Dec 10, 2025 Planning Commission

[00:00:31]

EVERYBODY GOT THEIR MICROPHONES.

TO THE DECEMBER PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING. PRESENT TONIGHT ARE PLANNING COMMISSION MEMBERS.

[Call to Order]

KEITH. MEMBER KEITH BILBROUGH. VICE CHAIRPERSON HANNAH CAWLEY AND MYSELF.

CHAIRMAN JEFF JACKSON. STAFF MEMBERS ARE ALL FROM PLANNING AND CODES IS ALSO HERE.

AND AS THEY SPEAK, THEY WILL INTRODUCE THEMSELVES.

SO 1ST ITEM ON THE AGENDA IS THIS CHABERTON SOLAR.

[Chaberton Solar Jabal - Final Site Plan]

OUR ASSISTANT DIRECTOR OF DEVELOPMENT REVIEW, MATT GORCZYNSKI.

READ HIS SUMMARY OF THE PROJECT. SO, MATT, CAN YOU GIVE US WE'RE HERE FOR FINAL REVIEW.

CAN YOU GIVE US A LITTLE BRIEFING ON IT? SURE.

SO THE APPLICANT, CHABERTON SOLAR JABAL, LLC, THEY'VE SUBMITTED A MAJOR SITE PLAN APPLICATION FOR A SMALL SCALE COMMERCIAL SOLAR ENERGY SYSTEM. IT'S A 2 MEGAWATT SYSTEM, APPROXIMATELY 26.28 ACRES IN SIZE.

IT'S LOCATED ON CLARK ROAD OUTSIDE THE TOWN OF FREDERICKSBURG.

IT'S ON TAX MAP 65, GRID 2, PARCEL 46. THIS USE REQUIRES A MAJOR SITE PLAN APPROVAL AS WELL AS A SPECIAL USE EXCEPTION APPROVAL.

THE BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS HELD A PUBLIC HEARING FOR THE SPECIAL USE APPLICATION ON MAY 20TH.

AND APPROVED THE APPLICATION. SO THE APPLICANT IS NOW SEEKING FINAL SITE PLAN APPROVAL.

THEY'VE BEEN THROUGH VARIOUS ITERATIONS OF THE REVIEW PROCESS OVER BASICALLY THE PAST YEAR.

THEY'VE HAD SOME CHANGES IN DESIGN A FEW TIMES.

THEY'VE CHANGED ENGINEERS MIDWAY THROUGH. SO AT THIS POINT, THE ONLY THING THAT'S THAT'S REALLY OUTSTANDING ARE THE TYPICAL THINGS THAT THAT WE REQUIRE AFTER FINAL SITE PLAN APPROVAL, WHICH IS RECORDATION OF THE LANDSCAPE MAINTENANCE AGREEMENT AND PROVIDING THE SURETIES SO THE LANDSCAPE SURETY AND THE DECOMMISSIONING BOND.

SO THOSE ARE THE ONLY THINGS THAT ARE OUTSTANDING. AND IF THE BOARD APPROVES, THEN THEY'LL MOVE FORWARD WITH THOSE 3ASPECTS.

AND EVERYTHING ELSE FROM, FROM A PLANNING PERSPECTIVE IS IS GOOD.

THEY'VE MET ALL THE REQUIREMENTS THAT WE'VE REQUIRED TO GET TO THIS POINT.

SO IF YOU'VE GOT ANY COMMENTS, QUESTIONS, CONCERNS FOR ME, FOR THE STAFF, I'D BE GLAD TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS.

IF NOT, WE CAN OPEN THE FLOOR TO THE APPLICANT AND THEY CAN PRESENT THEIR SITE PLAN APPLICATION.

DO YOU WANT TO ASK OR DO WE? I THINK WE HAVE, BUT I KNOW WE HAVE IN THE PAST.

WE REQUIRE A DECOMMISSIONING PLAN. YES. WHEN WILL WE SEE THAT? OR. I GUESS WE DIDN'T SEE IT IN THE PACKAGE. WE COULD.

WE WOULD BE ASKING THE APPLICANT THAT. I THOUGHT I INCLUDED IT, I GUESS I DID NOT.

LET'S SEE. OR MAYBE WE MISSED IT. YOU TELL US WHERE IT'S AT.

WE LOOK THROUGH HERE. NO, IT'S NOT IN HERE.

YEAH, IT WOULD BE. LET ME. I CAN FORWARD IT TO YOU.

GIVE ME A SECOND HERE. DID YOU GO OVER THERE? YES, YES. SO THE NUMBER, ALL THE NUMBERS MATCH? YES. RIGHT NOW, THE ONLY THING THAT'S OUTSTANDING WITH IT IS OFFICE OF LAWS IS LOOKING AT THE BOND TEMPLATE THAT THEIR FINANCIAL INSTITUTION HAS PROVIDED. SO THAT'S UNDER REVIEW. BUT YEAH, LET ME I'LL FORWARD YOU GUYS THE DECOMMISSIONING.

DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS ON THE ON THE DECOMMISSIONING? I'D JUST LIKE TO SAY BECAUSE I THINK THAT AFFECTS THE BOND AMOUNT, I BELIEVE.

YES. DECOMMISSIONING. YES. AND WE WERE TALKING ABOUT WHICH 1? IT WAS THE LAST 1 THAT WAS IN HERE THAT HAD A VERY DETAILED DECOMMISSIONING PLAN.

[00:05:07]

ALL RIGHT. ANYBODY ELSE HAVE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? IS THIS IS THIS THE ONE THAT WAS IN FEDERALSBURG GROWTH AREA? NO, NO, THAT'S THAT'S ANOTHER THAT'S THE ONE THAT WENT FOR THE CPCN APPLICATION.

THAT'S ON THE NORTH SIDE OF. OKAY. SO THIS IS 26 ACRES OF FARMLAND, RIGHT? YES. GONE. DID THE BZA HAVE ANYTHING? THEY DID NOT.

THEY MEET ALL THE SETBACKS OR THEY'D HAVE TO ASK.

I MEAN, THEY THEY MEET ALL THE SETBACK REQUIREMENTS.

SO THEY DIDN'T HAVE NOTHING. ARE THERE ANY PLANS OF EXPANSION BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT USING THE WHOLE PARCEL? CORRECT. NO, WE'VE NOT HAD ANY INDICATION THAT THEY PLAN ON EXPANDING.

SO HOW BIG THE PARCEL. IT'S 26 ACRE. THIS IS.

THEY'RE GOING TO DISTURB 26 ACRES, RIGHT? YEAH.

THE LOD IS 26, 28 ACRES. CALL OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD HOW BIG THE PARCEL IS. OH, MAYBE IT'S OKAY. I DON'T KNOW.

MAYBE I'M LOOKING AT IT WRONG.

I DON'T KNOW. IT LOOKS LIKE THEY'RE WELL OFF THE PROPERTY LINES.

AND LIKE YOU SAID, THEY'RE NOT USING ALL OF IT.

THEY GOT A WHOLE BOTTOM END OF IT HERE BECAUSE IT'S NOT COLOR.

SO IT'S HARD TO TELL. LIKE WHERE THE WOODS.

200 FOOT SETBACK. WHERE ARE THEY GOING TO ENTER? OFF CLARK CANYON HOUSE ROAD? YES. THERE'S AN EXISTING LANE THAT THEY ARE IMPROVING.

EXPANDING THE CULVERT TO MAKE IT A LITTLE BIT WIDER.

SHOULD WE HAVE THE APPLICANT COME IN? YEAH, IF YOU GOT ANYTHING THAT.

I JUST EMAILED YOU THE DECOMMISSIONING PLAN AND THE COST ESTIMATE.

OKAY. HE EMAILED. YOU EMAIL IT. HE. HE SAID HE JUST EMAILED IT TO YOU.

ALL RIGHT, FINE. I'LL FIGURE THAT OUT. GOT IT.

NO, YOU HAVE NO PROBLEMS. AND WE HAVE NOTHING OUTSTANDING ON THE PROPERTY OR WITH THE PROPERTY OWNERS OR.

YES, SIR. OKAY, THE APPLICANT HERE. PLEASE COME FORWARD AND TELL US WHATEVER YOU WANT TO TELL US.

YEAH, IT DID IT. IT'S ALREADY ON. IS IT ON? IT'S ON.

GOOD EVENING. MY NAME IS [INAUDIBLE]. I'M THE DIRECTOR OF DEVELOPMENT FOR [INAUDIBLE] ENERGY HERE TO PRESENT PRODUCTIONS, LLC. AND WITH ME IS TED HASTINGS. YES. MY NAME IS TED HASTINGS.

I'M A SENIOR ASSOCIATE WITH [INAUDIBLE], AND WE ARE THE CIVIL ENGINEERS FOR THIS PROJECT.

OKAY. SO PROJECT JABAL IS A 2 MEGAWATT AC SOLAR FACILITY THAT WILL BE DEVELOPED ON THIS APPROXIMATELY 64 ACRE PARCEL.

THE PROJECT, AS YOU NOTED, IS APPROPRIATELY SET BACK FROM THE PARCEL BOUNDARIES AND INCLUDES APPROXIMATELY 4000FT OF NEW LANDSCAPE BUFFER, WHICH IS GOING TO BE 35FT WIDE AND MADE UP OF DECIDUOUS AND EVERGREEN TREES AND SHRUBS.

THE PROJECT IS DESIGNED FOR AN UP TO 40 YEAR LIFESPAN, AND WILL BE MAINTAINED AND OPERATED ACCORDING TO INDUSTRY BEST PRACTICES.

AT THE CONCLUSION OF THE FACILITY'S OPERATION, THE SITE WILL BE RETURNED TO ITS PREVIOUS STATE.

ALL FACILITY COMPONENTS WILL BE REMOVED AND THE PROPERTY WILL RETURN SOIL DENSITIES TO THOSE CONSISTENT WITH THE SURROUNDING AREA.

THE LANDSCAPING WILL REMAIN. THE PROJECT WILL DONATE A TOTAL OF $10,000 TO CAROLINE COUNTY ORGANIZATIONS OR CHARITIES.

TO DATE, A DONATION HAS BEEN MADE TO THE PARENTS PLACE OF MARYLAND AND AVAILABLE FOR ANY OTHER QUESTIONS YOU HAVE.

[00:10:04]

THE PARCEL AND THAT ANSWERS YOUR QUESTION. 64 ACRES.

HOW MUCH OF THAT CLEARED? HOW MUCH IS LEFT? IS WOODS AND OPEN LAND.

THERE IS NOT ANYTHING QUALIFIED AS FOREST OR WOODS ON THE BORDER OF THE PROPERTY.

THE REMAINDER IS AGRICULTURAL LAND AND WILL CONTINUE TO BE FARMED BY THE WINDOW.

SO THAT'S WHAT THEY'RE GOING TO DO AT THE BOTTOM THEN. SO THERE'S NO PLANS TO EXPAND IT. ARE YOU TRYING TO KEEP UNDER THE 2 MEGABYTE? I DON'T, I MEAN, I DON'T NEED ALL THIS STUFF.

I MEAN. I CAN'T REALLY SAY NO. NO, BUT WE HAVE TO GO THROUGH THE 7.

YES, WE HAVE TO GO THROUGH. I DON'T I MEAN, DO Y'ALL HAVE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR THEM? I MEAN, MATT DOES A REALLY GOOD JOB OF SCREENING THIS FOR US.

SO. AND IF I COULD CONVINCE HIM TO SEND ME THAT, CAN YOU SEND THAT TO MY MY EMAIL I CAN'T EMAIL IS ON HERE FOR SOME REASON.

NOT TO. YOU WANT TO LOOK AT THAT? I DO, I'D KIND OF LIKE TO LOOK AT IT. CAN I CAN I WALK THIS OUT? YEAH. YEAH. HE'D LIKE TO LOOK AT THE THE DECOMMISSIONING PLAN.

HE. SHE'S GOT THE COFFEY TO DECOMMISSION IT. OKAY.

DO YOU MIND IF I ASK YOU? WHILE YOU'RE LOOKING AT THAT, WE'LL GO THROUGH OUR 8 THINGS. HOW ABOUT THAT? 7. 8. 8. OKAY. 8.

OKAY. MATT, CAN YOU HELP US WITH THAT? BEFORE WE APPROVE THIS.

WE HAVE TO GO THROUGH. WE HAVE 8 FOR TO MEET OUR CODE.

WE HAVE 8 AREAS THAT WE HAVE TO GO THROUGH. AND AGAIN, MATT DOES A GOOD JOB OF PREPARING US AN ANSWER FOR ALL 8 OF THEM.

SO. THE 1ST 1 IS COMPLIANCE WITH THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN.

AND DURING THEIR REVIEW PROCESS, THEY HAVE SAID THAT THIS COMPLIES WITH OUR COMPREHENSIVE PLAN.

CORRECT. THAT'S CORRECT. AND IT COMPLIES WITH DESIGN STANDARDS THAT WE USE FOR SOLAR PROJECTS.

YES IT DOES. THE 3RD IS ACCESS AND TRAFFIC CIRCULATION.

SO BASED ON INFORMATION, THEY DO NOT BELIEVE THERE'S ANY THE PROPOSED USE WILL HAVE ANY IMPACT ON TRAFFIC CIRCULATION.

THE EFFECTS ON SURROUNDING DEVELOPMENT. YOU'VE GOT NO COMPLAINTS FROM NEIGHBORS? NO COMPLAINTS, NO COMPLAINTS FROM NEIGHBORS. AND IT'S NOT GOING TO CREATE ANY HARDSHIP.

THEY'RE FARMING IT NOW. AND IT'S IT'S KIND OF OFF THE BEATEN PATH ANYWAY, ISN'T IT? YES. THERE'S NOT MANY DWELLINGS AROUND. YEAH.

IT'S NOT. IT'S NOT LIKE RIGHT ON 404. NO EFFECT ON COMMUNITY. WE HAVE EFFECTS ON COMMUNITY FACILITIES.

THERE'S NO EFFECT ON COMMUNITY FACILITIES. TECHNICAL ADVISORY COMMITTEE.

THERE'S NO EFFECT ON COMMUNITY FACILITIES IMPACT.

NO. NO IMPACT ON HISTORIC RESOURCES. NO IMPACT ON OPEN SPACE REQUIREMENTS.

AVAILABLE UTILITIES. NUMBER 8 AVAILABLE UTILITIES.

THERE'S NO INDICATION THAT THE PROPOSED USE WILL HAVE ANY IMPACT ON ANY PUBLIC UTILITIES.

SO AND I DON'T KNOW HOW CLOSE THAT IS TO A TRANSMISSION LINE BUT.

AND IT'S WELL OFF. IT'S WELL OFF THAT HIGHWAY, ISN'T IT? AND. YEAH. AND IT. ISN'T THERE TREES ON THAT HIGHWAY? YOU CAN'T EVEN SEE THE PROPERTY FROM FEDERALSBURG HIGHWAY.

RIGHT. YOU CAN SEE THE. YOU CAN'T SEE. THE FORCE IS FAIRLY THICK THERE THAT HEDGEROWS PRETTY THICK.

BECAUSE WHEN I WENT BY THERE THE OTHER DAY, I WAS LOOKING TO SEE IF I COULD SEE THE OPEN FIELD. AND I COULDN'T SEE THE FIELD. YEAH, IT'S PRETTY THICK. SO.

[00:15:01]

AND DURING MATT'S REVIEW OF THIS PROCESS AND WORKING WITH THE THE ENGINEERS, HE'S ANSWERED ALL 8 QUESTIONS FOR US AND THERE'S NO IMPACT ON IT, COMPLIES WITH OUR STANDARDS AND COMPLIES WITH OUR COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, AND THERE'S NO IMPACT.

SO UNLESS ANYBODY HAS ANY QUESTIONS ON THOSE 8 THAT PARTS DONE.

DID WE NOT SEE THIS AS A PRELIMINARY. WE SHOULD HAVE SEEN IT SOMEWHERE BECAUSE IT IT SEEMED IT CAME TO US AND THEN WENT TO [INAUDIBLE] OKAY, I DIDN'T I DON'T RECALL THIS ONE. SO BECAUSE IT AGAIN, THIS WAS THE ONE THAT WAS KIND OF SITTING IN THE IN IN THE SETBACKS.

AND IT'S 2 MEGAWATTS. AND SO ANY QUESTIONS HOW MUCH IS IT GOING TO COST TO DECOMMISSION THE SITE.

THAT'S NOT IN HERE. THE COST ESTIMATE IS SHOULD BE ON THE SECOND PAGE.

THAT'S THAT'S THE COST ESTIMATE FOR CONSTRUCTION ISN'T IT.

SO, SO THE BOND WILL BE BASED ON $1 MILLION? YES.

OKAY.

YOU GOOD? YEAH. OKAY. AS LONG AS THAT'S THE CASE, AS LONG AS THAT'S THE CASE, WE STICK TO THAT.

THAT'S. YEAH, I'M GOOD WITH THAT. YOU GOT THAT, MATT? YEAH. THE THE NUMBERS PROVIDED IN THE IN THE DECOMMISSIONING PLAN ARE PRETTY CONSISTENT ACROSS MULTIPLE PROJECTS OF VARYING SCALES.

SO IT'S DEFINITELY CONSISTENT WITH THE NUMBERS THAT WE'VE SEEN AND APPROVED IN THE PAST. OKAY.

AND YOU YOU'VE BEEN GETTING THE BONDS HAVE BEEN FOR THEIR DECOMMISSIONING AMOUNT, RIGHT? YES. HOW'S THAT? HOW HAVE THEY BEEN PUTTING UP BONDS? IT'S USUALLY THROUGH A FINANCIAL INSTITUTION.

YEAH, BUT I MEAN, IT'S A PERCENTAGE. TYPICALLY IT'S A PERCENTAGE OF WHAT THE VALUE IS.

AND THE SURETY COMPANIES SAYING THAT THEY'RE GOING TO BASICALLY PAY THE BILL IF THEY DON'T, BECAUSE IN 40 YEARS IT'S GOING TO BE JUNK. YEAH.

THE INDUSTRY STANDARD INTERNET BOUGHT IT. THAT BOND CHANGES LIKE THAT? NO. OR DOES IT? THE AMOUNT TO DECOMMISSION THE SITE IS WHAT CAN CHANGE WOULD BE THE VALUE OF THE PANELS, THE EQUIPMENT, AND HOW MUCH IS IT GOING TO COST TO TAKE THE CONCRETE TO THE LANDFILL? THOSE KIND OF THINGS CHANGE. BUT I THINK THEY PROJECTED OUT.

YEAH, THEY PROJECTED OUT. THE INDUSTRY STANDARD IS IS REALLY MAKING A REASSESSMENT EVERY 5 YEARS.

SO WHAT WHAT CONCERNS ME NOT NECESSARILY ON THIS PROJECT, BUT JUST IN GENERAL WITH ALL THE SOLAR THAT'S GOING IN AND THE NATURE OF SOLAR GETTING SOLD TO DIFFERENT PEOPLE, TO DIFFERENT PEOPLE, TO DIFFERENT PEOPLE, THAT THE COUNTY IS GOING TO GET STUCK TAKING DOWN SOLAR.

WELL, AND IF SOMETHING AND WE'RE ALL LEARNING, WE'RE ALL LEARNING NOW BECAUSE IT'S NEW, BUT 20 YEARS.

I MEAN, I DO REMEMBER, I DO REMEMBER THERE WAS ONE THAT WAS RIGHT ACROSS FROM THE VFW THAT WAS ABANDONED FOR 20 YEARS BEFORE THEY SOMEBODY TOOK IT OUT. SO YOU KNOW. IT'S WELL IT THEY PUT UP THE BARN.

YEAH. WE'RE COVERED. AND THEN THEY SELL IT BECAUSE WHAT, HOW MANY TIMES DID THAT BIG ONE BEEN SOLD UP THERE.

IF THEY SELL IT THEN WHO PICKS UP THE BARN. I MEAN THAT'S GOING TO BE MORE INTO THE LEGAL END OF IT, BUT I'M GOING TO HAVE TO ASSUME THAT THE THE NEXT COMPANY, CORRECT, THAT THE BOND WOULD STAY WITH THE PROJECT.

IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE WITH THE OWNER OF THE FACILITY.

SO. SO IF THEY SELL IT AND THEY GO, BY THE WAY, YOU GOT TO PICK UP THE BOND, DO WE GET NOTIFIED? WE SHOULD GET NOTICE THAT THAT TRANSFERS BECAUSE WE'RE WE'RE NAMED IN THE BOND.

CORRECT. WE'RE NAMED IN THE BOND. OKAY. NOW THE OFFICE OF LAW IS WORKING ON SOME DOCUMENTATION THAT WE'RE GOING TO IMPLEMENT ON FUTURE PROJECTS TO HELP ALLEVIATE SOME OF THAT CONCERN WITH TRANSFERS AND HOW THAT BONDING SHOULD TAKE PLACE.

AND IT HAS, HAS TO DO WITH OWNERSHIP OF BASICALLY THE RIGHTS TO THE EQUIPMENT.

SO WE'RE WORKING ON THAT. THIS HAS BEEN HAPPENING SO FAST THAT WE'RE ALWAYS PLAYING CATCH UP.

YEAH. YEAH. Y'ALL HAVE ANYTHING ELSE? ANYBODY GOT ANY OTHER QUESTIONS OF MATT OR THE ENGINEERS?

[00:20:10]

AND EXPLAIN TO ME THE DIFFERENCE. ARE YOU WOULD YOU LIKE TO DO THAT SOMEWHERE.

BECAUSE THESE GUYS ARE BENEFITING THE COMMUNITY.

CAROLINE COUNTY OKAY. YEAH, YEAH, I WOULD LIKE TO HAVE SOME SOLAR THAT POWERED SOMETHING AROUND HERE INSTEAD OF SENDING POWER TO FLORIDA. LOOK AT THAT. OKAY.

THAT'S HERE FOR FINAL SITE PLAN APPROVAL. SO WOULD ANYBODY LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION? I MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE THE MAJOR SITE PLAN APPLICATION FOR CHAMBERTON JABAL PROJECT.

WE HAVE A MOTION ON THE FLOOR. IS THERE A SECOND? I'LL SECOND.

WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND. ALL IN FAVOR OF THE FINAL SITE PLAN FOR THE SOLAR PROJECT.

SAY I RAISE YOUR RIGHT HAND. AYE. ALL OPPOSED? SAME. HEARING NONE. FINAL SITE PLAN APPROVAL HAS BEEN APPROVED.

THANKS SO MUCH, MATT. DO YOU NEED ANYTHING ELSE FROM THESE? NO, I'VE GOT TO. I'VE GOT TO GET YOU GUYS A LANDSCAPE MAINTENANCE AGREEMENT TO DO.

I'LL SEND THAT TO YOU TOMORROW. I'M NOT SURE.

I'LL HAVE TO FOLLOW UP WITH OUR ATTORNEY. MAKE SURE I'LL LET YOU KNOW.

YEP. ALL RIGHT. THE NEXT ITEM ON THE

[Comprehensive Plan - Draft Priority Preservation Area Chapter]

LESLIE. PROVIDING MY NAME. SO YOU ALL HAVE, THE CLEAN COPY OF THE DRAFT CHAPTER THAT WILL GO OVER IN A SECOND.

AND THEN YOU ALSO HAVE THE RED LINE VERSION, WHICH IS EDITS MADE TO THE 2010 PLAN CHAPTER.

AND LIKE WE'VE DONE BEFORE, WE'LL GO OVER THE OBJECTIVES AND THEN WE'LL TAKE A LOOK AT THE IMPLEMENTATION STRATEGIES.

AND THEN IF YOU ALL HAVE ANY EDITS THAT YOU'D LIKE TO MAKE OR SUGGESTIONS THAT CAN BE ADDED I MAY TWEAK IT A LITTLE BIT MORE AND THEN WE'LL BRING IT BACK FOR THE FINAL REVIEW IN JANUARY. SO, YOU KNOW, IF YOU'VE GOT ANY INPUT YOU WANT TO TO INCLUDE IN HERE JUST LET ME KNOW.

SO THE OBJECTIVES IN THE IN THIS CURRENT DRAFT CHAPTER HAVE BEEN UPDATED.

IF YOU LOOKED AT THE RED LINE CHAPTER, YOU CAN SEE A LOT OF WHAT WE HAD IN THERE, BOTH IN THE OBJECTIVES AND THEN BACK IN THE IMPLEMENTATION STRATEGIES ARE EITHER ACCOMPLISHED OR IRRELEVANT NOW IN 2025. SO WE PUT THE EMPHASIS HERE ON PRESERVATION OF THE REMAINING PRIORITY PRESERVATION AREA.

BACK WHEN THIS CHAPTER WAS DONE IN 2010, IT WAS NEW.

THE PRIORITY PRESERVATION AREA WAS A NEW CHAPTER FOR THE COMP PLAN, AND WE ORIGINALLY ESTABLISHED IT THROUGH MOST OF THE COUNTY.

I CAN'T REMEMBER WHAT THE PERCENTAGE OF LAND AREA WAS, BUT IT WAS SUBSTANTIAL.

AND THEN IN 2015, IT WAS REVISED TO REFLECT CHANGES WE'D DONE IN THE ZONING CODE UPDATE.

WHEN WE DESIGNATED THE VILLAGE NEIGHBORHOOD AND VILLAGE CENTER DISTRICTS WE WE CHANGED SOME R-RESIDENTIAL AND R-1 ZONING. WE TOOK OUT LAND THAT WAS IN PERMANENT PRESERVATION ALREADY, AND THE ACREAGE OF THE PRIORITY PRESERVATION AREA WENT FROM ABOUT 176,000 ACRES IN 2010 TO ABOUT 126,000 ACRES IN 2015, AND IT HASN'T CHANGED SINCE THEN. WE'VE DISCUSSED INTERNALLY THE NEED TO UPDATE IT.

UPDATE THE ACREAGE OF THE PRIORITY PRESERVATION AREA PERIODICALLY TO TAKE OUT ACRES THAT ARE IN PERMANENT PRESERVATION BECAUSE THEY'VE BEEN PERMANENTLY PRESERVED.

SO WHICH WOULD NECESSARILY SHRINK THE PRIORITY PRESERVATION AREA.

I DON'T KNOW HOW YOU ALL FEEL ABOUT THAT. IT MAKES SENSE.

[00:25:02]

I MEAN, FROM A FROM A PLANNING PERSPECTIVE, THE PRIORITY PRESERVATION AREA IS, IS SUPPOSED TO BE AN AREA THAT YOU TARGET FOR PRESERVATION.

SO ONCE YOU ACTUALLY GET A PROPERTY UNDER EASEMENT THAT'S PRESERVED, IT SHOULDN'T REALLY BE INCLUDED IN YOUR PPA.

IF YOU ACCOMPLISHED WHAT THE GOAL. RIGHT. AND IT KIND OF FOCUSES YOUR ATTENTION ON WHAT'S LEFT TO BE DONE.

SO HOW MUCH AREA THAT YOU'VE GOT TO ACTUALLY TRY TO PRESERVE AS OPPOSED TO.

WELL, OR IT'S 165,000. WELL REALLY IT'S 127. YEAH, 50,000 OF THOSE ARE ALREADY PRESERVED.

SO YOU'RE SHRINKING YOUR PRIORITY AREAS BECAUSE YOU PRESERVE BECAUSE YOU'RE PRESERVING.

RIGHT. SO THAT MAY BE SOMETHING THAT WE MIGHT WANT TO ADD TO THIS CHAPTER, MAYBE JUST A PARAGRAPH THAT MAYBE IT FOLLOWS MOUTH CYCLES, WHICH ARE 1 OR 2 YEARS WHERE YOU WE COME BEFORE YOU AND PROPOSE THE REVISION OF THE PRIORITY PRESERVATION AREA TO REMOVE PROPERTIES THAT HAVE BEEN PERMANENTLY PRESERVED.

EVERY COUPLE OF YEARS. I DON'T KNOW IF WE WANT TO DO IT EVERY YEAR, BUT MAYBE EVERY COUPLE OF YEARS.

MAYBE WITH OUR 5 YEAR RECERTIFICATION. OH, THERE YOU GO.

SO, OKAY, SO THE MARYLAND AGRICULTURAL LAND PRESERVATION PROGRAM HAS TO BE RECERTIFIED AT THE COUNTY LEVEL EVERY 5 YEARS.

SO THAT IS A GREAT IDEA. AND IN FACT, IT WAS DURING A RECERTIFICATION THAT THE 2015 REVISION TO THE PPA HAPPENED.

SO THAT'S WHAT I'LL ADD. THAT'S ONE THING TO ADD.

WHERE I MAY HAVE SOME NEW NUMBERS FOR YOU BECAUSE I FOUND MANY EASEMENTS DID NOT APPEAR ON THE 2024 DATING BACK TO 2020. OKAY, SO WE'LL REVISE THAT TOTAL NUMBER ALSO.

OKAY. SO THE RECERTIFICATION IS HAPPENING NOW, RIGHT? YEAH, WE'RE WORKING ON IT NOW. OKAY. SO WE MAY BE BACK IN SPRING NEXT YEAR WITH A REVISED ACREAGE BASED ON THE NEW MOUTH EASEMENTS THAT HAVE BEEN SETTLED.

OKAY. SO I'LL ADD A PARAGRAPH THAT SAYS THAT THE PLANNING COMMISSION WILL REVIEW AND ASSESS UPDATING THE ACREAGE OR, OR UPDATING THE PPA ACREAGE BASED ON EASEMENTS THAT CAN COME OUT, PROPERTIES THAT CAN COME OUT BECAUSE THEY'RE UNDER EASEMENT.

AND ALSO OTHER EASEMENTS RIGHT. OKAY. NATURE CONSERVANCY. RIGHT. I'M JUST MAKING A NOTE.

SO YOUR MAP SHOWS EVERYTHING THAT'S IN PERMANENT EASEMENT.

EVERYTHING THAT'S RURAL LEGACY. MARYLAND ENVIRONMENTAL TRUST AND MOUTH.

HANG ON A MINUTE. SO. RIGHT. THE FIRST MAP SHOWS JUST THE PROPERTY PRESERVATION AREA, SO YOU CAN GET AN IDEA OF THE BREADTH OF IT, AND IT'S SUBSTANTIAL. THE WHITE AREAS. I WAS GOING TO ASK YOU THAT.

EVERYBODY WANTS TO KNOW. YOU CAN KIND OF LOOK AT THE PAGE RIGHT BEFORE THAT MAP, AND YOU'LL SEE A BULLETED LIST OF ALL THE THINGS THAT WERE TAKEN OUT OF THE ORIGINAL PPA.

SO THE TDR RECEIVING AREA, WHICH IS THAT BIG SWATH BETWEEN GREENSBORO AND DENTON TOWN GROWTH AREAS, WE TOOK OUT OF THE PRESERVATION AREA BECAUSE THAT'S WHERE GROWTH WILL BE DIRECTED.

RURAL VILLAGES AND THE RURAL VILLAGE ZONING BECAUSE I DON'T REMEMBER.

THE RURAL VILLAGE ZONING EXTENDS BEYOND THE PFA BOUNDARY OF THE RURAL VILLAGES, SO THOSE WERE SUBSTANTIAL.

A MOBILE HOME ZONING OR 1 OBVIOUSLY ANYTHING THAT WAS NOT R, AND THEN ALSO THE PROPERTIES THAT ARE UNDER PERMANENT EASEMENT.

SO THOSE ARE THE WHITE SPOTS. IT'S A BIG WHITE SPOT DOWN WHERE.

OTTAWA. OTTAWA. OTTAWA. OH OKAY. OH RIGHT. IF IT'S STATE IF IT'S A STATE PARK LIKE MARTINAK OTTAWA TUCKAHOE.

WE CAN'T WE CAN'T PUT THEM IN OUR PRIORITY PRESERVATION AREA BECAUSE WE DON'T OWN THEY ARE STATE PROPERTY.

CHESAPEAKE FOREST LANDS. OH, YEAH, THAT'S ANOTHER ONE.

WE COULD NEVER DO THAT. CAN WE PUT SOLAR DOWN THERE? THEY PROBABLY WILL.

I WOULDN'T BE SURPRISED IF IF THEY ALLOWED IT TO SOME EXTENT.

[00:30:06]

SO THAT SECOND MAP. WE JUST WANTED TO SHOW AS A REFERENCE.

OF THE IMPACT ALREADY TO THE PRIORITY PRESERVATION AREA FROM SOLAR DEVELOPMENT.

IS NUMBER 3 ON THERE, CORRECT? SOLAR. CHABERTON SOLAR PAJAR.

YEAH. THAT SHOULD BE RIGHT OUTSIDE OF. OH, THAT'S.

YES. NO. HE MIXED THEM UP. OH NO HE DIDN'T. HE PUT.

NOPE. IT IS NOT CORRECT. GOOD CATCH KEITH. WHAT IS.

OH YEAH. SO WHERE IS THAT AT. THAT IS SOLAR.

RIGHT. HE HAS IT OUTSIDE OF GOLDSBORO. SO THERE'S 2 CHATTERTON'S, NUMBER 2 AND NUMBER 3.

BOTH IN RIGHT. AND THAT'S ACTUALLY WHERE HE HAS NUMBER 6.

YEAH. THE NUMBERS ARE ALL MESSED UP. THE NUMBERS ARE GOOFED UP.

SO. OH NO OKAY. THAT'S 1 DOWN OF RELIANCE RIGHT.

THAT NUMBER 6 DOWN IN THE CORNER OF THE COUNTY SHOULD BE NUMBER 2.

NO. THE ONE ALL THE WAY AT THE BOTTOM IS GROUNDSTAR.

THAT'S CORRECT. OH, OKAY. NO I'M SORRY. NUMBER 1 SHOULD BE NUMBER 2.

YES. NUMBER 1. NUMBER 2 SHOULD BE NUMBER 3. YEAH.

NUMBER 1 IS 4. THEY'RE ALMOST I DON'T KNOW WHY THEY'RE ALL MESSED UP, BUT.

SORRY. WE SHOULD HAVE SHOWN YOU. YEAH. SO THIS WILL BE REVISED.

WE CAN REVISE THAT. I JUST SAW 2 WITH THE SAME SIMILAR NAME.

RIGHT. BECAUSE THAT'S THE SOLAR COMPANY IS CHABERTON.

COMPANY OKAY. YEAH. YEAH. THE PAJAR IS THE 1 THAT THEY WENT FOR THIS ONE.

ANOTHER LITTLE. THIS DON'T MAKE ANY DIFFERENCE. BUT THEY'VE GOT 18 ACRES AND THEY'VE GOT 3 MEGAWATTS.

AND THE 2 ACRE ONE'S ONLY GOT TWO OR THE 25 ACRES GOT IS THAT I MEAN, YEAH, IT'S ALL ABOUT HOW THEY DESIGNED THE SYSTEM AND THE STUFF THAT THEY'RE USING.

WHAT'S HALO. IS THAT A LONG STANDING 1 OR IS THAT A NEW 1.

THAT'S 1 THAT'S UNDER CPCN REVIEW. THEY HAVEN'T APPLIED WITH US YET.

THERE'S A COUPLE ON HERE THAT ARE UNDER CPCN REVIEW.

DENTON PINE, SOLAR, HALO. THOSE 2 ARE BOTH UNDER REVIEW RIGHT NOW THAT THEY HAVEN'T APPLIED WITH US.

AND THE HALO IS GOING TO BE THAT UP THERE BY GOLF CARTS.

YES. YES, THAT'S THAT'S HIS JACK BROWN. DON'T DO ANOTHER ONE NORTH OF THE GOLF CART BUSINESS IN GOLDSBORO.

KIND OF SEMI ACROSS FROM CASTLE HALL FARMS. SO THERE'S THAT NUMBER 7.

THEN IN THE RIGHT PLACE IS THAT HALO IN BETWEEN GOLDSBORO AND HENDERSON.

YES. YES. OKAY. YES. IT'S A BIG FIELD.

WHERE'S DENTON GOING? THAT'S OUT IN HOBBS. IS THAT BILL BURR ROAD AND.

OH, THAT'S THE WHO, NOT BILL ROAD. NO, THAT'S THE WAR FARM UP.

CORCORAN. CORCORAN. YEAH. YEAH.

SO, AND THEN THE 3RD MAP ON PAGE 6 ILLUSTRATES SPECIFICALLY THE PERMANENT EASEMENTS THAT ARE EITHER MOUTH OR RURAL LEGACY OR MARYLAND ENVIRONMENTAL TRUST. AND WE'LL UPDATE THAT WITH WHATEVER NEW INFO CATHERINE HAS.

AND YOU HAVE ALL THE RURAL VILLAGES MARKED ON HERE.

RIGHT. YEAH. IT KIND OF GIVES YOU AN IDEA OF THE HOW THE PFA BOUNDARY, WHICH IS, WHICH IS THE RURAL VILLAGE BOUNDARY DOESN'T NECESSARILY ALIGN WITH THE ZONING. SO THE VILLAGE CENTER, VILLAGE NEIGHBORHOOD ACTUALLY EXPANDS OUT BEYOND THE PFA.

SO THIS SORT OF GIVES YOU AN IDEA OF ALL OF THAT LAND THAT YOU THAT IS WHITE ON THAT FIRST MAP.

WE WANTED YOU TO SEE. WHAT HOW MUCH OF THAT IS ACTUAL, PERMANENT, PERMANENTLY PROTECTED FARMLAND? IT MAKES IT LOOK BETTER. I KNOW IT DOES. WE HAD TO HAVE A HAPPY THING IN HERE.

IT'S ALL VISUAL. SO ANOTHER NEW ADDITION IS IN ADDITION TO THE RENEWABLE ENERGY CERTAINTY ACT STUFF FROM THE STATE. WE ADDED THE COUNTY'S NEW AG COMPENSATE THE PERMANENT EASEMENT COMPENSATION FUND AS ANOTHER SOURCE OF FUNDING

[00:35:09]

I ALSO NOTED, BECAUSE IT'S A 5 YEAR HIT TO THOSE PROGRAMS, THAT THE RURAL LEGACY AND MALPF ARE GOING TO BE REDUCED FUNDING FOR THE NEXT 4 FISCAL CYCLES, WHICH WILL IMPACT OUR ABILITY TO PUT PERMANENT EASEMENTS ON THE GROUND.

I WANTED THAT NOTED IN HERE. AND THEN IF YOU MOVE TO PAGE 8 WHERE WE HAVE THE IMPLEMENTATION STRATEGIES, OBVIOUSLY WE'RE GOING TO BE WORKING WITH OTHER COUNTIES AND MACO AROUND THE STATE AT LEGISLATION THAT CAN MAYBE PULL BACK SOME OF THE STATE'S OVERREACH ON REQUIRING SOLAR IN THE PRIORITY PRESERVATION AREA.

WE WE HAVE THE ABILITY WITHIN OUR OWN MALPF PROGRAM TO PUT IN OUR OWN CRITERIA OR ADD OUR CRITERIA TO THE MALPF CRITERIA FOR RANKING PROPERTIES TO GET FUNDED FOR PERMANENT EASEMENTS.

SO ONE THING WE DISCUSSED IN THE LAST PLAN AND I DON'T THINK THAT IT EVER WAS IMPLEMENTED, WAS ADDING POINTS. IF YOUR PROPERTY IS LOCATED IN THE PRIORITY PRESERVATION AREA TO KIND OF MOVE YOU UP AS A, AS A PROPERTY ELIGIBLE FOR AN EASEMENT WE'LL CONTINUE TO WORK WITH EASTERN SHORE LAND AND CONSERVANCY AND SEE IF WE CAN HAVE. I KNOW THAT THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT EXPANDING THE RURAL LEGACY AREAS, EVEN THOUGH THEY'RE LOOKING AT A FUNDING REDUCTION.

SO ONE THING WE CAN DO IS WORK WITH THEM TO GIVE THEM OUR GIS DATA ON THE LOCATION OF WHERE OUR PRIORITY PRESERVATION AREA IS, SO THAT WHEN THEY'RE LOOKING AT POTENTIAL LOCATIONS TO EXPAND THE RURAL LEGACY AREA, THEY CAN COINCIDE AND, AND MAKE SURE IT'S IN OUR PRIORITY PRESERVATION AREA OR AS CLOSE AS IT CAN BE.

AND THEN KIND OF REPEATING ONE OF OUR GOALS FROM THE LAND USE ELEMENT, WHICH IS AGAIN, TO PROTECT THE PRIORITY PRESERVATION AREA AND AG LAND AND WORK WITH TOWNS TO FOCUS GROWTH AND DEVELOPMENT IN MUNICIPAL GROWTH AREAS AND NOT OUT IN THE RURAL AREA OF THE COUNTY.

AND THEN FINALLY AS PART OF OUR COMPREHENSIVE REZONING PROCESS, WE WANT TO TALK ABOUT LOOKING FOR OPPORTUNITIES TO EXPAND.

COMMERCIAL AND BUSINESS OPPORTUNITIES FOR FARMERS ON THEIR FARMS. TO TRY AND GIVE THEM SOMETHING THAT COMPETES WITH SELLING OUT TO A SOLAR DEVELOPER.

WAYS TO MAKE THEIR LAND MORE PROFITABLE SO THAT IT'S NOT A BLACK AND WHITE DECISION TO JUST STOP FARMING AND GO TO SOLAR.

AND THAT'LL BE SOMETHING WE CAN DO DURING THE COMPREHENSIVE REZONING, WHEN WE'RE LOOKING AT POTENTIALLY ADDING PERMITTED USES TO OUR RURAL ZONE ON FARMS THAT ARE AG RELATED OR AG SUPPORTIVE THAT'LL HELP GIVE THE FARMER A REASON TO STAY IN FARMING.

DO THEY GET DO THEY GET EXTRA CREDIT IF THEY'RE WITHIN 2 MILES OF A TRANSMISSION LINE? I KNOW WE COULD DO THAT. HAS A HIGHER PRIORITY.

YEAH. YOU SAID THEY GET POINTS IF THEY'RE IN THE PRESERVATION AREA.

I'M GOING TO MAKE A NOTE OF THAT. IF THEY'RE IN THE TARGET AREA AND A COUPLE MORE POINTS IF THEY'RE WITHIN 2 MILES WITHIN THAT IN THE BUFFER. YEAH. THE HIGHLY DESIRABLE. THAT'S WHERE WE'RE GOING TO OBSERVE.

DOES THAT MEAN. I MEAN, CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG.

THE STATE IS TELLING US WHAT WE HAVE TO DO. OH, YEAH.

BUT THEY CAN'T TELL THE FARMER. YOU HAVE TO DO IT.

THE FARMER HAS TO AGREE. RIGHT. OR THE LANDOWNER? YES, HAS TO AGREE. HE HAS TO AGREE. THEY GO. NO, THEY CAN'T GET IT.

NOT YET. NOT YET. EMINENT DOMAIN. EMINENT DOMAIN.

HAS THAT APPLICATION BEEN UPDATED? LIKE RECENTLY? I REMEMBER WHEN I WAS ON THE ADVISORY BOARD. THAT WAS ONE OF THE THINGS WE DID.

BUT HAS IT BEEN UPDATED SINCE, I WONDER? THERE'S STILL SOMETHING UP FOR ROUND 2.

AND WE ARE. I'M GOING ONLINE FOR TRAINING ON THE FIRST WEEK OF JANUARY, AND THEY'RE GOING TO BE GOING OVER

[00:40:10]

OKAY. THE COUNTY HASN'T CHANGED ITS CRITERIA.

THAT'S WHAT I'M RIGHT. WE HAVEN'T ADDED ANY. AND EVEN WHEN THE STATE WITH IN THE PAST FEW YEARS, ANY CHANGES THEY'VE HAD TO THEIR OWN APPLICATION HAVE BEEN KIND OF MINOR AND ADMINISTRATIVE MORE.

BUT BUT OUR CRITERIA HASN'T CHANGED. SO THAT'S TWO THINGS WE COULD PROPOSE. AND I THINK IT'S THINKERS. ARE IT. I DON'T THINK THAT THEY THAT MOUTH WOULD SAY, NO, YOU CAN'T. BUT EXTRA POINTS IF THEY'RE LOCATED IN A PRIORITY PRESERVATION AREA AND EXTRA POINTS IF THEY'RE LOCATED WITHIN 2 MILES OF A TRANSMISSION LINE, AND THERE'S MORE THAN ONE WAY TO SKIN A CAT. AND INSTEAD OF CALLING IT, YOU KNOW, CALLING IT RIGHT OUT 2 MILES WITHIN THE TRANSMISSION LINE BECAUSE EVERYBODY CAN SEE WHAT WE'RE DOING. IT'S JUST HAVE A NAME FOR IT, CALL IT SOMETHING, YOU KNOW, THAT THAT YOU KNOW.

RIGHT. YOU GOT YOU GOT PRIORITY. PRESERVATION AREA.

PRIORITY. PRIORITY. PRIORITY. RED HOT PRIORITY.

PRESERVATION. I MEAN, WE JUST COME UP WITH A ACRONYM, RIGHT? IMPORTANT. AND AND AND I'M JUST WONDERING, WITH ALL THIS GOING ON WITH OUR SOLAR AND.

I KNOW WE'RE MAKING SOME CHANGES, BUT HOW FAST DO WE HAVE TO MAKE THEM? HOW? BECAUSE IN A COUPLE OF YEARS THEY COULD ALL CHANGE.

AND THEN WE. THAT'S VERY TRUE. YOU KNOW, YOU GET ONE ELECTION AND EVERYTHING CHANGES.

EVERYTHING GOES OUT THE DOOR. WELL, HAVEN'T WE HEARD? WE'RE HEARING RUMORS, I THINK, FROM MACO THAT THERE'S SOME DISCUSSION AT THE LEGISLATURE, AT THE LEGISLATIVE LEVEL, THAT THEY MAY BACK OFF THAT 5% OF THE PPA REQUIREMENT FOR ALL COUNTIES, WHETHER OR NOT THAT HAPPENS, WE DON'T KNOW. BUT THERE'S ACTIVITY PUSHING, TALKING ABOUT THAT AT THE LEGISLATIVE LEVEL.

WE HAD HEARD ORIGINALLY THAT THIS YEAR WAS GOING TO BE WORSE FOR SOLAR MANDATES THAN LAST YEAR.

WELL, I THINK THEY SHOULD GO ON ALL THE TALL BUILDINGS IN EVERY COUNTY.

TOO EXPENSIVE. GET BETTER SUNLIGHT. GET IT UP IN THE AIR.

CLOSER TO THE SIDE. CLOSER TO THE SUN. BALTIMORE CITY AND PRINCE GEORGE'S COUNTY.

MONTGOMERY COUNTY. YEAH. NOT TOO FAR AWAY FROM THE SUN ON THE GROUND.

SO DID YOU ALL HAVE ANY ANY SUGGESTIONS OR EDITS? OR IF YOU THINK OF ANY, IN THE NEXT FEW WEEKS, JUST JOT THEM DOWN AND SHOOT ME A TEXT OR AN EMAIL IF SOMETHING OCCURS TO YOU.

I'LL MAKE THESE CHANGES, AND THEN I'LL HAVE A FINAL DRAFT READY FOR YOU ALL AT THE JANUARY MEETING, ALONG WITH THE DRAFT OF THE WATER RESOURCES ELEMENT, WHICH WILL NOT BE 132 PAGES LIKE THE LAST ONE.

YAY! THEY ALSO NEED TO REVIEW THE RECERTIFICATION IN JANUARY, RIGHT? YEAH. SO CATHERINE WILL BE. CATHERINE WILL BE HERE.

BECAUSE THE MALPF RECERTIFICATION WILL BE UP FOR YOU ALL TO REVIEW BEFORE.

DOES IT GO TO THE COUNTY COMMISSIONERS? WELL, THE AG ADVISORY BOARD IS DOING IT ON THE 29TH OF DECEMBER, AND THEN THE PLANNING COMMISSION WILL BE WHATEVER YOUR DATE IS, OR.

LESS. ABOUT ME. SO IT GOES FROM THEM UP TO THE COUNTY COMMISSIONERS AND THEN UP TO THE STATE.

OKAY. THE 34,000 ACRES THAT WE HAVE IN PRIORITY PRESERVATION. YOU MEAN IN PERMANENT PRESERVATION? PERMANENT EASEMENT? THAT'S RIGHT. RIGHT. THAT'S THIS PERMANENT EASEMENT.

RIGHT. DO IS THERE ANY BENEFIT FOR THAT? TO THE TO THE LANDOWNER? OH YEAH. TO GIVE UP THERE. YES. YOU YOU SELL YOUR DEVELOPMENT RIGHTS AND YOU I MEAN, THERE'S A WHOLE PROCESS.

MOST OF IT'S SECRET. BUT A LANDOWNER WHO WANTS TO.

THERE'S 2 PROGRAMS, RURAL LEGACY AND MARYLAND AGRICULTURAL LAND PRESERVATION FOUNDATION.

[00:45:06]

THE APPLICATION IS PRETTY HEFTY. THERE'S A SOILS NOT ANALYSIS, BUT A SOIL SURVEY TO TO SEE WHAT CLASS SOILS YOU HAVE.

AND SPOILER ALERT, IT'S ALL ABOUT THE SOILS. THAT'S YOUR NUMBER 1 THING IS HOW GOOD IS YOUR SOIL? AND CLASS 1 AND 2 ARE THE ARE THE HIGHEST. SO THE MORE OF THAT YOU HAVE, THE BETTER SHOT YOU'VE GOT AT GETTING PICKED UP.

BUT THEY LOOK AT OTHER THINGS TOO, LIKE SIZE OF THE FARM.

THEY WANT FARMS THAT ARE 50 ACRES AND OVER. THEY'LL MAKE AN EXCEPTION TO A SMALLER FARM IF IT'S ADJACENT TO A PROPERTY THAT'S ALREADY IN AN EASEMENT, BECAUSE THEY'RE REALLY LOOKING FOR CONTIGUOUS BLOCKS OF PRESERVED LAND.

SO THEY LOOK AT SOILS THEY LOOK AT THE OPERATION ON THE FARM, THEY LOOK AT THE LOCATION OF IT AND ITS PROXIMITY TO OTHER PRESERVED AREAS.

THEY LOOK AT THE SIZE OF THE FARM. THOSE ARE THE BIG THINGS.

IS THAT JUST FOR YOU? JUST TALKING ABOUT FARM GROUND, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE YOU GOT YOU GOT A LOT OF PEOPLE THAT PUT THEIR WOODS AND FOREST PRESERVATION. YOU CAN HAVE YOU CAN DO MALPF DOES FOREST AND, AND ALSO TIMBER HARVEST FOREST.

BUT THERE ARE A LOT THAT HAVE A LOT THAT ARE IN WOODS, WHICH IS ANOTHER ACTUALLY, THAT'S A PLUS.

THEIR BIG CONCERN IS PRESERVING TILLED YOU KNOW, PRODUCTIVE FARMLAND.

AND THEN THAT GETS RANKED INTERNALLY BASED ON A GRADING SCALE.

IT'S ALMOST LIKE A MATRIX. YOU GET A CERTAIN NUMBER OF POINTS FOR YOUR SOILS, FOR YOUR SIZE, FOR YOUR LOCATION, FOR PROXIMITY TO OTHER PRESERVED FARMS. THAT ALL GETS THROWN INTO THE SCORE SHEET. YOUR SCORE GETS TOTALED, AND THEN IT'S RANKED ON BASED ON ALL THE OTHER APPLICANTS THAT HAVE COME IN.

AND THEN IT GOES UP TO MALPF. AND THEN MALPF.

I THINK IT'S ALSO THE NUMBER OF DEVELOPMENT RIGHTS.

OH THAT'S RIGHT, I FORGOT ABOUT THAT. HOW MANY DEVELOPMENT RIGHTS DO YOU HAVE? IF YOU DON'T HAVE ANY, THEN YOU CAN'T. YOU'RE NOT GOING TO SELL IT BECAUSE THEY'RE THEY THEY WANT TO PREVENT DEVELOPMENT.

SO IF ALL YOUR DEVELOPMENT RIGHTS ARE GONE, YOU'RE NOT GOING TO GET A MALPF EASEMENT BECAUSE YOU CAN'T DEVELOP IT.

BUT THAT'S THE OTHER BIG CRITERIA IS HOW MUCH DEVELOPMENT IS POSSIBLE ON YOURS AND THAT MAKES YOUR VALUE GO UP AS WELL.

AGAIN, IF THEY DON'T GET THAT, IF THEY WANT TO JUST PRESERVE THEIR LAND, IS THERE ANY BENEFIT TO THEM LIKE THEY USED TO OWN SOME PROPERTY THAT HAD FOREST? WE HAD PART OF IT IN FORESTATION.

THERE WAS A BENEFIT TO THAT. IT'S A TAX BENEFIT, RIGHT? BUT I COULDN'T CUT A TREE DOWN. WELL, IN MALPF YOU CAN HARVEST THE THE TIMBER.

YEAH. BECAUSE THAT'S AN AG THAT'S AN AG ALL YOUR, ALL YOUR AREA THAT YOU SHOW ON THIS MAP, IS THAT JUST TILLABLE GROUND OR IS THAT INCLUDE THE WOODS, LAND AND EVERYTHING ELSE? YES. THE THE FARMS THAT WE HAVE ARE SOME ARE ALL TILLABLE.

SOME ARE A MIX OF TILLABLE AND FOREST. SOME HAVE HOUSES, SOME DON'T.

THE MALPF PROGRAM EMPHASIZES AG PRESERVATION.

THE RURAL LEGACY AREA PROGRAM EMPHASIZES RURAL, MORE NOT AS NOT AS MUCH AG EMPHASIS AS MALPF.

SO THERE'S A LITTLE MORE FREEDOM TO DO THINGS WITH YOUR PROPERTY IN THE RURAL LEGACY AREA.

BUT WE'VE SEEN THEM, YOU KNOW, WE'VE SEEN MILLION DOLLAR EASEMENTS AND HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS EASEMENTS.

SO IT IT IS A HUGE BENEFIT TO A FARMER TO DO IT.

IT'S A SIZABLE AMOUNT OF MONEY, BUT THEY DON'T GET PICKED.

I MEAN, IS THERE I KNOW RIGHT NOW WHAT FARMLAND IS, IS TAXED ON FARMLAND SCALE, RIGHT.

NOT NOT A WAREHOUSE SCALE. RIGHT. SO I'M JUST LOOKING, YOU KNOW, WHAT'S THAT FOR? TO GET PEOPLE TO DRAW THEM IN TO GIVE UP THEIR LAND MONEY.

BUT THEY'RE NOT GIVING IT UP. THEY STILL CAN KEEP IT. THEY JUST THEY JUST HAVE TO KEEP IT IN AG AND IN RURAL IN THE RURAL LEGACY PROGRAM THEY HAVE TO KEEP IT RURAL AND IT CAN'T BE DEVELOPED. IT'S THE SAME AND IT'S MOSTLY TARGETED TOWARDS RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT.

WAS THE INITIAL PUSH TO KEEP SPRAWL RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT FROM CLIMBING ALL OVER THE RURAL AREA.

AND THEN AND I DON'T KNOW, MATT, DO YOU KNOW MUCH ABOUT THE MARYLAND ENVIRONMENTAL TRUST EASEMENTS? ARE THEY LIKE RURAL LEGACY? THEY'RE SIMILAR TO RURAL LEGACY, WERE THEY THEY'RE BASICALLY BUYING OUT YOUR DEVELOPMENT RIGHTS.

AND THEY AND IT HAS TO BE ENOUGH THAT IT'S COMPETITIVE FOR THE LANDOWNER TO DO IT, AS OPPOSED TO HAVING A DEVELOPER PAY HIM TO DEVELOP IT.

[00:50:03]

BUT IT DON'T COMPARE TO SOLAR. YEAH, THAT'S THE PROBLEM.

AND THEY CAN'T COMPETE WITH SOLAR? NO. AND I DON'T THINK IT'S THERE.

AND THE ONLY THING THAT CAN HAPPEN IS ALL THREE OF THOSE PROGRAMS UP THEIR MONEY AMOUNT TO COMPETE WITH SOLAR BECAUSE THEY HAVE BEEN ABLE TO COMPETE WITH RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPERS.

BUT SOLAR BLOWS THAT OUT OF THE WATER. SO NOT ONLY ARE THEY NOT GETTING THE MONEY TO COMPETE WITH SOLAR, THEY GOT REDUCED THEIR FUNDS, THEIR FUNDING WAS CUT.

I'M WONDERING, AND KEITH, YOU'VE PROBABLY GOT YOUR HAND OR YOUR THUMB ON THIS PART OF THE INDUSTRY.

I'M JUST WONDERING HOW LONG SOLAR IS GOING TO BE HERE BEFORE IT'S THE FED THAT JUST MOVES ON.

ON THIS LEVEL. SOLAR'S GOING TO BE HERE UNTIL THEY OPEN UP.

NUCLEAR. NUCLEAR, YEAH. OR NATURAL? MORE NATURAL GAS.

ANOTHER NATURAL GAS PIPELINE. ONCE THEY ONCE THEY ONCE THEY OPEN UP NUCLEAR, I THINK SOLAR WILL GO BY THE WAYSIDE.

IT'S CHEAPER, ACTUALLY. CHEAPER. YEAH. YOU'RE NOT GOBBLING UP LAND, RIGHT? YOU'RE NOT GOBBLING UP LAND ONCE THEY CONVINCE ENOUGH PEOPLE THAT IT'S SAFE.

WELL, AND I DON'T KNOW IF YOU'RE IN ELECTRICAL, IT IS.

I'M NUCLEAR IS ALWAYS BEEN EXTREMELY SAFE. YEAH.

YEAH. I MEAN, THEY THEY PUT 5000 SAILORS ON A BOAT BLUEPRINT FOR A NUCLEAR REACTOR.

EXACTLY. DON'T SIT THERE. TALK ABOUT THE GUY WHO'S BEEN ON AN AIRCRAFT CARRIER.

OH, YEAH? YEAH, THE WHOLE. THE WHOLE THING. RIGHT.

NOBODY EVER SAID THEY THINK THEY JUST FLOAT AROUND THINKING ABOUT SOME COUNTRIES.

I MEAN, I LIVED IN KOREA WITH A NUCLEAR PLANT RIGHT DOWN THE ROAD.

OH, THERE'S ONE RIGHT ACROSS THE WATER. YEAH.

YEAH. WELL, WE'RE IN THE FALLOUT. WE'RE IN THE FALLOUT? NO, WE'RE IN THE FALLOUT FOR CALVERT CLIFFS. I MEAN, THIS IS.

WELL, WE MIGHT AS WELL GET THE POWER. WHAT'S THAT? WE MIGHT AS WELL GET THE POWER. THAT'S RIGHT.

WE'RE ALREADY GOING TO GET THAT. RIGHT. YOU KNOW, THEY SAID THAT THAT GENERATES 40% OF THE POWER USED IN MARYLAND.

WOW. THAT LITTLE TEENY. YEAH. THAT LITTLE TEENY OLD PLANT.

IT'S NOT EVEN STATE OF THE ART. YEAH. 70S. YEAH.

MAYBE 60S. IT WAS ALREADY THERE WHEN I WAS IN HIGH SCHOOL.

WELL, NOW Y'ALL KNOW HOW OLD.[LAUGHTER] SO BAD.

GOOD. ANYWAY. NO WORRIES. A LOT OF THINGS. LORD, I HAVE A LOT ON MY MIND.

SO WE DON'T HAVE TO MAKE A FORMAL MOTION. NO.

THIS IS THE DRAFT. I'LL COME BACK WITH THE FINAL.

I JUST WANTED TO HEAR IF THERE WAS ANY HEARTBURN OR EXTRA THINGS THAT YOU ALL WANTED ADDED.

BEFORE WE CALL IT, TAKE IT TO FINAL AND WE'LL CLEAN UP THE MAPS FOR YOU.

GET THE NUMBERS RIGHT. GET THE NUMBERS RIGHT.

1975. OH. I GRADUATED. I WAS I WAS TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHAT HE WAS GRABBING THAT THAT'S ON THE RECORD.

YOU KNOW, I TURNED MY MIC OFF. OKAY.

ANYTHING ELSE? THANK YOU.

[BZA Update ]

[T. Pepper - Variance Request]

WOW. OLD TIME MATERIALS. THAT'S FOR SPECIAL USE.

[Old Town Materials, LLC - Special Use Exception]

AND REQUESTED A MODIFICATION TO THE 200 FOOT SETBACK REQUIREMENTS.

AND. [INAUDIBLE] AND THE SETBACK MODIFICATION. NOW WE'LL SEE THAT AGAIN, WON'T WE?

[00:55:03]

OKAY. BECAUSE AGAIN THAT'S THAT THE EXISTING PIT.

THEY JUST WANT TO SHIFT NINE ACRES AROUND. YES.

WE WILL ALSO HAVE A FINAL SITE PLAN APPROVAL FOR HEARTLAND HOLDINGS AND A PUBLIC HEARING FOR A DEVELOPMENT RIGHTS AND RESPONSIBILITIES AGREEMENT.

FOR WHAT? FOR THE PAVING OF SUNSET AVENUE. OH.

OH, YES. IS THAT ON JANUARY? THAT'LL BE ON JANUARY.

STARTING THE YEAR OFF WITH THEM. YEAH. SO WE'RE GOING TO HAVE A FINAL SITE PLAN APPROVAL.

YES. FINAL SITE PLAN APPROVAL FOR HEARTLAND HOLDINGS, FOR RIVER ROAD, FOR THE GRANT OPERATION AND THE DRA THAT'S ATTACHED TO THAT.

AND THEN THE GRAVEL PIT. SO IS THERE SOME COOPERATION GOING ON? I WOULDN'T SAY THAT. BUT WE'RE MOVING FORWARD IN THE PROCESS WITH RIVER ROAD.

OKAY. I ASSUME IN JANUARY WE'LL BE READY FOR A FINAL.

AND YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN? I MEAN, DON'T NOT HAVE A PAGE WITH 16 THINGS THEY HAVEN'T DONE AND OUTSTANDING AND ARGUMENTS.

THE ONLY REASON THEY HAVE 2 FOR YOU IS BECAUSE WE JUST GOT THE DOOR WITHIN THE LAST 3, TWO WEEKS, TWO AND A HALF WEEKS. SO YOU'LL HAVE TWO PARTS.

YOU'LL HAVE THE FINAL SITE PLAN APPROVAL FOR THE GRAIN OPERATING FACILITY, AND THEN THE SPECIAL USE EXCEPTION THAT WAS REQUIRED FOR THAT, THAT WAS APPROVED BY THE BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS.

ONE OF THE CONDITIONS WAS THAT THEY SUBMIT A DRA WITH THE COUNTY TO ADDRESS THE TRUCK ROUTE ON SUNSET AVENUE, AND THAT, IN ACCORDANCE WITH OUR CODE, REQUIRES A PUBLIC HEARING.

SO YOU'RE YOU'RE ACTUALLY HOLDING A PUBLIC HEARING ON THAT, IS IT DOES THE TOWN OF GREENSBORO KNOW THAT HE'S GOING TO BE RUNNING GRAIN TRUCKS THROUGH THE CENTER OF TOWN? HE HAS BEEN.

I KNOW. I MEAN, JUST SO THEY CAN'T DO WE SAY THEY WEREN'T NOTIFIED BECAUSE, I MEAN, THEY'RE GOING TO THEY'RE GOING TO COME.

THAT'S HIS TRUCK. RIGHT? RIGHT THROUGH CENTRETOWN OFF 313.

AT THE LIGHT THROUGH THE CENTER OF TOWN. DO YOU NOTIFY THEM LIKE YOU NOTIFIED QUEEN ANNE'S COUNTY FOR BRIDGETOWN OR WHATEVER THAT ONE WAS? NO, BECAUSE THERE'S NOT A REALLY A DEDICATED ROUTE.

ROUTE? YEAH. OH, IT'S JUST THE SHORTEST DISTANCE BETWEEN.

HE'S EXPRESSED THAT THAT IS THE ROUTE HE USES.

FARMERS ARE TAKING THEIR STUFF THERE. RIGHT. YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE RIVER ROAD. WHAT'S THE HOLLYROOD WOULD BE AN AVENUE. AND THEY'LL COME OFF OAKLAND ROAD.

THEY'LL COME OFF OAKLAND ROAD SOMEHOW AND COME ACROSS MARBLEHEAD FARM, YEAH.

SO I MEAN, LIKE, YEAH, YOU DON'T KNOW WHERE THE FARMERS ARE COMING FROM.

YOU GOT 6, 7 ROUTES. AND HOW DO WE ADDRESS. THE $80,000 PLUS? BECAUSE YOU'RE ALLOWED A PERCENTAGE COMING OUT OF THE FIELD. ON ON THEM GRAINS AND THEN TRACTOR TRAILERS COMING IN ON THEM.

COUNTY ROADS WITHOUT A DEDICATED TRUCK ROUTE.

I MEAN, IF THEY'RE COMING IN UP BY TRUCK IS GOING TO BE SUNSET.

IT'S SUNSET ROAD, BUT I MEAN SUNSET AVENUE. BUT IF WE CAN'T CONTROL SOMEBODY FROM COMING ON THE ROAD.

YEAH, THEY COME IN. THEY COME IN FROM RIDLEY AREA SUNSET.

BUT IT'S JUST LIKE ANY OTHER WHERE YOU SAY, THIS IS MY DEDICATED HAUL ROUTE AND THAT'S WHAT YOU APPROVE.

THAT DOESN'T MEAN WE CAN NECESSARILY ENFORCE IT ON THEM.

KNOW WHO'S GOING TO ENFORCE IT. BUT YEAH, THAT'S I MEAN IT'S NO DIFFERENT THAN.

WELL, I MEAN, I JUST I DIDN'T KNOW IF THOSE, THOSE COUNTY ROADS ARE BUILT TO A STANDARD THAT IS NOT SUITABLE FOR HEAVY TRUCK TRAFFIC. AND THAT'S WHAT THE DRA WILL ADDRESS.

BUT BUT YOU'RE NOT GOING TO GET HIM TO AGREE TO REBUILD 10 OR 12 MILES OF ROAD TO GET FROM HIS TANKS OUT TO THE STATE. STATE ROADS. WHAT HE'S AGREED TO DO IS PAY THE COUNTY IN 4 PAYMENTS OF $100,000 TO GO TOWARDS THE COST OF UPGRADING THE ROAD FROM FROM HIS TANKS TO FROM RIVER ROAD DOWN SUNSET UNTIL IT GETS TO THE HIGHWAY RIGHT AWAY.

TO THE TO THE BASICALLY THE TOWN, THE TOWN LIMITS.

[01:00:02]

SO I PERSONALLY I THINK ANYTIME THAT WE'RE MAKING DECISIONS TO PUSH SOMETHING THAT AFFECTS ONE OF THESE TOWNS, THAT WE SHOULD LET THEM KNOW. I MEAN, AT LEAST LET THEM KNOW, YOU KNOW, LIKE THE STATE LETS US KNOW SOLAR IS COMING.

CAN'T DO NOTHING ABOUT IT, BUT IT'S COMING. WE MIGHT AS WELL TELL THEM YOU GOT GREEN TRUCKS COMING THROUGH.

YOU KNOW. BY THE WAY, TELL YOUR COPS YOU GOT GREEN TRUCKS COMING THROUGH THE CENTER OF TOWN. COULD A TOWN OBJECT? AND THE AND THE APPLICANT HAVE TO REROUTE. IT'S A IT'S A STATE ROAD.

THEY HAVE NO SAY OVER THAT STATE. THAT SUNSET AVENUE AND MAIN STREET.

I MEAN, THEY'RE STATE ROADS, SO THEY CAN'T EVEN PUT A SIGN UP.

THEY CAN'T PUT A SIGN UP. RIGHT. CAN'T DO ANYTHING ABOUT USING A STATE ROAD RIGHT THROUGH TOWN.

I MEAN, IT WAS THE SAME ARGUMENT WITH WOOD FARM.

YOU KNOW, THE STATE HIGHWAYS ARE BUILT TO HANDLE THAT TRAFFIC.

THE ONLY THING IS, I MEAN, GREENVILLE DOESN'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT MAINTAINING THAT ROAD IF THEY TAKE IT UP, STATE FIXES IT. I MEAN, WE CAN CERTAINLY NOTIFY HIM IF YOU WANT US TO.

WELL, I MEAN, I JUST I JUST THINK JUST LIKE. JUST LIKE, I MEAN, THERE WOULD BE NO NOTHING THAT WOULD TRIGGER US TO EVEN NOTIFY THEM.

BUT, I MEAN, WE'RE GOING TO BE ONE THING. IF THEY WERE ADJACENT TO THE TOWN, THAT'S ONE THING. BUT AS A AS AN ADJACENT PROPERTY OWNER, THEY WOULD GET NOTICE DURING THE VISA PROCESS.

BUT BUT EVEN EVEN THEN, NOW AGAIN I'M NOT. COULD THEY ATTEND THE PUBLIC HEARING AND HAVE SOME KIND OF OBJECTION TO IT? A REPRESENTATIVE FROM THE TOWN THAT SAYS YOU'RE GETTING READY TO DUMP HOW MANY TRUCKS A DAY ON US? THEY CAN. CERTAINLY ANYBODY CAN, BECAUSE I JUST I MEAN, WHEN WE WHEN WE DID THE, THE SAND PIT AND WE'RE IN HERE THROWING NUMBERS AROUND 100 TRUCKS A DAY AND YOU'RE GOING TO PUT THEM RIGHT THROUGH [INAUDIBLE], I THOUGHT, YOU KNOW, AT LEAST QUEEN COUNTY SHOULD KNOW THAT WE'RE APPROVING SOMETHING THAT'S GOING TO DUMP SOMETHING IN THEIR LAP. I'M CURIOUS WHAT THE NOTIFICATION REQUIREMENTS ARE FOR THE JUST PUBLICATION IN THE NEWSPAPER.

WHEN IT'S GOING THROUGH DCA, IT WAS 1000FT. BUT IN THIS CASE THERE'S NOTHING LIKE THAT.

THERE'S NO SIGNPOSTING AND THERE'S NO, YOU KNOW, A GRAVEL PIT.

YEAH, YOU DO 1000FT NOTICE, BUT BECAUSE THAT'S SPECIFIC TO GRAVEL PITS, BECAUSE THE PUBLIC HEARINGS NOT ON THE SITE PLAN APPROVAL. IT'S ON THE DRA. RIGHT, RIGHT. I UNDERSTAND THAT NOW.

HE WENT TO BZA BECAUSE HIS TANKS ARE OUT OF DOESN'T CONFORM WITH THE SETBACK, RIGHT? NO. HE WENT TO BZA FOR A SPECIALUSE EXCEPTION AND A VARIANCE.

THE SPECIAL USE WAS FOR THE OPERATION OF THE GRAIN FACILITY BECAUSE THAT REQUIRES A SPECIAL USE.

THE VARIANCE WAS BECAUSE HE DIDN'T MEET THE 500 FOOT SETBACK, AND THE COUNTY HAS SINCE REDUCED THAT SETBACK TO 200FT, SO THE VARIANCE IS NO LONGER NECESSARY. WE KNOW THAT WHEN THEY MADE THAT MOVE, RIGHT.

TO GET HIS PERMITS FOR HIS HOUSES HOUSE. HOUSES.

OR WHATEVER IT IS. HOUSE.

NOT SELLING CARPORT.

YEAH. DEPARTMENT UPDATES, I THINK YOU SAID. AND I DON'T KNOW WHERE YOU WANT TO BRING IT UP OR NOT.

YOU SAID SOMETHING IN THE WORKSHOP THAT WE PROBABLY GOT SOMETHING COMING DOWN THE ROAD ABOUT RVS.

YES. THE COUNTY COMMISSIONERS WANT US TO REVIEW POTENTIAL REGULATIONS ADDRESSING LIVING IN RVS.

LIVING IN, DIDN'T WE? WOULDN'T THIS MENTIONED ALREADY? I FEEL LIKE WE PROBABLY TALKED ABOUT LOOKING AT LENGTH OF TIME KIND OF SITUATION.

YEAH. SO WE'RE GOING TO BRING YOU SOME PROPOSED REGULATIONS IN TERMS OF WHAT WE FEEL IS WHAT THE COMMISSIONERS WOULD LIKE TO SEE FOR YOUR REVIEW INPUT, EITHER JANUARY OR FEBRUARY.

PROBABLY FEBRUARY LOOKS LIKE JANUARY. JANUARY IS FUN ENOUGH.

[01:05:03]

WHEN YOU DO THIS, YOU KNOW, IF YOU'RE BUILDING A HOME AND THIS IS YOUR TEMPORARY RIGHT, OR YOU HAVE GUEST VISITING AND YOU KNOW, THEY'RE BRINGING THEIR CAMPER OR STAYING IN YOURS BECAUSE YOU DON'T HAVE THE EXTRA ROOM WHILE THEY'RE VISITING. MAYBE YOU HAD A, YOU KNOW, AN EVENT, A FIRE OR FLOOD THOSE SORTS OF THINGS.

DO YOU GET NOT ONLY WHAT THEY WANT, BUT WHAT'S GENERALLY ACCEPTED IN OUR AREA, WHAT OTHER PEOPLE ARE DOING.

WE ALWAYS LOOK, YEAH, YEAH. I MEAN, I FIGURE YOU WOULD AND I MEAN, I DON'T MIND BEING A TRENDSETTER.

IF YOU RECALL, WE DID THAT WHEN WE LOOKED AT THE SETBACK REQUIREMENTS FOR THE AG PROCESSING FACILITIES, BECAUSE WE HAD A 500 FOOT SETBACK AND WE LOOKED AT THE OUR ADJACENT JURISDICTIONS AND THEY RANGED ANYWHERE FROM 100 TO 200FT. POLTERGEIST. IT'S ABOUT PRINTING SOMETHING.

ARE YOU PRINTING? NO, I MEAN, IT WAS PRINTING, BUT IT STOPPED A WHILE AGO.

WELL, I THINK IT I THINK IT DECIDED IT WAS OFF BREAK AND.

IT TOOK A BREAK. A LITTLE BIT OF A. IT'S THE CHAPTER.

YEAH. I AND AND THAT'S GOING TO, THAT'S THAT'S GOING TO COME UP AND I KNOW IT.

YOU BROUGHT IT UP IN THE WORKSHOP, AND I DID, YOU KNOW, WITH A LOT.

YOU KNOW IT. IT'S A SHAME THAT WE'RE HAVING. WE HAVE TALKED ABOUT ALL THIS ACCESSORY DWELLING AND AFFORDABILITY AND, OF COURSE, LIVABILITY AND. COST OF LIVING AND COST OF HOUSING.

AND THEN. AND I CAN'T TELL YOU HOW MANY CAMPERS THAT I KNOW THAT ARE PARKED IN YARDS THAT PEOPLE ARE ACTUALLY LIVING IN.

AND THEN AND NOW WE SAY, NO, WE CAN'T DO THAT.

BUT BUT WE ALSO WANT TO ADDRESS ACCESSORY DWELLING.

AND IT'S LIKE. WHO'S GOING TO ENFORCE? I MEAN, WHETHER IT'S JUST SITTING IN YOUR DRIVEWAY OR SOMEBODY ACTUALLY LIVING IN IT, UNLESS YOU'RE LIKE REALLY SCOPING OUT SOMEONE'S.

AND THAT IS THAT'S PART OF THE DISCUSSIONS WE'VE HAD, IS THE CHALLENGE OF, YOU KNOW, WHEN WE CREATE REGULATIONS, WHERE'S THIS COMING FROM? ENFORCEABLE. THERE'S SEVERAL PLACES THAT HAVE PEOPLE THAT ARE LIVING.

YEAH. NO COMPLAINTS. THERE'S THERE'S A THERE'S A COUPLE PLACES YOU CAN SEE THEM NOW THAT WOULD STAND OUT A LITTLE BIT.

THEY'VE GOT TRAILER PARKING AND, AND YOU KNOW PEOPLE LIVING THERE BECAUSE IT'S NOT NEXT TO A HOUSE.

IT'S THE ONLY THING THERE. LITTLE LOUNGE CHAIRS AND.

YEAH. BUT AND YOU MENTIONED SOMETHING AND I KNOW WE'VE DISCUSSED THIS IN FEBRUARY, BUT YOU KNOW, IT'S LIKE I THINK YOU MENTIONED SOMETHING ABOUT THEM SAYING ABOUT, OH, THE FARMER'S GOING OUT IN THE WOODS AND THEN JUST LEAVE IT.

WELL, IF IT'S MY WOODS, I'LL PARK WHATEVER I WANT.

MY OLD TRACTOR, MY OLD RV, YOU KNOW? BUT AGAIN, I KNOW THEY BUY THEM FOR HUNTING.

HUNTING. AND THAT WAS ONE OF THE OTHER DISCUSSIONS THE THING IS, THERE'S LIKE SEASONAL HUNTING. THEY FALL APART, USE OF IT FOR THOSE SORTS OF THINGS.

YEAH. SO BUT I MEAN, I'M, I'M YEAH, I'M A LITTLE BIT TORN ON IT TOO BECAUSE YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT AFFORDABILITY AND STUFF LIKE THAT.

SO NOW I'M NOT SAYING THAT THEY SHOULD BE ABLE TO THROW TRASH OUT OUTSIDE, AND I MEAN, THEY SHOULDN'T HAVE TO ADHERE TO THE SAME STANDARDS. WELL, THAT'S WHAT DRIVES A REGULATION, IS SOMEBODY IS THROWING TRASH OUT OF THE TRAILER.

IT'S DANGEROUS. IT'S NOT SAFE. IT'S NOT LIKE THE PERSON WHO'S GOT A GREAT TRAILER KEEPS IT IN GOOD.

IT'S IT'S THE PERSON WHO'S A NUISANCE THAT DRIVES A COMPLAINT, THAT MAKES US HAVE TO DEAL TO, TO COME UP WITH REGS. AND THAT'S THE THING. WE'RE GETTING LOTS OF NUISANCE COMPLAINTS REGARDING THEM.

AND THOSE SITUATIONS ARE NOT WHAT YOU WOULD EXPECT OF SOMEONE WHO WAS, YOU KNOW, REASONABLY USING THE RECREATIONAL VEHICLE TO RESIDE IN.

WELL, AND WHAT I'VE SEEN AND AGAIN, I DON'T KNOW IN YOUR WORLD WITH THE COMPLAINTS THAT COME IN AND HOW YOU ENFORCE THEM.

YOU KNOW, JUST SO MANY TIMES HAVE I SEEN A COMPLAINT.

THEY HAVE THEY HAVE SEVERAL COMPLAINTS AND THEY GO AFTER A PROGRAM THEY DON'T WANT TO GO OUT AND AND ADDRESS FACE UP THAT YOU'RE YOU'RE NASTY,

[01:10:04]

WE HAVE NO PROBLEM GETTING RID OF. WE'RE JUST GOING TO GET RID OF ALL THE CAMPERS. WELL THEN KEITH, WHO'S GOT HIS ALL NICE AND LANDSCAPED AND GOT HIS FIRE RING AND AND HE CAN'T HAVE HIS AND IT'S LIKE, WAIT A MINUTE. WELL, THE PROBLEM IS IF YOU HAVE IF YOU HAVE 1 OR 2, KNOCK ON THE DOOR, WHAT ARE YOU DOING? BUT YOU DON'T YOU HAVE 50. YEAH. AND WE HAVE ONE INSPECTOR.

SO THEN WE HAVE, WE HAVE TO HIRE ANOTHER INSPECTOR, WHICH WE WOULD DO.

BUT YOU KNOW WHAT'S GOING TO GO UP IF WE HAVE TO DO THAT? WELL, YOU KNOW, I TOLD I TOLD TRAVIS A COUPLE OF TIMES.

YOU WANT WANT ONE. YOU NEED, YOU NEED. WE NEED AN INSPECTOR OR 2.

I MEAN, ARE WE GOING TO. THERE'S A POTENTIAL THAT WE COULD RUN INTO THE SAME THING AS WE'RE RUNNING INTO WITH THAT WE'VE RUN INTO WITH.

WHAT'S CALLED HEARTLAND RIGHT. THAT WAS THE MAJOR COMPLAINT. WE HAD SEVERAL PEOPLE THAT WERE.

FOR YEARS HAD. WERE TAKING DEATH. THEY WERE TAKING DEATH AND GETTING PAID FOR IT.

IT WAS A PART OF THEIR INCOME. THERE WAS NO COMPLAINTS WITH THAT UNTIL YOU HAD ONE.

UNTIL SOMEBODY DOES IT RIGHT. AND DID IT ON THAT SCALE.

I'M GOING TO DO WHAT I WANT, WHEN I WANT AND WHERE I WANT. MOST REGULATIONS HAPPEN BECAUSE OF THAT 1 PERSON.

UNDERSTAND THAT. SO YEAH, BUT AND MANY YEARS AGO, LIKE BACK IN 2009 WHEN WE ADOPTED THE RESIDENTIAL TRUCKING OR SERVICE BUSINESS REGULATIONS. YOU REMEMBER THAT. AND AGAIN THAT STEMMED FROM FOR HISTORICALLY WE HAD MANY OPERATIONS.

HOLLINGSWORTH TRUCKING A LOT OF THEM THROUGHOUT THE COUNTY THAT HAD SUCCESSFULLY OPERATED IN A RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOOD WITH NO COMPLAINTS.

NO PROBLEMS. IT TOOK ONE GUY WHO WAS A PROBLEM TO HIS NEIGHBOR WHO COMPLAINED.

AND OF COURSE, WE GET A COMPLAINT. WE ADDRESS IT.

AND WHEN WE ADDRESS IT, THAT PERSON GOES, WELL, WHAT ABOUT A, B, C, D, AND E? THEN WHEN THEY HEAR FROM US, THEN IT'S EVERYBODY'S YELLING LIKE, YOU KNOW, WE'VE BEEN DOING THIS FOREVER.

WHY IS IT NOW A PROBLEM? SO OUR SOLUTION WAS, IS TO LOOK AT IT AND SAY IS THIS SOMETHING WE FEEL CAN BE ALLOWED? AND IF WE DO ALLOW IT, WHAT DOES THAT LOOK LIKE? AND THAT'S WHEN WE FOUND A WAY TO MAKE IT WORK FOR THE EXISTING BUSINESSES WHERE THEY HAD CERTAIN STANDARDS TO ADHERE TO.

SO IF YOU WERE IN OPERATION AS OF THIS DATE, YOU'D STILL GO TO THE BZA.

YOU'D HAVE SOME FLEXIBILITY IN THE STANDARDS.

WHEREAS IF YOU'RE A NEW BUSINESS NOW COMING IN, YOU HAVE A STRICTER STANDARD THAT WE WANT TO SEE BECAUSE WE DON'T WANT THEM TO GROW THAT BIG, BUT WE DON'T WANT TO NOT ALLOW THOSE THAT HAVE OPERATED TO HAVE TO DOWNSIZE.

IT WOULD. IT'S ALMOST LIKE GRANDFATHERING THEM TO A CERTAIN LEVEL.

SO HOW DO WE HOW DO WE. BUT GRANDFATHERING ISN'T GOING TO SOLVE THE.

NO, NO. THE PROBLEM THAT WE'RE REALLY LOOKING TO GET RID OF.

BUT I MEAN, I THINK AS LONG AS WE PUT THE THE CERTAIN CRITERIA AND STUFF LIKE THAT.

I MEAN, LIKE THERE'S SOME THAT'S I MEAN, I KNOW ONE RIGHT NOW, IT'S GOT 2 CAMPERS ON IT.

IT'S PROBABLY GOT 6 PEOPLE LIVING IN THE CAMPER AND IT'S JUST LIKE 24, SEVEN, THREE, 65.

WE HAVE ONE UP NORTH THAT'S ALMOST A MINI CAMPGROUND AND.

OH YEAH. YEAH. THEY'VE SECLUDED IT WITH FENCING, BUT YEAH, THEY'RE HAULING ALL KINDS OF THINGS IN THERE.

BURNING ALL KINDS OF THINGS. YEAH. SO HOW DO YOU.

SO HOW DO WE. NOT GRANDFATHER. SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

BUT THEN YOU'VE GOT THE FAMILY THAT'S COMING IN AND YOU KNOW, THEY'RE GOING TO BE HERE FOR A MONTH OR YOU HAVE A FIRE.

THERE'S STIPULATIONS THAT WE BASICALLY WANT TO OPEN UP AND SAY, YEAH, WE CAN HELP.

THIS IS THIS IS GOOD AND THIS IS OKAY. AND THAT'S THE DIRECTION WE'RE LOOKING AT BRINGING TO YOU IS SOMETHING.

IF YOU SAY YOU GOT SOMETHING UP NORTH INSTEAD OF.

WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE? 3 OR 4 HOUSES ALL FENCED IN AND THEY'RE BRINGING STUFF IN AND THEY'RE BURNING STUFF IN THERE.

I MEAN, IT'S A HOUSE. WHERE ARE YOU GOING TO SAY, THAT'S ALRIGHT, IT'S GOOD.

OR WOULD YOU ADDRESS.22222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222 YOU WOULD ADDRESS THE ILLEGAL ACTIVITY REGARDLESS OF WHAT'S ON THE PROPERTY.

IN THIS CASE, THE ACTUAL PROPERTY IS ILLEGAL.

I MEAN, WHAT'S HAPPENING? IT'S NOT JUST THE BURNING OR WHATEVER, IT'S ALSO WHAT'S ON.

IT IS NOT SUPPOSED TO BE THERE. THE SANITATION FACILITIES, ALL THE THINGS.

YEAH, THE SANITATION FACILITIES. YOU MEAN THE PORTA-POTTIES? OH, THAT. AND I DON'T KNOW WHEN THE LAST TIME YOU SAW A TRUCK GO IN THERE AND DUMP IT.

OR THEY LEAVE TOO SOON. WELL, I PERSONALLY HAVE SEEN THAT SOME OF THESE RVS HAVE THESE TANKS

[01:15:06]

YEAH. WHEN THEY DUMP THEIR DUMP IN THIS GREAT BIG THING AND THEY DUMPING IT INTO THE THE SAME SEWER SYSTEM.

SAME THING. I'M DUMPING THE RV IN. YEAH. AND I KNOW THAT THAT AND THAT'S COMING FROM A PORTABLE PLACE WHERE A LITTLE SMALL PLACE THAT HE'S LIVING IN. YEAH. AND THAT'S HOW HE'S DUMPING HIS SEWAGE.

HE'S ACTUALLY PUTTING IT ON THE BACK OF HIS PICKUP TRUCK, AND HE'S BRINGING IT TO THE DUMP AND DUMPING IT IN THERE.

AND I'M LIKE SITTING THERE LOOKING AT HIM LIKE WOW THAT'S GOT TO BE.

THAT'S PRETTY EXTREME. BUT I MEAN, HE'S DOING.

BUT HE'S DOING THE RIGHT THING. YEAH. HE'S NOT DUMPING IT IN THE CREEK. HE'S NOT DUMPING IT. YEAH BUT THERE ARE SOME THAT ARE DUMPING IT, RIGHT? AT LEAST HE'S NICE ENOUGH TO DO IT. ARE THERE ANY CAMPGROUNDS IN THE COUNTY? THERE'S ONLY OUTSIDE OF THE STATE PARKS. THERE'S HOLIDAY PARK, DRAPER'S MILL.

DO THEY HAVE YEAR ROUND CAMPING? THEY HAVE. AND THEY'RE PERMITTED FOR THAT.

FEW SITES THAT ARE USING SOME OF THOSE WITH. THEY ARE. THEY'RE WORKING WITH THAT. BUT THEY HAVE SOME PEOPLE I'M NOT SURE EXACTLY HOW THEY'RE DOING THE CAMPGROUNDS THAT THAT ARE NOT YEAR ROUND, AND THEY HAVE PERMANENT SITES SET UP, BUT YOU CAN ONLY LIVE THERE FOR.

YEAH. AND SO MANY MONTHS OUT OF THE YEAR THEY HAVE I HAVE A, I HAVE A CLIENT OF MINE WHO SHE WORKS.

SHE'S ACTUALLY YOU KNOW, THEY HAVE THE BATTERED WOMAN.

SO SOME OF THEM WERE IN THE OVERFLOW FROM BENEDICTINE, HAVE BEEN GOING TO HOLIDAY PARTY.

OF COURSE, YOU KNOW, WE CAN'T GIVE OUT THEIR ADDRESSES, YOU KNOW, THAT KIND OF STUFF.

BUT THAT WAS THERE SOMEWHERE IN THESE OTHER COUNTIES THAT THE CAMPGROUND ITSELF.

YOU CAN'T BE EVEN THOUGH THE WEATHER'S NICE, THEY CAN'T BE YEAR ROUND.

THEY'RE ONLY PERMITTED TO BE SEASONAL. AND IF YOU GO TOO FAR, THEN YOU'RE OUTSIDE.

YEAH. EVEN THOUGH THE WEATHER'S NICE. AND I DON'T KNOW WHAT IT WOULD TAKE THE DESIGNATED CAMPGROUND BECAUSE THERE'S A LOT OF CAMPGROUNDS THAT DON'T HAVE FACILITIES. THEY MAY HAVE WATER, A LOT OF CAMPGROUNDS DON'T HAVE SEWER.

WELL, YOU KNOW WHAT? WELL, WE GET TO OUR ZONING CODE REWRITE.

WE CAN LOOK AT THOSE REALLY OUTDATED CAMPGROUND REGULATIONS WE HAVE, BECAUSE I WOULD DOUBT WE'VE LOOKED AT THEM SINCE THEY WERE ADOPTED, BECAUSE WE'VE NEVER HAD ANYBODY COME IN AND APPLY FOR A CAMPGROUND.

WE'VE NEVER REALLY HAD ANY REASON TO REEVALUATE THOSE.

I DON'T KNOW. I DON'T KNOW WHAT ELSE IS OTHER THAN FINISHING UP THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, WHAT ELSE WE GOT COMING UP? SO SO THAT'S THE NEXT TEXT AMENDMENT WITH THE PROPOSAL WILL BRING TO YOU WITH SOME IDEAS FOR YOU TO DISCUSS. IT'LL BE HEAVY. I MEAN IT'S GOING TO BE HEAVY.

THE DEPARTMENT BECAUSE YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT PEOPLE WHO ARE DESPERATE.

YEAH. YEAH. AND HOW, HOW MUCH, HOW, HOW MUCH CAN WE ACCOMMODATE THEM TO THE EXTENT THAT THEY'RE SAFE.

LIKE IF WE CAN'T MAKE SURE THEY'RE SAFE, ARE THEY GOING TO BE SAFE? BECAUSE THAT'S THE OTHER THING YOU HAVE TO THINK OF IS IF YOU JUST SAY, DO IT AND GOOD LUCK. ARE YOU PUTTING SOMEBODY IN DANGER.

BECAUSE WE'RE NOT WATCHING THEM. SO THAT'S THE BACK END.

YOU GOT TO THINK YOU GET EXTENSION CORDS THAT ARE RUN POWERING THE AIR CONDITIONER OR WHATEVER.

AND SO THERE'S THERE'S LOTS OF THINGS THAT. WELL, EVEN, YOU KNOW, THE BUCKET IN THE CORNER, THAT'S CHOLERA. THAT'S A CHOLERA OUTBREAK.

YOU KNOW, AND THAT'LL KILL AN OLD PERSON OR A KID.

SO BUT YOU ALSO HAVE TO THINK ABOUT, YOU KNOW, WE'RE TRYING TO HELP PEOPLE IN DESPERATE TIMES.

SO. YEAH, BUT YOU'LL HAVE A LOT TO WORRY ABOUT.

BUT, LIKE, YOU LIMIT SO MANY PER PARCEL OR I DON'T KNOW.

YEAH. I MEAN, THERE'S THERE'S DEFINITELY IDEAS THAT, YOU KNOW, WE PUT OUR HEADS TOGETHER.

GOT TO BE A WAY TO DO IT. IT'S GOT TO BE A WAY TO DO IT.

SO YOU DON'T CREATE. YOU CAN'T BE RICH OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT.

I MEAN, IT'LL BE CLEAN AND NEAT. I MEAN, PUT YOUR TRASH IN A TRASH CAN.

THAT'S ALL. WELL, DON'T THROW IT OUTSIDE. THE DEPARTMENT IS WORKING ON SOME OTHER CODE CHANGES THAT WILL NOT HAVE TO COME TO YOU FOR THE CONSTRUCTION TRADES BOARDS, WORKING ON ELECTRICIAN REGISTRATION, ALL THE TRADES, ELECTRICIAN, PLUMBER AND HVAC REGISTRATION, AS WELL AS ELECTRIC, PLUMBING AND HVAC PERMITS AND THE ADOPTION OF THE MECHANICAL CODE

[01:20:03]

NOT EVERYTHING YOU KNOW, SERVICE REPAIR WORK.

NO, BUT NEW, NEW DWELLINGS WITH NEW INSTALLATIONS CHANGE OUTS OF UNITS MINI SPLITS WERE DISCUSSED IN TERMS OF IF THEY'RE USED AS SUPPLEMENTAL HEAT, NOT AN ISSUE.

BUT IF YOU'RE TAKING A PLACE THAT HAS NO CENTRAL SYSTEM AT ALL AND YOU'RE PUTTING IN A SYSTEM, THAT INSPECTIONS WILL BE REQUIRED. SO AND I THINK THE OTHER THING WAS IF YOU'RE REPLACING MORE THAN 50% OF YOUR DUCTWORK, THEN YOU'D NEED AN INSPECTION. SO THEY'RE LOOKING AT WORKING ON THAT.

OKAY. AND THEN BUDGET SEASON STARTS WITH THE NEW YEAR FIRST OF THE YEAR.

SHOULD THE BUDGET IN AN INSPECTOR. IT IS. AND IF WE CAN GET OUR IT IS ALREADY COUNTY COMMISSIONER OR OTHER MEMBER TO SHOW UP IN A MEETING WITH BEAT UP ON HIM FOR WHAT YOU NEED.

I WAS HOPING HE'D BE HERE TONIGHT. HE'S AT MACO.

MACO IS THIS WEEK. YEAH. YEAH. I HAVE A FEW THINGS TO SAY WHEN IT COMES DOWN TO THAT PORTION OF THE MEETING.

I THINK WE'RE THERE. ALL PUBLIC ARE NOT PUBLIC, BUT AN OPEN DISCUSSION.

ANYBODY WANT TO SAY ANYTHING BEFORE WE GO? YEAH.

YES, SIR. I WANT TO REFERENCE SOMETHING THAT I SAW IN THE PAPER, AND I BASICALLY WANT TO MAKE SURE IT CAME OUT IN THE STAR DEMOCRAT ON DECEMBER THE 3RD. AND THIS TALKED ABOUT THE THE, THE JAIL THE JAIL SITUATION AND WHERE WE WERE GOING TO DO A COLLABORATION AT ONE TIME WITH QUEEN ANNE'S COUNTY AND KENT COUNTY, AND IT SEEMS AS THOUGH WE PULLED OUT OF THAT.

BUT THERE WERE SOME THINGS THAT I GUESS TRAVIS SAID IN THE PAPER WHERE THERE ARE ALTERNATIVES BECAUSE DUE TO THE FACT THAT WE'RE WE'RE IN THE JAIL, AND EVEN THE WARDEN IS WARDEN HAS MADE A STATEMENT ABOUT WE'RE NOT ABLE TO BE ABLE FOOD TO FACILITATE WHAT WE SHOULD BE FACILITATING IN THE JAILS WITH MENTAL HEALTH, ADDICTION, ALL ALL PROGRAMS. WE CAN'T DO IT IN THERE BECAUSE THE JAIL IS JUST NOT EQUIPPED FOR THAT KIND OF OPERATION.

WHEN I GO TO THE JAIL, I GO TO THE JAIL EVERY WEEK AND I'M IN A BOOTH THAT IS AS BIG AS AN OLD PHONE BOOTH WITH A TELEPHONE, AND HE KNOWS EXACTLY WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT. WITH A TELEPHONE SYSTEM IN THERE, THAT HAS TO BE AT LEAST 50 YEARS OLD, YOU KNOW, AND I CAN BARELY HEAR THE GUY, AND I'M TRYING TO HELP HIM, YOU KNOW? AND YOU KNOW, I HAVE TO CHECK ON HIS MEDICATIONS.

I HAVE TO CHECK ON WHAT HE'S DOING. YOU KNOW, HE'S GETTING HIS MENTAL MEDS AND ALL OF THIS, AND HE CAN'T HEAR ME, AND YOU KNOW, IT IS IT IS VERY, EXTREMELY DIFFICULT TO DEAL WITH THAT.

BUT THEY. AND THE WARDEN, HE'S BEHIND THAT 100% THAT YOU KNOW THEY'RE PUSHING FOR MAYBE ON THE TOPIC OF RENOVATIONS. THE RENOVATIONS.WELL, THIS IS WHAT A STATEMENT THEN. THIS IS WHAT I WANTED SOMEBODY IN HERE TO KIND OF SEE IF THIS IS COMING DOWN THE PIKE.

I'M NOT SURE, BUT THEY WERE TALKING ABOUT THE CONVERSATIONS.

THESE ARE THE COMMISSIONERS NOW, THE CONVERSATIONS WERE WERE LOCKERMAN MIDDLE SCHOOL TO DO A RENOVATION.

I DON'T KNOW IF YOU'VE HEARD SOME OF THAT. THAT LITTLE CHATTER COMING DOWN THE PIKE.

I'VE HEARD THAT. WE'VE ALSO HEARD AND AND ALSO A NEW DETENTION CENTER.

THE ONE HE WAS MENTIONING SOMETHING ABOUT THERE.

THERE WAS SOME LAND ON THE OTHER SIDE OVER HERE.

WHERE? THE SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT. OH, YEAH. WHERE WE OWN THAT PROPERTY ALREADY.

AND ALSO IT MENTIONED THAT THEY WERE PUTTING TOGETHER A DETENTION CENTER DESIGN COMMITTEE TO SEE IF THEY CAN COME UP WITH ANYTHING. SO THIS WAS THE FIRST I'VE HEARD OF THIS, AND JUST WANTING TO SEE IF THAT WAS COMING DOWN THE PIKE, SOME OF THE THINGS THAT THEY'RE SAYING HERE IN THE NEWSPAPER YOU KNOW, WHERE WE STAND ON THAT, THAT, THAT, THAT, THAT PROJECT, IF IT, IF IT DOES APPEAR THIS BE I'M TRYING TO FIGURE OUT, YOU KNOW IS THIS SOMETHING THAT'S DOABLE OR SOMETHING WE MIGHT SEE?

[01:25:03]

OKAY? I HAVE HEARD THINGS ABOUT THE SCHOOL. OKAY.

BECAUSE OF BOARD OF ED HAS REACHED OUT TO US, AND THEY WERE GOING TO DO SOMETHING ELSE WITH THAT SCHOOL SITUATION.

BUT YEAH, I HEARD ABOUT THEY WERE ALSO, I GUESS, APPROACHED ABOUT DOING SOME REDISTRICTING.

RIGHT. SO THE BOARD OF ED HAD APPROACHED US TO, TO KIND OF DO SOME MAPPING FOR THEM.

THEY DON'T WANT TO REDISTRICT. THAT'S THE GENERAL CONSENSUS.

THEY'RE JUST TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHAT THE BEST STEPS FORWARD ARE FOR LOCKERMAN.

AND I'VE HEARD MORE ABOUT NEW MIDDLE SCHOOL THAN I HAVE HEARD ABOUT RENOVATION.

NOW ONE OF THE PLACES THAT THEY WERE LOOKING TO, IF THEY WERE GOING TO BUILD WAS GOING TO BE BACK BEHIND THE SHERIFF'S OFFICE.

THE SHERIFF'S OFFICE. BUT THE PLANS FOR OUT THERE WAS SUPPOSED TO BE FOR.

WELL, THEY'VE CHANGED THEIR MIND NUMEROUS TIMES, BUT THEY'RE BACK THERE BUILDING THE ROAD NOW. THAT'S ONLY BECAUSE WE GOT SOME FUNDING TO DO THAT. BUT THE GENERAL CONSENSUS WAS TO HAVE THAT AS A AN EXPANSION TO THE INDUSTRIAL PARK.

OKAY. BUT THAT JUST HASN'T HAPPENED. AND THAT'S MAINLY BECAUSE WE DON'T PARTICULARLY WANT TO GIVE UP WHAT WE WANT TO PUT OUT THERE. BASICALLY, YOU HAVE TO WE COULDN'T DO A SUBDIVISION BECAUSE IN ORDER TO DO A SUBDIVISION, YOU HAVE TO ESTABLISH THOSE RESERVE AREAS. THE PROBLEM IS FOR USES OTHER THAN A RESIDENTIAL USE, YOU HAVE TO KNOW EXACTLY WHAT YOU WANT TO DO IN ORDER TO ESTABLISH THE CORRECT FLOW RATES.

SO WE COULDN'T APPROVE A SUBDIVISION WITHOUT KNOWING EXACTLY WHAT WE WANT TO DO OUT THERE, UNLESS IT WAS FOR RESIDENTIAL USE, WHICH THAT'S NOT WHAT WE'RE GOING TO DO. OKAY, SO BUT THE PLAN WAS TO SUBDIVIDE THAT ANNEXED INTO THE TOWN BECAUSE WE BUILT WE'RE BUILDING THAT ROAD TO TOWN SPECS OKAY. FOR THE ANNEXATION.

NOW IF IT GETS ANNEXED OR NOT, I'M NOT EXACTLY SURE, BUT THAT'S THE ONLY THING THAT I'VE HEARD SO FAR ABOUT.

WHAT TOPICS WOULD IT BE POSSIBLE THAT IF IF THAT WAS ALL, ALL THE PIECES OF THE PUZZLE PUT TOGETHER.

WOULD IT BE POSSIBLE TO PUT A JAIL THERE? I'M NOT SURE HOW BIG THEY WOULD NEED.

OKAY. BECAUSE THAT THAT. THAT'S WHY I SAID DESIGN COMMITTEE WOULD COME UP WITH.

YEAH. TO ME THEY MESSED UP. OH, WELL, YOU KNOW THAT, I KNOW THAT.

OKAY. THEY SHOULD HAVE NEVER BUILT THAT SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT. THEY SHOULD HAVE BUILT A COMPLEX, A PUBLIC SAFETY COMPLEX THAT INCLUDED JAIL AND THE SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT BECAUSE IT TOOK UP A BIG PLACE OUT THERE.

OR WENT OUT AND BOUGHT A FARM. EXACTLY. I AGREE, I AGREE 100%.

GAVE THEM YEARS OF EXPANSION AND RENOVATION AND RENOVATION.

AND SOMETIMES WHEN WE GET TO THE POINT WHERE WE'RE DESIGNING JAILS ESPECIALLY WHEN WE HAVE TO LOOK AT OUR INMATE POPULATION, OUR INMATE POPULATION IS PROBABLY 90% OF ADDICTS.

THAT'S WHAT I SEE. AND I THINK YOU PROBABLY CAN VOUCH FOR ME ON THAT.

AND SO AND DOING THAT ALSO ADDICTS BASICALLY A LOT OF TIMES THEY DO THEY DO IT'S MOSTLY A LOT OF TIMES IT'S MENTAL HEALTH.

AND SO, YOU KNOW, OUR CONCEPT OF WHAT WE DO IS WE'RE TREATING MENTAL HEALTH AND ADDICTION AT THE SAME TIME.

BUT WHEN YOU DO THAT, YOU HAVE TO BE HAVE SETTINGS AND STUFF AND CONFERENCE ROOMS AND ROOMS AND STUFF THAT JAIL THE JAILS THAT EXIST TODAY, ESPECIALLY SINCE THIS THING HERE IN TOWN IS JUST RIDICULOUS AS FAR AS YOU KNOW, TRYING TO ACCOMMODATE ANYTHING CLOSE TO THAT.

YEAH. THE REQUIREMENTS THAT THEY YEAH, THEY NEED FOR SEPARATION BETWEEN INMATES AND ALL.

IT'S IT'S HARD TO AND I HAD SAT IN ON A COMMISSIONERS MEETING WHERE THEY WERE DISCUSSING THE JAIL.

AND IT'S JUST KIND OF LIKE FROM A, FROM A DESIGN PERSPECTIVE.

IT'S ALMOST LIKE THEY WERE JUST KIND OF THROWING A DART AT THE BOARD.

RIGHT. JUST TRYING TO FIGURE OUT, YOU KNOW, HOW THAT WOULD LOOK FOR 3 JURISDICTIONS AND WHAT THAT SIZE AND SCALE WOULD BE. IT WAS KIND OF INSANE TO EVEN FIGURE OUT FOR THEM AT THAT POINT.

I MEAN, YOU HAVE JAILS LIKE WHERE I WORKED AT BEFORE WITH THE OVER IF ANYBODY PEOPLE TRAVELED SOUTH, TRAVELED FOR THE BRIDGE AND DC, AND YOU GET INTO ALEXANDRIA, YOU SEE THIS TALL SKYSCRAPER.

AND YOU KNOW, AND THAT'S THE JAM RIGHT THERE ON I-95.

YEAH, I WORKED THERE, I WORKED THERE, AND THE ONLY COMMUNITY ROOM TO MEET WITH, WITH ANYBODY WAS ON THE TOP FLOOR.

OH. THAT'S IT. YOU HAD TO GET THAT ELEVATOR AND GO ALL THE WAY UP.

[01:30:01]

SO, YOU KNOW, SO, I MEAN, I'M IN THERE WORKING.

I'M WORKING ON THE NINTH FLOOR AND JUST, YOU KNOW, AND EVERYTHING ELSE IN JAIL.

EVERYTHING ELSE IS. AND AND NOT EVEN POD CELLS.

IT JUST KIND OF IT'S A WEIRD DESIGN INSIDE IT, BUT IT'S A SHAME.

BUT, YOU KNOW, EVERYTHING HAS PRIORITY. ARE WE GOING TO? WHAT I'M SAYING IS, WHEN THEY MAKE A STATEMENT IN THE NEWSPAPER, THEY GET A LOT OF PEOPLE EYEBROWS ON WHAT KIND OF PRIORITY.

ARE WE GOING TO PUT THE ELECTRIC CHAIR IN THERE? YOU KNOW, YOU KNOW WHAT I'M SAYING? YEAH, I GET THAT. AND IT'S ALWAYS BOARD OF ED IS GOING TO BE A PLAN WHERE WE'RE LOOKING AT 20 YEARS FROM NOW, I THINK WE'RE I THINK WE NEED TO START TAKING A LITTLE MORE.

YOU KNOW, I THINK THE APPROACH SHOULD BE A LITTLE BIT MORE.

WELL, IN REALITY, THIS IS SOMETHING. THIS IS SOMETHING WE NEED TO DO, ROGER.

YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN? AND IT'S NOT A IT'S SOMETHING WE NEED TO DO.

WE NEED TO DO IT. BUT HERE'S THE QUESTION WE NEED TO DO.

WE HAVE 33, 33,000 PEOPLE IN THE COUNTY. HOW HIGH YOU WANT YOUR TAXES TO GO.

BECAUSE IF YOU WANT TO BUILD A MODERN DAY JAIL, YOU GETTING READY TO DUMP A BOATLOAD OF MONEY.

OH, WELL. AND WHO'S GOING TO PAY FOR IT? THE CITIZENS ARE GOING TO PAY FOR THE JAIL AND BUILD A NEW LOCKER.

WELL, I MEAN, THESE ARE THE ALTERNATIVES THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT.

WELL, I MEAN, WE NORMALLY. WELL, THEY WERE GOING TO BUILD A THEY WERE GOING TO BUILD A, A COMBINATION.

THE REGIONAL THING WAS GOING TO BE 300 SOMETHING BEDS RIGHT NOW.

DENTON HERE CAN HOUSE AT LEAST 80 PEOPLE. YEAH, 80, 80, 80 AND 90 PEOPLE.

SO WE WOULD HAVE TO. BUT THAT'S BASICALLY AND REALLY RIGHT NOW I THINK WE ONLY GOT 45 IN THERE FOR I THINK I COUNTED FOR ABOUT 45 PEOPLE IN THERE.

AND SO WE'RE LOOKING IN THE FACILITIES, VICINITY OF HOUSING, ABOUT ABOUT 80 TO 100 PEOPLE.

THAT'S ABOUT HOW WE WOULD CONSIDER PROBABLY SUFFICIENT FOR THIS COMMUNITY.

I KNOW IT'S A PRIORITY. I THINK I'M ON THE FUNDING COMMITTEE TO LOOK FOR FUNDING, AND AND WE START IN JANUARY, AND I JUST VOLUNTEERED YOU FOR THE DESIGN COMMITTEE.

WELL. THANK YOU. YOU'RE WELCOME. I WANT TO BE UP, BUT I WANT TO BE ON.

BUT I WANT BUT I BUT I WANT TO BE ON.

I WORK I WORK IN THERE, I WANT, I WANT, I WANT, I WANT TO SEE THAT THE WHOEVER THE DESIGN IS, I MEAN, MATT MIGHT DESIGN IT. WHO KNOWS? YOU KNOW, HE SAID, HE PROBABLY SAID, I DON'T KNOW.

WELL, THE INPUT, BUT THE INPUT, THE INPUT YOU CAN PROVIDE BASED ON THE SERVICES.

YEAH. THAT'S THE THE SERVICE INPUT. EXACTLY. YEAH.

YOU GOTTA HAVE A LITTLE BIT OF HEAT TO IT. THANK YOU. RIGHT. THANK YOU. IT WAS ENOUGH TROUBLE DOING THE SHERIFF'S OFFICE.

BIT OF HEAT. AND THAT'S IT. THAT'S ALL YOU NEED? NO TVS, NO. NO DQ. COME ON. I GOTTA GIVE HIM THE BIG SCREEN.

THEY LIKE THE. WHEN I WENT OVER THERE ONE DAY AND THEY SAID, LOOK I SAID I GOT SEVERAL GUYS ALREADY FOR COUNCIL.

HE SAID, OH, ROGER, YOU KNOW, THE NBA FINALS ARE GOING ON TONIGHT.

THEY WHO? HE SAID YEAH. AND I WON'T BE HOME FOR HIM.

SO HE SAID, I SAID IS THAT WHAT THEY'RE WATCHING.

HE SAID OH YEAH THEY, THEY DON'T, THEY DON'T WANT TO COME DOWN TONIGHT.

THE NBA FINALS. SO THIS IS. YEAH. YEAH. THIS IS, THIS IS I KNOW THIS IS THAT'S WHAT I SAID ON MY WAY HOME.

IF I DROVE AFTER I DROVE 20 MILES UP HERE. THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT I SAID ON THE WAY HOME.

WASN'T THAT A JAIL? I JUST LEFT AND THEY SAID, MY WIFE SAID, ARE YOU HOME EARLY? I SAID, WELL, THEY'RE WATCHING THE NBA FINALS. [LAUGHTEWR] SHE SAYS.

IN JAIL, I SAID. YEAH. SO THEY MUST BE BIG SCREEN TV.

SOMEWHERE. SOMEWHERE DOWN IN ALABAMA OR SOMETHING.

THEY TOOK AWAY THE CABLE TV. THE ONLY THING THEY COULD GIVE WAS THE DISNEY CHANNEL.

LIKE CARTOONS AND SOMETHING. WELL, THERE'S SOMETHING SILLY LIKE THE ONES ACROSS THE BRIDGE.

THEY ISSUE A TABLET. SO THEY DO EVERYTHING FROM THE TABLET ON THERE.

THEY GOT THE COMMISSARY. EVERYTHING IS DONE. THEY ISSUED THEM TABLETS.

SO. AND THAT'S HOW THEY HANDLE ALL THEIR BUSINESS.

THEY WANT TO SEE THE ATTORNEY. EVERYTHING. ALL REQUESTS ARE DONE.

THEY GET THE TABLET. BUT THAT'S ROGER. HONESTLY.

AND I'M SORRY. SEE WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT, MAN? WE GOTTA DECIDE. YOU'RE IN JAIL. YOU SAID YOU WERE ON THE DESIGN COMMITTEE OR SOMETHING.

THE FUNDING OR THE

[01:35:03]

WHEN THEY MADE THE DECISION TO ADD ON TO THAT BUILDING THAT WAS WRONG.

YOU'RE FIRST OFF, IT'S PRIME REAL ESTATE. IT'S RIGHT ON THE WATERFRONT.

AND WHEN THEY STARTED, I DON'T KNOW IF Y'ALL WAS AROUND WHEN THEY STARTED.

I WAS I WAS IN. WHEN THEY STARTED WORKING ON IT.

IT WENT SO FAR BEHIND BECAUSE WHEN THEY GOT INTO ENGINEERING, THEY FOUND OUT THAT THE ORIGINAL PART WAS FALLING INTO THE RIVER.

SO THEY HAD TO SHORE ALL THAT UP. YEP. AND IT'S LIKE YOU'RE BUILDING ON A SWAMP.

WHY? WHY DIDN'T YOU GO OUT AND BUY 100 ACRE FLOODPLAIN AND BUILD A COMPLEX THAT WOULD GROW FOR THE NEXT 20, 30 YEARS? SO I DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH THEY SPENT OUT HERE, AND THEY OWN THAT PROPERTY BACK THERE.

WELL, THEY CLAIMED THAT WAS A 15 YEAR OLD DRAWING.

FOR WHAT? FOR THAT SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT THAT THE ARCHITECTS THAT DESIGNED THAT 15 YEARS EARLIER PRIOR TO IT BEING BUILT OUT.

OH THE DENTON ONE. YEAH. THE ONE RIGHT NOW. YEAH.

THE SAID THE ARCHITECT.

THAT WAS A DRAWING. THAT WAS A DRAWING. MAYBE THEY MODIFIED A LOT OF.

BUT THE ORIGINAL DRAWING. WOW. YEAH. THE ORIGINAL CONCEPT AND EVERYTHING WAS, WAS, WAS, WAS DRAWN 15 YEARS EARLIER.

THE THING IS, AND THEY KEPT PUSHING IT BACK. THEY OWNED THAT PROPERTY ALL BACK THERE.

WELL, I USED TO WORK WITH SHERIFF BONDS. HE'S THE ONE THAT PUSHED A LOT OF THAT.

YOU, YOU KNOW, SHOULD SHOULD HAVE BUILT A COMPLEX AGAIN.

AGAIN. BUILD A COMPLEX THAT INCLUDED A JAIL. EXACTLY.

AND THE ABILITY TO EXPAND. WELL, WHEN THEY GOT WHEN DOWN TO THE WIRE, IT WAS THAT'S THAT'S WHAT WAS PROPOSED.

AND THEY SAID, WELL, WE GOT FUNDS TO JUST BUILD.

THERE'S NO DOUBT THEY NEEDED TO MOVE OUT OF THE BASE. OH, THEY HAD TO THEY NEEDED TO MOVE OUT OVER THERE.

OH YEAH. BECAUSE AGAIN, THAT BUILDING IS IN BAD SHAPE. THEY HAD THEY HAD SEWAGE FROM THE TOILETS RUNNING DOWN INTO OFFICES.

IT'S IN BAD SHAPE. IT'S IN BAD SHAPE. IT STILL IS. SO BUT I WENT IN THERE.

I WENT IN THERE AND I WENT IN THE OLD PART. THAT'S WHERE I.

THAT'S WHERE THE VISITOR'S AREA.

SO I'M IN THERE SHIVERING. I'M IN THERE TRYING TO GET COUNSELING AND I'M SHIVERING, YOU KNOW, AND THE INMATE IS SHIVERING. HE DIDN'T EVEN GIVE HIM A COAT.

THAT IS BY DESIGN, BECAUSE ONCE YOU GET OUT, YOU DON'T WANT TO COME BACK.

IT'S COLD.

YEAH. SO, I MEAN, ALL JOKES ASIDE, THAT'S JUST ALL I WANTED TO TALK ASK ABOUT WAS IF IF THAT WAS SOME THINGS THAT'S COMING DOWN THE PIKE AND AND WITH THE, WITH THIS ARTICLE AND WHAT HE MENTIONED ABOUT THAT COMMITTEE, I, I DEFINITELY, I DEFINITELY WANT TO WORK WITH THAT COMMITTEE HOPEFULLY.

I'M NOT SURE HOW LONG WE'LL GET THE WORD OUT.

YEAH. MAYBE I'LL MAKE SOME PHONE CALLS OVER THERE TO CROSS THE BRIDGE AND SAY YOU KNOW, WE NEED SOME FUNDING OVER HERE IN FARM COUNTRY.

LOOK, WE GIVE YOU SOLAR. YEAH, GIVE US A LITTLE MONEY.

[LAUGHTER] MATTER OF FACT, I LIKE THAT. I LIKE THAT WHERE THAT YOUNG LADY SAID EARLIER.

OH, WE MADE A DONATION. WELL, SOLAR PANELS COULD MAKE A DONATION TO OUR JAIL.

THERE YOU GO. WHAT WAS THE DONATION TO? SHE MENTIONED SHE THOUGHT SOME $10,000.

NO, I TRIED TO MAKE A DONATION. YEAH, THEY'RE GOING TO MAKE.

THEY'VE MADE A DONATION TO SOME ORGANIZATION.

SOME OTHER ORGANIZATION, BUT THEY'RE GOING TO MAKE A $10,000 DONATION TO SOME PLACE IN CAROLINE COUNTY.

SOME LOCAL. I HEARD SOME LADIES WITH LADIES. SOMETHING ON IT, DIDN'T IT? I THOUGHT IT WAS PARENTS OR SOMETHING. YEAH. SOMETHING.

I REALLY HEARD SOMETHING. THAT'S NOT CAROLINE. YEAH, RIGHT. YEAH.

I WAS LIKE, WHAT WAS THAT? YOU KNOW. YEAH. BUT MY THING IS TOO, IS SOLAR PANELS.

I BELIEVE THAT, YOU KNOW. COME ON. LET'S WE HAVE WE HAVE A WE HAVE A JAIL FUND.

YOU WANT TO BUILD SOME SOLAR PANELS? WE COULD PUT SOLAR PANELS ON THE TOP, ON TOP OF THE JAIL.

THERE YOU GO. I THINK WE MAKE THE INMATE, MAKE THE INMATES CLEAN, BUILD THE SOLAR PANELS.

SOLAR PANELS? YEAH. GIVE HIM SOMETHING TO DO.

INSTEAD OF WATCHING NBA COMMISSION, THEY CAN BREAK UP THE CONCRETE BLOCKS.

WATCHING BASKETBALL, THE HAMMER. WHEN THEY'RE DONE.

WHEN THEY'RE DONE. WELL, THAT'S IF THEY GET IN 20 YEARS.

BUT UNFORTUNATELY, THE COUNTY DON'T GET THAT KIND OF TIME.

I THINK WE NEED TO MAKE A MOTION TO ADJOURN. SO IS ANYBODY GOT ANYTHING ELSE FOR OPEN DISCUSSION? HEARING NONE. I'LL MAKE A MOTION THAT WE ADJOURN I SECOND.

[Adjournment]

AYE. ALL OPPOSED? GOODBYE.

* This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.