITEM FOR INSPECTIONS WOULD BE INSTALLATION OF HVA SYSTEMS AND NEW RESIDENTIAL CONSTRUCTION AND COMMERCIAL CONSTRUCTION AS WELL.
UNIT REPLACEMENTS OR CHANGE-OUTS, WHICH I ACTUALLY TOLD YOU WRONG, MR. PORTER.
DUCKWORK REPLACEMENT OVER 50%.
IF YOU REPLACE MORE THAN 50% OF YOUR EXISTING DUCTWORK, HAVE THAT INSPECTED, AND ALSO, INSTALLATION OF A NEW CENTRAL HVAC SYSTEM IN AN EXISTING DWELLING THAT HAS NO PREVIOUS SYSTEM.
IF YOU HAD A BOILER AND YOU REPLACED AND PUTTING NEW HVAC, HE HEAT PUMP IN WOULDN'T HAVE YOU.
WORK THAT WOULDN'T REQUIRE A PERMIT WOULD BE SERVICE OR REPAIR WORK IF YOU HAD TO REPLACE EXISTING PIECE OF EQUIPMENT AND REPAIR IT.
MANY MINI SPLIT INSTALLATIONS THAT ARE ONLY BEING USED AS SUPPLEMENTAL HEATING AND COOLING, BECAUSE THERE ARE A LOT OF INSTANCES WHERE PEOPLE HAVE A ROOM THAT THEY'RE JUST PUTTING A MINI SPLIT IN TO SUPPLEMENT WHAT'S IN THAT ROOM.
THOSE ARE THE THINGS THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT AS FAR AS THE PERMITS AS INSPECTIONS.
THE SECOND ITEM THAT WE HAVE IS ADOPTION OF THE 2021 INTERNATIONAL MECHANICAL CODE OR IMC, BECAUSE THE COUNTY, AGAIN, THEY HAVE THE RESPONSIBILITY OF SETTING.
WHAT'S THE BEST TERM HERE? A STANDARD FOR WHAT'S BEING DONE AND INSTALLED, AND THIS GIVES THE INSTALLERS THE STANDARD TO WORK BY.
THIS IS ALSO WHAT WOULD BE INSPECTED BY INSPECTION AGENCY, AND SO FORTH.
THE THIRD ITEM IS CURRENTLY THERE IS NO LICENSE OR REGISTRATION IN A COUNTY FOR A HVAC CONTRACTORS.
WE'D LIKE TO SEE THAT DONE AND FOLLOW THE SAME STANDARD FOR PLUMBING AND ELECTRICAL, WHICH THE ELECTRICAL WOULD ALSO NEED TO BE REVISED.
CURRENTLY, WE HAVE PLUMBING AND ELECTRICAL IN THE CODE.
NOW, THERE'S A DIFFERENCE IN TERMINOLOGY NOW, ESPECIALLY WHEN IT COMES TO ELECTRICAL.
THE STATE HAS ADOPTED A STATE-WIDE LICENSE, AND THE LOCAL JURISDICTIONS CAN NO LONGER ISSUE A LICENSE, BUT THEY ARE ALLOWED TO ISSUE A REGISTRATION, WHICH JUST ALLOWS YOU TO WORK IN THAT COUNTY JURISDICTION, MUNICIPALITY, SO ON AND SO FORTH.
CURRENTLY, AS IT STANDS IN OUR CODE, THAT IS STILL IN OUR CODE, BUT EVERYTHING IS LISTED AS LICENSE.
THAT WOULD HAVE TO ALL BE CHANGED FROM LICENSE TO REGISTRATION.
THAT WOULD MAKE A STANDARD ACROSS THE BOARD FOR PLUMBING, ELECTRICAL, AND HVAC, IF YOU GUYS ARE SO MOVED.
>> I GOT ANY QUESTIONS FOR HER?
>> WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THIS FOR OVER THE YEARS.
I THINK THE BIGGEST CONCERN THAT I HAVE, AND I'M SURE IT'S PROBABLY SHARED BY MY FELLOW COMMISSIONERS HERE, IS PLACING THE BURDEN ON HOMEOWNERS FOR MORE PERMITTING AND MORE INSPECTIONS.
I REALIZED THAT WE HAVE SOME PEOPLE WHO COME IN AND DO SOME WORK AND THEN TAKE OFF AND DON'T DO IT PROPERLY.
IF I JUST WANT TO BE CLEAR, NEW CONSTRUCTION, I DON'T REALLY HAVE A PROBLEM WITH WHERE I'M HAVING A PROBLEM IS REPLACEMENT OF AN EXISTING UNIT.
I JUST HAD THE UNIT REPLACED AT MY HOUSE.
THE PERSON THAT DOES THAT WORK WOULD HAVE TO BE FIRST OF ALL, WOULD HAVE TO BE REGISTERED NOW, CORRECT?
>> THEN THEY WOULD HAVE TO GET A PERMIT TO REPLACE MY EXISTING UNIT.
THEN IT WOULD BE SUBJECT TO BE INSPECTED?
[00:15:02]
>> WHAT WOULD THE INSPECTION FEE BE FOR THAT?
>> IT WOULD BE COMPARABLE TO THE ELECTRICAL INSPECTION AND PLUMBING INSPECTION.
IT'S AROUND TO SAY AROUND $100 FOR THE INSPECTION FEE.
FOR A CHANGE, I WOULD JUST BE A ONE-TRIP INSPECTION BASICALLY AT THE END OF THE JOB.
>> SO ERIC, WHAT ARE WE TRYING TO ACCOMPLISH HERE? I GUESS THAT WOULD BE MY QUESTION.
BY IMPLEMENTING THIS, WHAT ARE WE TRYING TO DO?
>> THERE'S TWO THINGS. SAFETY BEING THE NUMBER ONE.
BECAUSE EVEN REPLACING A UNIT, IF YOU GET AN UNQUALIFIED PERSON, THEN THEY HAVE A TENDENCY.
THERE'S TWO THINGS WITH THAT AIR CONDITIONING SYSTEM.
YOU ARE REPLACING YOUR EXISTING SYSTEM.
NOW ONLY HAVE THE SIZE OF YOUR DUCK WORK, YOUR FREE ON LINES, AND WHATNOT, BUT YOU ALSO HAVE THE ELECTRICAL PORTION OF THAT, AS WELL.
SOME OF THESE UNITS, AND I'VE SEEN IT IN THE PAST, AND I'M SURE LEVI HAS SEEN IT, WHERE A UNIT IS BEING REPLACED, AND THEY JUST TIE INTO THE EXISTING WIRE, BUT THE EXISTING WIRE IS TOO SMALL FOR THIS NEW UNIT.
THE OTHER PART IS, BECAUSE OF THE ENERGY CODES, HVAC SYSTEMS ARE YOUR BIGGEST ENERGY COST IN YOUR HOME.
THIS WOULD HELP COMPLY AND MAKE SURE THAT THAT WAS COMPLIANT WITH THE ENERGY CODES.
THOSE ARE THE TWO BIG REASONS FOR THIS.
>> IF YOU HAD YOUR UNIT REPLACED, AND THE INSPECTION WAS DONE, AND THE INSPECTION FOUND THAT THE WORK HAD NOT BEEN DONE PROPERLY, AND THE HVAC GUIDE HAS TAKEN OFF.
THEN THE HOMEOWNER IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE ADDITIONAL WORK TO BRING IT IN COMPLIANCE AND ANOTHER INSPECTION.
>> IN ALL FAIRNESS, THEY SHOULDN'T GET PAID UNTIL IT'S FINAL INSPECTED.
>> BUT IT HAPPENS. IT DOES HAPPEN.
>> YOU FALL SHORT. I MEAN, YOU GET A BILL.
>> BUT IF YOU DO A CHANGE OUT AND YOU HAVE SOME GUY DOWN THERE WHO DON'T KNOW WHAT HE'S DOING, AND YOU GET THE FLU, AND THEY RUN IT WRONG, AND IT KILLS THE WHOLE FAMILY.
I'VE SEEN THAT QUITE A BIT WHERE FLUS HAVE BEEN PUT IN WRONG BEEN PUT IN WHERE THEY JUST FALL APART, THEY FORGET THE GLUE, THINGS LIKE THAT.
THAT'S WHAT, FIRST DATE INSPECTIONS.
THEY'RE GOING TO CHECK ALL THAT.
THEY'RE GOING TO MAKE SURE THAT WHEN THEY LEAVE, IT'S THE WAY IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE FOR A MANUFACTURER.
>> WE'RE TALKING ABOUT PRIMARILY A SAFETY ISSUE?
>> BECAUSE YOU KNOW AND I KNOW WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN WITH THE THREE OF US.
THE NEXT TIME WE WALK OUT THE DOOR, PEOPLE ARE GOING TO SAY, WELL, YOU'RE NOW YOU'RE MAKING, NOW I GOT TO HAVE AN INSPECTION. NOW I'VE GOT TO DO THIS.
OUR ANSWER IS GOING TO BE THAT IT'S GOING TO BE FROM A SAFETY STANDPOINT, AND ALSO TO MAKE SURE THAT THE INSTALLATION IS DONE PROPERLY, THAT'S GOING TO GET YOU THE BEST BANG FOR YOUR BUCK WHEN YOU TURN YOUR THERMOSTAT ON.
>> COMMISSIONER BARKS? I MEAN, I'VE HAD MULTIPLE FAMILY MEMBERS OVER THE PAST THAT HAD AC UNITS REPLACED, SWITCHED OVER AND IT WAS NEVER CHECKED, AND NEXT THING YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT WORKING RIGHT AT ALL.
I THINK WE DON'T HEAR ABOUT IT AS MUCH.
WE DON'T HEAR ABOUT IT AS MUCH, BUT I THINK IT HAPPENS MORE OFTEN THAN NOT WHERE IT'S NOT CHECKED OUT.
I UNDERSTAND THE SAFETY POINT ISSUE OF IT.
FOR THE DUCT WORK, 50%, I MEAN, WHY THAT RATIO OF 50% DUCT WORK?
>> EVERY ONCE IN A WHILE, YOU'LL HAVE TO RUN LIKE A NEW FLEX OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
WE DIDN'T WANT SOMEBODY TO HAVE TO BE INSPECTED AND BURDENED UPON THAT.
BUT IF YOU'RE REPLACING MORE THAN 50%, AND MORE LIKELY YOU'RE PROBABLY REPLACING ALL OF IT.
YOU JUST DON'T WANT IT WHERE IT'S HOOKED TOGETHER WRONG, AND THEN IT FALLS APART.
NEXT THING, YOU'RE BLOWING HALF THE HEAT AND AIR CONDITIONER IN THE ATTIC OR IN THE CROSS BASE OF THE HOME. IT'S AN ENERGY PROBLEM.
>> AFTER THE INSPECTIONS ARE DONE, WHAT WOULD BE ISSUED? I MEAN, YOU'D HAVE TO GET SOME TYPE OF A CERTIFICATE SAYING THAT YOU'D ISSUE SOMETHING TO THEM CERTIFYING THAT IT WAS DONE PROPERLY.
>> WELL, THE PERMIT BEING CLOSED OUT WOULD BE THERE.
WE WOULD LEAVE A VISUAL RECORD, A STICKER ON SITE WITH A LITTLE BIT OF PERMIT NUMBER AND THINGS LIKE THAT ON THERE.
IT'D BE THE EXACT SAME PROCESS AS ANY OF THE OTHER INSPECTIONS, JUST MECHANICAL.
>> WHAT'S YOUR GUESSING ESTIMATE OF TIME? I MEAN, LOOK, IF THAT THING IS INSTALLED, I'M TERMINATED ON.
I MEAN, SO THEY'RE NOT GOING TO HAVE TO WAIT FOR YOU TO COME OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT?
IF THEY PUT IT IN, AND THEY CALL ME AND IF YOU CALLED ME TODAY AT 8:59, I'LL BE THERE TODAY.
[00:20:06]
09:00 IS MY CUTOFF.WE DO SAME-DAY INSPECTIONS FOR ALL OF THEM.
>> TALKING ABOUT THE 2021 CODE, WHAT'S DIFFERENT IN THIS CODE, AND WHAT'S THE MAJOR DIFFERENCES IN THE CODE IN THE 2021 CODE TO WHAT WE HAVE NOW?
>> WELL, THE CODE REALLY CONCERNS ME BECAUSE THE CODE IS DRIVING UP THE COST OF BUILDING HOUSES TO THE POINT WHERE PEOPLE CAN'T AFFORD IT, EITHER.
>> THAT'S MORE ON AN ELECTRICAL CODE AND ENERGY CODES THAN IN THIS MECHANICAL CODE.
>> I DON'T FRANKLY GIVE A RIP WHAT THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY IS DOING.
I CARE ABOUT CAROLINE COUNTY, AND WHAT IT WORKS IN WHEREVER THAT CODE'S CREATED MAY NOT WORK HERE AS WELL.
I THINK I'VE TALKED TO CRYSTAL ABOUT THAT, TOO.
I THINK THEY'VE GOT TO GO THROUGH IT WITH A FINE-TOOTH COMB AND CROSS OUT A LOT OF THINGS THAT AREN'T GOING TO APPLY OR ARE TOO ONEROUS.
>> I DON'T THINK I'LL LEAVE THAT TO WANT TO LEAVE BY AND ADAM.
>> THERE'S LIKE THE THREE BIG MAIN THINGS THAT GOES TO RA INSULATION.
IT GOES TO YOU HAVE TO PUT LOCKING CAPS ON OUTDOOR UNITS, SO YOU DON'T HAVE YOUR PEOPLE THAT ARE HUFFING REFRIGERANT, THAT IS HAPPENING MULTIPLE TIMES AROUND HERE.
THE OTHER ONE CEILING OF THE DUCTWORK.
THAT WAY, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE NOT IT'S SEALED PROPERLY, YOU'RE NOT BLOWING AIR.
>> BUT OTHER THAN THAT, I MEAN, IT'S THE STANDARD NOW, IS WHEN YOU GO, YOU CAN'T EVEN GET THE OLD RAP. YOU'RE GETTING OUT ANYWAY.
>> I MEAN, THIS IS JUST FOR THE CANONICAL CODE PART STUFF.
>> IT'S NOT ADOPTING THE CRAZY STUFF.
>> WE UNDERSTAND THE ISSUE IN THE PREVIOUS ADOPTION OF THE INTERNATIONAL BUILDING CODES SPRINKLERS AND ALL THAT, BUT THAT'S NOT.
WE DON'T HAVE THOSE WORRIES WITH THIS CODE.
ALL THE REST OF THE BOARD MEMBERS HERE THEY'RE ON BOARD WITH THIS?
>> ACTUALLY, IT WAS A UNANIMOUS VOTE.
>> BACK TO THE HVAC INSPECTION REQUIREMENTS, I THINK WE ALSO HAVE TO CONSIDER HOW MUCH ADDITIONAL WORK THIS IS ON PLANNING AND CODES TO GO THROUGH THIS ENTIRE PROCESS.
WE SHOULD DEFINITELY BE DOING IT.
PERSONALLY, I THINK IT SHOULD BE OPTIONAL IF I WANT TO PUT A NEW HVAC SYSTEM IN MY HOUSE.
I CAN COME IN AND GET A PERMIT, GET THE INSPECTION, AND ALL THAT STUFF, BUT I WOULD RATHER SEE RETROFITS TO BUY A HOMEOWNER.
AT LEAST FOR NOW, WE EXEMPT THAT FROM THE PERMIT.
I MEAN, YOU HIRE A REPUTABLE PERSON.
IF YOU GO OUT, THERE IS SOME RESPONSIBILITY OF THE HOMEOWNER TO MAKE SURE THEY HIRE SOMEONE WHO THEY CAN TRUST TO DO IT.
I DON'T WANT TO OVERLOAD PLANNING AND CODES WITH ALL OF THAT, AS WELL, AT LEAST NOT RIGHT OUT OF THE GATE.
WHERE I AM WITH THIS IS I'M OKAY WITH PERMITTING AND INSPECTING NEW CONSTRUCTION, NEW ADDITIONS.
BUT IT'S ALSO VERY DIFFICULT TO POLICE.
COME OUT AND PUT ONE IN MY HOUSE.
HOW IS ANYBODY GOING TO KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON, UNLESS THEY SEE MY ATTICS EMPTIED OUT INTO THE FRONT YARD SO YOU CAN GET UP THERE AND ACTUALLY INSTALL THE STUFF? IT'S GOING TO BE MORE DIFFICULT FOR PLANNING CODES TO POLICE AS WELL.
YOU'VE GOT TO LOOK AT THAT, HOW FAIR IS IT TO EVERYBODY, IF SOME PEOPLE HAVE A BUDDY THAT'LL DO IT, AND NOT HAVE TO GO THROUGH THE PERMIT PROCESS, BUT I DON'T, SO I'VE GOT TO GO THROUGH THE WHOLE THING.
FOR NEW CONSTRUCTION, I THINK ABSOLUTELY.
I THINK THERE'S BEEN TOO MANY PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN SHORT-SHIFTED BY DEVELOPERS, BUILDERS OUT OF THE GATE.
I CERTAINLY THINK THAT MAKES SENSE.
AS FAR AS THE LICENSING REQUIREMENT, I THINK AS LONG AS WE DO IT FOR ALL THE TRADES, HVAC, ELECTRICAL, AND PLUMBING, KEEP THE FEE TO A MINIMUM.
STAFF TAKING TIME TO LOOK UP WHETHER OR NOT THE PERSON WHO'S INSTALLING IS REGISTERED IN THE STATE OF MARYLAND.
IT'S A WAY FOR US TO COMPENSATE OURSELVES FOR TAKING THOSE FEW MINUTES AND SAYING, HEY, ADX ELECTRIC IS REGISTERED BY THE STATE OF MARYLAND.
[00:25:01]
> YES. CURRENTLY, SINCE WE NO LONGER DO LICENSES FOR ELECTRICIANS AND PLUMBERS, BEFORE WE TAKE A REQUEST FOR AN INSPECTION, WE MAKE SURE THAT THEY ARE PROPERLY LICENSED AT THE STATE LEVEL.THAT'S BASICALLY COMPENSATING US FOR THAT.
I MEAN, IT'S A MINIMUM AMOUNT OF TIME YOU LOOK IT UP ON THE STATE DATABASE, BUT THAT'S STILL SOMETHING STAFF GOT IN.
>> THEY KEEP TRACK OF LICENSES AT THE STATE.
IF WE REQUIRE AN INSPECTION FOR HVAC, WE WOULD CERTAINLY ENSURE THAT WE PROCESS THAT REQUEST.
THEY WERE PROPERLY LICENSED BY THE STATE.
>> A MINIMUM PERMIT FEE, I THINK, AS LONG AS WE KEEP THE FEES, I GUESS THE FEES WILL BE SET AT BUDGET TIME, DANNY. THAT'S WHEN WE'LL SET THESE.
>> YES, SO I'M GOOD WITH THAT.
AS FAR AS THE BUILDING CODE, I THINK, AS LONG AS YOU GUYS LOOK THROUGH IT AND MAKE SURE THERE'S NOT ANY CRAZY REQUIREMENTS THAT ARE GOING TO DRIVE UP THE COST UNNECESSARILY ON OUR CONSTITUENTS, I'M GOOD.
>> HOW WOULD THERE BE HOW WOULD WE GO ABOUT PHASING THIS IN? I MEAN, I KNOW BACK PRIOR WHEN WE DID THE SPRINKLER SYSTEMS, WE WOULD SAY WHEN YOU APPLIED FOR SOMETHING, I MEAN, THAT WOULD COVER NEW CONSTRUCTION.
WE NEED TO GET OUT SOME REALLY SOME INFORMATIONAL CAMPAIGN HERE FOR PEOPLE AND LET THEM KNOW. WE WOULD RECOMMEND.
I MEAN, IF WE DON'T IMPLEMENT THE PERMITTING ON RETROFIT, I'M TALKING ABOUT, NOT NEW CONSTRUCTION, BUT WHAT WOULD BE THE BEST WAY TO DO THAT?
>> WE HAD TALKED ABOUT GETTING THAT INFORMATION OUT ONLINE OR ON THE WEBSITE, BUT IT ALSO WOULD BE AT THE TIME WHEN SOMEBODY COMES IN.
I'M SURE, CRYSTAL, YOUR OFFICE GETS CALLS THAT SAY, HEY, I'M GETTING READY TO DO THIS. DO I NEED A PERMIT?
>> AT THAT POINT, THEY'RE GOING TO GET THAT.
MAYBE WHAT WE DO IS WE JUST SAY, AS A PART OF THE REGISTRATION, LEVON, WHEN YOU REGISTER, IF YOU GET A RETROFIT JOB OR A REPLACEMENT JOB, MAYBE WE PUT IN THERE PART OF THAT REGISTRATION, THE CONTRACTOR MUST NOTIFY THE HOMEOWNER THAT THEY HAVE THE OPTION TO GET INSPECTED BY THE COUNTY IF THEY WANT TO DO THAT.
MAYBE HAVE THE CONTRACTOR DISCLOSE THAT REQUIRES A CONTRACTOR TO DISCLOSE TO THE HOMEOWNER THAT IF YOU WANT TO HAVE MY WORK INSPECTED, WE CAN GET THIS PERMIT FOR THE REPLACEMENT OF YOUR UNIT.
THAT IS AN OPTION FOR YOUR OWN PROTECTION, AND LEAVE IT UP TO THE HOMEOWNER.
>> I MEAN, FOR ME, I WOULD WANT TO DO IT.
I MEAN, I KNOW WHO PUT MINE IN, BUT I WOULD WANT TO DO IT BECAUSE, FOR ONE THING, WOULD IT ALSO INVOLVE OR TRIGGER A WARRANTY ISSUE? I MEAN, BECAUSE IF I GOT A WARRANTY WITH IT, THE FIRST THING I'M GOING TO LOOK AT FROM THE WARRANTY STANDPOINT WOULD BE, WELL, DID YOU GET SOMEBODY LICENSED IN, SO MAYBE WE [OVERLAPPING].
>> A LOT OF THE TIME, THE EQUIPMENT MANUFACTURERS REQUIRE THE INSTALLER TO BE CERTIFIED AND INSTALL THEIR PRODUCT.
THAT'S HANDLED WITHOUT GOVERNMENT INVOLVEMENT, RIGHT?
>> WE HAVE WARRANTY HOURS OF TRAINING A YEAR.
>> I THINK THE NOTIFICATION PROCESS FOR HOMEOWNERS OR UNIT CHANGE-UP WILL BE A LITTLE DIFFERENT THAN HOW WE HANDLED THE SPRINKLER BECAUSE THE SPRINKLER WAS REQUIRED ON NEW CONSTRUCTION.
EVERYBODY'S REQUIRED TO GET THEIR BUILDING PERMIT FOR THE NEW CONSTRUCTION, AND WHAT WE DID FOR THAT WAS WE HAD A FORM THAT PROVIDED THE INFORMATION THAT THE HOMEOWNER WOULD HAVE TO SIGN AS PART OF THE PERMIT PROCESS TO SAY THEY WERE AWARE.
>> YOU HAD TO CERTIFY THAT YOU HAD GOTTEN THE PRICE FOR THE START.
WHAT WAS YOUR OPTION TO DO IT?
>> I WAS AN OPTION. IN THIS CASE, THE HOMEOWNERS, UNLESS THEY CALLED US TO INQUIRE, [OVERLAPPING].
>> I THINK THAT'S NECESSARILY APPLYING FOR SOMETHING FOR A CHANGE OUT.
>> THAT BURDEN WOULD ALSO GO ON THE HVAC COMPANY. THE LICENSEE.
AGAIN, THAT'S IMPORTANT TRADE-WIDE BETWEEN THE DIFFERENT TRADES OF HAVING THOSE REGISTRATIONS, THAT WAY YOU CAN GET THE INFORMATION OUT TO THOSE GUYS THAT ARE TRADING IN THE COUNTY.
OF ANYTHING THAT DIFFERS FROM JURISDICTION TO JURISDICTION.
>> THIS PROBABLY ISN'T THE CORRECT WAY TO SAY, BUT I WANT TO SEE THE BURDEN PUT ON THE COMPANY MORE THAN I WANT TO SEE A BURDEN PUT ON THE HOMEOWNER.
>> THAT'S WHERE THE BURDEN IS, [OVERLAPPING] IT WILL DEFINITELY BE ON THE COMPANY.
>> I THINK WE PHASE. I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH DOING IT.
>> THAT'S THE WHOLE PURPOSE OF A LICENSE OR REGISTRATION IS PUTTING A BURDEN ON THAT TRADESMAN.
>> I MEAN, AS I SAID, THE OTHER THING IS TOO, SOMEBODY SLIPS IN AND CHANGES OUT MY UNIT.
>> A LOT OF THEM ARE BEHIND THE HOMES WHERE THEY'RE NOT I SEE THEM.
[00:30:01]
I MEAN, IT CAN BE DONE.IT'S GOING TO BE VERY HARD FOR US TO ENFORCE IT.
>> WE'RE NOT WORRIED AS MUCH ABOUT THAT.
NOW WE CAN'T HANDLE EVERYTHING.
BUT IT WOULD MAYBE GIVE SOME MORE QUALIFICATIONS TO SOMEBODY, LIKE THE HOMEOWNERS' INSURANCE COMPANIES.
THAT THEY WENT IN A FRIEND'S HOUSE RIGHT HERE IN THAT.
THEY WENT RIGHT IN THERE, THAT POOR BOY'S HOUSE, AND THEY HOOKED THE FLU UP.
>> HE CALLS US OUT THERE. HE SAID, MAN, IT SMELLS AND THERE'S NO SMELL TO IT, BUT HE JUST FELT THAT IT WAS WEIRD.
HE WENT UNDERNEATH THERE AND HE'S ON THE PHONE WITH ME AND I SAID THE PIPES HOOKED UP. HE SAID, WHAT PIPES?
>> EIGHT O'CLOCK AT NIGHT, I'M DRIVING HER TO HIS HOUSE CROSS PACE, AND SURE ENOUGH.
THERE WAS AN ORIGINAL ONE THERE.
ALL THEY HAD TO DO WAS TIE HIM WITH SOME SHORT PIPE AND CUPS.
HE COULD HAVE KILLED HIM. THAT'S WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO ELIMINATE.
I KNOW THAT YOU'RE NOT GOING TO STOP EVERYBODY.
WITH CHANGE OUTS, AND THAT'S FINE, BUT YOU GET A HOMEOWNER'S INSURANCE COMPANY COMING IN THERE.
MORE THAN LIKELY THEY'RE PROBABLY GOING TO WANT TO PULL A PERMIT BECAUSE THEY'RE PROBABLY WORKING FROM SOMEWHERE ELSE.
>> HOW MANY CHANGE OUT? YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT A LOT OF WORK, A LOT OF PERMITS TO BE PROCESSED.
THAT'S WHAT I'M THINKING TOO, THE IMPACT ON PLANNING AND CODES.
>> THE OTHER COUNTIES WE DEAL WITH EVERYTHING'S ONLINE.
THEY WANT TO KNOW EVERYTHING, AND THEN IT'S NEGOTIATED THERE.
EASTON IS THE ONLY ONE THAT'S A LITTLE. YOU GOT TO WAIT FOR THEM.
>> I'VE HEARD YOU GOT TO WAIT TWO WEEKS, AND WE'RE NOT GETTING ANYWHERE CLOSE TO THAT.
>> THAT'S A GOOD TIME TWO WEEKS.
>> YOU JUST PULL THE PERMIT, AND THEN YOU KNOW YOU'VE GOT IT PULLED, AND TABA COUNTY IS THE SAME WAY.
YOU PULL IT, YOU GO DO YOUR JOB.
THEN YOU TELL THEM THEY COME INSPECT IT.
YOU'RE GOOD TO GO. THERE'S NORMALLY NEVER ANY PROBLEMS.
>> I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, LEVI, BUT, THE WAY I THINK I WOULD HIRE YOU OR I'D HIRE RICK CONNOR AND I KNOW IT WAS HOOKED UP AND NOT HAVE PAY FIRST STATE 100 BUCKS.
[LAUGHTER] BUT, IT'S ANOTHER $100, AND IT'S ANOTHER PROCESS.
IT'S MORE WORK. THERE ARE RAMIFICATIONS THROUGH THE GOVERNMENT AS WELL.
MAYBE WE ROLL THIS OUT ABSOLUTELY WITH THE NEW CONSTRUCTION, AND WE CAN REVISIT IF WE CONTINUE TO HEAR HORROR STORIES, MAYBE THE REGISTRATION WILL CLEAN A LOT OF IT UP TOO, BY MAKING SURE THAT THE PEOPLE THAT ARE DOING THE WORK ACTUALLY ARE REGISTERED IN THE COUNTY AND WE TRACKING.
>> THAT'S PART OF IT. YOU'RE NOT GOING TO CATCH EVERYBODY.
WE'VE HAD THIS DISCUSSION BEFORE WE HAD WITH A STORY.
YOU'RE NOT GOING TO CATCH ANYBODY.
IF WE CALLED EVERYBODY, WE CAN RUN HIM OUT OF BUSINESS, AND WE WOULDN'T NEED HIM.
WE WOULDN'T NEED POLICE IF YOU COMPLETELY STOP CRIME.
IT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. BUT WHAT YOU'RE GOING TO DO IS TRY TO CURB IT AND CONTROL AS MUCH OF IT AS YOU CAN.
THIS PROCESS WILL HELP CONTROL THAT.
RIGHT NOW, CAROLINE COUNTY, AS FAR AS HVACS WILD WEST.
ANYBODY'S COMING HERE AND DOING IT.
EVEN IF IT'S MINIMAL, YOU HAD SOME RESTRICTIONS, AND GUYS ARE GOING TO START, WAIT A MINUTE.
I CAN'T GO THERE AND DO THAT NOW.
WORD WILL GET OUT ON THE STREET AS WELL.
>> YEAH. WHAT DO WE OFFICIALLY NEED TO DO TODAY? IS THIS JUST A DISCUSSION? WE DON'T NEED TO MOVE AND VOTE ON ANYTHING YET? IS THIS TO GIVE DIRECTION OR?
>> GIVE DIRECTION TO HOW TO MOVE FORWARD.
WE'RE LOOKING AT THREE THINGS, REGISTRATION OF ELECTRICIANS, PLUMBERS, AND HVAC.
>> I THINK WE'RE GOOD ON THAT.
I THINK EVERYBODY AGREES THAT WE DO THAT, KEEP THE FEE MINIMAL, ENOUGH TO COVER STAFF.
>> WE CAN ESTABLISH THE FEE DURING THE BUDGET PROCESS.
>> PRETTY MUCH EVERY OTHER COUNTY AT LEAST ON THE SHORE IS DOING THIS ALREADY.
IT'S A MATTER OF DORCHESTER COUNTY CONTRACTOR COMES IN HERE, DOESN'T HAVE TO DO IT, BUT A CAROLINE COUNTY CONTRACTOR GOING INTO DORCHESTER HAS GOT TO BE REGISTERED.
THEY'RE COLLECTING MONEY OFF OF US.
WE'RE NOT COLLECTING THE MONEY FOR THEM.
BUT WE ALSO DON'T WANT IT TO BE SO MUCH THAT WE'RE DRIVING THE COST FOR EVERYBODY TO GET WORKED.
>> I WOULD SAY THAT IF WE'RE GOING TO DISCUSS THE FEE WE'RE IN THE BUDGET, WE WOULD MAKE AN EFFECTIVE DATE OF JULY 1.
THAT WOULD GIVE US TIME TO GET THE LEGISLATIVE PROCESS, GET THROUGH THAT AND THE CODE CHANGES THAT WE NEED AND SET UP A REGISTRATION APPLICATIONS, SET UP OR ONLINE SYSTEM TO ACCOMMODATE THE REGISTRATIONS, AND THE SAME GOES FOR THE PERMITTING BECAUSE WE DON'T CURRENTLY HAVE PERMITTING FOR ELECTRIC PLUMBING FOR AGE SO WE WOULD WANT TO ESTABLISH THAT PROCESS AND THEN THAT'S IT, AS FAR AS THE CODE ADOPTION AND THE INSPECTION FEE, THAT WOULD ALL BE ESTABLISHED IN THE LEGISLATIVE.
>> IN THE PERMIT ON ANYTHING RESIDENTIAL WOULD JUST BE A SIMPLE DISCLOSURE LIKE I'M PUTTING IN LIKE A HEAT PUMP.
>> ANOTHER THING THAT WAS DISCUSSED IN THE INC CODE,
[00:35:04]
THERE IS A REQUIREMENT FOR CONSTRUCTION DOCUMENTS FOR BOTH RESIDENTIAL OR COMMERCIAL, AND THE DISCUSSION WAS FROM THE TRADES BOARD THAT THERE WAS NOT A NEED TO HAVE CONSTRUCTION DOCUMENTS ON THE RESIDENTIAL SIDE, BUT ON THE COMMERCIAL SIDE, YES.THAT WOULD BE SOMETHING WE WOULD IDENTIFY IN THE IN OUR CODE AS TO WHAT THOSE REQUIREMENTS WOULD BE FOR CONSTRUCTION DOCUMENTS THAT WE WOULDN'T FOLLOW WITH IN THE INC.
>> THEN WE'RE GOING TO TRY TO DO SOME TYPE OF INFORMATIONAL CAMPAIGN TO PEOPLE TO LET THEM KNOW THEY NEED TO PAY ATTENTION TO WHAT'S GOING ON IN THEIR HOUSE.
>> YEAH. WE CAN INCORPORATE THAT INFORMATION ONTO OUR PERMITTING DOCUMENTS, SO AT LEAST IF SOMEONE'S COMING IN TO GET A PERMIT FOR ANYTHING IN ADDITION TO THEIR HOME, EVEN THOUGH THEY MAY NOT BE LOOKING AT HVAC, THEY WOULD KNOW THAT THAT WAS SOMETHING TO CONSIDER.
I THINK IT'S GOING TO BE HARD TO DO THE INFORMATION ON THE CHANGE OUTS BECAUSE YOU DON'T REALLY HAVE SOMEBODY COMING TO YOU UNLESS THEY'RE DOING OTHER WORK.
>> WHAT LEVEL OF DETAIL WOULD YOU BE LOOKING FOR ON THE COMMERCIAL AS FAR AS COMMERCIAL DRAWINGS? IF SOMEBODY PUTS UP A POLE BUILDING AND JUST WANTS TO HEAT AND COOL AN OFFICE SPACE INSIDE OF IT, WE'RE NOT GETTING CRAZY LIKE HAVING TO HIRE A MECHANICAL ENGINEER FOR THAT ALREADY?
>> NO. THAT ALREADY BE LIKE I WOULD ALMOST CONSIDER THAT, LIKE RESIDENTIAL.
>> YEAH, BUT SEE, THAT'S THE THING LEVI. THIS IS GOVERNMENT.
THEN IT GOES DOWN THIS WHOLE OTHER, YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN?
>> WE COULD CHANGE THE WORDING.
>> FOR SO MANY SQUARE FEET OR.
>> I SECOND, ADAM, I THINK YOU CAN ABOUT.
WHAT YOU WOULD GENERALLY LOOK AT ON A COMMERCIAL.
>> WE COULD BASE IT ON THE OCCUPANCY TYPE.
IF IT'S A PRIVATE OFFICE, THAT WOULD BE TREATED DIFFERENT THAN A RESTAURANT., THE OCCUPANCY TYPE WOULD DRIVE THE RESTRICTION OR THE REQUIREMENTS.
>> BUT THERE'S A BIG CHAIN CONVENIENCE STORE.
IN THE COUNTY RIGHT NOW, I CAN THINK OF ONE AT THE END OF THE ROAD THAT I LIVE ON.
WAS NO THERE WERE NO HVAC REQUIREMENTS.
NOTHING WAS LOOKED AT ON THAT WHATSOEVER RIGHT NOW.
>> THE ONE BIG THING, LIKE, ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT THE BIG CHAIN RESTAURANT TYPE THINGS OR STORES IS IF THEY HAVE A HOOD SYSTEM, THE FIRE MARSHAL IS LOOKING AT THAT, BUT EVEN TALKING WITH FIRE MARSHALS AND OTHER AREAS, THEY'RE NOT LOOKING AT ANYTHING SPECIFIC WITH THE HOOD, OTHER THAN DOES IT FUNCTION?
>> RIGHT. YEAH. THEY'RE NOT LOOKING AT ADVISING.
>> THEY'RE NOT THEY'RE JUST BASICALLY TREATING IT LIKE THERE'S A FIRE TO MAKE SURE THE MAKEUP AIR TURNS OFF AND EXHAUST TURNS ON.
IT'S AS THERE'S A GAP THERE AS WELL.
>> WELL, PUT SOME THOUGHT INTO THAT THEN TOO WE DON'T JUST SMALL BUSINESS OWNERS WITH THREE OR FOUR EMPLOYEES DOING SOMETHING COMMERCIALLY.
WE DON'T WANT TO HAVE THEM HAVE TO GO BACK AND SPEND $5,000 TO HIRE A MECHANICAL ENGINEER TO PUT A STAMP ON SOMETHING THAT'S REALLY PRETTY SIMPLE TOO.
TRY TO GET CREATIVE WITH THAT.
I THINK WE'RE GOOD ON THE LICENSING REQUIREMENT.
YOU GUYS IF YOU GO THROUGH THE BUILDING CODE AND MAKE SURE NOTHING'S CRAZY, WE'RE GOOD WITH THAT.
THE LAST THING IS IS DIRECTION.
DO YOU GUYS DO YOU WANT TO REQUIRE THE PERMITS FOR RETROFITS, OR ARE YOU WHAT ARE YOU THINKING? ARE YOU WITH ME, WHERE WE JUST DO IT FOR NEW CONSTRUCTION FOR RIGHT NOW? AND CAN WE PUT LANGUAGE IN OUR ORDINANCE THAT REQUIRES A REGISTERED HVAC CONTRACTOR TO DISCLOSE OR TO SAY THAT IT IS AN OPTION TO GO GET A PERMIT FOR THIS REPLACEMENT WORK OR TO REQUIRE THEM TO DO THAT.
YOU CAN ALSO PUT IT IN THE FORMS, WHICH I THINK SOMEBODY SUGGESTED THAT ALREADY THIS MORNING.
BUT YES LIKE THE CONSUMER PROTECTION LANGUAGE THAT WE SEE IN A GREAT DEAL OF STATE STATUTES.
>> IT'S A START. I'M JUST CONCERNED.
IF WE'RE REPLACING EVERY IS THERE'S A LOT OF AIR HANDLERS GET REPLACED IN THIS COUNTY.
[00:40:01]
IF IT ALL GETS DONE ONLINE, CAN IT BE DONE WITHOUT ANY STAFF INTERACTION?>> ONLINE? YES. WELL, THE INTERACTION WOULD BE.
IF YOU'RE AT HOME AT NIGHT AND YOU WANT TO SIT DOWN AND FOLLOW YOUR PERMITS FOR TOMORROW, YOU CAN FILE ONLINE WHEN WE COME IN, WE CHECK ALL THE ONLINE SUBMITTALS RIGHT AWAY AND SAY, EVERYTHING'S GOOD TO GO, MAKE YOUR PAYMENT.
WE PROCESS IT BECAUSE WE TRY TO ACCOMMODATE THEM BEING ABLE TO GET THEIR INSPECTION REQUESTED BY 9:00 IN THE MORNING.
STAFF THERE AT 7:30 LOOKING THROUGH ANY PREVIOUS SUBMITTALS OVERNIGHT SO THAT THEY CAN HAVE TIME TO PROCESS IT AND GET IT ON THEIR SCHEDULE FOR A SAME DAY.
>> IF YOU GET TEN AIR HANDLER REPLACEMENT PERMITS REQUESTS THE ONE NIGHT, HOW LONG IS THAT GOING TO TAKE A STAFF MEMBER TO GO THROUGH?
>> NOT LONG. I MEAN AS LONG AS THEY FILLED OUT THE INFORMATION, THEY'RE PROPERLY LICENSED.
I MEAN, THAT'S JUST A WEBSITE CHECK TO MAKE SURE THEY HAVE A LICENSE, AND I MEAN WE WOULD ALREADY BE IN OUR SYSTEM IF THEY'RE REGISTERED FOR ACCOUNTING BECAUSE THAT WOULD BE EVEN IF THEY'RE LICENSE WITH STATE THE STOCK TO BE REGISTERED.
>> I DON'T. SOMETIMES, I JUST GET A LITTLE RIGHT WING, I GUESS, BUT I JUST FEEL LIKE THAT'S A BRIDGE TOO FAR FOR ME IS TO REQUIRE THAT THERE.
I MEAN WE DISCLOSE, GIVE THE HOMEOWNER THE OPTION.
>> BUT I'M OKAY WITH THE OPTION.
FROM NOW, WE MAY WANT TO GO BACK AND REVISIT IT?
>> IF WE HEAR A BUNCH OF HORROR STORIES, CONTINUE TO HEAR HORROR STORIES FROM YOU GUYS AND YOU COME BACK AND MAKE A REALLY COMPELLING ARGUMENT, AND MAYBE YOU MIGHT SWAY ME.
>> THE UNIT REPLACEMENT CHANGE OUT WITH FALL TO RETROFIT, WOULD THAT FALL OR THAT OR THAT?
>> YEAH, WE WOULDN'T REQUIRE A PERMIT.
THE CONTRACT WOULD SAY, HEY DO YOU WANT TO DO YOU WANT ME TO GET A PERMIT AND GET IT INSPECTED? IT'S YOUR OPTION AS A HOME, OR DO YOU TRUST ME TO DO IT?
>> BASICALLY, DO YOU FIND THAT IF YOU'RE GOING TO RETROFIT SOMETHING, IT'S EASY JUST TO SWAP OUT, LIKE, IN OTHER WORDS, IF YOU'RE JUST GOING TO SWAP OUT SOMETHING, THAT EVERYTHING'S STILL PRETTY MUCH THE SAME?
>> FOR THE MOST PART. BRYAN CARRIER.
THEIR AIR HUNTERS HAVE BEEN THE SAME DUCK SIZE AS OPENING.
YOU KNOW, IT'S PRETTY CUT AND DRY IN AND OUT, TRAIN SAME WAY.
YOU GO IN THERE AND YOU SWITCH THEM OUT.
BUT YOU KNOW, ELECTRICAL HAS BEEN UPGRADED OVER THE YEARS.
YEAH. YOU GET A HIGHER EFFICIENCY UNIT.
MOST OF THE TIME, THE ELECTRIC ISN'T ENOUGH NOW.
>> YOU NEED TO THAT'S WHEN YOU NEED TO BREAKERS AND NEW WIN.
>> YEAH. YOU CAN SQUEAK BY MOST OF THE TIME, I'VE SEEN I'VE GONE INTO SOME PLACES WHERE PEOPLE HAVE LOCKED THE THERMOSTAT OUT SO IT WON'T SPEND AS FAST TO DRAW THE AMPS AND THEN THAT'S COSTING THE HOMEOWNER MONEY.
>> BUT HEAT PACKAGES, TOO? AIR HANDLERS. THAT'S A BIG PROBLEM.
>> YOU PAID FOR THE ENERGY EFFICIENCY AND THEN THE INSTALLER SKIRTS IT. YOU DON'T GET IT.
>> I DON'T KNOW. WAS IT LAST WINTER WHEN IT WAS REALLY, REALLY COLD AND EVERYBODY'S ELECTRIC BILLS WERE GOING THROUGH THE ROOF.
A LOT OF THOSE UNITS THAT WE WERE BEING INVOLVED IN BECAUSE WE WERE EVEN GETTING PHONE CALLS SAYING, YOU JUST PASSED MY HOUSE AND MY ELECTRIC BILLS $1,000.
YOU FIND OUT THE HEAT PACK THEY PUT IN THERE WAS A FIVE KW WHEN IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN A TEN OR SOMETHING BIGGER.
THEY'RE JUST PUTTING IN THE MINIMUM AND IT JUST COULDN'T KEEP UP.
>> IT'S THAT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT YOU WOULD CATCH AN INSPECTION EITHER, UNLESS IT WOULD RIGHT AND DESIGNED.
>> YOU CAN'T SOLVE EVERY RIGHT EXACTLY EVERY THING, BUT SO BUT ALL RIGHT.
YOU GUYS CLEAR? WE JUST DO THE NEW CONSTRUCTION FOR RIGHT NOW, AND WE'LL PUT SOMETHING IN THERE FOR NOTIFICATION OF CUSTOMER BY THE CONTRACTOR OF AVAILABILITY OF INSPECTION.
ON THE RETROFITS OR THAT TYPE OF THING.
ELECTRIC SUMMING AND EACH BACK ON REGISTRATION.
>> LOT OF THEY'RE ALL PRETTY MUCH ALL DUE TO SAVE, BUT COVER ALL OF THERE.
>> APPRECIATE YOU GUYS VOLUNTEERING AND THE OTHER GUYS FOR THE TRADES BOARD.
I KNOW WE ALL APPRECIATE THE VOLUNTEERISM AND DOING THAT.
YOU GUYS ARE ALL BUSY AND TAKE THE TIME TO LOOK OUT FOR THE PEOPLE OF THE COUNTY.
>> LOOK OUT DAYS A RAINY DAYS.
>> I CAN'T. HE'S THE ONE THAT'S OKAY 'CAUSE IT'S RAINING AND YOU HAVE TO BE HERE.
>> ALL RIGHT. NEXT UP, WE HAVE TODD LORD, CHAIR OF THE POLICE ACCOUNTABILITY BOARD.
[Todd Lord, Chair, Police Accountability Board]
[00:45:04]
>> KIM. YOU GOOD? ALL RIGHT. YOU GOT TO LET TODD DO IT?
>> TODD DON'T NEED. H. A. GOOD MORNING, COMMISSIONERS. GOOD MORNING.
GLAD TO BE HERE FOR YOU TODAY TO GIVE ME 2025 2025 POLICE ACCOUNTABILITY BOARD ANNUAL REPORT.
I PROBABLY BUTCHER'S NAME STAKE IN THE BACK. YEAH.
>> GLAD TO HAVE HIM HERE. ALSO WANT TO INTRODUCE KIM RADER, SHE'S THE PAB ACC REPRESENTATIVE, AND MR. STEWART BARROW, HE'S THE LEGAL REPRESENTATIVE OF BOTH BOARDS AS WELL.
JUST WANT TO GO OVER A FEW HIGHLIGHTS OF THE REPORT.
THE FIRST PART OF THE REPORT, WE TALK ABOUT THE MEMBERSHIP.
AS YOU KNOW, WE WENT THROUGH A TRANSITION PERIOD.
LAST YEAR, WE HAD A FEW RESIGNATIONS FROM THE BOARDS.
WE HAD ONE FROM THE PAB, WHICH ALSO REPRESENTED ONE FROM THE ACC AND ANOTHER ONE FROM THE ACC.
WE HAD TWO OPENINGS ON THE ACC AND ONE FROM THE PAB.
WE FILLED ONE WITH MYSELF AS A CHAIR.
THE COMMISSIONERS APPOINTED ME AS A CHAIR OF THE PAB.
>> AT OUR QUARTERLY MEETINGS, OUR BOARD HAS ONGOING ENGAGEMENT WITH LOCAL LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCIES DURING THE REGULARLY SCHEDULED MEETINGS TO FACILITATE CONSTRUCTIVE DIALOGUE AND COMMUNITY CONCERNS RESULTING IN THE STRENGTHENING COLLABORATION OF THE ENHANCED PUBLIC SAFETY AWARENESS.
THE PUBLIC PORTAL COMPONENT OF THE IPO SOFTWARE CONTINUES TO PROVIDE A VALUABLE RESOURCE IN THE AREA OF ENABLING CITIZENS TO DO REPORTING OF COMPLAINTS.
THE MAKEUP OF THE BOARD WAS, AS YOU KNOW, IN PREVIOUS YEAR, WELL, PARTICULARLY LAST YEAR WAS SOMEWHAT TENSE BETWEEN THE LAS AND THE BOARD.
PART OF ME COMING ON BOARD WAS TO TRY TO BRIDGE THOSE GAPS TO BRING THOSE LAS AND THE BOARD BACK TOGETHER IN A COLLABORATIVE WAY THAT WE CAN ALL COMMUNICATE AND HAVE A POSITIVE REPORT.
AS YOU KNOW, THE COUNTY SUCCESSFULLY SECURED THE POLICE ACCOUNTABILITY IN COMMUNITY AND TRANSPARENCY PAT GRANT FOR 2026.
HOWEVER, THAT WAS SIGNIFICANTLY CUT.
IT WAS CUT, I BELIEVE IN HALF, ALMOST AS THE RIGHT IN.
>> ALMOST IN HALF. WORKING WITH MINIMAL, FUNDING THERE.
BUT WHAT IT FUNDS IS THE LEXIPOL IT'S THE UNIFIED STATEWIDE POLICE RULES.
AND THEN WHEN LEXIPOL GIVES THOSE BEST PRACTICES RULES OUT, THEN THE POLICE AGENCIES CAN MODIFY THOSE TO TAILOR THEIR INDIVIDUAL NEEDS.
ALSO DOES THE POLICE O ACADEMY AND SOFTWARE.
IT FUNDS THE PAB ACC ADMINISTRATION, HALF OF HER SALARY.
ACC TRAINING, WHICH WE JUST DID TWO MEMBERS, AND PARTICULARLY THE IP PRO SOFTWARE WAS BEING FUNDED THROUGH THAT GRANT.
HOWEVER, THAT WILL NO LONGER BE FUNDED ONCE IT EXPIRES.
I PETITIONED THE CAPTAIN HELMER IN OUR LAST PB BOARD MEETING, AND HE SAID THAT THE SHERIFFS DEPARTMENT WOULD PICK UP THAT COST SHOULD THAT EXPIRATION OCCURRENT WOULD NOT BE FUNDED UNDER THEIR BUDGET.
A TOTAL OF $55,433 IN GRANT FUNDS WAS APPROVED UNDER THE PAC GRANT, REPRESENTING HALF OF WHAT WE REQUESTED.
WE DO REQUEST THAT WE STILL CONTINUE TO FORGO TRYING TO GET THAT GRANT AND IMPROVING THAT GRANT, AND WE WOULD DO SO BY THROUGH THE OFFICE OF LAW.
EXCUSE ME. TO GET INTO THE MEET OF BUT AS OF OCTOBER 20TH, THE SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT HAS RESPONDED TO 23,265 CALLS FOR SERVICE.
THE DENTON POLICE DEPARTMENT HAS RESPONDED TO 10,642 CALLS FOR SERVICE.
THE GREENSBUR POLICE DEPARTMENT HAS RESPONDED TO 1,073 CALLS FOR SERVICE.
COLLECTIVELY, 34,980 CALLS FOR SERVICE GENERATED ONLY SEVEN CITIZEN COMPLAINTS.
AS A RESULT OF THOSE COMPLAINTS, FOUR WERE INVESTIGATED THROUGH THE ACC AND THE LEAS AND WERE EXONERATED FROM THOSE CHARGES COMPLAINTS? TWO RESULTED IN BEING ADMINISTRATIVELY CHARGED.
THE MOST NOTABLE TREND AMONG THE SEVEN COMPLAINTS WAS THE MAJORITY INVOLVED ALLEGATIONS OF OFFICERS BEING RUDE AND DISCOURTEOUS IN THE IMPROPER USE OF FORCE.
SINCE THE ENACTMENT OF THE MARYLAND GENERAL ASSEMBLY HOUSE BILL 670, ALSO KNOWN AS THE MARYLAND POLICE ACCOUNTABILITY ACT OF 2021 TOOK EFFECT, JULY 1ST, 2022.
A TOTAL OF 34 COMPLAINTS HAVE BEEN FILED IN CAROLINE COUNTY.
[00:50:04]
A CITIZEN ACTUALLY USED THE IPO SOFTWARE EXCUSE ME, TO GIVE A POSITIVE COMMENTS TO ONE OF THE POLICE OFFICERS IN GREENSBORO.THIS RECOGNITION WAS FORMALLY SHARED AT OUR PAB QUARTERLY MEETING, AND ONE OF THE THINGS WE WANT TO DO IS REINFORCE THE POSITIVITY.
IF OFFICERS ARE DOING A GOOD JOB, WE WANT TO RECOGNIZE THAT THAT THEY'RE DOING SUCH.
AS I PREVIOUSLY STATED, THE COUNTY UTILIZES ITS IN HOUSE LEGAL COUNSEL TO PROVIDE GUIDANCE AND SUPPORT TO BOTH THE ACC AND THE PAB.
COUNSEL ASSIST IN INTERPRETING APPLICABLE LAWS AND REGULATIONS, ENSURING COMPLIANCE WITH STATUTORY REQUIREMENTS, AND ADVISING PROCEDURAL MATTERS DURING CASE REVIEWS AND BOARD DELIBERATIONS.
BASICALLY, STEWART PREVENTS US FROM GOING ROGUE.
HE KEEPS US IN LINE. AND IB DOES TOO. BIG SHOT.
REPRESENTATIVES FROM THE LEAS ATTEND THE MEETINGS.
GOING BACK, ONE OF THE THINGS I WANTED TO DO AND TALK TO KIM WHEN I TOOK ON THE BOARD CHAIRMAN WAS TO ADJUST THE AGENDA, TO WHERE LEAS CAN COME IN AND GIVE A REPORT SUCH AS I'M GIVEN RIGHT NOW, TO WHERE THEY CAN GIVE DATA, CALL IM, NUMBER OF P1, PART 2 CRIME ARRESTS, GIVE ANY STATISTICAL DATA THEY WANT TO PROVIDE, AND THEY CAN ACTUALLY MAKE IT WHATEVER THEY WANT.
IT GIVES THEM THE OPPORTUNITY TO COME TO THE PODIUM IN PUBLIC FORUM AND GIVE IF THEY WANT TO GIVE A PRAISE, THEY CAN DO THAT AS WELL.
WE ALLOW THAT. NOT EVERYTHING'S NEGATIVE.
WE ALSO HAVE TRAINED TWO NEWLY APPOINTED ACC MEMBERS.
WE WENT TO TRAINING MYSELF AND DAN TOWERS ON NOVEMBER 3RD THROUGH THE SEVENTH IN SIKEVILLE.
IT WAS ALSO DURING THE START OF THE MARY SAVE POLICE TRAINING ACADEMY, WHICH WAS QUITE INTERESTING. I FEEL BAD FOR THE PEOPLE.
THE TRAINING COVER KEY AREAS SUCH AS MARYLAND POLICE TRAINING A COUNTABILITY ACT, COMPLAINT REVIEW PROCEDURES, CONFIDENTIALITY REQUIREMENTS, AND STANDARDS FOR EVALUATING EVIDENCE AND OFFICER CONDUCT.
ALSO INCLUDED AN OVERVIEW OF THE ACC, COLLABORATES AND THE PB AND LOCAL LEAS.
THE ORIENTATION EQUIPPED NEW MEMBERS WITH CLEAR UNDERSTANDING OF ROLES THAT PROMOTES CONSISTENCY, TRANSPARENCY, FAIRNESS IN THE ADMINISTRATIVE CHARGING PROCESS.
I WILL TELL YOU, IT WAS A WEEK LONG TRAINING, VERY INFORMATIVE, VERY PROFESSIONALLY RUN.
WAYNE SILVER WAS ONE OF THE LEAD INSTRUCTORS BOB WAGNER WAS THE OTHER.
CAN'T SAY ENOUGH GOOD THINGS ABOUT IT.
I HAD A LOT OF NETWORKING WITH OTHER PAB CHAIRS AS WELL THAT WERE THERE IN TRAINING.
ONE OF THE THINGS THE ACC LOOKS AT THINGS FROM THE BACKWARD SIDE OF THINGS.
THE PAB LOOKS AT A VISIONARY, FROM THE FORWARD THINKING.
ONE OF THE INITIATIVES THAT THE STATEWIDE AT THE STATEWIDE POLICE COUNTABILITY BOARD MEETING THAT WAS HOSTED BY THE BALTIMORE CITY POLICE ACCOUNTABILITY BOARD.
THERE'S GOING TO BE A SUMMIT, I THINK IN APRIL CORRECT.
WE JUST DON'T HAVE A DATE FOR THAT YET. WE DON'T.
THAT BOARD MEANT TO GET SOME IDEAS OF WHAT INITIATIVES AND LEGISLATION THEY WOULD LIKE TO SEE.
ONE OF THE LEGISLATIONS THAT WE HAD, I THINK, MISS PORTER HAD EXPRESSED INTEREST IN WAS THE EXONERATION AND UNFOUNDED CASES BEING EXPUNGED FROM THE OFFICERS RECORD.
WHY THAT'S NOT DONE? I HAVE NO IDEA.
WE TRIED TO GET THAT THROUGH LEGISLATION LAST YEAR.
I DON'T THINK IT LEFT COMMITTEE.
I'M NOT SURE, BUT IT WASN'T PASSED.
THAT'S SOMETHING WE WANT TO PUT BACK ON JUST JUST AS A RECOMMENDATION.
IT SAYS, THIS WAS SOMETHING THAT CAROLINE COUNTY WAS INTERESTED IN PURSUING, PUT THAT BACK IN.
THERE WAS OTHER PABS THAT WERE INTERESTED IN AND HAVING THAT AS WELL.
WE JUST WANTED TO BE FAIR, IF THERE'S SOMEONE IN THE JOURNAL PUBLIC.
IF THERE'S A JUDGE HAS COMMITTED A CRIME AND HAVING THAT AS WELL.
>> THERE IS LEGISLATION THAT SAYS WE CAN'T DO IT.
>> NOW, THAT'S AN LEA QUESTION.
HOW THEY RETAIN THEIR RECORDS.
THEY MUST RETAIN THE RECORDS, AND IT CANNOT BE EXPUNGED.
THE COMPLAINTS CANNOT BE EXPUNGED.
>> YOU'RE SUBJECT TO PUBLIC INFORMATION.
IN OTHER WORDS, PEOPLE CAN GET IT.
>> YOU GOT TO KEEP IT FOREVER.
THAT WAS IN THE PAB ACT OF 2021, THE ORIGINAL BILL.
BUT LET ME ASK YOU A QUESTION HERE.
WHAT I'M CONCERNED ABOUT IS IF A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER LEAVES ONE AGENCY AND GOES TO ANOTHER.
IS HE REQUIRED TO DISCLOSE ANY CASES THAT ARE HAVE BEEN FILED AGAINST HIM? NOT THAT I KNOW OF. THE ONLY WAY THAT
[00:55:04]
EXPUNGEMENT WOULD COME ALONG WOULD BE INTERNALLY THROUGH THE LEAS.>> YES. BUT RIGHT NOW THEY'RE NOT ALLOWED TO DO IT.
IT'S ALMOST AS IF SOMEBODY HAD THE IDEA OF DOING EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE OF WHAT PROTECTED POLICE OFFICERS.
SURE THEY DID. UNDER THE. [OVERLAPPING]
>> THAT'S WHAT THIS WHOLE OPERATION IS.
THE IDEA THAT SOME AGGRESSIVE OFFICER OUT IN THE FIELD DOING HIS JOB, PERHAPS FLAWLESSLY, BUT DRAWS A LOT OF ATTENTION, DRAWS A COMPLAIN OR TO MORE THAN THE OTHER FELLOWS.
THAT WHERE THERE'S SMOKE, THERE'S FIRE.
THAT WAS THE ATTITUDE, I THINK OF THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY WHEN THEY DID THIS WAS, WELL, HE MAY NOT BE GETTING ADMINISTRATIVELY CHARGED, BUT THERE'S SOMETHING ABOUT AN OFFICER THAT DRAWS A LOT OF COMPLAINTS, AND WE THINK EVERYBODY SHOULD HAVE THE RIGHT TO KNOW THAT THIS OFFICER HAS DRAWN THESE COMPLAINTS.
WHICH THERE'S YOUR REWARD FOR, BEING PERHAPS A VERY ACTIVE POLICE OFFICER ENFORCING THE LAWS, AND YOU DRAW SOME OF THOSE UNFOUNDED COMPLAINTS.
>> WELL, LOOK, A LOT OF PEOPLE DON'T WANT TO HEAR THIS, BUT IN MY OPINION, THIS WHOLE LEGISLATION WAS BASED ON THE FACT THAT PEOPLE WE HAD LEGISLATORS WHO FOUGHT THAT ALL POLICE OFFICERS WERE BAD AND WE HAD TO GO FIND SOME WAY TO PUNISH THEM.
THAT'S WHAT IT WAS ALL SET UP FOR.
I THINK THE NUMBERS PROVE PRETTY MUCH THAT THAT ISN'T THE CASE.
BUT THAT'S WHAT IT WAS ALL PREDICATED ON.
>> I THINK YOU'RE CORRECT. THAT DEFINITELY IS A POINT WELL TAKEN.
WE BOTH EXPRESSED OUR CONCERNS IN REFERENCE TO THAT AS WELL.
JUST FOLLOWING UP FROM THAT, THAT'S SOMETHING WE WANT TO PUT BACK ON THE FOREFRONT IF WE CAN GET THAT IN A LEGISLATIVE INITIATIVE, THAT WOULD BE GREAT.
THAT MEETING WILL BE, AGAIN, IN APRIL, I'M NOT SURE OF THE DATE YET.
JUST TO GO OVER THE BACK PAGE, THE GRAPHS, WE INCLUDED THE GRAPHS, GAVE YOU A VISUAL REPRESENTATION OF BREAKDOWN FROM POLICE DEPARTMENTS.
WHEN THE FLESBURG POLICE DEPARTMENT WAS IN SERVICE, THEY HAD A TOTAL OF ONE COMPLAINT.
THAT COMPLAINT WAS EXONERATED.
THE GREENSBORO POLICE DEPARTMENT COMPLAINTS WAS ONE.
THAT WAS EXONERATED. LIKE I SAID, THEY DID RECEIVE A COMPLIMENT THROUGH THE IAP.
THE SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT HAD ZERO COMPLAINTS FOR 2025 YEAR.
ON THE BOTTOM PAGE OF THE PAGE 4 IS THE DENTON POLICE DEPARTMENT.
THEY RECEIVED FIVE COMPLAINTS, ONE IS PENDING, TWO ADMINISTRATIVELY CHARGED, AND TWO WERE EXONERATED,.
THE BAR GRAPH ABOVE SHOWS AN OVERALL REPRESENTATION OF THE COMPLAINTS IN 2025, 57.1 WERE EXONERATED, 3,014.7 WERE PENDING, 28.6 WERE ADMINISTRATIVELY CHARGED.
>> WITH THAT, I'LL TAKE ANY QUESTIONS YOU MAY HAVE.
I JUST WANT TO THANK YOU TODD FOR YEARS BEING ON EAB AND NOW, BE TAKE CHARGE OF ACC PAB.
>> I'M GLAD YOU, YOU WENT A WEEK AND GOT TO VOLUNTARY TRAINING.
>> THANK YOU FOR ALWAYS STEPPING UP AND WILLING TO SERVE.
>> IT'S NOTED THAT NONE OF THE MEMBERS ARE BEING PAID.
THEY'RE ALL D ON A VOLUNTARY STATUS.
>> GOING BACK TO THIS EXPUNGEMENT THING.
YOU SAY THAT THE ORGANIZATION IS TRYING TO GET HOW ARE THEY GOING ABOUT DOING THAT?
>> THE SUMMIT WE ATTENDED, STEWART, MAY BE ABLE TO COMMENT, WAS ATTENDED BY STATEWIDE PB CHAIRS, AND THEY WERE JUST BRAINSTORMING OF LEGISLATIVE INITIATIVES.
THERE THERE WAS SOME CONVERSATION OF HAVING LEGISLATORS ATTEND THESE MEETINGS.
>> I THINK THERE WAS A BALTIMORE CITY DELEGATE THAT WAS THERE.
>> I ACTUALLY ATTENDED THE WHEN I WAS IN THE ACC TRAINING, I SAT NEXT TO THE BALTIMORE CITY PB CHAIR.
WE NETWORKED A LITTLE BIT AND DISCUSSED.
TO STEWARD'S POINT, THEY DID SAY THAT WERE THE SMOKED THERE'S FIRE.
BUT ONE OF THE THINGS I BROUGHT UP WAS, LIKE YOU WERE MENTIONING, IF AN OFFICER LEAVES ONE AGENCY TO GO TO ANOTHER AGENCY TO BETTER HIS FAMILY OR WHATEVER, AND THEY TAKE A BOOK OF EXONERATED CASES IN FRONT OF AN INTERVIEW PANEL,
[01:00:03]
THAT MAY GIVE SOME IMPLIED BIAS TO THE INTERVIEW PANELS SAY, WE MAY NOT WANT THIS GUY SMUGGLER SMOKERS FIRE.WHEN, IN FACT, HE'S A GOOD POLICE OFFICER, JUST OUT THERE DOING HIS JOB AGGRESSIVELY.
>> DOES THE PAB ORGANIZATION HAVE? DO THEY HAVE LOBBYISTS?
>> MY QUESTION IS, LIKE, IF WE HAVE A PIECE OF LEGISLATION THAT WE WANT TO GET THROUGH, WE WILL CONTACT THE EASTERN SHORE DELEGATION.
YES. DO YOU KNOW IF THE EASTERN SHORE DELEGATION HAS BEEN INVOLVED IN ANY OF THIS?
>> I THINK THEY PUT IT FORWARD LAST YEAR, CORRECT? WASN'T IT PUT FORWARD LAST YEAR? I THINK SO. THROUGH MACON I HAVEN'T HEARD ANYTHING ABOUT THIS.
>> I THINK IT WAS PUT THROUGH LAST YEAR, SHERIFF BAKER, MAYBE TO COMMENT ON THAT, BUT I THINK IT WAS PUT THROUGH AND DIDN'T COME OUT.
IT DIDN'T COME OUT OF COMMITTEE, I THINK.
BUT IT WAS INTRODUCED. BUT IT NEVER CAME OUT.
JOHN BARTLETT WENT AND ALSO SPOKE AT THE TIME, AGAIN SHERIFF BAKER DID.
>> I DON'T CARE WHAT ANYBODY ELSE DOES, WE NEED TO DO IT. I DON'T CARE.
>> I MEAN, IT JUST DOESN'T MAKE SENSE TO ME THAT YOU HAVE A PERSON WHO IS GOING TO HAVE TO BE EXONERATED FOR SOMETHING, BUT STILL HAVE THAT BURDEN TO CARRY. IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE.
>> IT'S NOT FAIR. WE YOU FELT EXACTLY THE SAME WAY AND WE APPRECIATE YOU.
>> I MEAN, IF YOU'VE DONE SOMETHING WRONG, THEN FACE THE CONSEQUENCES, BUT IF YOU HAVEN'T.
>> THANK YOU. THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
>> NO PROBLEM. AND ONE OF THE THINGS LIKE I SAID, I JUST WANT TO FOLLOW UP THAT, YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE OFFICERS IN OUR LAST MEETING, THE LIEUTENANT FROM DENTON WAS LIKE, THESE OFFICERS ARE REALLY SCARED AND CONCERNED AND OF ALL THIS LAW AND LEGISLATION, AND IT'S ANXIETY FOR THEM, RIGHT?
>> THERE'S A CITIZEN BOARD THAT'S JUDGING SOMEONE HOW TO DO A SPLIT SECOND DECISION IN THE LENS OF THAT EYE, AND IT'S DIFFICULT.
AND SO THEY'RE ACTUALLY HAVING TO TRUST US TO MAKE THAT DECISION.
SO ONE OF THE THINGS THAT THE LIEUTENANT ASKED IS THAT, HEY, CAN ONE OF YOU GUYS COME TO SHIFT MEETING OR JUST INTRODUCE YOURSELF, HAVE A ROUND TABLE.
I SAID, ABSOLUTELY, I WILL BE TOTALLY WILLING TO DO THAT.
I WANT TO BRING A GEL, IF YOU WILL, BACK TO THE BETWEEN THE LA, THE BOARD AND BRING THEM TOGETHER SO WE CAN COHESIVE, COMMUNICATE, GET ALONG.
>> I MEAN, IF YOU GO BACK, THIS IS EQUIVALENT TO A GROUP OF CITIZENS WHO HAVE NO MEDICAL OR EMERGENCY TRAINING EVALUATING YOUR PERFORMANCE AS A PARAMEDIC OR EMT.
I MEAN, THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT IT IS.
IT JUST DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE TOO.
>> TO YOUR POINT, IT WOULD UPSET ME TO HAVE TO SIT IN FRONT OF A CITIZEN BOARD TO EXPLAIN HOW AN INTUBATION IS DONE WHEN THEY DON'T KNOW WHAT AN INTUBATION IS.
>> OR IF SOMEBODY WAS COMPLAINING, WELL, YOU DIDN'T GET THERE FAST OR YOU DIDN'T WHEN YOU GOT THERE, YOU DIDN'T TALK TO ME PLEASANTLY.
>> I MEAN, THIS WHOLE CONCEPT IS JUST OUT. IT'S JUST BAD.
>> AND THE ROOT IN THE SKIRT IS, I REALLY DON'T KNOW WHAT THE DEFINITION OF THAT IS, SO IT'S VERY SUBJECTIVE AND INTERPRETATIONAL.
I WILL SAY ON THE STUDY WISE, WE DID AT ACC. THERE WAS A PER STUDY.
I CAN'T REMEMBER THAT'S THE ACRONYM, THAT IN FACT, STATEWIDE, THE COMPLAINTS THAT ARE COMING IN AND RESOLVED BY THE ACC ARE COMING IN, THE ACC ARE GIVING A LESSER PENALTY PUNISHMENT THAN THE ACTUAL LEA REPRESENTATIVES WERE, LEAD AGENCIES WERE.
SO THEY WERE ACTUALLY PUNISHING THEM MORE THAN THE ACC WERE. TOM.
>> SO THIS YEAR, WE HAD TWO INDIVIDUALS ADMINISTRATIVELY CHARGED.
DID EITHER ONE OF THOSE ELECT TO GO TO TRIAL BOARD AT THIS POINT OR DID THEY ACCEPT OR DO WE NOT KNOW? THEY DID ACCEPT.
>> THEY ACCEPTED. ONCE THE ACC SUBMITTED THE LETTER, AND IT WAS PRESENTED BY THE CHIEF, THEY ACCEPTED AND SIGNED OFF THAT THEY ACCEPTED.
>> SO WE HAVE DOCUMENTATION THAT IT WAS ACCEPTED.
>> BECAUSE THERE HAD BEEN RUMOR THAT A LOT OF THE UNION ORGANIZATIONS WERE RECOMMENDING THAT EVERYONE GO TO TRIAL BOARD.
SO THEY DID ACCEPT AND, FORTUNATELY,
[01:05:03]
DID NOT PUT THE COUNTY THROUGH THAT EXPENSE OR THE AMOUNT OF TIME DISTRACTION THAT THAT TAKES.BECAUSE I MEAN, LOOK THERE WAS AN EXPENSE.
BUT IN SMALL COUNTIES LIKE OURS, I THINK EVERYBODY NEEDS TO UNDERSTAND THAT WHEN THESE TYPES OF ACTIONS ARE INITIATED, IT TAKES A LOT OF STAFF TIME OUT OF LEGAL OR LEGAL DEPARTMENT TO DO ALL THESE THINGS.
SO THAT'S AS IMPORTANT AS THE FINANCIAL IMPACT, DEFINITELY.
BECAUSE IT GRINDS EVERYTHING ELSE THAT WE'RE TRYING TO GET DONE OUR INITIATIVES TO A CALL.
THE PAB HAS TO MEET FOUR TIMES BY STATUTE? IS THAT CORRECT?
>> YEAH. HOW LONG ARE YOUR MEETINGS TYPICALLY? HOW MUCH TIME IS THAT?
AND THAT'S THE MAIN FUNCTION OF THE PAB IS JUST THOSE FOUR QUARTERLY MEETINGS AND TO PUT THIS REPORT TOGETHER.
>> IT'S A VISIONARY KIND OF THING.
IT'S A RECOMMENDATION FOR THE VLAS.
THEY COME, GIVE US STATISTICAL INFORMATION.
AND WE USE THAT STATISTICAL INFORMATION GOING FORWARD TO PRODUCE FUTURE ANNUAL REPORTS.
>> IT'S MORE OF A FACT BASED STATISTICAL BASE THAN IT WOULD BE OPINION BASED.
A REPORT. THAT'S WHAT I LIKE TO SEE HAPPEN.
>> NOW, THE ACC MEETINGS, I KNOW THERE WAS SOME, WE'RE STILL WORKING THROUGH THIS BECAUSE OF HOW NEW THIS LEGISLATION IS, BUT THERE WAS INFORMATION SHARING, BECAUSE THE INFORMATION IS VERY SENSITIVE.
WE'VE WORKED THROUGH ALL THAT.
IS EVERYBODY GOOD NOW WITH THE INFORMATION SHARING THAT'S GOING ON?
>> WHAT WE DECIDED TO DO WAS INSTEAD OF DOING PRINTOUTS TO THE ACC, PRIOR TO IT, WE'VE COMPROMISED AND WE'RE PUTTING IT INTO THE TEAM SOFTWARE.
SO EVERYONE HAS ACCESS TO IT AS WELL AS THE BODY CAM FOOTAGE, INTERVIEW FOOTAGE.
ALL OF THAT IS NOW IN TEAMS. SO THEY CAN WATCH IT AHEAD OF TIME, READ IT AHEAD OF TIME.
AND THEN ONCE THE ACC MAKES A DECISION, WE DELETED OUT OF TEAMS. IT SET UP A SHARE DRIVE WITH THE SHERIFF'S OFFICE.
BUT WHEN DENTON GAVE ME THERE, I PULLED IT OUT OF IA PRO, AND THEN I WAS ABLE TO UPLOAD IT INTO TEAMS. SO IT'S BEEN A HUGE TIME SAVER.
IT'S CUT DOWN ON A LOT OF THE PAPERWORK.
>> IT SHORTENS THE MEETINGS, RIGHT?
>> BECAUSE YOU'RE NOT LOOKING AT ALL THAT INFORMATION, RIGHT.
>> YES. BECAUSE THE VIDEOS THEMSELVES CAN BE HOURS LONG.
SO I'LL WATCH THEM IN THE BACKGROUND SOMETIMES WHEN I'M DOING OTHER THINGS JUST SO I CAN PREVIEW ALL OF IT.
THEN WE JUST SHOW THEM THE ESSENTIAL PARTS, AND SOME THINGS DON'T EVEN NEED TO BE SEEN BECAUSE IT'S JUST A LOT OF ARGUING OR WHATEVER IS GOING ON AT THE MOMENT.
BUT THE FILES WERE TOO BIG TO ACTUALLY SEND TO THE ACC AHEAD OF TIME, WHICH WAS CAUSING THEM TO COME IN AND SPEND A LOT OF TIME PREVIEWING THEM.
SO WHAT WE DID THIS LAST MEETING WAS EVERYBODY HAD WATCHED IT AHEAD OF TIME, AND THEN WE PULLED IT UP AND DID LIKE A REFRESHER.
SO EVERYONE WAS ON THE SAME PAGE.
AND THAT MEETING WENT VERY WELL. I BELIEVE SO.
THE NICE THING IS, TOO, IS THAT SINCE TODD IS ON THE ACC, AS WELL AS THE PAB, HE ACTUALLY SPOKE FOR NANCY AND DID THE READOUT AT THE PAB AND SHE WAS OKAY WITH IT.
SHE SAID THAT WAS FINE THAT HE COULD SPEAK ON HER BEHALF TO GIVE THE SYNOPSIS OF WHAT HAD HAPPENED AT THE ACC MEETINGS AT THE POLICE ACCOUNTABILITY BOARD QUARTERLY MEETING.
THAT ALSO SAVED HER TIME TO HAVE TO ATTEND ANOTHER MEETING.
>> SO THE ACC IS ONLY MEETING WHEN THERE'S A COMPLAINT?
>> CORRECT. WE HAVE ONE PENDING COMPLAINT WITH DENTON RIGHT AT THE MOMENT, AND IT'S NOT DONE.
SO WE HAVEN'T EVEN SCHEDULED THE NEXT ADMINISTRATIVE CHARGING COMMITTEE HERE. MEETING.
>> WE HAVE A TRIAL BOARD THAT IS COMING UP, WELL, NOT WE.
DENTON HAS A TRIAL BOARD THAT'S COMING UP ON DECEMBER 15 AT 9:00 AM AT THE TOWN COUNCIL HALL.
THAT TRIAL BOARD HAS FINALLY BEEN SCHEDULED, AND THEY'RE MOVING FORWARD WITH IT.
THEY WERE ABLE TO ATTAIN A JUDGE THROUGH THE OFFICE OF ADMINISTRATIVE HEARINGS.
>> THEY'RE PAYING FOR ALL THAT?
>> THEY'RE PAYING FOR ALL OF THAT. YES. THAT'S WHY THE ORDINANCE WAS PASSED, AND WE WENT THROUGH ALL OF THAT AT THE BEGINNING OF THE YEAR AND THEN JULY 25, WHEN THE ORDINANCE WAS PASSED, THAT WAS ALL SOLVED.
THEN THEY WERE ABLE TO MOVE FORWARD WITH HAVING THE SIGNING OF THE OFFICE OF ADMINISTRATIVE HEARINGS PAPERWORK CONTRACT AND THEN THEY WERE ABLE TO THEN GET THE JUDGE.
THEY ALREADY HAD THE CITIZEN THAT WE HAD PICKED AND TRAINED, AND IT ALL WORKED OUT FOR DECEMBER 15, IS WHAT THEY'RE TELLING ME?
>> I'M SURE THE ACC LENGTH OF THE MEETING VARIES GREATLY BASED UPON HOW MUCH INFORMATION YOU'VE GOT TO GO THROUGH.
BUT ON AVERAGE, HOW MANY TIMES DO YOU HAVE TO MEET? IF YOU DO RECEIVE A COMPLAINT, DO YOU TRY TO COVER IT IN ONE MEETING?
>> ONCE THE COMPLAINT COMES INTO OUR HANDS OR MY HANDS, THEY HAVE 30 DAYS TO REVIEW IT.
FOR EXAMPLE, THOUGH, AT THE TIME, WE ONLY HAD THREE ACC MEMBERS, SO WE NEEDED TO ASK FOR AN EXTENSION BECAUSE WE NEEDED THE QUORUM.
[01:10:03]
>> SO WE DID THAT ONE WITHIN 60 DAYS, BUT WE HAVEN'T HAD A WHOLE BUNCH OF COMPLAINTS AT ONE TIME.
I THINK MAYBE TWO MAYBE THREE TOPS THAT THEY EVER HAD TO GO OVER.
BUT IF THEY FEEL AS THOUGH IT'S GOING TO TAKE LONGER THAN WHAT THEY NEED, THEN WE JUST SCHEDULE ANOTHER MEETING WITHIN A WEEK OR TWO, OR WE CAN ASK FOR AN EXTENSION, IF NECESSARY, BECAUSE WE DON'T WANT TO CRAM IT ALL IN.
>> YOU'VE ADJUDICATED THREE COMPLAINTS AND ONE MEETING BEFORE?
>> I BELIEVE SO, IF I'M NOT MISTAKEN.
IT'S BEEN A MINUTE THOUGH THAT'S HAPPENED.
>> BUT, I MEAN, IDEALLY, IT WOULD BE ONE.
DEPENDING ON HOW MUCH INFORMATION YOU HAVE TO GO THROUGH, IT COULD TAKE AN HOUR OR TWO HOURS.
>> WE'VE HAD MEETINGS GO OH, MY GOSH, THREE OR FOUR HOURS WHEN WE HAD PATRICK.
JUST BECAUSE THERE'S A LOT OF DISCUSSION GOING ON.
A LOT OF TIMES THEY HAD TO REVIEW THE FILES THEN AND WE HAD TO WATCH THE VIDEO, SO THAT TAKES THE FIRST HOUR OR HOUR- AND-A-HALF.
>> IT'S JUST SITTING EVERYONE REVIEWING THE INFORMATION.
>> WE WERE WORKING OUT THE KINKS AT THE BEGINNING.
SO I THINK THAT WAS PART OF IT, TOO, IS NOT EVERYBODY BROUGHT THEIR LAPTOP, SO THEN WE'RE PRINTING IT OUT, SO WE'RE SPENDING TIME THEN READING AND REVIEWING AND THEN WE ALSO NOW HAVE THE OPTION OF THE OFFICER COMING IN WHO DID THE INVESTIGATION TO PRESENT IT TO THE ACC AND ANSWER QUESTIONS.
>> I DON'T KNOW HOW EASY IT WOULD BE TO TRACK, BUT I THINK ONE THING THAT WOULD BE BENEFICIAL TO INCLUDE IN THE REPORT, JUST THINKING IN THE FUTURE IS TIME.
>> YOU KNOW, IS MAYBE, IF YOU CAN TRACK HOW MANY HOURS THE PAB MEMBERS OR THE ACC MEMBERS PUT IN, TOO, I THINK THAT WOULD BE GOOD INFORMATION TO HAVE IN THE REPORT AND STAFF TIME, TOO.
I MEAN, FOR US TO UNDERSTAND THE ADDITIONAL BURDEN THAT THIS LEGISLATION HAS PUT ON COUNTY STAFF BECAUSE WE DON'T KNOW.
I MEAN, I DON'T KNOW, AND THAT'S A PRETTY IMPORTANT TALKING POINT, I THINK, FOR ME TO BE ABLE TO USE IN ARGUING ABOUT WHEN WE ARGUE BUDGETS, AND WHEN WE GO AND TESTIFY AT THE STATE LEGISLATURE IS, LOOK, YOU PASSED THIS LAW, YOU GUYS, YOU DUMP THIS ON THE COUNTY.
THIS IS IN TIME, IN DISTRACTION AND IN VOLUNTEERISM THAT IS PULLING AWAY FROM ALL THE OTHER THINGS THAT THE COUNTY COULD BE DOING, AND IS IT ULTIMATELY AFFECTING HAVING ANY EFFECT GOOD OR BAD ON POLICING IN THE STATE OF MARYLAND?
>> I KNOW IS A JUICE WORK TO SQUEEZE HERE.
BUT YEAH, I THINK, ADDING SOME INFORMATION, WHATEVER YOU CAN REASONABLY, ABOUT HOW MUCH TIME GOES INTO IT, I THINK THAT WOULD BE BENEFICIAL.
>> YEAH, THAT'S NO PROBLEM AT ALL, CAUSE I CURRENTLY HAVE A SPREADSHEET THAT I USE FOR THE TIME, AND THEN WITH THE MINUTES, THAT WOULD BE EASY TO ALSO RECORD.
>> YEAH, PERFECT. ALL RIGHT. ANYTHING ELSE?
>> DO WE HAVE THE MOTION TO ACCEPT THIS, RIGHT? THEY JUST THE LAW SAYS THAT IT HAS TO BE TO US, RIGHT? IT'S NOT LIKE WE HAVE TO VOTE?
>> IT MENTION THAT THE POLICE ACCOUNTABILITY BOARD DID VOTE AND APPROVE THIS REPORT.
>> OKAY. MOVE ALONG TO THE CONSENT AGENDA.
ANY QUESTIONS, CONCERNS, COMMENTS ABOUT ANYTHING ON THE CONSENT AGENDA?
[Consent Agenda]
>> YEAH, YOU GOT ANYTHING. CHRIS. YOU MIND COMING UP HERE AND MAKE ME FEEL GOOD ABOUT WHAT THIS SECURITY EXPENDITURE IS GOING TO DO.
>> WE PUT THIS FORWARD THIS YEAR.
WE'VE DONE THESE NETWORK TESTS IN THE PAST.
PREVIOUSLY, THEY'VE BEEN ANYWHERE FROM 30-40 THOUSAND.
WHEN I STARTED DOING THE QUOTES FROM LAST YEAR, THE PRICING CAME BACK IN BETWEEN, USUALLY 60-70.
THESE SORT OF TESTS ARE VERY IN DEPTH.
THE COMPANY THAT I REQUESTED TO GET IT DONE THIS YEAR IS A VERY REPUTABLE COMPANY.
THEY'VE BEEN DOING IT COUNTLESS YEARS.
THEY PRESENT AT ALL TIME ALL KINDS OF CYBERSECURITY SECURITY VENUES ALL THE TIME.
THEY ARE VERY SKILLED AT WHAT THEY DO.
SO THIS WILL BE A FULL EXTERNAL NETWORK TEST, INTERNAL NETWORK TEST.
THEY WILL DO A ASSUMED BREACH WHEN THEY TRY TO BREACH OR THEY DO BREACH THE NETWORK, WHAT SORT OF DATA, WHAT SORT OF INFORMATION WILL THEY GET? WHAT CAN THEY GET? THEN AT THE END, WHEN THIS IS ALL DONE, THEY'LL PRESENT IT TO US TO SEE WHAT THEY COULD GET TO, WHAT THEY CAN'T GET TO.
THESE SORT OF TESTS ARE VERY VALUABLE TO US.
THE AMOUNT OF VULNABILITIES THAT ARE FOUND IS JUST THEY'RE ENDLESS.
WE GET CONTACTED ENDLESSLY ABOUT AMOUNT OF VULNERABILITIES THAT EXIST IN THE WILD,
[01:15:06]
NOT NECESSARILY AFFECT US DIRECTLY, BUT TO HAVE THIS DONE ANNUALLY IS A HUGE BENEFIT TO US TO GET THIS DONE.I UNDERSTAND, YES, IT IS AN EXPENSE.
IT'S A OPERATING EXPENSE FOR US THAT WE DO EVERY YEAR.
>> BUT IT DOES GIVE US VERY GOOD RESULTS.
WE DO DEPEND ON THESE SORT OF THINGS TO GET DONE.
>> YEAH. AND IT'S IMPORTANT TO DO IT YEARLY BECAUSE NEW TECHNOLOGY COMES OUT.
SO LIKE WITH THE ADVENT OF ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE, RIGHT NOW THEY'RE USING THAT TO CRACK CODES AND GET IT.
>> IT'S COUNTLESS. FOR US, THE AMOUNT OF TIMES WE GET HIT IS ENDLESS.
I COULDN'T EVEN PUT A NUMBER ON IT.
I COULD, BUT IT WOULD BE ENDLESS.
>> SO THERE ARE ATTACKS THAT HAPPEN AGAINST CAROLINE COUNTY?
>> LOOKING UP ON LINE NOW, THEY DO A LOT OF STUFF.
>> IT'D BE INTERESTING. I MEAN, MAYBE THAT'S PROBABLY A CLOSED SESSION DISCUSSION.
BUT IT WOULD BE INTERESTING TO KNOW YOU KNOW THE RESULTS WHEN YOU GET IT BACK.
>> DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR CHRIS?
>> SOC, SECURITY OPERATION CENTER.
>> SO THEY LOOK JUST CONSTANTLY LOOK AT THREATS AND DEFINE IF THEY ARE WELL KNOWN OR IF IT'S SOMETHING THAT NEEDS TO BE ACTED UPON.
>> OKAY. I'LL ENTERTAIN A MOTION TO APPROVE THE CONSENT AGENDA.
>> MOTION AND SECOND. ALL THOSE IN FAVOR SAY, AYE.
THE AYES HAVE IT. COUNTY ADMINISTRATORS REPORT.
[County Administrator’s Report]
>> GOOD MORNING. I HAVE SEVERAL ITEMS FOR YOU, AND THEN I'M GOING TO ASK DANNY TO COME UP AND GIVE YOU AN UPDATE ON WHERE WE ARE WITH DAY SPRINGS JUST SO WE CAN KEEP THAT ON TRACK AND MOVING FORWARD, AND YOU'RE COMFORTABLE WITH WHERE WE ARE.
THE FIRST ITEM, I BELIEVE I'VE ALREADY TOLD YOU ALL INDIVIDUALLY OR MAYBE SENT A CANCELLATION THAT WE HAD TENTATIVELY SCHEDULED SECRETARY MCLWAIN FROM THE MARYLAND DEPARTMENT OF THE ENVIRONMENT TO COME ON THURSDAY FROM, I THINK, 10:00-01:00 IN THE MORNING FOR A TOUR.
THERE WAS A BREAKDOWN IN COMMUNICATION BETWEEN MYSELF AND OUR STAFF AND THEIR STAFF, AND WE HAVE DECIDED AS OF YESTERDAY TO RESCHEDULE THAT UNTIL THE SPRING.
THEY'VE BEEN SLAMMED, WE'VE BEEN SLAMMED, AND WE JUST DID NOT GET THE AGENDA TOGETHER.
ALSO, THEY ADVISED THAT THE SECRETARY IS NOT INTERESTED OR DOESN'T REALLY WANT TO, AND I DON'T BLAME HER.
WANT TO VISIT WASTEWATER TREATMENT FACILITIES, SO WHAT WE REALLY NEED TO DO PRIOR TO SPRING WHEN SHE DOES COME OUT IS FIGURE OUT WHERE OUR NDE, I GUESS, PIN POINTS ARE, WHERE WE COULD USE SOME ASSISTANCE, WHAT THINGS WE WOULD WANT TO SHOW HER.
NOT RELATED TO A WASTE WATER TREATMENT FACILITY.
ONE THING I THINK WE'VE TALKED ABOUT IS SEPTICS, WHICH IS A TOTALLY SEPARATE ISSUE FROM THE WASTEWATER TREATMENT FACILITIES AND WHATEVER ISSUES WE HAVE.
I'M NOT SURE WHAT THOSE ARE GOING TO BE.
BUT WE DO NEED TO COME UP WITH SOME THINGS.
SOME OF IT MIGHT JUST BE, I THOUGHT ABOUT THIS SOME LAST NIGHT.
THERE'S SUPPOSED TO BE A TOUR, BUT WE HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO SIT DOWN AND TALK WITH HER.
SO, IT MIGHT BE AN OPPORTUNITY TO SIT DOWN AND HASH OUT SOME ISSUES.
IT'S NOT SOMETHING WE CAN POINT TO TANGIBLY AND SAY, LOOK AT THIS.
I HAD AN IDEA, BUT I CAN'T REMEMBER WHAT IT WAS.
BUT ANYWAY, SO THAT IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN THIS THURSDAY.
I BELIEVE I DID SEND A CANCELLATION TO EACH OF YOU.
ON THAT NOTE, AND WE TALKED ABOUT THIS, I TALKED TO EACH OF YOU ABOUT THIS EARLIER, PART OF MY PHONE CALL WITH SECRETARY MCLWAIN STAFF, ALEX BUTLER.
WE WERE DISCUSSING THE CHESAPEAKE BAY ISSUES GENERALLY IN THE CLEAN CHESAPEAKE COALITION.
THERE'S SOME QUESTION ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT WE STILL WANT TO BE OR STILL ARE PART OF THE CLEAN CHEST PEAK COALITION.
I THINK THE OUTCOME OF THOSE DISCUSSIONS IS I'M GOING TO CALL RON FIAN THE CHAIR AND HAVE A CONVERSATION ABOUT WHAT THEY ARE CURRENTLY DOING.
WHAT OUR INVOLVEMENT IS, AND MAYBE AND I'LL FOLLOW UP WITH YOU ABOUT WHAT OUR INVOLVEMENT POTENTIALLY SHOULD OR COULD BE IN THAT ORGANIZATION OR THAT INITIATIVE.
THAT'S WHAT I'LL CALL IT. YOU'RE ALL GOOD WITH ME GIVING HIM A CALL?
[01:20:02]
GOOD NEWS. THE MRDC REIMBURSEMENT WAS RECEIVED THIS WEEK.I THINK YOU'RE ALL AWARE OF THAT ALSO.
BUT THAT HAS DEFINITELY BEEN A POINT OF CONTENTION AND DISCUSSION.
AT THIS POINT, THAT HAS BEEN REPAID, SO THAT'S GOOD.
FOLLOWING UP ON YOUR CONVERSATION WITH MARK SHERIDAN, THE DIRECTOR OF DEPARTMENT OF EMERGENCY SERVICES.
HE IS ATTEMPTING TO SCHEDULE A MEETING WITH THE VOLUNTEER FIRE COMPANIES REGARDING EMS OPERATIONS AND HOW THE COUNTY AND THE FIRE COMPANIES COULD POTENTIALLY WORK BETTER TOGETHER.
IF THERE'S ANY PLACES WE COULD WORK BETTER TOGETHER ON AN EMS. HE'S DEFINITELY TAKING STEPS IN THAT DIRECTION.
>> HAVE THEY ACTUALLY SET A DATE?
>> THAT'S WHAT HE SAID. HE TOLD ME LAST WEEK.
>> BECAUSE THE LAST E-MAIL I SAW, SOMEBODY COULDN'T ATTEND AND HE WAS STILL TRYING TO.
>> THE LAST THING I HAVE BEFORE I ASK DANNY TO COME UP IS JUST A VERY SHORT UPDATE ON THE CLOCK TOWER, JUST SO YOU GUYS ARE IN THE LOOP.
THE CLOCK FACES ARE NOT READY YET.
THE LAST UPDATE I HAVE IS THAT THEY COULD POSSIBLY BE READY BY TOMORROW.
THE CONTRACTOR IS JUST STILL WAITING FOR THOSE EXTRA TWO CLOCK FACES TO FINISH THE PROJECT, AND WE CAN GET, I GUESS, THE OUTHOUSE OUT OF OUR PARKING LOT AFTER THAT.
>> I WANT TO GIVE YOU A QUICK RUNDOWN.
PROBABLY BETWEEN STEWART AND I OF WATER DAY SPRINGS WHO IS OUT CURRENTLY AND WHOSE DOCUMENTS AND ITEMS ARE IN WHAT HANDS RIGHT NOW.
JUST TO GIVE YOU A QUICK TIMELINE.
AFTER THE APPROVAL OF THE PURCHASE AGREEMENT HERE BY THE BOARD, THE COUNTY ATTORNEY HAD DRAFTED THE REQUEST OF FIRST PURCHASE THAT HAD TO GO TO DHCD.
THAT WAS SENT OFF TO JOE PALER AT DCD ON NOVEMBER 24TH.
THEY RESPONDED WITH CONFIRMATION THAT THAT WAS RECEIVED AND ACKNOWLEDGED THAT THEY HAD SOME ITEMS THAT THEY NEEDED TO RETURN TO US, ESSENTIALLY, THE LIST OF WHO THAT WOULD GO TO.
AS OF TODAY, I HAVE NOT SEEN THAT WE'VE RECEIVED THE LIST OR ANY CONFIRMATION OR APPROVAL OF THE ROFP.
THAT ONE IS CURRENTLY SITTING WITH THEM.
SOME OF THE ITEMS IN THE PURCHASE AGREEMENT THAT WE MUST COMPLY WITH AS THE BOARD OR AS THE COUNTY ARE OUTLINED IN WHAT THEY CALL THE EXHIBIT B.
THAT IS REALLY WHAT I'VE TAKEN UP.
>> REAL QUICK. QUESTION THAT'S PROBABLY EASIER TO ASK THEM AS WE GO.
RIGHT OF FIRST PURCHASE FOR ROFP, THAT IS WITH THE CD RIGHT NOW.
THE 30-DAY CLOCK IT IS A 30-DAY CLOCK DOES NOT START UNTIL THEY PRODUCE THE EMAIL LIST AND GIVE US APPROVAL TO SEND IT OUT, CORRECT?
>> THAT'S CORRECT. MY INITIAL UNDERSTANDING IS THE 30 DAYS STARTS ONCE THAT HAS BEEN SENT OUT TO THE INDIVIDUALS THAT ARE ON THE RESPECTIVE LIST.
>> DO WE HAVE ANY IDEA OF WHEN WE CAN EXPECT THAT BACK BECAUSE EVERYTHING IS NOW WAITING ON THAT.
>> YES, ESSENTIALLY. WE CAN CERTAINLY FOLLOW UP WITH THEM.
THE LAST COMMUNICATION WAS RECEIVED.
WE OWE YOU THE LIST. WE'LL GET IT TO YOU.
>> HOW LONG AGO WAS THAT? THE 24TH OF NOVEMBER.
I THINK THEY RESPONDED WITHIN 24 HOURS, SO IT WAS EITHER SAME DAY OR THE 25TH.
YESTERDAY BEING THE SECOND, PROBABLY JUST AROUND A WEEK OR SO.
>> WE'LL GIVE THEM TILL THE END OF THE WEEK.
>> WE'LL CERTAINLY FOLLOW UP. ON EXHIBIT B, WHICH IS OUTLINED IN THE PURCHASE AGREEMENT.
THERE'S ABOUT TWO PAGES OF DOCUMENTS THAT THE COUNTY MUST PROVIDE TO THE POTENTIAL BUYER.
I'VE BEEN CREATING ESSENTIALLY A ONE DRIVE WITH FOLDERS OF ALL THE DOCUMENTS.
WE HAVE ABOUT A THIRD OF THE DOCUMENTS SPLIT BETWEEN FINANCE, OFFICE OF LAW, PLANNING AND CODES HAS HAD TO PULL CERTAIN THINGS.
THEN THE OTHER TWO THIRDS IS KEPT BY EAST COAST PROPERTY MANAGEMENT AND INVOLVES THE DAILY OPERATIONS, SO I'VE BEEN PROBABLY DAILY ENGAGED WITH THEM IN GETTING THOSE DOCUMENTS BEFORE WE HAD OUR SHORT THANKSGIVING BREAK.
I HAD ABOUT 90% OF THE FILE COMPLETED IT, SENT IT OVER TO THE POTENTIAL BUYER INFORMING, HEY, THIS IS THE BULK OF THE FILE.
I KNOW THERE'S THESE TWO OR THREE ITEMS LEFT.
THEY WERE HAPPY TO RECEIVE IT, OR STARTING THEIR REVIEW OF THAT, BUT THERE ARE A COUPLE ODD IN ITEMS THAT WE'RE MISSING FROM EAST COAST, WHICH, AGAIN, THEY HAVE ACKNOWLEDGED, THEY'RE WORKING ON GETTING.
I ALSO FOLLOWED UP WITH EAST COAST BECAUSE AS PART OF DCD'S REQUIREMENT,
[01:25:02]
THERE IS A OWNER AND MANAGEMENT ESSENTIALLY COMPLIANCE CERTIFICATE THAT STEWART HAD DRAFTED THAT WE HAVE TO SIGN AS THE OWNER, AND THEY MUST SIGN AS THE MANAGER THAT OUTLINES ABOUT TWO PAGES OF THINGS THAT WE ESSENTIALLY CANNOT DO WHY WE'RE GOING THROUGH THIS PROCESS.I SENT THAT TO THEM, I THINK AROUND THE SAME 24TH DATE AS DCD RECEIVED THEIR DOCUMENTS, HAVE NOT RECEIVED ANY RESPONSE BACK FROM THEM.
OTHER THAN THIS MORNING WHEN I FOLLOWED UP, JUST ASKING FOR AN UPDATE, THEY WERE PINGING EACH OTHER GOING, WHO SHOULD SIGN THIS? WHERE SHOULD THIS GO, SO HOPEFULLY, WE'LL HAVE THAT BACK.
>> NO. EAST COAST PROPERTY AS THE MANAGER.
AGAIN, TRYING TO CHECK OFF ALL OF THE BOXES FOR ALL THE DIFFERENT LETTERS AND DOCUMENTS THAT HAVE TO GO BETWEEN THE DIFFERENT PARTIES.
STEWART HAS BEEN AN INTEGRAL PART OF THAT, ESSENTIALLY BETWEEN HIM AND I OF TRYING TO CHASE DOWN ALL OF THESE LOOSE ENDS AND COMPLY WITH WHAT WE'RE NEEDING TO DO.
AGAIN, JUST A QUICK RUNDOWN OF WHERE WE ARE WITH THAT, IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS, SO WE'LL BE HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY.
>> SO RIGHT NOW, IT'S EAST COAST AND DECD.
IN THAT WEEK, WE HAVE HAD THANKSGIVING HOLIDAYS, SO I DON'T KNOW.
MAYBE WE WAIT AND GIVE THEM UNTIL EARLY NEXT WEEK, AND SEE WHERE THEY'RE AT IF WE DON'T HAVE ANYTHING.
>> IS IT GOOD? COUNTY COMMISSIONER OPEN DISCUSSION PERIOD, COMMISSIONER PORTER.
>> JUST A COUPLE OF ITEMS. IT'S BEEN A IT'S BEEN A PRETTY TOUGH WEEK DOWN IN THE SOUTHERN END OF THE COUNTY.
FRANK ITEMS PASSED AWAY, AND FRANK WAS INTEGRAL PART
[County Commissioners Open Discussion Period]
OF OUR ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT PROCESS HERE IN THE COUNTY.I MEAN, THERE'S NO COINCIDENCE THAT THE INDUSTRIAL PARK DOWN THERE IS NAMED FOR HIM.
HE WAS REALLY A VISIONARY WHEN IT CAME TO DEVELOPING THESE INDUSTRIAL PARKS AND BRINGING BUSINESSES IN BETWEEN HE AND JOCK WALSH, I THINK THEY WERE THE TWO PRIMARY PEOPLE WHO WERE RESPONSIBLE.
FRANK PASSED AWAY, AND HIS SERVICE WAS YESTERDAY.
I UNDERSTAND, WE LOST FORMER MAYOR OF FELSBURG, AND LONGTIME TEACHER CHUCK PLANNER.
CHUCK WAS A GOOD FRIEND AND A GOOD GUY, LONG TIME MEMBER OF THE FIRE DEPARTMENT, SO IT'S BEEN A PRETTY TOUGH WEEK DOWN THERE FOR PEOPLE.
I WILL MENTION, I'M GLAD WE WERE ABLE TO RECEIVE THE REIMBURSEMENT FROM MRDC.
I SHARED AN EMAIL, I THINK WITH EVERYBODY HERE THIS WEEK, ABOUT PROBLEMS WE'RE STILL HAVING UP THERE WITH THE ROOF LEAKING.
I WOULD IMAGINE THAT TODAY, THEY PROBABLY HAVE SOME, I DON'T KNOW THIS FOR A FACT, BUT THEY PROBABLY HAVE SOME CONTAINERS OUT CATCHING WATER, SO THAT IS SOMETHING THAT'S GOING TO HAVE TO BE ADDRESSED.
I'M NOT SURE I KNOW WE'RE STILL IN THE LEASE NEGOTIATION PART, BUT WE CAN'T CONTINUE TO HAVE LEAKS IN THAT IN THE LIBRARY.
WE'LL HAVE TO ADDRESS THAT AND FIGURE OUT WHERE WE'RE GOING TO GO FROM THERE. THAT'S ALL I HAVE. THANK YOU.
>> THE ONLY THING I HAVE IS THURSDAY.
THANKSGIVING DAY, I PARTICIPATED IN THE NEIGHBORS UNITED TO SERVE AND THEY PREPARED 900 MEALS TO GIVE TO FAMILIES.
IT WAS DOWN 100 MEALS, BUT ALSO, I BELIEVE AARON'S PLACE AND OTHER COMMUNITY PARTNERS HAVE STEPPED UP AND THEY REALLY PUT OUT THE MEALS THIS YEAR FOR NEEDED FAMILIES.
CAROLINA COUNTY DONE A GREAT JOB HELPING THE COMMUNITY. THAT'S ALL I HAVE.
>> WITH THE LIBRARY SITUATION, I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH KEVIN AND IF ROBIN SENDS KEVIN UP THERE OR ROBIN AND KEVIN GO UP THERE AND SCOPE IT OUT AND SEE WHAT'S GOING ON AND TRY TO HAVE THE LIBRARY.
THE LIBRARY OPERATES INDEPENDENT OF US, CORRECT? DO WE HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH MAINTENANCE OF THE BUILDING ACROSS THE ROAD?
[01:30:04]
NOT REALLY. UNLESS THEY HELP.UNLESS THEY ASK, BUT IF WE CAN GO UP AND PROVIDE THEM SOME TECHNICAL SUPPORT AND SEE ACTUALLY WHAT'S GOING ON THERE AND TO TRY TO GET IT FIXED, I'M NOT OPPOSED TO THAT IF YOU WANT TO GO THAT ROUTE.
>> I DON'T THINK MRDC HAS ANYBODY WITH THE BUILDING.
>> I THINK WE WOULD HAVE TO TALK TO MRDC BEFORE.
CRAWL AROUND THE BUILDING SINCE WE DON'T OWN IT.
>> WELL, THE LEAKS HAVE BEEN AN ONGOING PROBLEM, AND OF COURSE, WE WENT THROUGH THE HVAC SYSTEM AND THOUGHT THAT WAS PART OF THE PROBLEM.
THAT'S WHY I REACHED OUT TO JONAH TO FIND OUT, AND THEY APPARENTLY ARE STILL HAVING LEAKS.
WHEN HE SAYS SUBSTANTIAL RING.
I DON'T KNOW HOW SUBSTANTIAL IT HAS TO BE, BUT I KNOW I'VE BEEN UP THERE BEFORE WHEN THEY'VE GOT PLASTIC COVERING THINGS.
>> WELL, WHY DON'T WE RESPOND TO DANNY AND ASK HIM TO NOTIFY US THE NEXT TIME HE'S DOING IT.
WE'LL GET STAFF UP THERE TO LOOK AT IT AND DOCUMENT IT AND SEE WHAT'S GOING ON SO WE CAN USE THAT AS A PART OF THE LEASE NEGOTIATION MOVING FORWARD.
BUT THEY'VE GOT TO ADDRESS THAT FIRST IN THE NEW LEASE.
WE'LL BE AT THE LIGHTING OF THE GREEN PROBABLY THURSDAY NIGHT.
DO WE HAVE ANYTHING TO READ FOR THAT OR ANY INVOLVEMENT? NO. WELL, THAT HAPPENS THURSDAY NIGHT AT WHAT TIME? IT'S AFTER THE DENTON PARADE.
>> WHAT TIME IS THE LIGHT AFTER THE PARADE?
>> FOUR, AND IT'S AT THE HOUSE BIT. IS IT?
>> SO WE'RE JUST GOING TO MEET AROUND THERE.
>> THAT'S FINE. WE'LL GET THAT.
[OVERLAPPING] THEN WE HAVE THE CAROLINA FESTIVAL OF TREES FRIDAY AT THE TOWERS FAMILY MUSEUM.
>> AT THE TOWERS FAMILY MUSEUM.
WITH THAT, I WILL HAVE OUR CLOSING PUBLIC COMMENT PERIOD.
IS THERE ANYONE IN THE AUDIENCE WHO WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK? I DON'T SEE ANYONE. I WOULD ENTERTAIN A MOTION TO GO IN A CLOSED SESSION UNDER GENERAL PROVISIONS, ARTICLE 3-305 B7 AND 8 TO CONSULT WITH STAFF, CONSULT OR OTHER CONSULTANTS OR OTHER INDIVIDUALS ABOUT PENDING OR POTENTIAL LITIGATION.
WE ARE CLOSING THE MEETING TO DISCUSS THIS TOPIC BECAUSE PUBLIC DISCUSSION OF ANY THEORIES OF IMPOSING LIABILITY OR INTERPOSING DEFENSES, AND NEXT STEPS, WOULD ADVERSELY AFFECT THE COUNTY'S POSITION IN LITIGATION FURTHER.
[Closed Sesson General Provisions Art. § 3-305 (b): (7) & (8) To consult with staff, consultants, or other individuals about pending or potential litigation”. We are closing the meeting to discuss this topic because public discussion of any theories of imposing liability or interposing defenses, and next steps, would adversely affect the County’s position in litigation. Further, the Commissioners do not want to waive the attorney-client privilege.]
THE COMMISSIONERS DO NOT WANT TO WAIVE THE ATTORNEY-CLIENT PRIVILEGE.>> I MOVE WE GO TO A CLOSED SESSION.
>> MOTION AND SECOND. ROLL CALL VOTE. COMMISSIONER PORTER.
>> COMMISSIONER BREEDING, AYE.
>> AYE.
* This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.